afghanistan -- if we leave or stay, afghanistan is still going to be violent for years to come. i think there has to be a significant diplomatic push. finally, we are getting there. the tragedy is it took hundreds of more american lives. for me, winning is convincing everyone that we won. that, to me, is a fairly sad state of affairs. tavis: in 30 seconds, reminding people about your new book -- let me ask what it means that this story has gotten this kind of attraction in a place like " rolling stone"? there is a piece with julian assange on the new cover. what does it mean that "rolling stone" is the place stories are being broken? work on goldman sachs was ground breaking. dickenson on the environment. our occupy wall street coverage has been incredible. i could not have gotten this story published almost anywhere else but "rolling stone." that is the truth. if a public it somewhere else, they would have very good stuff, the material people really needed to read. it is a testimony to jann wenner, the publisher, and my editors, to take this risk. when the flak comes, and invar

close in afghanistan or. really where are the rights of women are protected they want to stay there and what are they were managed to run away because of domestic violence they were not about to continue with that. kind of terrible life they bought on their way home and then being there as men drafted their husband traffic and then the way they stopped by. police you know like that but up there mark bannerman and then turned their back to their village. or they didn't want them to any women organization reported they hadn't turned into the park and at the moment affairs which is a sponsor about that they get up if you shoot maybe turn them back you go well and the religious with a warlord with a powerful. monday. before give them the handcuffs that had been the flag theme on the public plate. and each of them subject forty five flashes in a public place in front of all religious. and he kept them or find. a quote to six thousand dollars. definitely he put there had been partly because. you put shame on the vi

when i see afghanistan, -- say afghanistan, what triggers in your mind? >> the terrain is as formidable in difficult as the people. [laughter] >> interesting. >> the people in our rural areas, predominately were we are fighting, the people live in peace with the land as much as possible. if they do not save enough food, they start in the winter. there are valleys shot off because of snow fall. when there are rivers flooding, there is not much to mitigate them. it is a very primal existence. >> it is agrarian? >> overwhelmingly. >> so, what is the population of afghanistan? >> a lot of people to not realize that it is physically and numerically larger than the country of iraq. most of the taliban are focused in the 50% or 60% that is pashtun. it is around 23 million or so. >> the bordering countries are? >> to the east is extant -- pakistan. to the west is iran. to the north is was the pakistan -- was back to stand. >> that is enough. the culture -- kai reed everything from warm and hospitable -- i read everything from war and possible, too, you mentioned,

well the ends of an era on the horizon in afghanistan u.s. secretary of defense leon panetta has announced that america's longest war is coming to an end by next year the u.s. and nato aims to draw down troops and then combat in afghanistan now it wasn't too long ago that americans watched as u.s. troops and tanks rolled out of iraq but after their exit iraq remains in a state of instability and violence as insurgents fights again a stronghold in the country now in transition and the last time the u.s. ended a war without a decisive victory it was in vietnam back in one nine hundred seventy five during the fall of saigon it marked an end to an extremely unpopular war the capital of south vietnam fell to the communist north two americans were killed thousands fled the u.s. embassy it was the single largest helicopter evacuation in history well this may be exactly what the u.s. is trying to avoid as they plan their departure from afghanistan the way the u.s. leaves afghanistan has the potential to define the entire war and with the official end

or syria. >> mark, your thoughts on afghanistan? >> after 10 years, we might have learned that burning korans is not helpful, is harmful, threatening. there is no question that on both sides we have people in afghanistan who want as o-- want us out, anti-americans who are exploiting this. it is what it is. the reality is that afghanistan is a loser and the quicker we are out, the better. >> newt had the best word on this. he said we are going to apologize for the burning of koran, ok, but let's demand from the government of afghanistan an apology for the killing of two americans. i agree that is in rages -- this enrages americans. we have people dying in afghanistan said that women can have the dignity and girls and go to school and people can have the freedom and democracy. clearly this is a culture where that is not welcome. again, i think that the two- parties share the problem and the responsibility, because it was the democrats, i will remind you, in 2004, for about five or six years who argued that afghanistan was the good war

afghanistan is not like another. european country to have discord leeks it encourage a woman far more about what rights and tell her that you have that's your right to have access to education to go to disco and it's going to look at it jeff in front of her door the husband doesn't allow to buy that i've been allowed to have but the joy from a breeder it gets for me is. then to don't go to school or university it's kind. of close could produce good. it's a little bit like going out into the villages to convince people with regard to birth control what you've really got to do is you've got to get local people local religious leaders and local social workers etc who are going to go out you can have westerners going out and you can have westerners who are have a high profile. in that country because they deal with when the local people go out the local people say you're not here as afghans or as pakistanis are in the nations you're here because these american christian groups you see are trying to impose on us a social

decimating al qaeda -- that was the purpose for going into afghanistan. we launched successfully to get osama bin laden. now how do we disengage? we have to do that. >> how to disengage and keep tabs on what is happening in pakistan? >> that is the problem. >> the irony is that people think of pakistan as the problem in our dealing with afghanistan, but it is the opposite. afghanistan had the strategic value only. -- onlys as a place from which you could intervene in afpakistan. it at the wedding will be a problem. the only answer is to have india -- evacuate will be a problem. the only etc. india take our role. why us? it should be the indians. >> indians and pakistanis have always been close. [laughter] iraq, afghanistan and, now the war drums for iran -- is it too much to ask that before we send americans into peril and combat and death, that we have a debate in the cars of the united states and a vote -- in the congress of the united states in a vote, up or down -- >> we had that. what you talking about? >> the issue we need to worry about is thinking

network and the regime supports in afghanistan the taliban. regime is now in retreat across much of the country and the people of afghanistan especially women are rejoicing and women are the bush administration with blatche to the issue of the oppression of women now women were oppressed a long time and you never heard anybody talk about it but when the u.s. wanted to invade all this. president. bush. said military. and women are no longer imprisoned in their home they can listen to music and teach their daughters without fear of punishment the fight against terrorism is also a fight for the rights and dignity of women the media talking to the whole country saying how we are going to liberate the women of afghanistan. can liberate their people you can liberate. and you certainly can't do it through the barrel of a gun. unfortunately now that the recent permanent civil war was that we were once again imprisoned by the fear. and things are going backwards somewhat . when i was fifteen years old now i have six children. are stuff that is twenty f

say afghanistan say it's simply not enough. apologies and not enough so. they have to be put on trial and the culprits should face the law so how will this incident affect the current war in afghanistan and how could this have been handled differently to help me answer some of those questions i'm joined by derek rowe policy director at brave new foundation derek it appears that these apologies from the president from the general are falling on deaf ears. well it's falling on deaf ears because i think you're right the people of afghanistan are particularly moved by these apologies i think the continuing violence shows that and i think the reason that they're not particularly moved by it is that this is one of several ongoing cultural insults being perpetrated by the occupation forces there not least of which is the frequent invasion of afghan homes by u.s. special operations forces and when you have a situation where a foreign force is in your country repeatedly violating the cultural standards of your country it's absolutely un

ambassador to afghanistan ryan crocker. thanks for spending part of your morning here with us in studio 7. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >>> simmering anti-western sentiment in afghanistan boils no a week of violent protests and 30 deaths including 4 americans. today -- is it time for the u.s. to go? a conversation with the u.s. ambassador to afghanistan, ryan crocker in kabul. >>> then -- gas, taxes and 2012 with obama campaign adviser robert gibbs. >> and -- >> good to be back in michigan. >> good to be here in tucson. >> republican politics. plus their recent trip to afghanistan. rapid increasing gas prices. how high and how long? with former ceo of shell oil. i'm candy crowley. and this in is "state of the union." the afghan government says the man who killed two american soldiers inside a highly secured afghan government building is an afghan intelligence officer. president hamid karzai has offered condolences to the families of the four americans killed since news that u.s. personnel apparently inadvertently b

afghanistan is the warst and the award for the rights of the children afghanistan is. the second country from the down put there for the power to afghanistan is the highest. and the award of maternal mortality that each fifteen minutes one woman dies from in my turn maternity because of lack of access to the clinic what a lot of money has arrived in afghanistan to improve the situation of women but i don't think it has brought many improvements have expectation that to be respected . as a woman has a human i'm not cussing that has a separate classes or subhuman so that's all right but we need and what we fight for the. welfare of those of us. one hank one. was one. with one . question is that so much i know in which of course you write on account of them so here's a the price of crude remains stubbornly high and consumers feel the pinch but why are energy prices so high because of the lack of supply and security. the world for the future science technology innovation all the latest developments from around russia we've got the future covered. happiness and tragedy. dev

now tonight we're going to speak to scott horton about the continued violence in afghanistan and what it means for the trained forces that the u.s. and nato troops are supposed to leave behind there then our monday hangover panel we're going to talk about oil prices the ties between housing and student debt and what rick santorum has to say for the separation of church and state and wiki leaks is beginning to publish five million e-mails from the analysis company stratfor going to look into the details of this latest dump with kevin gusto let him have all that work at night including a dose of happy hour but first take a look with the mainstream media has decided to miss. this morning there are some very sad and disturbing news the dominated the television screens as there was yet another shooting on a school campus and us this time in ohio. at least four students injured when a gunman walked into the high school there and began opening fire this morning mccown now up to five students shot and wounded the gunman opened fire in the school cafeteria early this morning there are two sepa

they are based in afghanistan, but their work is focused on pakistan. up at the border, we were stopped from filming them... but a former commander agreed to talk if his identity was protected. >> who were those guys? >> smith: the wikileaks war logs, released in 2010, contain references to the cia's private army in khost. they fire mortars at taliban and al qaeda targets in pakistan. with the help of drones, "shadow coverage," they ambush and kill insurgent fighters crossing the border. >> smith: pakistan is supposed to be an ally in the war against the taliban and al qaeda, but u.s. soldiers fighting along the border complain that pakistan's army supports the militants. >> from my time on the border, we experienced on a regular basis pakistani military complicity with the insurgency. it could be turning a blind eye as the insurgents launch rockets at our bases. it could be allowing passage, you know, kind of right under their noses. it could be even aiding and working with the insurgents to know what times to cross the border, telling them when our pa

i want to talk a little bit about afghanistan. after the deaths of bin laden, anwaral awlaki, our testament to the effectiveness of the small rapid missions instead of the nation-building of the past, the emphasis based on a lilly pad strategy will continue to help us address our national security issues as well as draw down unnecessary troop levels in europe, for example. secretary panetta, i'm here -- i was pleased to hear you announce a few weeks ago that the drawdown from afghanistan would begin as early as mid 2013. although i appreciate accelerating the drawdown slightly, i would like to hear more about the number of troops that will be withdrawn in 2013, as well as the schedule set for the pace of withdrawal of the 68,000 troops who will remain. as a long-standing opponent of the war, i also have serious concerns that the lessons learned from iraq are not being implemented fully in afghanistan. as the dod attempts to rein in costs, i am puzzled why contracting in afghanistan has not been more closely scrutinized, especially

when we come back, afghanistan! progressive saved me so much money on car insurance, this baggage fee is on me. did you check that bag? houston? well, welcome to savingsville. did you pay $25 for that bag fee? yeah. you did? with all the money i saved on progressive car insurance, i'll take care of that bag fee. woman: you're so kind! thank you! you guys just landed in savingsville. [laughs] yes, we did! you made my day. do you want to pay our college tuition, too? >>> issue two, afghanistan cutting and running? >> our troops will continue coming home at a steady pace, as afghan security forces move into the lead. our mission will change from combat to support. >> president obama last june 22nd, 2011 laid out his plan to end the u.s. war in afghanistan. the longest war in u.s. history. the war has cost the u.s. 1774 lives, and over currently spending $2 billion a week. commander in chief obama says that the u.s. involvement in afghanistan would shift, fighting the taliban directly, no. advising and training the afgh

special report from afghanistan. and kathy as. they get that you know i should look up and involve them in joe you actually come out there let me up on. my list of where you have already. been in front of. not only. are you going on in your. you have two schools they have that i too would works with let's men's and the ministry is one that woman is asian enjoys i'm so i'm i'm supposed to say there were many factors equal to and felt they were still there with two alike and each university's dick with this is freedom's. in your body no one respects the lozier on the mother all one they can look. live on for their own goods for their protection either through all that he wrote above. well you know if women don't wear their headscarf they will be harassed raped injured and humiliated. whole there is no longer move the gun is the law we have the woman in parliament we have the woman in media we have the woman in the universities we have the women in the government we have ministers and you can imagine that this that the suspect that t

military operations in afghanistan do you think that was the right thing to do you see if. you would you know things look very different but of course. the collaboration that pakistan has had in the last ten years pakistan has bit of a heavy price for that but it is also a fact that pakistan inhibits the region inhabits the region and will continue to have in the street and and this region has some serious problems the region has some serious problems put into terrorism and pakistan has always maintained that it is important to have collaborative joint efforts to be able to rid the streets and rather than for law of unitary approaches. in how we want to rid the streets and you mentioned. the price of your involvement in afghanistan has been pretty high many thousand of your citizens lost their lives millions people have been very placed there estimates that it cost your country around seventy billion u.s. dollars but we often hear criticism about pakistan's role. but there garstin involvement in afghanistan from the american side do you think the united states treats you fa

hundred billion dollars in afghanistan. the war and the war for the rights of the children afghanistan is. the second country from the down put there for the poverty afghanistan is the highest. and the war of. each fifteen minutes one woman dies. in maternal mortality because of lack of access to the clinic quite a lot of money has arrived in afghanistan to improve the situation of women but i don't think it has brought many improvements. expectation that to be the suspect it has a women has a human i'm not cussing that has a sub sub classes or subhuman so that's all right but we need and what we fight for the. welfare of those of us. download the official. to i phone or i pod touch from the i.q. exam still. life on the go. video on demand ati's mind broadcasts and r.s.s. feeds now in the palm of your. question on the t.v. dot com. you know how sometimes you see a story and it seems so for langley you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realized everythin

forces will end combat operations in afghanistan next year. quote, hopefully by mid to the latter part of 2013 we'll be able to make a transition from a combat role to a training, advise and assist role. he told reporters traveling with him. it's not going to be a kind of formal combat role that we are now. it was the first time a senior obama administration official has said that the u.s. would end its combat role next year. a senior u.s. defense official tried to clarify, saying it was consistent with the process which calls for u.s. and nato forces to leave afghanistan at the end of 2014, and similar to the way u.s. forces positioned out of iraq. >> it seems to me that our government is at odds with itself n a sense that senior commanders in afghanistan and also generals are under the clear impression that 2013 is a fighting season for them with full combat operations and not a training support mission only. >> on friday, french president sarkozy surprised hit nato ally, announcing an accelerated withdrawal of troops from afghanistan. on ca

cutting and running from afghanistan good or bad? pat. >> frankly, i believe that we are going to have to get out of there, and i believe the end is going to be terrible. but i felt that ever since we -- we should have gone in initially knocked them over, taken care of al-qaeda the boast we could, told them don't let this happen again and left. we put in 10 years now -- lot of blood and treasure, and i think it's all going to be -- >> it's responsible winding down of a war that's already gone on for 10 years. if the taliban is not some outside factor. they are afghans, and they -- sort out that government themselves. >> had is the impact of this on the re-election of barack obama? >> i think it will help him in the short run through 2012. but if he is re-elected, americans will be very unhappy. >> how much is a lever in this getting him reelected. >> i think obama is on the right side of getting out of iraq politically, and politically getting out of afghanistan for 2012. by 2016, it's another story. >> will he stay in afghanistan th

into afghanistan. -- penetratability into afghanistan. we have done a lot of damage to a. -- to it. as a result, more specific kinds of ethnic, religious differences. >> a federation of the kurds, sinise, and shiites? -- sunnis, and shiites? >> it could be very destabilizing. this is why in israeli war with iran would be so damaging to us. >> turning our attention at home, we have to -- horrific national debt, a financial system that is a disaster, the business of income and equity at play right now. nothing gets done in washington, because of the gridlock. as you pointed out, americans know very little about what is going on. these are huge domestic problems. how do we even begin to tackle those? >> you cannot begin by saying that you are going to tackle just one of them. you have to tackle all of them. >> we do. to maintain momentum and make sure that we're not surprised by others. i also think that public education is absolutely critical. we have an enormously, amazingly, global geography and very l

and they will not stay in afghanistan forever and they will not stay in afghanistan any longer than is necessary to accomplish that mission. one of the things that he made clear that he would do since he's came to office is clarify exactly what our mission in afghanistan is. as you know, nora -- >> i think what was made clear back in june when the president talked about the drawdown is that they would be there would be discussions about the transition, the pace and the slope of the drawdown and how the transfer would unfold to afghan security. obviously when the context of making the full transfer by 2014, you can't make assessments two years out about how thinchs will look every month along the way. but it is absolutely the case that ts achieving our mission afghanistan. and let's be clear, the policy he inherited was one of, you know, neglect in othe war in iraq. and he made clear as a candidate that he would change that. he made clear that he would heighten the focus on the real enemy, which was al qaeda. he has phone that and he has made clear that he would commit resources and mak

combat operations in afghanistan u.s. troops are going to stop their active combat part of the mission in afghanistan that is happening next year right now and ninety five thousand troops are in afghanistan twenty two thousand are scheduled to come home this fall and all u.s. combat troops are expected to be out of afghanistan by the end of two thousand and fourteen u.s. troops will stop fighting in afghanistan start training and advising defense secretary leon panetta saying some american forces will stay on to assist in the training of the afghan army but ground operations would cease and this was much earlier than originally planned. are now this is a big announcement and want to get into what exactly it means and says about the war in afghanistan in our first interview tonight or later second interview tonight but first let's take a few minutes to examine the reactions you know my constant gripe with the mainstream media in the sense that they devote a really pathetic amount of time to covering our wars abroad so an a

we still have tens of thousands of troops in afghanistan, and we're going to have troops in afghanistan for years on end. we're going to have drones and intelligence capacity. we're going to be monitoring them. afghanistan is going to be in a box and pakistan too that we are looking at very carefully. in that context, it's vet difficult for another al qaeda-like organization to spring up and start training camps. and it is time for us to stop the occupying large swathes of territory, 8,000 miles away. you know, as i say, it's been a decade. >> i was reading the last article you wrote, and you interview the president back in january. and he gave you some time. he mentioned two years ago, here's what we're going to do in the next two years. this is particularly what got me. said i never believed that america could essentially deliver peace and prosperity to all of afghanistan in a three-four-five-year time frame and i think anybody who believed that didn't know the history and the challenges facing afghanistan." so the question is, how can you approve of an early withdrawal of combat troo

three more times to afghanistan. he never found glory there, just the daily grind of military operations. but even so, he seemed the epitome of perseverance. being a soldier is a hands-on job. >> yes, sir, it is. >> reporter: and you're-- you're down one hand. >> no, i'm not. one just works differently from the other. >> reporter: once he was home, mccaffrey's perseverance turned to anger. in this army document, his commanding officer detailed multiple violent outoutbursts. mccaffrey was described as a significant risk for suicide and homicide and said to have poor insight, judgment, and impulse control, and appears to also have antisocial personality disorder. mccaffrey had gone from being a poster boy to rehabilitation to a problem child. sometimes your own worst enemy? >> yeah, sometimes. my mouth can get me in some trouble. i won't deny that. >> reporter: it was his mouth that got him confined in this state psychiatric hospital for four days. >> if you don't stop busting chops i'm going to go home and blow my fre

. >> and what type of role are they playing in afghanistan? >> well, they have provided arms, they have been caught -- i mean, we have found them running arms in afghanistan, so they are working what we would call a duel track strategy as they work not only to work against u.s. and coalition desires in there, but while at the same time they want to put forward the government of afghanistan, so they're walking a very fine line. >> but they're clearly supporting our enemies and trying to kill our soldiers? >> yes, ma'am. >> and in iraq, what role are they playing right now, now that we've withdrawn, and how would describe their role there? >> i would describe their role in much the same way as i did in afghanistan, as a very duel track. iran does not want a strong iraq on their border, but at the same time, they also want to, you know, encourage us out of there totally. so, again, they're walking both sides of the fence. >> so, again, they're working contrary to a stable iraq and they're also working contrary to our national security interests?

strategy in afghanistan? >> well, i think there's no question that the safe havens have been and remain a problem. it's difficult for the afghans and ourselves and our nato allies to decisively defeat an enemy who can take sanctuary and maintain its headquarters in another country. we've been clear about that. we've been public about that. the pakistani government needs to take action for their own sake as well as afghanistan's and ours. >> u.s. ambassador ryan crocker, thank you so much for your time. >>> after the break, president obama seems confident about his re-election chances, but will rising gas prices get in the way? obama campaign senior adviser robert gibbs joins us. >>> and later, secretary of state hillary clinton emerges in a new interview as the president's biggest advocate later in the hour. i am loving this greek yogurt. i like yoplait. it is yoplait. but you said it was greek. mmhmm. so is it greek or is it yoplait? exactly. okay... [ female announcer ] yoplait. it is so greek. >>> joining

. >>> issue two, afghanistan cutting and running? >> our troops will continue coming home at a steady pace, as afghan security forces move into the lead. our mission will change from combat to support. >> president obama last june 22nd, 2011 laid out his plan to end the u.s. war in afghanistan. the longest war in u.s. history. the war has cost the u.s. 1774 lives, and over currently spending $2 billion a week. commander in chief obama says that the u.s. involvement in afghanistan would shift, fighting the taliban directly, no. advising and training the afghanistan military and security forces to the taliban directly, yes. this week defense secretary leon panetta nailed down the drawdown. the u.s. combat mission will end as early as mid-2013. roughly 18 months away. the u.s. announcement comes on the heels of french president nick lahr sarkozy saying tout a french troops from afghanistan, the fourth largest con tinge only of trooby 2013, a year ahead of the u.s. >> for france the pursuit of the transition and the gradual transfer of c

mission in afghanistan, lester. suggesting that after all these years, the lives lost, the money spent, we still have not forged a real partnership of trust with the afghans who are supposed to be training them so they can carry on without us. now the prospect that an afghan intelligence officer could have murdered those two american officers, if that is proved, that will make it even worse. our ambassador to afghanistan ryan crocker who you just saw in atia's report has also withdrawn embedded u.s. civilians. from afghan ministries, so it isn't just the military relationship with afghanistan that is being curtailed. there now is also going to be pressure on the white house to announce i think a more rapid withdraw from afghanistan when nato meets in chicago in may. and this is, of course, going to be a campaign issue. finally, we should point out that even though the burning of the korans was reportedly inadvertent and in no way justifies murdering americans, the military has to be asking itself how can that kind o

but the ambassador to afghanistan says the u.s. effort must continue. he says, these are terrible tragedies, but we have to redouble our efforts. we have to create a situation in which al-qaida is not coming back. president obama has apologized, but it didn't quell the violence. a former general has this opinion of why. >> they want respect also for their culture. that's what's driving this and the taliban and others who are trying to undermine the government are exploiting it. as it pertains to the president, and i think his actions are appropriate. >> reporter: agreement is being hammered out to keep several thousand troops in afghanistan after the combat mission ends. >>> with the stakes high and tension mounting, the republican presidential candidates are pulling no punches. there is a dead heat in michigan between romney and santorum ahead of the primary there. >> they're sticking to their speeches instead of attacking each other, at least now. instead, the attacks are aimed at president obama. sometimes even at the collective way the country looks

-- and what of afghanistan's future? many afghans from the government to the armed forces when they fear the taliban will be back in power. bbc news, kabul. >> for more on the fallout from this report, i spoke to a senior from the senator for -- for the center for american progress a short time ago. these allegations have been around for a long time. but having them in this secret, leaked in nato report, is it important? >> at least for the last five years, we have heard about pakastani support for the taliban. i think the most damaging part of this report are the notes that indicate afghan security forces and officials in the afghan government are working with elements of the taliban and some of the weapons we are providing the afghan security forces are in pakistan and other places. it demonstrates our real problem that cuts into the happy talk in the sugar coating. >> leon panetta said that u.s. forces will be out of their combat role within the next year. what happens to pakistan? >> i think instability will rise. a

it's time to cut the loss, get out of afghanistan. i agree with rush here. >> what do you think, dana. >> that could be the place that i get to after i make my other point, which is that it was the democrats who for years said that afghanistan was the good war. that that was the one we should be fighting. that that was the one that mattered and that iraq was the bad war. >> obama comes in, makes a decision, a courageous one it send more troops, based on what he inherited from bush. he does not keep up with the karzai government. karzai is a tough one, and a weak leader. so, now, what we have is a situation that the violence in afghanistan is worse today than it was when president obama took office. there's a lot of reasons for that. but for them to say now that we should leave, based on the good work to president obama has done when the violence is worse, i don't think that they should be allowed to get away with that and i also think that freedom is transformational and that-- or transformtive. that they deserve the right to freedom.

there is a lot of tension between pakistan and afghanistan. that is why they need iran in order to manage afghanistan. >> in some ways, it is in part because the u.s. policies are leaving a vacuum. >> exactly. we are losing pakistan and some levels. they are looking to iran for gas deals. they are looking for them to help in afghanistan. >> you mentioned the pakistan- u.s. relations. does the u.s. need a new approach in dealing with this? in an election year, is that likely to happen? >> i think they do. we have had a troubled relationship with pakistan. letting this collapsed the way it has and applying pressure has not worked and clearly it is providing new openings for both pakistan and iran. that is an unforeseen development that has complicated the situation for the u.s. it is much more important for them to engage pakistan and keep them away from iran and create certain stability going forward. >> there is speculation about what will happen to iran. was there any mention about its nuclear program? >> pakistan has a nuclear program of the