geithner says it's 2-1. a lot of people would say they are taking $1 trillion they already agreed to over a year ago. taking almost another trillion dollars of ending the wars we're going to end anyway. not a shrinking of government. so to get 2 to 1, you have to do a little bit of budget manipulation, let's put it. you talk about the holidays. boehner and geithner can sit together in the room and work it out if they have the will to do so. there is the time to do so. but you know, is there a disposition? is either side willing to give what they need to give? >> jamie: the real question, i know they talk to you. are they talking to each other? you did it separately so you didn't have a green room discussion going on. keep us posting. great to see you. have a great sunday. the show will be informative, folks. the fiscal cliff is complicated but chris will break it down with the important guests. exclusive interview with the house speaker john boehner and also the discussion with tim geithner on "fox news sund

it's not boehner versus geithner. it's can the house republicans buy a plan that they cancel to their members. and will the senate go along and if so will the president sign it. until you get in a room and discuss the elements you get people talking at each other with some absurdity. we are talking about $85 billion a year in added revenue over a ten-year period. we are spending over a trillion dollars in debt every year and not putting anything into it. the republicans have been down the road before where they have been promised three for one, and it never happens. i think they are beginning to realize until it's actually on the table and signed off on by all sides they aren't going to buy into it. >> senator, did the president in this offer with so little in spending cuts and tax reform, the debt limit, did he overplay his hand or is he being realistic as bill seems to suggest that he has that much leverage? >> i think both. i think this is likely the theater. these are the opening offers in longer negotiations. if

>> geithner is in a stronger position, in the respect. the president is net and high can maneuver and say, $1.6 trillion and, they say, $1.1 trillion and speaker beginner has 235 members, and they don't hop to it when he decides to move, he's in a much tougher position structurally and we have seen the history of the show downs, the white house usually wins, and, the main reason why is, he is a unitary executive and, the majority party in congress is in a weaker position. >> chris: mara. >> what happened this week is interesting, it is kabuki theatre and both sides are putting out maximalist positions and saying the other guy is intransigent and that is how they tell the troops they are trying as hard as they can before they cave because the republicans have to move on tax rates, not just revenues, and, the democrats have to do a heck of a lot more on entitlement reform than is in the president's professional. that is what is going to happen if the deal is going to be done even if it happens after january, after a couple of failed votes.

that's another reason why i think it's important that geithner is the front man here, that geithner is the type of guy who can talk to the street in a way that's very assuring. >> the street, not the streets. >> yeah. >> also if they -- if we go over the cliff, i mean, the republicans then look like they let it happen all for the 2% as michael was saying because that's what this becomes about. that's not something they want. it doesn't put them in a good position. to some degree this is a choreographed dance that has to happen. they cannot come to a deal without a humongous fight. >> this is also the white house i think has managed the optics well on this and dubbed it the great reasonableness tour of 2012. it's not a coincidence that the president was golfing with bill clinton this sudden. that is as much the president likes golf as much as an effort to say, here i am with the great dealmaker, the reasonable guy that everybody likes, regardless of whether clinton's actually giving him any advice on this although i'm sure he is. >> if you look back to the health care debate obama tried

you heard treasury secretary geithner. they are going to force this issue and say to republicans, it's over. the tax fight is over. rates have to go up. the president won re-election. he made this argument. the american people are behind him. that's what they are going to argue. and they are going to say grover norquist, forget him, tax rates have to go up. are you willing to accept that? >> look, speak are boehner and leader mcconnell both have put revenues on the table. >> let's just understand. everybody in washington says revenues. there's increasing your tax rates and there's finding other ways to raise tax revenue. and the distinction is important, because what republicans object to is raising your tax rates. your actual marginal tax rates. that's the distinction that you have to answer, right? >> well, you can get there two ways. one of the ways is the way i proposed, which is closing loopholes. that's a pro growth way of getting more revenues from wealthy americans. and i think, david, before this is all over with,

you just heard from timothy geithner. did the exclusive interview you just saw move the needle in terms of the fiscal cliff being any closer to a deal? chief washington correspondent john harwood watching this event closely. john. >> reporter: i think what we saw in that interview that steve had was further confirmation of the fundamental outlines in the administration's strategy. one, rates have to go up. they're trying to break republicans on the issues of rates. although, they're not insisting that rates go all the way up to 39.6. you could see something in between. the second thing is they're taking a very hard line on the debt limit. the president said in remarks today to the business round table he has some cover from business on that because they don't want to see that limit that could be damaging to the u.s. credit raiting. the combination of those two things are the fundamental levers the administration is going to try to use to force republicans to compromise. then the compromising from the administration will c

. >>> tim geithner gets tough during the sunday morning talk show. he has drawn a hard line saying the obama administration will refuse any fiscal cliff deep that does not include a tax hike on the richest americans. geithner remains optimistic despite harsh words from republicans. >> reporter: with the clock ticking in washington and the fiscal cliff moving closer every day, tim geithner said they will only approve a plan with tax rates. >> if they are going to force higher rates on virtually all americans, because they are unwilling to let tax rates go up on 2% of americans, then that's the choice they're going to have to make. >> reporter: geithner presented his plan to republicans, calling for $1.6 trillion in revenue and cuts in stimulus spending. he suggested the bush era tax cuts must expire for the wealthiest americans. >> we put forward a very comprehensive, carefully designed mix of savings and tax reforms to help us put us back on a path to stabilizing our debt and living within our means. >> reporter: republicans did not welcome the propo

should timothy geithner have said that? >> i think secretary geithner's point is that any ultimate deal has to be balanced and republicans continue to say just cut, cut entitlements, cut retirement, cut social security, cut investments in infrastructure but protect the wealthiest 2%. we say let's do it all. >> even at the expense of going off the fiscal cliff because if we do that taxes will go up on middle class americans to the tune of 2,000 plus dollars. >> and my whole point is we can put the brakes on the fiscal cliff. they say let's cut taxes for the first $250,000. democrats say that. let's agree and pass what we can agree on and where we can't agree, we can have debates later on. i think the figure ought to be higher than $250,000. i think it should reflect the cost of living in high cost areas like long island. i'm not going to tell my constituents that make less than $250,000, that it should be more. we can all agree on $250,000 and debate what we cannot agree on. >> something about the negotiations themselves see

i heard something else interesting, though, in what secretary geithner told you. he said there will not be a deal unless rates go up on the top 2%. he didn't say they have to go up to clinton levels. that's where i think you begin to see the outlines of the deal that we will end up having, hopefully, at the end of the year. >> do you see signs of republicans that, yes, i have heard this too from actually republican aides. i haven't -- not anybody that was willing to put their name on it and would vote on it, but who said, you know, we sort of see that there probably will be something around tax rates, but it won't be back up to the clinton levels, and it may be for not the $250,000 limit. is there anything up there that makes you think republicans would give on the rates? >> republicans have told me privately they will give on the rates. they are not in the interest after this election in defending millionaires. the rates go -- the threshold for tax increases moves off of 250,000 to 500, 750,000, 800,000, a million, they will budge on rates. it will probably end u

timothy geithner has drawn a line in the sand. he says the white house is prepared to go over the fiscal cliff if republicans don't give in on higher taxes on the wealthy. you can see we're weighted to the up side by a ratio of 8:1 at the moment. finland is not trading today, so you may see some quotes not doing very well. we saw apple stock having the biggest loss in four years. the ftse yesterday slim gains really. up 0.4%, the dax up a quarter of a percent. is this a this is where we stand as we wait for the announcements from the ecb. we're up at a 52 week high for the xetra dax. cac 40 up half a percent and ibex up half a percent, as well. take a look at bond yields. we looked at that auction yesterday from spain. they raised 4.3 billion. years went lower. nevertheless spanish yields today 5.4%, slightly lower from where we closed, but they did move up substantially after a handle of 5.2. we'll keep our eye on gilts, as well. we'll look ahead to the bank of england. nothing expected from them, of course. 1.8%. david miles was

he's much more liberal than geithner, although geithner is a guy whether he's liberal or not personally carried the president's water pretty well. you know, i'm not saying he did a good job, i'm just saying he did not deviate from the president's line. you know, it's interesting. guys like bob rubin when they were treasury secretary, he basically went up against the president. if you read some of bob woodward's books, which i have, i mean, the way bob woodward tells it, bob rubin, the treasury secretary for clinton, forced clinton to raise taxes but used that money for deficit reduction because he believed that would control the economy. president clinton did listen to him. and i'll tell you, i talked to bob rubin about that anecdote where clinton says you tell me a bunch of bond traders control the economy -- i'm paraphrasing -- and rubin said, yes, i am. i asked him about that once a couple years ago, and he said it was true. it wasn't as dramatic woodward made it out to be, but it did has happen. but you didn't get that out of geithner. you kind of don't think you'll get that out of

timothy geithner at the top of the hour. we're going to find out what's changed since the sunday shows he was doing interviews on. anton, ben, see you soon. i'll see you at the top of the hour. >> capital gains rates are probably going to go up. does that hurt the market as well? >> we've seen a lot of companies sell themselves. it's been a problem in the banking industry because loans have been paid off. they want to grow loans. people are taking control and repaying their loans. i think it's already been anticipated. >> you've had a hot hand trading this market lately. what are you doing, especially bearing in mind we have a jobs number on friday. >> i'm a little concerned on the adp numbers. this is generally the weakest of the year. that's probably baked in a little bit. i think we're at the beginning of an end of the year rally.

we'll get their take on secretary geithner. the tax debates that's dividing the gop. are they forcing a deal or poisoning the wealth? all that in just 90 seconds. ♪ [ male announcer ] navigating your future can be daunting without a financial plan. your plan should be built to your specific needs so that it lasts through every stage of your life. ♪ at pacific life, we can give you the tools to help you achieve financial independence. ♪ tools that help you protect your family, supplement your retirement, build your business, and plan your legacy. ♪ for more than 140 years, pacific life has assisted families and businesses in meeting their goals, even in uncertain economic times. ♪ let us help protect the things that you work so hard for. to find out how, visit pacificlife.com. ♪ pacific life. the power to help you succeed. aids is not going to take my baby. ♪ aids will not take our future. ♪ our weapons are testing... education, care and support. ♪ and aids... ♪ aids is going to lose. aids is going to lose. ♪ >>> roundtable time now. george will i

. >> we'll be going through secretary geithner's comments, but first let's get you up to speed on other stories. joe was talking about apple. it has been a rough ten weeks for the most valuable u.s. company. shares tumbling more than 6% yesterday shedding $35 billion of market value. among the reasons cited by analysts, a forecast by an influential research firm suggesting that the iphone and ipad maker is continuing to give up ground it rival the android gadgets. there were also unconfirmed reports that at least one major stock clearing house was raising margin requirements. and then there's the fiscal cliff. analysts citing fears about a hike in capital gains tax in 2013. rick santelli has been talking about this, though, the things that were up in 2012, those are the things being sold now, whether that be gold or any number of assets that rose appreciably over the course of the last year. we'll be talking about the future of apple and the outlook for its stock a little later this morning with jonathan geller of the boy genius report. >> good old bump on the road on the way to a trill

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now geithner says if republicans don't like the plan, it's up to them to present their own ideas. >> what we can't do is try to figure out what works for them. they have to tell us what works tore them. >> reporter: but secretary geithner made it clear there will be no deal that does not include a tax hike on the wealthiest americans. >> there's not going to be an agreement without rates going up. >> reporter: no formal negotiating sessions are on the schedule here and many believe it will take about a week for the real work toward a solution to get under way. susan mcginnis, cbs news, washington. >> nancy pelosi will try to get a vote but won't give get republican support. >>> in "your world this morning," fighting is intensifying in syria between government troops and rebel forces. the rebels are close to capturing the airport that serves the capital of damascus. the syrian air force has responded by dropping bombs on rebel positions. u.s. secretary of state hillary clinton has repeated her warning to the syrian government not to use chemical weapons. >>> political crisis is worsen

through sakt geithner they've laid out more details. i think it's also -- >> in terms of new details, and it's taken so long. >> it's also incumbent on the president to realize that this is a conversation that he has to have not just with washington but the rest of the country. bringing in business leaders, small business leaders, going out across the country. one reason i think why this time it's going to be different from the failures of the past, the debt krilg debacle, the failure of the super committee, is i think the american people and particularly the american business community, realize what's at stake, and i think an awful lot of us, frankly, in both parties who are willing to get there -- i want to commend kelli as well. there's been a big group of us, well in excess of the majority in the senate who say we're willing to do our part. we want to give the speaker and the president room to get the framework, but we'll help fill in the details as we go forward. >> senator ayotte, there's not much time left here, and it does seem

mcconnell laughed at the geithner proposal. he said it was a serious proposal. he might be the only one outside of this precinct who believes that and geithner insists if the gop wants entitlement reform, reform to social security and medicare and medicaid and many of those things were on the table in that failed grand bargaining of a year and a half ago, geithner, the president, all administration officials insist, it's the republicans who have going to have to show a little ankle and insist on what they want. make it clear what they want in terms of those reforms, if they want them to be on the table. the administration is not going to go first, they say they've already spelled out what they want in terms of raising taxesnd revenue. we don't apleer to be closer to a deal 29 days out. craig? >> republicans are going to have to show a little more ankle. i'll be using that. mike viquiera, from 1600 pennsylvania, thank you, good sir. so will a deal get done by the january 1st deadline? here's what one prominent republican senator had to say this morning. >> i thin

the so-called offer was nothing less than a disgrace what he did yesterday with geithner. the proposal was as dishonest and misleading as date is long. the question is, how should the gop respond to this travesty? republicans should do several things. first, do what senator mcconnell did yesterday, laugh at the obama proposal. second, refuse to negotiate with obama, seriously. in other words, essentially republicans have gotta walk away, it is up to obama to make a serious proposal. instead of dealing with a joke. they also need to tell secretary tax cheat geithner in the middle of this in the most direct way in proposal is dead on arrival and he can save time and energy next time by not submitting an obama plan like this to republicans. bottom line is this, it is not serious. they should have no interest, republicans in playing stupid games with the administration. third, republicans need to shine a bright light on the obama proposal to ensure the american people know how insane and ludicrous this is. fourth, republicans need to use the opportunity to pass their own agend

>> reporter: the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell laughed at geithner. geithner said if republicans don't like the president's plan it's up to them to present their own ideas. >> what we can't do is figure out what works for them. they have to come tell us what works for them. >> reporter: secretary geithner made it clear there will be no deal that does not include a tax hike on the wealthiest americans. >> there's not going to be an agreement without rates going up. >> reporter: no formal negotiating sessions are on the schedule here and many believe it will take about a week for the real work towards a solution to get under way. now, so much of the talk right now is about taxes, but another aspect of this fiscal cliff is massive, massive defense cuts. that's going to be a topic here in washington today, terrell, when several ceos of the defense industry talk about the impact on their industry. >> susan mcginnis in washington this morning. thank you. kansas city authorities are still trying to piece together what prompted kansas city chiefs linebacker j

in his letter, geithner proposes a series of measures to postpone the date. geithner indicates his plan would free up about $2 who billion. >>> we now have an update on the health of president george h.w. bush who remains in a houston hospital. nbc news has learned his stubborn fever has gotten worse and he was admitted to the intensive care unit on sunday. doctors have him on a liquid-only diet. he's surrounded by family. mr. bush who is 88 years old has been hospitalized with bronchitis since just after thanksgiving. >>> now, for a look at your national weather here once again is nbc meteorologist dylan dreyer. >> well, it's been busy across the northeast, especially the whole eastern third of the country really for this holiday. we are going to see the chance of more snow falling across northern portions of new england, as this continue continues to move off to the north and the east. we are looking at an additional several inches, especially upstate new york, into vermont, into new hampshire as well but it has now transitioned over to rain to southern new

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there is a lot to talk about, including a new warning from treasury secretary tim geithner. he is now telling congress that the u.s. government will reach its borrowing limit by next monday, the 31st. remember how much fun the last debt ceiling fight was? well, that news comes as president obama rushes home to washington, cutting short his hawaiian vacation in order to resume talks on the fiscal cliff. there are just five days remaining to strike a deal. we'll get to all that in a moment, but first, we begin with a massive winter storm that made holiday travel miserable for millions of americans, including me! winter storm euclid -- what, are we naming snowstorms now? euclid. you can lid? well, euclid blanketed much of the eastern half of the country yesterday, dropping blizzard-like conditions and record snowfall in the midwest, and by late afternoon, euclid moved northeast, bringing traffic to a standstill, forcing the cancellation of more than 1,500 flights on one of the busiest travel days of the year. the weather channel's mike seidel has more on the massive christmas s

>> there are spending cuts in tim geithner's plan. it is got spending. >> what spending cuts. >> 600 billion in health care spending cuts. >> gretchen: they were already there. >> they are in the plan. >> gretchen: there is nothing new for spending cuts. that's my point. >> where is the compromise. >> republicans are digging their thels in and say we don't want revenue increases and republicans, fred barnes and bill kristol saying we are looking libe we are defending the wealthiest. >> gretchen: they are also saying if the republicans give on that democratics have to give on the entitlement spending. this is a very fiery debate. you can see what is going on behind closed doors. >> appreciate it >> gretchen: next on the run down how to make your relationship work. right here in your notes . one californian come make your baby american by gives birth in a hotel. happy birthday to ozzie osborn who is 64. ♪ [ dylan ] this is one way to keep your underwear clean. this is another! ta-daa! try charmin ultra strong. it cleans so well and yo

treasury secretary tim geithner saying and telling chris wallace republicans must accept the tax hikes for the wealthy to reach a deal. a deal is what we are after. peter doocy live in washington with more. peter, tell us first, speaker boehner -- the big problem right now with the white house proposal that was just presented. >> jamie, speaker boehner says he was flabbergasted when the treasury secretary geithner came to capitol hill and told him what the president wants. and this is why. >> the president is asking for $1.6 trillion worth of new revenue in ten years. twice as much as he has been asking for in public. he had stimulus spending in here that exceeded the amount of new cuts he was willing to consider. it was not a serious offer. >> reporter: secretary geithner says the white house $4 trillion plan has 2 to 1 ratio of cuts to spending increases. but everything we heard from speaker boehner suggests the $1.6 trillion in new revenue the white house wants is too much. especially since boehner does not want to increase tax rate at all. he wants the revenue from the closed looph

is this politics by timothy geithner, secretary geithner? >> it is politics on every side. what is so frustrate sing this letter clearly underscores what many americans already know. we have a budget crisis because we have a spending crisis. while the talking heads on tv go on about tax cuts for the rich and we get them, will we not get them, had is about spending and have to address spending now. >> when you read his moats, the -- outline that he sends to harry reid, he says the government is spending $100 billion more per month than what it brings in. i mean, it is really incredible. what does this mean for the fiscal cliff discussions? >> well, i don't think it really means a whole lot. i think it is -- sort of the white house's way, treasurer's way, of putting extra pressure on the people in the building behind us. by the way, none of them are there. i'm not sure that's really going to work, frankly. and -- i -- john, our colleague john harwood is exactly right. this is not a surprise. we knew this was coming. the question that it is, you know, three days -- thee busine

timothy geithner was a witness before it. she could've pulled punches, she could've taken it easy on him, but she didn't. she went after him. she's a gifted questioner. you cross-examine him and make him answer questions. really masterful in her performance. it was clearly not in her self-interest. her interest would've been to pull her punches and get the job, but she was in that person. she was a person i was going to do the right thing or what would be the easier thing is the best thing for her. so i'm thrilled that she is going to do a job as a senator and senator and i think she will do a great job. she will hold both political parties accountable and be a force for the middle class. >> host: what was your relationship with a 111 congress in 2009 and 2010 you smack they were our best friends in many respects. congress has a terrible reputation. a lot of it is well preserved. but for us, because we weren't oversight agency, we need to find allies. strong allies with a certain members of the house of representatives and th

exclusive with secretary geithner. let's pop and drop. canadian pacific railway up 4%. >> we didn't talk about this railroad but we talked about some of the railroads that might benefit from the strike. this is not a factor from that. the railroads are rallying. >> got a pop here for the ishares china 2025. jim? >> china broke out. a lot of people looking for ways to expose it. the china ftse. this is a place i think we're goings higher. >> gnat gas up 4%. >> got a beth of a boost. also from companies wanting to get a little more gassy. >> oh. >> well, they are. they want to get some of this natural gas offshore and i still like it. >> grasso? >> i bought mc, i bought ac steel and i bought big steel, leonard x. i've already sold all three. i've clipped my profit. i'm done for now. if the global economy is doing better, they will continue to go higher. >> up 7%, western digital. mike? >> accelerated dividend is one. >> and we've got a pop here for honey boo boo. >> what? >> what do secretary of state hillary clinton, chris christie and hon

obama will be long gone. >> bob: you are saying -- geithner says $1.6 trillion? >> eric: it comes from tax increases. >> bob: on who? you're saying go over the cliff? >> andrea: i think the republicans step back and let the party crash the family car. then we can say well, you voted for it. you have wanted it. >> bob: we had an election and you lost. >> dana: but just because somebody else wins an election that doesn't mean you should violate the principles. let them lead. >> bob: i don't understand the principle of maintaining the tax rate on people. >> dana: gosh. >> bob: you know last year, the number of people in the top five%, the salaries are way up on the top. hedge fund who don't get anybody employed. rip off artist on wall street. rest of the people employed -- >> eric: you agree to get something done so we don't go off the fiscal cliff and sequestration to get kick in? genuine in negotiating and get a deal. >> andrea: we can do what we like. the catch phrase. kick the can down the road. coming up, trillion-dollar ticking time bomb in addition to one we'

you heard timothy geithner. he said if they don't raise taxes on the rich, they were going to go over the fiscal cliff. but at the end of the day, if we do fall over the fiscal cliff, if taxes go december 31st, will the republican party be blamed? >> absolutely. right now, people aren't convinced that either the president or congressional republicans are serious about negotiating. but they're a lot more willing to believe that the president is negotiating in good faith. >> and let me ask you. is the republican party therefore becoming the party of the rich, defending the top tax brackets, and is obama becoming the party of the middle class? >> absolutely. and larry, the reason the republicans are in this fix right now is because they think these discussions and negotiations are about deficit reduction. president obama thinks they're about fairness. most americans, solid majority, want to see taxes raised on those upper income americans, even though only 19% think it will have much of an impact on deficits. it's

but the geithner plan didn't cut spending. in return for all of that, the president offered $400 billion in cuts to medicare and other entitlement programs. today john boehner basically said, go fish. >> was not a serious proposal. and so, right now, we're almost nowhere. >> just when we needed someone to not say hey, mom, he was nasty so i can be, too. boehner, like geithner, leapt to the extreme. republicans, the best response to a nonstarter could be to put a real thoughtful compromise deal on the table. an alternative. and as for mr. geithner, he wasn't alone either. remember, mr. president, the promise you made during the campaign? >> the way we do it is $2.50 for every cut, we ask for $1 of additional revenue. >> 2.5 to 1. that means you'd need $4 trillion in spending cuts to match the $1.6 trillion in additional revenue. but you only offered $400 billion, which, of course is $3.6 trillion short before you even get to the stimulus plan and other spending items. ethan pollak, steven moore, you guys ready to play? >> sure.

the proposal outline bid treasury secretary geithner last week shows that if given a chance, democrats will never use new taxes to reduce the deficit. they will instead use it to pay for larger government, more public workers, and more government waste. we need to have a serious conversation about our federal debt, which is now over $16.3 trillion and going up every day. how do we get that number under control? the president and his democratic

i would think that timothy geithner s not the man we met i would agree with you. this is actually shocking. i'm going to say that the president won, no contest there. can we get past the campaigning? are really just shows a lack of seriousness. gerri: all right. i would like you to hear eric cantor today. everyone is reacting to the president's plan. here's what he had to say. remap when he won his reelection, we won our reelection. this is not a game. gei: it was only a matter of time beore somebody said rope a dope. you have to bring out all the hyperboles come all the sints. you know, i'm thinking that it's very possible. if you look at the media coverage that republicans are going to get blamed for any mistakes that happen, any deal that is not stuck. when you think? >> here's the thing. you have to remember, for this to happen, you have to have two opponents. so far, we only have one guy in the rain. republicans have come to the table and said let's discuss at we can do moving forward. what we have from the president of him blaming republicans after he laid o

during a broadcast interview yesterday timothy geithner was asked what if republican don't agree to raising taxes? >> is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. there's no prospect of an agreement that doesn't involve the tax -- remember, it's 207b8%. remember, all of those americans, too, get a tax cut into that framework on the first $250,000 of their income. >> that said the president and speaker john boehner discussed the budget by phone yesterday. susan mcginnis is in washington with the latest on this game of fiscal chicken. susan, good morning to you. >> right. good morning, terrell. yeah, that phone call does raise the possibility that some serious talks could start soon, but now we learn that a lot of members of congress are heading out on a long weekend, not to return till tuesday, this as the impasse here on capitol hill continues and the nation waits. social security workers marched outside their office in baltimore wednesday. they're protesting the government spending cuts due to kick in at the end of the year as part of the fiscal clear. >>

you look divided. >> we had timothy geithner defending the plan to avert the fiscal cliff. let's take a look at grover norquist's view. >> every republican who had impure thoughts about raising taxes a little because the or guys would be reasonably has to go back to the drawing board. there's no real reforms. $1.6 trillion in tax increases and some of the savings are tax increases. >> does that it congressman kohl is having these impure thoughts that he had categorized these thoughts. does that mean that? >> i think what tom cole brought this up in a meeting. you need to talk about a host of ideas. that's a chilling effect on members being able to express within closed doors their own ideas on this. that's the problem with that. there are a lot of strategies in terms of how we get there. i would agree with grover norquist on this. the proposal is a nonstarter with republicans and probably most people who have looked at it. we have to get closer to this. they are both very far apart and holding their ground. that's no way to settle it. >> so all this rang lg about the fiscal

timothy geithner puts the ball in the court of the republicans. he says he cannot guarantee we will not go over the fiscal cliff. >> no, i cannot promise that. that is a decision that lies in the hands of the republicans that are now imposing increasing tax rates. stuart: okay. if the republicans do not agree to higher taxes on the rich, it is all there fault if we go over the cliff. got that. this is what john boehner had to say. >> the day after the election, i found the results. i went to the cameras and made it clear. the republicans were willing to put revenue on the table if there were serious spending cuts and reforms put in place. we have talked about it. the president and white house have three weeks. this is the best we've got? stuart: as of this monday morning, the white house wants the republicans, forces the republicans to agree to raise taxes. the republicans thus far seem to be saying we will cut deductions, but not raise tax rates. >> what is so flabbergasting to me is that geithner, you just heard him, he basically said if the rep

our relationship with secretary geithner was different. it was -- he was pretty much dismissed from kaywun. he was not really terribly interested in hearing from me are hearing from our office are working with our office. over the course of two plus years i had to 1-1-1 meetings with them. that was said. mom was about 30 seconds and the other was a logger affair or a letter the cursed me out for suggesting that he was anything other than sufficiently transparent. the language, i will use the actual language, but on the most transparent secretary of the treasury in the history of this country and really could not believe that i was suggesting otherwise. and i think the other thing with geithner is that there was a lot more nastiness behind the scenes, you know, leaks of false information to the press the came out of his treasury department and a lot of, you know, dirty washington political tricks. think there were directed toward us. i don't know if he was personally responsible for that, but under his treasure department we saw a lot more

people they're supposed to be advising this president of how to get us out of this mess to hear tim geithner says no i don't want you to tax my friends on wall street is absurd it's shameful but but somebody has to have courage to come forward with that organ wall and not only that a step tax would also throw a little sand in the gears for this automated trading that has put the whole system at risk is so unstable. that it's a very very important thing thanks for bringing that might happen tonio brilliant as always thank you for being with us tonight thank you joe. just. the. is the good the bad and the very is supercop cain is slightly ugly the good michael for forbes is a scottish farmer who despite being bullied and called names by donald trump refused to sell him his farm and land for construction of a new golf course despite being called a variety of names by trump forbes never gave in and his refusal to sell was actually documented in the scottish film as a result forbes has just named scotland's top scot of the year beating out sports stars and other celebrities for forbes sort of tru

if you were talking to secretary geithner at 4:00 p.m. today as steve will be, what would your first question to him be? >> my questions would be about dividends and capital gains as they're market related. with the dividends we've seen a tremendous amount of companies bring them forward in the name of tax avoidance. in both france and england we've seen a tremendous amount of steps taken for tax avoidance when they hire -- >> people leave. >> my only question, there have been studies done on that in the united states to figure out what the effect would be. my second question would be, back in '08 when the president was debating hillary clinton accepted the concept that every time we've raised capital gains tax, the receipts from that have gone down. every time we've lowered it, they've gone up. he accepted that. i want to know if his opinion is modified or is he considering laying off tax and business investment for fear that it will give us less of it. >> two very interesting questions there about what effect a change in taxes does to b

here's what nancy pelosi had to say about geithner's remarks. let me play it. >> if there is no agreement, then the fiscal cliff has to be dealt with. i didn't see it if they decent this, we do that. i saw it as a statement of fact. it's not a threat. it's a prediction. if there's no agreement, we go over the cliff. let's hope we can have an agreement. >> what do you make of the way she put it? it's not a threat. she said, listen, these are the facts. >> nice little economy you have there. nice little economy you have there. it would be a shame it if anything happened to it. that's not a threat. look, we have to start looking at what happens if we do, in fact, go over the so-called cliff, and what happens is, you know, one thing is we take a huge bite out of the deficit. we do it in a crude may, and there would be immediate attempts to fix it and fine-tune it and take some back. some would probably get through. if you actually want to look at it from a policy standpoint, it may not be the worst possible option to just go over the cliff and then

everything now is substantive about the underlying merit of what treasury secretary geithner. republicans believe this can be done through tax loopholes not raising rates on the wealthiest americans. >> pelley: we asked chip reid to visit with a family staring over the fiscal cliff. >> reporter: sean and jody watson have four daughters ages five to 14 and know all too well the sacrifices and sleepless nights endured by middle-class families in a struggling economy. >> we don't go out to eat much. we don't spend-- we don't go to the movies much. >> we do a lot of thrift store shopping for my kids for clothes. >> reporter: shawn was unemployed for a year in washington state then two years ago he got a job as an accountant with the federal government so the family of six-- their savings depleted-- moved across the country to woodbridge, virginia. his salary of a little more than $70,000 is less than what he used to make. >> before we lost our job they were in-- two were in piano and we haven't been able to do things like that. >> reporter: what's the hardest part of this? >> for