what we did in massachusetts works for massachusetts. it may not necessarily work in california, texas, or oklahoma. what we did works in massachusetts. it was never meant to be a one size fits all. the governor has described the mandate as a penalty. let's take a step back and look at what the president has said about obama care. in order to get it past the congress, he insisted pubically and to the members of congress that the mandate was not a tax. after it passed, he sent his solicitor general up to court to argue that it was a tax. now he is back to arguing that it's not a tax. >> you guys called it a tax? >> the governor disagreed with the ruling of the court. clearly stated that the mandate was not a tax. >> okay. which -- so i guess -- we're -- i think we're talking around each other. the governor does not believe the mandate is a tax? that is what you're saying? >> the governor believes what we put in place in massachusetts was a penalty and he disagrees with the court's ruling that it is not a tax. >> but he agrees with the pre

it fit massachusetts. it's not something that should go across all 50 states. >> the logic is the same, alice. the underlying logic is the same. the exact argument that romney has made, we can play the tape of him many times talking about free riders and the need to bring people into the system, to broaden the risk pool which allows you to do the insurance reforms that are popular in the public, that is a case obama has never tried to make. he's focused on things easier to defend and that has been a failure. at various points they have had almost half the country saying this is good for the country overall. they have never gotten a majority saying this is good for me and my family. as long as that's true, it will be more a negative than a positive in the election. >> eric, is it going to boil down, governor romney, whatever his position may have been and is now, the fact is he wants to eliminate this program, this is what he is saying. is that a winning issue for him? how much of a winning issue do you thi

what he said is he took a problem in massachusetts and created a massachusetts solution for it. what his state needed at the time, it worked with a democratic legislature and did what the massachusetts people enjoy today. the same model he said doesn't work for california or colorado or florida. as republicans we have always believed in state's rights. what will work in state and shouldn't be federalized. governor romney has been consistent that just because something worked in massachusetts, doesn't mean you federalize it. that seems to be the biggest problem with the democrats and they look at one idea and model everyone on this and creates a one size fits all solution. the beauty of the united states is that each state whether it's an education or health care policy or transportation can say we have needs that are unique and we will create a unique solution. by no means do you create a national model and say everything has has to live by this. >> they repeal and replace something that worked and i want to talk about the fund-raising on this. they raised more than $6.5 million

in massachusetts it's pretty comparable to our penalty in massachusetts, and in massachusetts almost everyone complies with the mandate. the truth is americans are actually a pretty law-abiding people. for example, we massively undercheat on our taxes. relative to the optimal amount of cheating on our taxes, people should cheat a ton more than they do. [laughter] we're pretty law-abiding people. okay? and, basically, if you have a mandate in place with a penalty that's real, which this does, by and large people comply. but many won't. i mean, the actions of the congressional budget office is this bill will cover 60% of the uninsured in america. there's three groups that are left out. unfortunately, undocumented immigrants are completely left out of this bill. that was a political decision made right at the start. there's nothing to be done about that. second is people who will be exempt from the mandate because while we want to bring people in, we don't want to penalize people who can't afford it. and the third is people won't comply, and there will be perhaps millions of people who

and of course, my leadership in massachusetts. and i think i was able to, by virtue of having a great team, able to achieve some wonderful things there as well. >> today the obama campaign released a new full minute television ad that will run in nine swing states. >> over the next four months, you have a choice to make. it's a choice between two very different plans for our country. governor romney's plan would cut taxes for the folks at the very top, roll back regulations on big banks. but you know what? we tried that top-down approach. it's what caused the mess in the first place. i believe the only way to create an economy built to last is to strengthen the middle class, asking the wealthy to pay a little more, so we can pay down our debt in a balanced way. sometimes politics can seem very small, but the choice you face, it couldn't be bigger. >> joining me now, our co-host of msnbc's "the cycle," krystal ball and steve kornacki. let's listen to what president obama said on friday with rush limbaugh's reaction to it today. >>

it never ruled on the massachusetts law. if there was any hint that that law was inconstitutional it would have been brought out. >> eliot: it's one thing to pass a law for a state and then another thing for congress to pass it. two different constitutional issues. here's the issue. as a matter of policy mitt romney obviously pleased in the healthcare plan that he put in place in massachusetts. >> he worked hard for it. >> worked hard for it, lobbied and explain to me why if it was so good for massachusetts, it isn't good for the rest of the country? what logically at a policy level doesn't it make it good for new york or cal or texas. >> it may be good for those individual states. those states elect legislatures to support that and elect governors who support that, but it doesn't make it good for the federal government as a whole. if you look at the approval, it might have changed but it's still upside down. >> eliot: you're talking about a process distinction. yes, i agree with you. it was a state that passed it, massachus

so that must mean when you created health care in massachusetts, you created a tax. why would you want to say that? >> does that mean the mandate in the state of massachusetts under your health care law is also a tax and that you raised taxes as governor? >> well, if you're asking me, yeah, that's what romney's answer would mean. but you're asking mitt romney and he knows a difficult political question deserves an unfollowable answer. in his opinion made itery clear that at the state level, states have the power to put in mandates. they don't need to require them to be called taxes in order for them to be constitutional. and as a result, it was a mandate, it was a penalty described that way by the legislature and by me.ey's budd street journal" said, it mak his campaign looked confused and politically dumb. while he was at it, mitt romney added this little lie. >> i made it clear throughout my campaign and while i was governor of massachusetts, the issue of the uninsured should be dealt with at the state level and each state can create their own solutions to meet the

also long time sheriff of essex county in massachusetts lost, as well. this is mitt romney's home state. all these big name republican elected officials couldn't even win plays on state delegation to go nominate him. he was the republican governor of massachusetts and the next two people who tried to be the republican governors of massachusetts after him, sorry, you didn't make the cut. there's a high school senior who's got more support than you. the whole ordeal was very embarrassing for the romney campaign. they had chosen a nice slate of romney supporting delegates who they thought would get rubber stamp approval and they would support him at the convention. these caucuses turned out not to be a rubber stamp an probable kind of deal. after the caucuses in april, the boston globe record less than half the delegates that the romney campaign had chosen actually won their spots on the delegation. the people won instead were in large part ron paul supporters enthusiastic high school kid and all. that is when things got messy. the party declared out of the

when he ran for governor of massachusetts in 2002, mr. romney gave sworn testimony about being a legal resident of massachusetts and therefore being eligible to run for governor. i lived in massachusetts at the time and still do and remember people having a little consternation over this guy that lived in utah would be governor of massachusetts. he testified actually he didn't live in utah and still lived in massachusetts. even though she was busy running the olympics in utah he traveled to massachusetts for both personal reasons and for business reasons. business reasons? he specifically mentioned coming back for board meetings in 2002, apparently board meetings for a company that bain had a stake in. he swore then he was coming back to massachusetts to go to board meetings and says now he was doing nothing, nothing at all related to bain after 1999. so mitt romney says he was not there at bain. he also says he was there. it all depends on who's asking and why. this year when republicans are trying to pick a republican nominee to run aga

. >> what's happened in massachusetts and certain federal programs. i think we're going to see destabilization and calls to increase the costs over time. >> paul: insurers are already asking. >> i think that maybe somebody should say something for medicine, doctors and patients. we've been sitting here through the whole thing, profit, insurance, drug companies, big hospital complexes. what does all of this mean for the practice of medicine in the united states? you know, the really geniuses who create new surgical procedures, new medical technologies, which are being taxed under this bill. >> paul: all right, that's the answer to that. >> 2.3%-- what does it mean for the practitioners? >> i think it means they're going to be suppressed. i think that doctors are depressed by this bill and patients understand that their doctors are going to be herded into a system in which the practice of medicine is ruled upon by the 15 person board that they've created in washington. and i think the republicans should start talking about that and that's what medicine

checked out the housing market in massachusetts and found it is building. >> unlike a lot of early homes we have good ceiling height and big rooms in this house. >> with their eye on retirement, bob and lisa shots have been looking to buy a house in new uryport along the massachusetts coast. >> we thought it would be nice to relocate to a cooler climb. >> the couple currently live in nashville, tennessee where this summer they have endured weeks of record heat, so they looked north. >> a little second bedroom. >> you have beautiful summer breezes even on the hottest days don't feel anywhere near as hot as it does in nashville. >> he re-did the bath. >> the shotz are part of a slow moving but encouraging trend. though sales vary from state to state, massachusetts saw its housing market jump in june by 18.5 percent from the previous year. >> and again the great windows. >> after looking for more than three years, the couple thinks that now is the time to make a move. >> the prices are now at what i think is a reasonable level. >> reasonable because the median sale price of a single family

he testified he lived in massachusetts. he said even though he had been busy running the olympics in utah, he traveled to massachusetts all the time for both personal reason and for business reasons. business reasons? he specifically mentioned having to come back for board meetings in 2002. including apparently board meetings for a company that bain had a stake in. so he swore then he was coming back to massachusetts in 2002 to go to board meetings. he says now he was doing nothing, nothing, nothing at all related to bain after 1999. so mitt romney says he was not there at bain. he also says he was there. it all depends on who's asking and why. this year, when republicans were trying to pick a republican nominee to run against president obama, mr. romney's opponents in the primary tried to nail him on this. they tried to say he should release his tax returns, he should clear up all this stuff. didn't really go anywhere in the primaries. the first person who realized mitt romney was struggling with this, that he was trying t

exactly what mitt romney did in massachusetts. mitt romney is now distancing himself from what he did in massachusetts and clearly implying it was a terrible idea after all even though most people in massachusetts believe it works pretty well. here's the key thing. when it comes down to the level of money that we're talking about in massachusetts very few penalties have actually been administered. most people get the insurance. you can take it to the enth degree extreme but the american people aren't stupid. whatever this is, it's not the greatest taxation in history. let's try to get the argument back down to a sensible argument. >> something i didn't say on this show but let me say this. >> hold on. the congresswoman said it. >> hold on. >> michele bachmann said that. the question is this, do you think -- let me ask you -- wait. wait. let me ask you, as a republican strategist, when michele bachmann, a very key high profile member of the republican party, when she tosses out statements like the greatest taxation in the history o

including the massachusetts hospital association. they've all made sure that it would work and regardless of what the court does tomorrow, people in massachusetts again, left, right and center they're committed to making this plan work and nobody talks about breaking it out. let me just raise an issue. i spoke earlier of one of the things we did in '96 with the welfare reform bill in. the end a series of artful compromises. we did talk about job training, transportation incentives, child care, day care, but also one of the things that was very, very important it was done on a bipartisan basis was the whole notion of child support. would you speak about that experience because i think it bears noting as we go forward. >> i will. if i may comment on your massachusetts health comment first. >> you may. >> creating -- the council of economic advisors did a study when i was back at the white house. they looked at the impact of the affordable care act on businesses, small and large. and they wrote as follows, creating a well functioning in

massachusetts, right, a penalty in massachusetts, he will stand by that. >> absolutely because he doesn't want to be -- part of his mantra is that as governor of massachusetts, he didn't raise taxes. so these are these technical definitions. the bottom line is, whatever you call it, a tax or a penalty, it's still people will pay if they don't have insurance. >> but the astonishing thing was that eric fernstrom, as close to governor romney as any of his advisers, has been with him a long time, would have gone out there and free lanced that, that it doesn't seem as though that's the way eric would do it so either he made a big mistake or he was on the right page and then they realized they were in an untenable position. gwen: what they ended up doing, chuck, confusing themselves more so that the conservatives they are trying to appease got even more angry at the look of the thing. >> really, romney can't really square this circle because the problem he was trying to address as governor of massachusetts is the same problem president obama is trying to address and that's the problem of free r

markey of massachusetts. the chair: pursuant to house resolution 726, the gentleman from massachusetts, mr. markey, and a member opposed, each will control five minutes. the chair recognizes the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. markey: i thank the gentlelady. i yield myself such time as i may consume. madam speaker, i have an amendment in order today, and the reason i have it in order is that it's a very simple amendment. it would update an antiquated mining law to end the free ride that mining companies extracting minerals like gold and silver and uranium on public lands currently enjoy. it would then send that money to benefit western states by dedicating the funding to cleaning up the more than 160,000 abandoned mines we have in the west. the underlying bill would extend a host of new giveaways to the mining industry while doing nothing to ensure taxpayers are getting a proper return on these valuable minerals like gold and silver and uranium on public lands. it is well past time to fix this law that was

massachusetts students are ranked now number one in the nation. there are four measures in the exam. we rank number one out of all 50 states. i added something else to what they did. i said those who pass this exam the graduation exam, if you pass in the top quarter of your high school class, you're entitled to a john and abigail adams scholarship which we established four years tuition free at a massachusetts institution of higher learning. public institution. so we created a big incentive for kids to do well, for schools in trouble to be managed by folks to get them back on track. by the way, the provision, the original legislation said there was a provision in the union contract which was interfering with the education of a child if the school got in trouble we could get rid of that provision. when i was governor the teachers union wasn't happy with charter schools. i put a moratorium on those. in my state the democrats had 87% of the legislature. you might think it's hard for my veto to be upheld in. this case the black caucus came to my aid a

shannon o'brien ran against mitt romney in the 2002 massachusetts governor race. shan joins us from boston. welcome into "the war room," shannon. >> good evening. nice to talk to you. >> jennifer: great to talk to you as well. so in 2002, you released your tax returns and romney didn't release his. it came up in one of the debates with him. let's take a listen to that. >> i'm not going to release my income tax returns and shannon o'brien's husband with whom i presume they share expenses, likewise hasn't released his income taxes so there is every opportunity to make sure that people know who i am, what i care about. i will tell you that i made more money than i expected but i'm in this race not because of money but because i want to make sure beacon hill works for people who don't have money. >> jennifer: this is something. so he actually went after your husband instead of releasing his returns. nice jujitsu right? >> it is a little bit of a jujitsu gymnastics, however you want to say it. it is a little bit of a flip and flop because what some people may or may no

that means romney raised taxes with his health care plan in massachusetts. this is why rick santorum said romney would be the worst republican to carry the anti-health care reform message into the fall. also we're hearing that chief justice roberts initially planned to strike down the mandate but switched his vote. a look at the inner workers of the supreme court. >>> plus count on seeing the obama campaign keep up their attacks on bain capital. both campaigns admitting the attacks on the business experience is working. >>> and ne

they're saying this because mitt romney himself enacted the mandate in the massachusetts health care law and they're afraid to have that. and that massachusetts health care law is turning out to be the biggest gosh darn albatross is any presidential candidate has ever had. >> and romney has to-- >> it's never too late he has got it get that thing off the back and repudiate it. >> after spending so much time defending what he did in massachusetts how can he now come out and say that the mandate was a mistake with obama care and a mistake in massachusetts? >> i think what you've got to understand is what the american people care more about than his consistency of health care policies over the years is their life and their money and their health. and this big government plan, which has now been affirmed, is going to take their money and guide their health care decisions. so, i think, you know, it's not too late for mr. romney to state it's now clear how big of a disaster it this was and mr. obama's lawyer convinced the supreme court it was a tax. >> and the wall street journal became ne

surely she have contracts in massachusetts that are basically funded by romney care. stay up a little later tonight, david. thank you both very much for joining me tonight. thank you. >>> coming up, how supreme court really did rewrite the affordable care act. they really did. and how republicans will now be able to deny coverage to millions of people, thanks to the supreme court. that in the "rewrite." >>> and later, the 14-year-old author of "defying conservatism," who was once the darling of fox news will make his debut here on "the last word", now that he is no longer a conservative. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and the most dreaded fees of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, you won't pay fees on top of fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no monthly account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and we rebate every atm fee. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd# 1-800-345-2550 because when it comes to tal

if you didn't want to hide it, why not put it in massachusetts or utah or somewhere in the u.s. who is believing this crap about i didn't mean to hide my money. did i put it in the cayman islands where you can't ask for it? you get a four-year jail sentence if you ask about people's accounts in the cayman islands. golly gee, i don't know how that turned out. we asked another international man of mystery how much money do you think mitt romney's actually worth? >> $100 billion. >> cenk: now obviously that's austin powers but you know what? it goes toward a serious point. which is another story out today about mitt romney. which is that we have no idea how much money he has! they keep telling you $250 million but that's at a minimum based on what we know. in fact, he holds all of these different accounts that say i only have to report a million. how much is in there? i'm not going to tell you. what do you mean you're not going to tell me. you're running for president of the united states. you're not a plumber or dentist. theid anywhere you like. but you're running to be the presid