and his position at bain capital. and generally, when a businessman is the chairman, ceo and in this case the sole stockholder, he's accountable for the business and affairs of that company. and even if he's not making day-to-day decisions or managing the investments of a company like this, which was a venture capital company, he's still legally responsible and should believe accountable for the business and affairs of that company. unfortunately, too many business executives have tried to exculpate themselves from that kind of accountabilities and it's one reason in 2002, congress passed the sarbanes zoxley exact. >> roberto, hello down there. i wanted to ask you to play referee here a little bit, because there's an article in "fortune" that came out that they're saying it exonerates romney from the suggestion he had day-to-day involvement. what they're saying they have found are offering documents for a bain capital fund from 2000 and from 2001 and show in these documents mitt romney is not listed as "a key investme

you live by bain, you die by bain. as he keeps putting it out there and ride the coattails of his success, you have to take the good with the bad and expose yourself to the liability and the job loss and revenue generator from bain. i don't think it will end soon. >> the key part, job loss, americans losing their jobs, you're going to discover that mr. obama needs to lose the job he mas now to get back to work. >> okay, whatever. >> what is this? >> i'm just playing with you. >> all right. >> and i'm grateful you're here because we want to have all sides represented. there is a question this week about condi rice being potentially vice presidential nominee. i'd say it was probably thrown out yesterday as a distraction from the bain disaster that's happening. do you think it's legit? >> yeah. as i understand it, when they had all the guys -- the money guys get together and i think in colorado she gave a great speech, i would expect she would show up on any short list based on her impressive resume and as secretary of st

, a business meeting, even by phone, attending a meeting regarding bain or bain entity snz. >> you asked quite a few questions. i didn't involve myself in any way with bain capital's enterprise after february of 1999. >> not participating in a single meeting? >> i don't recall a single meeting or single participation in an investment decision by bain or personnel decision. >> the word here is recall. really? no business trips, no phone calls, nothing. this is romney's own sworn testimony in massachusetts when he was running for governor. there were a number of social trips and business trips that brought me back to massachusetts, board meetings, thanksgiving, and so forth. i returned for most of those meetings, others i attended by telephone if i could not return. that sworn testimony simply does not match up with the interviews that the candidate gave today to five different networks. president bill clinton was on the "today" show this morning. he said romney's business background is central to romney's campaign. >> all your work life before you run for president is relevant. i think th

bain capital in 1999. tell us how you interpret this. >> i guess it depends on how you define left. what we found is through a combination of government documents, some filed with the securities and exchange commission some filed with corporations formed in delaware and some that mitt romney filed himself as financial disclosures both at the state and federal level, they showed he was still the sole owner of bain capital. he was the president the ceo the chairman of the board up until 2002 which is three years after he claims to have left in 1999 to run the winter olympics in salt lake city. >> eliot: let me see if i get this right. somebody who is the ceo the president and the chairman of the board and owns 100% of it is saying he's no longer there. this is making the definition of is from a couple of years back seem almost simple. how can he say he's not there when he has all of those positions and if i recall your article is being paid at least $100,000 a year to be there. what is their defense to this?

still at bain after 1999. who is the liar? and romney campaign already made a big buy for the hotly crucial swing states. bad timing, right? if you look at the poll map of swing states, it looks very much like 2008. but there are a few wild cards because there are a bunch of states that barack obama won in 2008, that not only did john kerry lose, but nobody thought any democrat would have a chance of winning them. barack obama won indiana. he won north carolina f. he won colorado and nevada, and he won virginia, which no democrat had won in a presidential race since 1964. not even bill clinton either time. but barack obama won virginia and he won by a lot. even though before 2008 his presidential politics were so very red for a very long time, virginia as a place overall had been sort of getting bluer and bluer. democrats had control of the state senate. they had ousted republican george allen from the senate in 2006 and replaced him with a democrat named jim webb. they have a popular governor named tim warner

capital. >> bain capital. >> bain capital. >> bain capital. >> bain capital. >> bain capital walked away with a lot of money that they made off of this plant. >> reporter: the white house clearly wants to portray mitt romney's time at the helm of bain capital as a weak spot. in ad after ad, democrats are suggesting romney is a fat cat job outsourcer. an opportunistic financial predator. keep in mind that many of those claims appear to be backed with little or no evidence. >> the obama campaign is absolutely doubling down on the bain attack, no doubt about it. if the word triple down existed, they would be doing that as well. >> reporter: this political media analyst believes president obama was at one point looking to steal a page from reagan's playbook. planning an optimistic positive re-election campaign. till economic troubles and weak poll numbers hit hard. >> i think the obama folks were hoping to run a campaign like "morning in america" in 1984. but the campaign i think they're look at is much more the george w. bush campaign in 2004. >> the accusations that john kerry -- >> r

bain is a good company. and, in fact, as you know, a lot of democrats, obama folks take a lot of money from bain because they think it's a good company. it's only when they're distorting mitt romney's record, for example, as has been proven inaccurate by "the washington post" and independent fact checkers this notion 459 while he was at bain capital governor romney, you know, shut down american jobs and moved them overseas. it's patently false. it's a lie. and it's sad to see the obama campaign reduced to this kind of, you know, these kinds of reckless, baseless charges. >> does mitt romney believe that outsourcing is a legitimate decision for companies to make, to make them stronger companies more efficient companies? >> david, you know, what mitt romney believes is that we need a plan to make america more prosperous and for people to invest in the united states. >> i yind statistic. but this is a particular business -- >> but it's linked to particular federal policies. what we see now is the highest corpor

you said you left bain in 1999 yet bain is listing you as c.e.o. until 2002. why were you listed as c.e.o. until 2002? >> the documents show that there's a difference between ownership-- which is that i owned shares in bain but did not manage bain. i left as everyone knows to run the olympics in february of 1999. i was full time running the olympics. i had no role whatsoever in the management of bain after i went to the olympics and that's been demonstrated by people who work at bain, by all of the documents but i still retained an ownership interest. >> reporter: even if you weren't making daily managerial decisions, though, doesn't the buck stop with you? >> actually, when you leave an enterprise and you have other people who are managing the enterprise, who take responsibility for the investment decisions, who decide who's going to get hired and fired, who decide compensation decisions, they're the managers, they're the people running the business. >> reporter: so you don't remember a board meeting? you don't remember talking about whether or not there shou

now bain is a problem. what we're going to have, 90% of what we're going to talk is about bad things about the other guy. my fear, george -- my fear is, on election day, this is going to be a very close election. whoever wins this election is going to have no mandate or no vision of where we want this country. and that's a problem. >> you served in at least two presidential campaigns, for george w. bush, how do you explain why governor romney hasn't put out more of his tax returns? >> i have seen this with candidates and i saw this with dwi with president bush, that came out late in the campaign. and a number of other candidates that i worked for. i think it's two things. first, obviously, there's something there. if not he would say, have at it. that compromises what he said in the past about something. but i think the bigger thing is, it's arrogance. many of these politicians think, i can get away with it. i don't have to do this. that in the end is the problem that sort of walk into these, i don't have t

att steidasn't tt different from anything bain did in the years when romney was actually running bain. i mean, bain was doing what bain was doing which w iome casankrting comniesnd in othases tsouing js beuse tt's wha pvate eqty cpani do he w dng tha the whole way through. they're now caught in this trap by making this distinction what bain didefor 99 a afte >>t wain eect doi the same thin. >> yeah y loo ahe iactlant whh haseen fturi ads wi anyppont ainst mit romney. that was happening while he was there. outsourcing investments were happening while he was actually ere. bain capital was there to use lerageo me aot ooney r its sreoldsnd nage. wheverhehipsell in tha press,hat'whathey re ing. at w them.o. the entire time. it's ridiculous for him to create this distinction between d bain activities in 19 t 2002nd gd actitie befe at. >> heeeds the dtincon caushe'sryin toay h was t inlvedn lang o works. he notnvold in tsouing. and he says i ought to be judged with my businessperice. t gernofassauset abt bines whene srted lookg, h sttedoing aolital onwa. david bernstein, you wrote in 2007 th

. >>> bain bain go away. let's play some "hardball." >>> good evening. i'm michael mer connish in philadelphia for chris matthews. leading off tonight, when you're explaining, you're losing. right now, mitt romney is explaining. did he really leave bain in 1999? why does his name appear on bain documents subsequent to that? and why does it matter? because accurate or not, the bain mess casts doubt on romney's principle argument that it's his business experience that most qualifies him to be president. the obama campaign dented romney's strength, karl rove couldn't have done a better job. perhaps it was because the romney campaign was so eager to change the subject that they let slip to drudge that condoleezza rice has emerged as a top v.p. pick. there are lots of reasons to believe this is nothing more than a shiny bright object to take our attention off of bain. but she would help romney plug a number of holes. >>> plus president obama says his biggest mistake has been putting policy over story telling. i talked about that two nights ago here. why doesn

bain capital telling federal authorities that mitt romney owns bain is is the boss. the boston globe built on that reporting finding financial disclosure forms that list him as the 100% sole owner of bain capital in 2002. s the stories started breaking, the response from mr. romney has been that these documents that show his name on them, from bain capital after 1999, these documents don't matter. these are just legal mumbo jumbo, even though i signed these documents i'm engaging in serving as the sole stockholder of the firm. that's just a technicality, i don't mean it, it's not really true. if you were a rich investment manager like me, you would understand. >> really? you would understand in your heart. today mr. romney elaborated on his defense by saying all of these forms, names being on all of these forms well after 1999, all of these forms, what they meant was he was the owner but he was not as the owner paying attention to these things he owned. he was not paying attention to anything at bain and steering anything and not going to meetings and making decision

bain is not going away. romney campaign spokeswoman amanda heninberg says the obama campaign tries to mislead voters with ads that independent fact checkers have proven to be false. really? amanda? do you really want to go there? so romney claims that he basically left bain in february of 1999. that he hasn't been involved with the company since 1999, february. but we have the documents to prove otherwise! for example this document, one of the companies that bain invested in, filed this paper with the securities and exchange commission on november 22nd, november of 1999 which is nine months after romney now claims that he left to go to the winter olympics. in several places, this document actually says that mitt romney is the sole shareholder chairman chief executive officer and president of bain capital and its affiliated companies. and there are many documents like this dating as late as may of 2001. plus even now he's getting paid by bain. in june, he revealed he got $2 million from bain. what gives? why

bain capital ceow. -- willard, that means. mitt romney currently on part-time leave of absence to head the salt lake city olympic committee for the 2002 games. while we will miss jeff and mark, we wish them well. well, romney was on part-time leave for three years. all the while he collected a paycheck and benefitted from the company's investments. today bain capital is now in the mix. they explained this three-year gap. why are they in the news all the sudden? they said due to the sudden nature of his departure, he remained the sole stockholder for a time while formal owner ship was being documented and transferred to the group of partners who took over management of the number in 1999. bain does not explain why it took three years to transfer management. for three years mitt romney was legally liable as the ceo of bain capital. obama campaign staffers held a conference call with reporters to underscore the seriousness of this discrepancy. >> either mitt romney, through his own words and his own signature was misrepresenting

they think bain -- pushing on bain is doing some -- pushing the numbers to help them so they are going to keep doik that. you saw that today, they just released another ad in nine swing states, basically pushing him again on bain and outsourcing. you're going to continue seeing that. it's going to be a prominent storyline. >> what about the latest poll showing the president leading by five points right now. won the state in 2008 by six. how does virginia look this time around? does either campaign have an edge in your mind? >> if you look at the polling it runs between 3 and 8% -- 3 or 8 points ahead for the president. if you consider the fact he did such a good job organizing in that state four years ago and already has quite the operation on the ground in virginia and all of the other swing states, ohio, colorado, places like that, he certainly has an advantage when it comes to boots on the ground and the fact the ads are running and the polling is showing they are having an effect on romney. i think certainly he has the advantage there and however goes the presidential race, observe

or was still involved with bain. the fact that he will not tell the truth or release the truth on tax forms to let us know, did you even pay any taxes? >> which is now a very fair question. >> it's a legitimate question. >> but you know, this is important, but i think one quick point that i think is important to make too. because republican, the most insidious john sununu thing said was, can barack obama learn to be an american? john sununu was born in havana, cuba, and clearly he considers himself an american and we consider him an american, he's a naturalized american. marco rubio, whose parents were born in cuba, is he not an american? yes, absolutely. myself, first generation american. am i not an american? the republican party has made being a conservative the litmus test for whether or not you are an american. that in and of itself is un-american. >> i the did not know that sununu was born in cuba, and you point out that -- >> i was going to -- >> he refers to hawaii as if it's a foreign country. >> he came to

was he running bain while he was doing the olympics ? >> he was not running bain because he was involved in the olympics, but he was involved in some respect. but it doesn't matter. he lost the tactics war here. another year has gone by. >> it is weird for governor romney to say i wasn't running bain as if it was something wrong. governor romney was running bain successfully. >> that's the trap. >> he needs to defendant it. he is proud of what he did. he should released the tax returns tomorrow. it is crazy. you have to released six, eight, 10 back tax returns, and take the hit and give a serious speech on thursday in which he says, okay we have had this ridiculous debate on when i took my leave from bain and when i didn't. look at my tax returns. now have a debate about capitalism. let's have a debate about jobs. here is what i am proud of having done and i will defend and strengthen business in this country and businesses help make this country great. here is my agenda going forward which is a free market agenda. ihe has to give a big

. >>> plus, mitt romney's rein at bain. new questions and answers about just when he left. >>> mood disorder mystery. democrats finally get answers about congressman jesse jackson jr.'s summer recess. >>> and -- >> [ bleep ]. oh, [ bleep ]. it's all mine, it's all mine. >> and a jaw-dropping catch. this seven-foot bull shark is no fish tale. >>> good day, i'm andrea mitchell, live in washington. vice president joe biden at the naacp a day after mitt romney took the same stage in houston. biden enjoying a much friendlier reception as he preached the gospel according to barack obama. >> we are our brother's keeper, we are our sister's keeper. we have an obligation. and at the outset, as i said, i believe this election will come down to character, conviction and vision and it will not surprise you, i don't think it's even a close call. >> firing up the base. nbc senior political editor mark murray joins me now. mark, it's no surprise that joe biden would get a better reception at the naacp than mitt romney and mitt romney did

>>> bain, bain, go away. let's play some "hardball." >>> good evening, i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia for chris matthews. leading off tonight, when you're explaining, you're losing. right now, mitt romney is explaining. did he really leave bain in 1999? why does his name appear on bain documents subsequent to that? and why does it matter? because accurate or not, the bain mess casts doubt on romney's principle argument that it's his business experience that most qualifies him to be president. the obama campaign has dented romney's strength. karl rove couldn't have done a better job. perhaps it was because the romney camp was so eager to change that subject that they let slip to drudge that condoleeza rice emerged as a top vp pick. there are lots of reasons to believe this is nothing more than a shiny bright object to take our attention off of bain. but she would probably help romney plug a number of holes. plus, president obama says his biggest mistake is putting policy over storytelling. i talked abo

bain. there's a press release bain put out that describes him having taken a leave of absence and quotes him as the ceo of bain. i think we're getting drawn into a fight over technicalities because bain still was his. he still benefitted from what was happening in terms of profiting from their deals and still signing their papers. it's got to be inconceivable that for all those years, he wasn't asking, checking, vetting, having some input to what bain was doing. was being done in his name, so he's responsible. and all i can tell you about the story i wrote today, bain in china. >> it's a fundamentalically contradictory story. charles, the bain pr team has issued their own statement saying he left in 1999, but the obama campaign is hitting hard on this case. take a listen. >> if the sec filings aren't accurate, then prove it. if he wasn't investing millions of dollars in shell corporations, tax havens, swiss bank accounts overseas to gain a tax advantage, then prove it. prove it by releasing

running bain. i mean, bain was doing what bain was doing which was in some cases bankrupting companies and in other cases outsourcing jobs because that's what private equity companies do. he was doing that the whole way through. they're now caught in this trap by making this distinction what bain did before 1999 and after. >> it was in effect doing the same things. >> yeah. if you look at the impact plant which has been featuring ads with any opponent against mitt romney. that was happening while he was there. outsourcing investments were happening while he was actually there. bain capital was there to use leverage to make a lot of money for its share holds and managers. wherever the chips fell in that process, that's what they were doing. that was the m.o. the entire time. it's ridiculous for him to create this distinction between bad bain activities in 1999 to 2002 and good activities before that. >> he needs the distinction because he's trying to say he was not involved in laying off workers. he

the pun. >> bain capital. >> at bain capital. >> bain capital. >> questions about bain. >> bain. >> bain. >> bain, bain. >> when it comes to bain, it is on. >> obama is now attacking romney's record. it is like he's hell bent on making the word bain synonymous with a source of harm or ruin. [ laughter ] >> i had no involvement with the management of bain capital after february of 1999. >> i was just -- the guy with the smoke screenish yet still legal title of ceo and managing director who was paid at least $100,000 a year to do what, according to me, mitt romney was nothing. [ laughter ] >> i don't -- i don't -- >> yeah. >> who knows what's true. it is a simple case of he said, he filed s.e.c. documents that contradict what he said. >> does truth matter anymore at all in the political process? >> either romney is misrepresenting his position at bain to the american people or he'ses are representing -- he's misrepresenting his position of bain to the s.e.c. which is a felony. not true! lying to the s.e.c. is not a felony. it is an entire industry. >> eliot: finally somebody who told

bain capital telling federal authorities that mitt romney owns bain and is the boss. the boston globe yesterday built on that reporting finding financial disclosure forms for mr. romney that list him as the 100% sole owner of bain capital in 2002. as these stories have started breaking, as this reporting over the last couple weeks has started snowballing, the response from mr. romney is that these documents that show his name on them from bain capital after 1999, these documents don't matter. these are just legal mumbo jumbo. it's just a quirk of the law. even though i mitt romney have signed these documents saying that i mitt romney am princeally engaged in the business of serving as the sole stock holder of the firm, that's just legal stuff. that's just a technicality. i don't mean it. it's not really true. if you were a rich investment manager like me, you would understand, really, you would understand in your heart. today, mr. romney elaborated on his defense by saying all of the forms, his norms being on all of the forms well after 1999, all of these forms, what

but bain's a good company. private sector experience is a good thing -- >> he stands behind decisions that bain's made about call centers or outsourcing, which is considered good business. >> he wasn't there at the time those decisions were made. bain is a good company. >> all right, brian sullivan, have you ever retired retroactively? >> no, but i hope to. >> and explain the attacks on his tax policy and outsourcing. does this have any precedent in term of looking back at mitt romney's career? is it fair? >> depends on what side you're on. >> look at the attacks -- >> could it be seen as fair? >> sure. the majority of america is not wealthy. you say private equity. bain itself, the name sounds scary. right? let's raise taxes on the top 2%. because they can help. if you look at that policy, the top two percent pay, if we raise taxes, about 100 billion a year. let's call that generous. the u.s. government makes $125 billion a year to dead people and the wrong people. clean your own house up first. if romney was

of bain capital in the '90s, bain invested in ase

i never had anything to do with bain. bain capital, who are they? do you think if he was saying that in 2002, he wouldn't have been on the ballot, right? >> well, if he weren't coming back and he had no ties to massachusetts and indeed as many of us thought that he actually had an intent to stay in utah. that he intended to possibly run for governor of utah after the olympics and there were a number of stories in the press that that was a possibility. so back then, it was the convenient truth for him back then was that he had many ties to massachusetts. he was working on behalf of bain and coming back and doing work for bain and then when his record on what he did at bain, what happened to the companies what happened to the people that were invested in, then the truth was now inconvenient and now he really didn't have anything to do with bain. >> jennifer: so the issue for us now of course, is his involvement in bain capital between 1999 and 2002 right before your race. and he actually testified that before the ballot commission that he did come bac