we're so solidly red in south carolina. last time that a democrat won this state in a presidential race was in 1976. so i don't think that obama has much of a chance in south carolina at all. just talking this morning about the most recent poll numbers we've seen on obama where, in south carolina, you have 40% of republicans who don't think he was born in the country and another 30% who think he's a muslim. so, yeah, democrats have a hard time in south carolina at the state level and at the national level, too. >> a hard sell in south carolina, that's for sure. >> yes. >> adam, but, boy, do we love florida. it is always exciting during an election year. a what are you picking up there in terms of the trends, democratic or republican? >> well, there's a myth that obama won florida last time with this great turnout from democratic voters and really turning out the base. he won florida because of the independent vote where he beat mccain significantly. he showered the state in ads talking about middle class tax cuts. so he's g

just last week, gingrich and santorum were in south carolina. they're nowhere near the top of the polls. have voters decided on their candidates there? why would santorum and gingrich spend so much time in south carolina? >> reporter: well, fredricka, even though the cnn poll has newt gingrich and rick santorum in the single digits in the poll, they believe they have a shot in this race. the two candidates are counting on the fact the same poll, over 50% of the voters still have not made a decision on who they'll -- who they'll vote for. while cain was campaigning elsewhere, gingrich and santorum were trying to solidify support here among tea party activists. thanks to strong debate performances, gingrich has a following. in october he raised $8,000, more than the previous three months combined. that's helping him step up operations in south carolina and elsewhere. >> okay. meantime, you know, is this rather strong tea party state willing to back a career politician though he's seeing that he's getting more support there? i'm talking about newt

certainly no coincidence that he is there in south carolina. i want to bring gloria borger back into this conversation. he talks about social security, balancing the budget by 2020. let's still drill down on the spending side. when it comes to reform, what specifics is he talking about? >> it sounds familiar. it sounds like chairman paul ry. on social security, he generally talks about gradually raising the retirement age. about private accounts for younger wokkers, about allowing state and local governments to opt out. he doesn't tell us specifically how. on medicare, gradually raising the eligibility age. perhaps making the wealthy pay more. maybe turning it partly into a voucher system. again, like paul ryan, very few specifics there. just generalizations, but i think what he's trying to show is that he's serious. he's also trying to show he's really different from the other candidates out there. in particular now, herman cain, as you saw him take aim at his tax plan. >> somebody said, hey, how would you compare this to gingrich's plan or ca

black students in the state of south carolina. >> why black students? >> many of them, again, just like the 25% of african-americans in this country do not have state-issued photo identification. >> they don't have driver licenses. >> many people do not have driver's licenses. >> in big city it's the same thing. nikki haley, i don't know what to make of her. she's brand new to politics. why would she be so wind swept and elitist in her conversation? most people don't get on airplanes. i think my parents were on an airplane maybe once in their life. i remember when my grandmother took a trip once, the whole family went off to see her off to st. louis. not everybody is so frisky as to jump up on airplanes all the time. what is she talking about? like everybody flies, therefore everybody should have a voter i.d. card. who is she now? >> well, she's out of touch with reality. you know, she just got back from a trade mission to paris where she sponsored, spent our money, $22,000 on champagne for a cocktail party while out there, stayed in $600 five-star hote

south carolina's photo identification law requires people to show a south carolina driver's license, state identification card, military i.d., or passport when they vote. without those forms of identification, the only other ways to vote are through a provisional ballot or absentee ballot. the "ap" analysis shows among the state's 2,134 precincts, there are 10 precincts where nearly all of the law's effect falls on nonwhite voters who don't have state-issued driver's license or i.d. cards. a total of 1,977 voters. the precinct that votes at the historically black benedict college campus center has 2,790 voters including only 9 white voters. in that precinct, 1,343 of the precinct's nonwhite voters, 48% lack state identification. the u.s. justice department is currently reviewing the south carolina's voter i.d. law, any election law changes made there have to be cleared by federal authorities under the voting rights act because of past voting rights abuses in that state. this year, 34 states introduced legislation to create or strengthen voter i.d. laws. of those, seven have been enac

south carolina pays attention to new hampshire. we say that south carolina and we think typical republican party in the south. however, it's very diverse. you have a lot of retirees in the coast and the lower part of the state from the midwest and the northeast and have a slightly more moderate flavor and emphasize economic and national defense issues over social issues. and in the up country, have you a party more likely to emphasize the social issues. and in the middle of the state, you have small-town conservatives and chamber of commerce type who is emphasize both. >> what do you get with an endorsement like a governor christie? >> two things. you get a brief moment of positive attention, where you get some advocates of that person and detractors. but you get a nice attention. it soaks up the day or the news cycle. the second thing you can get if they are willing to go on the campaign trail and do things for you because you quickly get into a place where you can't be everywhere that everybody wants you to be and having a strong

go win south carolina. and the same advice i would give m m michele. she doesn't have the resources. lots of things happen after that. >> i'm not completely disagreeing with ed, because lord knows you shouldn't disagree with ed. but i would modify it a little bit. would i say this. compete in those states, but have the long view. he has weather to storm. if it he can get this through the first couple states and get into the long run with romney and let the others fall off, look, the conservatives are looking to coalesce around the candidate. if he can get in a one-on-one battle with romney, i like perry's chances. >> he's got to win somewhere first, though, doesn't he? that reminds me of the rudy guiliani strategy. i'm going wait in florida for someone to come to me. >> it doesn't work like that. >> i think if romney wins iowa and new hampshire, it's over. if romney wins any two of the first three, it's over. so the fact of the matter is, i really think from a perry standpoint, you have to double down in iowa and south carolina. >> ed rowlands, does he

south carolina could be a problem for him. he's trying to establish himself in south carolina. he's going to need south carolina. let's assume he doesn't win in iowa. he does win in new hampshire, almost certainly he will in new hampshire. he practically lives there. he's from the neighboring state of massachusetts. got a home in new hampshire now, but south carolina will be very, very important, and i think that's one of the reasons he selected south carolina to give this first major national security speech of his campaign. >> talking about the politics there of the area. also if you're looking ahead to the war in afghanistan, the war in iraq, in particular afghanistan. here we are, wolf, it's been ten years since that war was launched. a number of these young men probably wondering, with the transition going on, am i going to be sent in country? could we hear mitt romney discuss about the transition? obama's views on the war in afghanistan, the number of tr p trootroop starting to pull out, et cetera and that these guys may be the one who go in? >> it's fair to assume some o

>> it will be in south carolina that mitt romney's faith will face its first electoral test. >> south carolina is particularly dangerous territory. i was here in 2008 that he was unceremoniously crushed. it is home to some of the darkest of in republican campaigning and home to an evangelical christian community that has little time for mormons.

>> i look back home, south carolina, early primary state and big names in south carolina politics from the tea party to the establishment are sort are rallying to mr. perry now that he offered real ideas. i think there's been a dirnlg of that, one of the reasons you've seen herman cain do so well, he's been one of the few to offer specific ideas. now that he matched that, you'll see that campaign pick up energy as well. >> what do you think of the prospect of rick perry not participating in the debate set in south carolina? you heard my guest just prior to you talking about that. good idea or bad idea? >> i think it's a bad idea to skip debates unless you simply can't do it. having been through campaigns myself and i know the presidential candidates are doing this 100-fold. you simply can't do all of them. i think there was a discussion yesterday might be as many as 18 in the next couple of weeks. that's simply too many. i am hopeful he'll come to south carolina in a couple of weeks and participate in iowa and new hampshire. if the state or washington or california wants to have a deba

first two of the season, boise state and south carolina. >> gary: south carolina still has a tie-breaker but -- >> verne: yep. >> gary: life. >> verne: third down. gillislee. fourth down. that's vinnie sunserri and his brother the starting quarterback for pittsburgh made the start last night and their dad is an assistant coach on the staff, sal sunserri and ironically sal sunserri was on the staff at louisiana state in 2000 and chose to depart and created the opening ultimately filled by will muschamp. connect the dots. let's update you now on the east. 2-1, florida, south carolina and georgia, vandy, 1-1, tennessee, 0-1. out of conference win today. >> gary: i like georgia. i really do. if i had to pick a team now consider brantley's injury if it's as serious as it appears i think georgia's in the driver's seattle. >> verne: driver's seat? do you ya? >> gary: well, they can crash. >> verne: 40 guys turning left. >> gary: well, after the first play of seven points and then the drop pass over to the outside that's been the end of it. >> verne: here's phillip sims takes a knee. 38-10. >> g

first two of the season, boise state and south carolina. >> gary: south carolina still has a tie-breaker but -- >> verne: yep. >> gary: life. >> verne: third down. gillislee. fourth down. that's vinnie sunserri and his brother the starting quarterback for pittsburgh made the start last night and their dad is an assistant coach on the staff, sal sunserri and ironically sal sunserri was on the staff at louisiana state in 2000 and chose to depart and created the opening ultimately filled by will muschamp. connect the dots. let's update you now on the east. 2-1, florida, south carolina and georgia, vandy, 1-1, tennessee, 0-1. out of conference win today. >> gary: i like georgia. i really do. if i had to pick a team now consider brantley's injury if it's as serious as it appears i think georgia's in the driver's seattle. >> verne: driver's seat? do you ya? >> gary: well, they can crash. >> verne: 40 guys turning left. >> gary: well, after the first play of seven points and then the drop pass over to the outside that's been the end of it. >> verne: here's phillip sims takes a knee. 38-10. >> g

there it is in south carolina, herman cain leads the republican field with 30 points. mitt romney is a close second at 26%. rick perry is way down at 9%. look, he has to win that one. similar story in florida where cain is neck and neck with romney, 32-31. the numbers that cain is posting are amazing. perry a distant third again. showing a pattern here. look at what happens in the general election matchups in florida. the president is leading romney by two points. that makes sense, 45-43 and the president leads herman gain by six points, 47-41. ahead of perry, 47-39, all seems to match up the conversation. we'll be right back. as shipping it, though. i mean shipping is a hassle. not with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. that is easy. best news i've heard all day! i'm soooo amped! i mean not amped. excited. well, sort of amped. really kind of in between. have you ever thought about decaf? do you think that would help? yeah. priority mail flat rate shipping starts at just $4.95, only f

first two of the season, boise state and south carolina. >> gary: south carolina still has a tie-breaker but -- >> verne: yep. >> gary: life. >> verne: third down. gillislee. fourth down. that's vinnie sunserri and his brother the starting quarterback for pittsburgh made the start

a state like south carolina is really concerned that candidates are going to bypass south carolina, or could bypass south carolina caroand go to states w they can get to more voters. south carolina is concerned about losing their voice, so to speak, and they -- like i said, they are going to be a thorn in florida's side, just like florida's been a thorn in their side and make sure that they don't get stomped on. >> shawna shepherd in south carolina. we'll continue to check in with you throughout this political season which seems to be starting earlier and earlier. >>> next hour, herman cain found new-found momentum. the big win in florida is making people take notice. more on that next hour. >>> well, at four minutes past the hour now we turn to afghanistan where another major blow has been delivered to terrorism. nato is saying that they have captured a senior haqqani network leader. he's been captured in a joint nato and afghan operation. this person is haji mali khan, a khani commander. caught in a province on tuesday. this haqqani network is affiliated with al qaeda. an important g

by the time you announced in south carolina, the recent poll shows you at 9%. what happened? >> i always said the polls will go up and down. my bet is that when clemson or south carolina are at halftime and it doesn't happen often, but they are behind and they are not going to call the game at halftime. we will continue to work and we may change defense a little bit. the fact is that this long time campaign is over with and we will talk about things like this. we got in this race late. we laid out over the last two weeks a plan on energy and job security from that standpoint and security of the energy and a tax plan about growth and controlling spending. americans will look at it and say that's where we want to go. he has the record of doing it in the state of texas and that's the kind of president we want. >> more question. >> in south carolina, what are y'all talking about? >> as a general rule we keep our conversations private, but we talk a lot about the campaign and talked about the first time he had the chance to see the tax plan. you will have to ask him how much he li

south carolina has passed a new voter i.d. law. 22,000 people have been added to the list of voters who could be turned around at the voting booth. msnbc contributor melissa harris perry joins us now. it's really nice to see you. >> thanks. >> let's get into this and refresh everybody's memory and bring them up to speed if they haven't heard of this. south carolina's photo identify kay says they must show a state-issues driver's license or identification card, a military i.d. or passport when they vote. why is this important to get down now? >> they're basically creating a policy to solve a problem that doesn't exist. there's this discourse from the right that voter fraud is a critical problem, that all these people are voting who should not be voting or they're double voting and it's non-existent. when you think about the problems we're really facing or in particular south carolina with its problems with the economy? the fact that they spent time to do this is clearly an impact about this upcoming election. >> certainly there

per vi having a news conference, 3:00 eastern in south carolina. our own jim accost osta will bee and perry will be peppered with questions about this controversy. >> hopefully he'll convince people it really is just fun to poke holes at the president. just teasing. paul steinhauser, thanks so much. >>> president obama on the road, rolling out new relief for homeowners whose mortgage value is greater than the value of their home. the president launched his rebound housing program during a three-day swing out west and while unveiling his plan to help homeowners refinance, the president called out congress for failing to move forward on his jobs plan. >> the only way that we can truly attack our economic challenges, the only way we can put hundreds of thousands of people back to work right now is with bold action from congress. that's why i'm going to keep forcing these senators to vote on common sense paid-for jobs proposals. >> cnn white house correspondent dan lothian is traveling with the president. he is live in los angeles for us this morning.

>> south carolina won't be important in the presidential election. in head it head match-ups with mitt romney, rick perry and herm yan cane, president obama leads. but particularly with that match against mitt romney, just at 45%. an incumbent president wants to be much closer to 50% than in the mid 40s. so he still has some work to do in a state like florida. so it is good news and bad news for the president there there. >> okay. to the general now. a couple months until we see votes in the primary. thank you, we have a better look in terms of what may happen. >>> let's get to the gop debate last night. it was fight night. might be good for rick perry and people who love ruckus tv. for the answer we turn to our strategist with a 50,000 foot look. msnbc political strategist karen finney. also, matt louis from the daily call in. hello to you both. karen, let's start with you. rick perry showed us the texas fight in him last night. he came out fighting. but the question is, we have been watching, karen, is it enough to reverse a slide. >> it is unclear

and the key to south carolina, unlike iowa, every person who's won south carolina since 1980 has gone on to win the republican nomination. >> and like ohio, which we were just talking about, another incredibly important state, florida. >> well, florida, look, you know, obviously important, very close in general elections. and you know, we're going to look at somebody like herman cain. herman cain leads in our latest nbc maris poll, but herman cain has very limited infrastructure, very limited campaign team, and not a lot of money. and the thing a lot of people might not know about florida is that it's a tv state. what do i mean by that? you have to have a lot of money to run a lot of ads in a lot of markets that are pretty expensive to advertise in. that's not something that herman cain has right now, and that's why people look at rick perry and mitt romney as the two people who really have the best chance, probably, in florida. and if this thing is a long delegate fight, well let's say perry wins iowa, he wins south carolina, and it shapes up to be mitt romney versus rick perry in fl

even though we view the south carolina, we say south carolina and we think typical republican party in the south. however it's a very diverse party. you have a lot of retirees along there that came from the northwest and east and have a more moderate favor and emphasize economic and national defense issues over social issues and then in the up-country you have a party that is more likely to emphasize the social issues. and in the middle of the state you have a mix of sort of small town conservative and chamber of commerce types that emphasize both. >> what do you get with an endorsement like from governor christie? >> you get two things. you get a brief moment of positive attention where you get some of the advocates of that person and some of their detractors but you get a nice little attention. it soaks up the day or the news cycle. the second thing you can get is if they are willing to go on the campaign trail and actually do things for you because you quickly get into a place where you can be everywhere that everybody wants you to be. and having a strong sr. got like christie or bo

another 10% of south carolina republicans are not sure which country the president was born in. that means, 46% of south carolina republicans are very interested in hearing things like this delivered to them by a highly credible cable news network. >> do you accept that what he produced is valid? >> i don't necessarily -- >> do you believe he was probably born in america. >> i say he might have been. >> what does your gut telle you, you are a smart guy. >> my gut tell me a lot of things. it took a long time to produce the certificate. and when it came out, you check out the internet and many people say it is not real. that it is a forgery. >> the internet is at lot of nonsense. >> they go over it and a lot of different things and reasons and the other thing is nobody has been able to see the day of his birth. they had twins born, nobody has been able to find any records that he was born in that hospital. >> do you think politically for rick perry -- >> i think it is a positive for him. >> is it a sensible thing for him to do. >> i think it is good for him in the republican prima

in south carolina, he's 11%. in every one of these states, he either comes in third, fourth or fifth. not where he wants to be. >> it isn't and i think rick perry has been his own best looking back strategist when he said i shouldn't have done those debates because in general, the way most republicans have seen rick perry has been in these debat debates. he seemed tired, as though he didn't know what he was talking about. he would garble things. he came in and boy, swept right to the top and every debate, his numbers just got lower. he's got time, they all have time, but not much. it's november. as far as we know, the first contest will be in the first week of january in iowa. >> no one forced him to pick the fight in the last debate with mitt romney over service, his lawn service that romney may have had an illegal worker there. that was rick perry who decided to get into a fight with mitt romney on that. >> absolutely, so he has been his own worst opponent at this point and i think he was -- he's perfectly righ

. >> a new nbc marist poll of the crucial states of south carolina and florida show that herman cain is now the front-runner in both of those states. in south carolina, he actually leads the field with 30% support among likely republican primary voters. romney pulls up second with 26%. with perry now running a distant third at 9%. in florida where most republican voters don't yet know that herman cain's 9-9-9 plan includes abolishing social security and medicare, cain is in a virtual tie with romney for the lead. cain at 32% and romney at 31%. while perry is once again far behind in third place at 8%. joining me now, national affairs editor for "new york" magazine, john heilman who was at the debate, msnbc contributor alex wagner, former adviser to the george w. bush and mccain campaigns, mark mckinnon also joins us. and former chief of staff to congresswoman michele bachmann ron kerry returns to the show. thank you all for joining me tonight. alex, could president obama have had a better debate night? >> you have to think that president obama was sitting just rubbing his hands toget

hooefs he's at the top of every poll, at the top of south carolina's poll. when you have people from the right on that stage attacking every single sentence of your plan, you have people from the left automatically attacking your plan and then you have places like the tax policy center, you know, nonpartisan, just looking at the numbers, hammering you, you have no choice but to if you want to be considered a credible candidate be able to answer all those questions specifically and not just say you haven't read the plan. and the idea that donald trump just said he's going to have to amend it, it's not finished. that's unacceptable. you cannot become elected president of the united states and present a plan that sweeping and that radical and only have it be a rough draft. >> quickly before we go, his supporters and he seem to -- cain -- seem to think that all he needs to do is not back down. that that's -- he doesn't need to command facts, he just needs to hold his ground and assert that he's right. >> at a certain point, though, it's all going to crumble beca

. >>> from south carolina tonight, there are troubling questions about justice. there's a new effort to right what many believe was a terrible wrong that dates back 67 years, when a 14-year-old african-american boy was executed after a hasty trial and no defense. the story reported on our partner website thegrio.com generated so much interest, we sent our own mark potter to talk with some people who are trying to clear the child's name. >> reporter: for years, george friarson has been haunted by the case of george stinney, jr. the youngest person executed in the united states in the 20th century. >> everyone wanted blood. and they got blood. >> from a child? >> from a 14-year-old child. >> reporter: in the spring of 1944, in the tiny milltown of alcolu, south carolina, stinney was accused of brutally beating to death two white girls, ages 11 and 7, who were picking flowers along the railroad tracks that separated the white and black sections of town. >> their bodies were found in this area somewhere? >> their bodies were found just a little further down where it

he had to be moved to columbia, south carolina, even to be held before the trial. so it was a very hostile, volatile atmosphere. the father lost his job in the mill, lost his home, had to, you know, get out of town. but now i think what you see is still a sense of, well, what about the two young girls. people still believe he was guilty. so you'd have to actually prove i guess to some folks that this young man didn't do it. so it's still difficult. >> it seems like there would be failed justice all the way around because then there is someone that is responsible for those murders that is not getting the justice that they deserve. >> yeah. and there are beliefs in the town and people have an idea that it might have been an adult. first of all, these two young women were killed with a railroad spike. this 90-pound young man to have overpowder and killed two girls, a lot of people in the town believe there was a white gentleman that was probably more responsible and at the least an adult was responsible for this, not a child. >> we'll continue to follow it. nice to se

win south carolina. >> i predict that we will win south carolina. i will predict that we will finish first and second in new hampshire not going out on a limb there, but going to predict we're going to win south carolina. >> cain making the remarks at sanford university in alabama saying that win will then set the stage for him to capture the republican nomination. our doug luzader live for us with the news from washington. doug, how does cain back this claim up? >> well, you know, he says he's laying the groundwork for the first series of contests with strong showings in iowa and new hampshire and following a win in south carolina. and may not be running a conventional campaign and working for some time to build a strong base in support in south carolina. >> that's what a lot of people don't see and a lot of people don't understand. we didn't just start campaigning, i started testing my message with the people in these various states over a year ago. so we feel very good about south carolina. >> it's a

south carolina or could bypass south carolina and focus on states where, you e1kn, the mediaxd markets are larger, whqe they could get to more voters. >> these changes could impact the noncandidatesok or those stl thinking aboutÑi running includg sarah palin who now has less time to decide if she'll get into the race. >>> the funeral for troy davis is scheduled to start in less than an hour in savannah, georgia. davis is theqÑi georgia death r inmate whose casew3 called for b national cries of clemency. he was executed on september 21st for his conviction in thej death of ae1 savannah police i] officer. >>> important notes for youçóçó right now, cantaloupes, you might need to get them out of your house. !aq! cantaloupe from jensen farms in colorado, get rid of it, throw it çóaway, no questions asked. 15 people have died from an outbreak of listeria linked to these cantaloupes. the cdc says you may actually be infected right now with this bacteria, you justfáó[ don't kt yet. >> it can take a week to three weeksé@çó after you eat contamd product beforew3 you become ill. an