office and that was the cincinnati office thatjb÷s at fault. what is your reaction? answer -- it's hard to answer that question because in my mind, we're low level employees so we are lower than dirt according to the peopleq2z int;y d.c. they were basically throwing us under the bus. onemw4;x last one. question -- so it's your perspective that ultimately the responsible parties for the decisions that were i.e not in the cincinnati office. i don't know how to answer that question. we didn't do anything wrong. m telling us,x? what to do. you ultimatelyled followed directions from washington. but with respect to the th articular tea party$e application, i believe so. this seems to contradicted everything that we have been told about this story about rogue agents. where the does that take us now? >> it talks to washington, d.c. and much closer to the white house. jay carney stood in front of the nation and wef know anything about this situation. this was a case of a few,hdjdtq. since that time we 5g: learned the white house chief counsel was brie

this was a case of a fewhdjdtq ájtut agents inhg cincinnati. since that time we 5g: learned the white house chief counsel was briefed. president's own chief of staffb:Ñ and closesténoi confidant"pep was briefed and it wasn't just in cincinnati. it was in texas. this is the beginning of many hearings we need to have. the obama administration is not çs problem and many americans are sayingpn plans they are the problem. perhaps necessity made the >> sean: thanks for being with us. we'll work hard and get to obvious thereee/q%uz obama contradictions. thank you both. >> coming up a brand-new scandal about to rock the irs. it has to do with the taxsz[9ñ agency wasting millions of your hard earned tax dollars. and plus the "new york times" is reporting the attorney general is using support from his allies in the west wing. white house. is there any chance that the top cop can hold on to#fúz the job? and here is video of the day. here is option number one.st >> that was a nightmare. >> sean: nightmare, is that the video of the day. just join us on

even the ones that work on a case by case basis with people in cincinnati who are not tax lawyers. so when a troublesome case comes up, a tricky case, a case ha has law questions, they go to cincinnati -- i'm sorry, to the lawyers in washington. that's what that technical eo unit you were talking about earlier is all about. we do have this heavy handed indication of washington, d.c. washington. >> sleazy intonation that suggests in the war movies, call berlin like there's some sort of washington or hollywood. in this case, it doesn't mean washington generally. it means their head office. >> that's right. look, we've seen the selective release of transcripts. when i see them at first i think there's something there. you go back and look at the fuller transcript that was released after that. and the picture is a lot more muddy and suggests a person in cincinnati consulting account lawyers in washington. what does this mean and then the lawyers in washington saying can you send us a couple of those cases so we can look at them. that doesn't mean something wrong didn't happen here. it

you're tired of everybody dumping on cincinnati, blaming the local cincinnati person envelope right? >> we were taking the hit on this thing and it's offensive when all the inside the beltway types are trying to pawn this off as being done by a rogue agent in cincinnati. this thing requires more than a rogue agent. requires an evil genius and i don't think there's any around here the last time i looked. >> neil: a lot of geniuses in cincinnati and a lot of verycvsm smart folks in cincinnati. some might do bad things. why are you so sure it doesn't >> well, anybody that has runed a administrativeç office knows come from the top. i don't know for sure that it didn't start here, but my bet is that it didn't. it came from the top. and it's the kind of thing that is an assault on our democracy. it's outraging just. á"tttjj trying to tempt darrell issa to say the investigation as far as it's gone is as far as it's ton no proof of a washington connection or a white house connection, he didn't more or less say that it stopped at the doctors of cincinnati but clearly implied that what too

it suggests a person in cincinnati consulting the lawyers in washington. what does this mean? and then the lawyers in washington saying, can you send us a couple of those case so we can look at them? that doesn't mean something wrong didn't happen here. it doesn't mean that these delays weren't unconscionable. it's a very different picture from the white house pushing a button, making a call and ordering this up from the irs. >> the salient debate, issa is trying to conflate the idea that the scandal originated in washington either understand orders from somebody at the irs or the white house with the fact that as nick just said, of course, there are irs lawyers consulting in washington. >> he hasn't found -- correct me if i'm wrong. has he found a witness within the irs that says i got influence by somebody outside the irs? >> not that he's put out. >> wouldn't he have done that, if he had? >> well, yeah. the piece i wrote is basically based on the fact he said he was going to release these transcripts. he hasn't. the guy pushing him to do it is the top democrat on the commit

a cincinnati irs worker worker told, quote, it is impossible. we're controlled by many, many people. we have to submit many, many reports. the chances of two agents being rogue and doing anything like that could never happen. chairman. house oversight committee says the irs scandal is much bigger than cincinnati. >> the administration is still, their paid liar, spokesperson, picture behind, he is still making up things what happens and calling this local rogue. there is no indication, the reason that lois lerner tried to take the fifth is not because there is a rogue in cincinnati. it is because this is a problem that was coordinated all likelihood right out of washington headquarters and we're getting to proving it. >> reporter: chairman issa staffers continue conducting transcribed interviews with those irs employees from ohio. we expect a hearing in his committee on thursday, looking into lavish spending at the irs, bill. bill: that is thursday but what do we expect later this afternoon, mike? >> reporter: it will be interesting. it is the fi

, the hotbed of activism in cincinnati. i'm reminded of the last great life in the hitchcock movie, they say what are you going to do with people like this? you can't just go into the fox world and make people see reason. you can't have rush limbaugh ever say oops, we got this wrong. let's move on to something else. this is part of the narrative. they keep saying you know if we get the facts wrong, there is still a credibility issue at the white house, a still troublesome wor-orr worrysome pattern, they sure are not governing. they would rather do this than get close to the immigration bill. >> it is a cold, cold world, where truth is in hibernation, thank you both for joining me tonight. >>> coming up, the nsa makes its case. and the congressmen who call themselves fiscally conservative. [ male announcer ] this is kevin. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch

they use the irs out there some place in cincinnati. they use benghazi. they use all this stuff basically to say this president did it somehow. today a guy said he has an enemy list and they're using it out in the irs. i read the article. i didn't wait for the jump. i went to the second paragraph. there is no enemies list. there is no evidence he wrote one. there is no evidence anything was used from the white house in the irs. he simply states it now. this is how these republicans are talking. >> yeah. i know. they go immediately to it's obama's fault, he was personally involved, when, in fact, there is no evidence that any political appointee was -- >> how do you fight that if you're him? >> -- that anybody outside of cincinnati was involved. >> how do you do this, gene, if you know you're just being mud balled? >> well, you know, it's going to happen, right? you know, this is a free country. we have free speech. so they can say what they want. i think one way you fight back is you fight back. right? you come out swinging. what else can you do? >> well,

most of the work has been in cincinnati. i am interested in knowing the definition of political in 501(c)3 is inadequate and if there is some rubber language in there that allowed for perhaps some miscalculation. i am looking of the changes in the law and what happened to us as the country. the fact you have had so many more applications in that category is at a time when our economy is not doing that well. i am interested in which of those groups that are applying would have a political nature of that -- you said 3,357, the additional ones. >> they will get you the information. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. >> i must tell you that i am grateful for your willingness to do this, because some people would say the smart thing to do would be to just run away. seriously, i am grateful for your willingness to jump in under very difficult circumstances. >> thank you. >> mr. quigley mentioned that he is not usually in shock and all of corruption, i believe is what he said. mismanagement or incompetence or missteps or corrupt

over carne saying it is a cincinnati rogue irs. and issa said he is a paid ligi the goods, let's see them. well, we have transscripts and david plouffe who is very tight with the president coming out and saying that darril issa is an arsonist and insurance fraud. >> 1972 arrest. youthful indiscretion. what does that tell you? >> they are freaking out and they need to some doing that if they want to get through. this they would like to turn darril issa in ken starr and evil character and maybe they can try that, but the truth is, this is not about the sex life of anybody or anything like. that this is an abuse by the least trusted and liked government agency, the irs taking shots at the president's political opponents. it will not wash to talk about darril issa is doing in 1972 and tells me that the anger stems from fear. issa is not ideal with the republican when he uses hot words like liar, that's not a good thing to do. they will not cut. it they will need more than character assassination. and when you respond in time it doesn't

you have a fight as to who knew what when in cincinnati and washington, d.c. senator hoyer was asked, he said you can understand why they would be defensive about it. if you believe holly paz, some of it washes up in washington. >> one of the things she talks about is the fact they were looking at politics in this. she says they were looking at all groups, but not all groups have the name tea party in their title. >> reporter: and that was one of the biggest issues, too, in some of the other transcripts i looked at a couple weeks ago. it was clear there were certain groups getting more scrutiny, and other groups that came in, in fact, the deposition from elizabeth hofbaker in cincinnati said they would get applications for liberal groups, there was no adjudication with the level of scrutiny they were giving to the tea partiers. >> maybe there's no immediate answer, but for people watching, it is almost like this is an onion, we have gotten to layer three, and there are 393 layers to go. you wonder how much more we will learn. is this somewhat of a smoking gun?

the reason that lois lerner tried to take the fifth is not because there's a rogue in cincinnati. it's because this is a problem that was coordinated in all likelihood right out of washington headquarters and we're getting to proving it. >> all right. let talk about this whole thing and how high up the food chain we can say. here now is guy benson, the political editor. media editor with the national review and our distinguished co-host of the evening aei kris visiting chancellor ed kunard. author of the book "unintended consequences." you filed a story light this afternoon on nro. you are pointing the finger at william wilkins the chief counsel of the irs, who is a political apontee. tell me about that. >> well, we don't know that wilkins will be implicated in this scandal w. dough know the more we know about the irs scandal, larry the worse it gets for them. from their original explanation that this was a couple of rogue employees in cincinnati, that has been completely exploded. first we went this one up to lois lerner in d.c. the head of the national review showed that a team

cincinnati irs insisting washington is throwing us under the bus. that's not all heard from workers at the irs office at the center of the scandal in cincinnati. steven joins us with more. nice to see you. >> great to be here. >> what are they saying in ohio? >> you've got these two irs agents basically that they interviewed -- >> who is they? >> this is the committee, oversight and government reform going in and taking people's testimony and putting people on the record and saying, okay, well, were you told to do this? and one of the people said yes, we were told to basically target tea party groups and they were just doing their job. they were just doing what their higher ups told them to do. so the inference is it wasn't just a few rogue folks in cincinnati who just dreamed up this plot by themselves, but that it was actually ordered from washington. you have a second employee who actually was so uncomfortable with the direction to go after tea party groups that they requested and got a transfer. that to me -- if you're upset enough to get a tran

stuart: is the feeling in cincinnati that it was just cincinnati, the guys in cincinnati came up with this program of targeting conservatives or is the feeling where you are that it goes all the way to washington, d.c.? >> it is absolutely washington. does anybody truly believe local irs agents write the rules of engagement in the extensive questionnaires, are they without oversight? i find that impossible to believe in an agency so heavily regulated and we have obvious communications going to washington. if they are right and it is just a couple of rogue agents, doesn't that scream for a complete overhaul and reform of the irs if it is possible for a couple of people to hold these groups for months and sometimes years? stuart: what is the feeling of the city? everywhere else in the country there is a great deal of outrage. >> tremendous outrage. you cannot find anybody supportive of the irs, and how could you possibly be? in everybody's mind, this administration happens one direction, but what happens to the next administration? it is always a situation, this is a prime example, a re

polk point pointing the finger at folks in cincinnati. the answer liars somewhere. >> three years after the events originally unfolded we have a stonewall. we still do not know who orchestrated this campaign or whether there was indeed orchestration from the top. we simply don't know. today we might get more information on three aspects of the irs scandal. number one delays in granting tax-exempt status. number two of intimidation of republican donors by use of irs audits. the number three the release of personal information from conservatives by. it will be a very personal series of testimony. martha: we've heard some of these stories here and we've had some of these folks on across the channel we have. i think this is part of the story that is going to shock the american people because they haven't heard what these folks actually went through and the level harrassment that some of them, and they have been he will whying and screaming about this for years but nobody really took it seriously until very recently. this will be something, st

neil: his is bigger than just cincinnati, and he is mad at washington for blaming cincinnati. >> how about this, you think that american people have a right to know, terry jeffrey broke the story that irs of investing in spying come. hidden camera in plants in clocks in ashtrays to spy on tax payers. by the way today, they cancelled that contract. ight to know that american that? how about today, just today, jim jordan, in a house hearing, asked the head of the fbi, who is in charge of the investigation? the head of fbi said, he does not know. how is this not news. neil: you know, i always think, even if you take sinister intentions aside, which i doubt. we have all scandals going on at say same time, the one with the bipartisan ickiness is you know nsa, getting people's phone records. but i found it a convenient different distraction from irs thing that is more damaging but it is provide an opportunity. >> in the initial stages this was a bipartisan outrage. andrea mitchell calling this greatest outrage, it was bipartisan, but this should like so many other scandals. neil: what do y

>> i don't have any reason to believe it came from cincinnati. arafat announces in utah in the wash and novices who we've been dealing with. >> mr. chairman, we should figure out or perhaps the inspector general has the information to speed up the process on the investigation of where the information was leaked from because that would dispel the cincinnati narrative that's out there. ms. martinek, the irs agent who handled your case is ms. richards quite >> that's correct. >> at ms. richards had a first name? >> should never give her first name. >> did you correspond with every other irs agent by your case? >> i did not, but attorney sally wagon maker did. >> could you provide the names of who she corresponded with what this committee? >> yes. >> did ms. richards indication is discussing your case are seeking guidance from anyone else in the irs? >> she did a couple times put me on hold and then said i will check with my supervisors. >> within cincinnati or so miles? >> i don't know that. >> ms. belsom, you are contacted by ms. joseph her. you co

at a field office in cincinnati, ohio, as the obama administration has claimed. instead, one of those cincinnati workers telling congressional investigators they got their marching orders from washington. all this sure to raise plenty of new questions on capitol hill this week where there will be no fewer than three separate hearings related to the internal revenue service. meanwhile, new details also emerging about how the agency is spending your tax dollars. a government watchdog report set to be released in just a few days shows the irs spent more than 50 million of your taxpayer dollars to hold more than 200 conferences between 2010 and 2012, many of those conferences included hefty fees four guest speakers, including one, we're told, who spoke about leadership through art. then there are the special perks. some employees even booked pricey hotel suites, even the presidential suite at one place. and who can forget the agency's love for the parody video, training videos like the takeoff on sitcoms. now the latest from washington. peter doocy. >> the government

the workers involved in that division down there in cincinnati. if at any point in this some of these federal workers feel that they are vulnerable and say that they were given signals by political appointees that they should do this, we're talking about a new ball game at that point. and this amazing figure of douglas shulman going up to the white house 157 times, three times as many as katherine sebelius who is running -- >> paul: let me ask but that because the defense for shulman is, this was just obamacare in which the irs has a significant new role, so what do you expect? >> katherine se legalious is the secretary of hhs, she was requesting to be in charge of implementing the entire thing, went up to the white house about 50 times. up there three times as many times as she was. i'd like to know who he was talking t. lower staffers about irs regulations, or maybe people around the oval office. >> paul: collin, we're also seeing lawsuits come out against the federal government by some of the groups that were aggrieved here. cleta mitchell has

one employee saying about the two rogue agents in cincinnati, that charge by the i.g. and administration, quote it's impossible. we are controlled by many people. and have to submit many reports. the chance of two agents being rogue could never happen. apgtd asked about that it was originated and contained in cincinnati, one agent says, quote, i still hear people saying we were low level employees so we were lower than dirt according to people in d.c. so take it for what it is. thaerp throwing us underneath the bus. let's bring in our panel. >>> okay, this obviously deals with the targeting of conservative groups. and today's testimony, what do you think? >> i don't think it added much. i didn't think danny werfel said anything unexpected. the most interesting thing that we heard came from the i.g. who said we didn't really look at the politics in the irs. and the other interesting thing he said, was the continuing use of the caveat, as of today. nobody wants to be out on a limb saying i can tell you that this didn't happen. because nobody can tell us that it doesn't r

it sounds like holly is now also trying to say she how i thoughty were working on it in cincinnati, cincinnati people thought they were waiting for direct in dc. but it was really just a miscommunication, i spoke with a couple forler fedeeacup former s last night, they said that is not the way they work. neil: an earning o agency can on do stuff without checking with mother ship. which is washington. >> rigand we know that there are systems, that if something is late it flags it couldsumer advisers see it, it goes up the chain, there are reminders if something is later on overdue, there is no way there was a year and a half long miscommunication or 3 yearser where everybody thought everyone else was working on it. >> you know, when your group was fingered in all of that. asking all sorts of added questions, and forms and delays, how was it presented to you. when that was going on, how was it explained? >> well, for a large number of groups, nothing was explained. there was no contact. and when people had their attorneys contact the irs, they never heard back from the irs. as far as tea party p

, cincinnati's irs office. we have deposed some of the cincinnati folks pointed the finger up. in fact, identifying individuals who really set up this whole process that was so objectionable. >> congressman cumming said a veteran irs manager in cincinnati who described himself as a conservative republican said and he a colleague decided to give conservative groups extra scrutiny? true or false? >> he asked washington what to do with an application. a tea party or conservative group. and you had washington directing, asking for more only cakeses, taking information from those applicants, going after applicants, we are deposing people who were involved again in cincinnati. i have some of the testimony i brought tonight. they point the finger back at specific people in washington. that's where we're going next, to fin od out who demanded what? >> a copy from congressman cummings to congressman issa, and he says he asked that the committee release publicly the transcripts and make limited redactions to protect indi

my sources in cincinnati say they are, employees in the cincinnati office are incredibly upset with cindy thomas which is the top woman in cincinnati for not defending them against the claims of people like lois lerner and like former commissioner doug shulman and steven miller that there were rogue agents in cincinnati. >> megyn: they know they weren't rogue and they were doing what they were told to do. and you reference the house oversight committee, one woman came out and said, i was essentially a front person. i had no autonomy to act on applications without carter hull's influence or input. she puts it squarely on him. the folks are being thrown under the bus don't appear to be that comfortable? >> and he went on to say she looked for a job in 2010 because she was so uncomfortable what she was being told to do from people in washington. the other thing that is important is to take a step back, carter hull is not a rogue agents. he was worn of the few lawyers that was charged with providing guidance and as national review has reported, these lawyers in washington were rubber-stamping

and then the agent you're talking about who is slightly higher in that cincinnati office sort of made the same point. and he did say i tried to get out of there. i thought something inappropriate, i was looking for a different job and he said and i quote "i mean rogue agent? even though i was taking all my direction from eo technical, which from the flowchart we believe is in washington, i didn't want my name in the paper for being this rogue agent for a project i had no control over." are you finding any contrary evidence to this? do you look at this with at least some sort of jaundice saying could it have come out of that office? >> well, of course we do. one of the challenges is these folks cannot get a pass by saying i was ordered to do it, because ethically they clearly knew this was wrong. they should have become whistleblowers. they should have done something on behalf of the american people. the culture at the irs when we're done, when the reorganizations and changes are made, have to do two things. they have to have checks and balances, but they also have to have that individ

and you get little excerpts and it's hard to judge what's going on, but again from the irs from the cincinnati office. the investigator said so is it your perspective that ultimately the responsible parties for the decisions reported by the i.g, that is the decision that target tea party and patriot applications, are not in the cincinnati office? the employee says i don't know how to answer that question. i mean, from an agent standpoint, we didn't do anything wrong. we followed directions based on other people telling us what to do. investigator, and you ultimately followed directions from washington, is that correct? the employee, if direction had come down from washington, yes. the investigator, but with respect to the particular scrutiny that was given to tea party applications, those directions emanated from washington, is that right? the employee answers, i believe so. it's totally not definitive. >> that one isn't. >> right. >> but i will tell you, one of the agents asked for and got a transfer because that person was so uncomfortable that they wanted out of it. >> right. >> and they've

i've beach and aged in cincinnati. when i inquired as to why my application was taking so long, he said we had been waiting from guidance from our superiors as to your organization and similar organizations. we have received that guidance and you will receive your answer on a first in and first out basis. and not c4 like other organizations today, we share ideas. we reject expansion of the state beyond his legitimate authority and we dallas regard human liberty. i respectfully it is a co-equal branch of the federal government invested with the authority to the power of the executive branch. i asked you act with courage and more resolve. my time was running low. >> you can conclude. >> i ask that you check the power of the executive branch. you will protect and defend human liberty for ourselves and our posterity. >> our next witness is the founder and president of the lawrence county tea party in south carolina. you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for having me today. i am the president of the lawrence co

the agent said he was angry when lois lerner was scapegoating cincinnati, quote, i was furious. it looked like lois lerner put it op us. she pled the fifth in the hearing after trying to defend herself. the transcript and interviews contradict the initial narrative targeting a couple agents in cincinnati going rogue. lou? lou: thank you. meanwhile, attorney general eric holder's role in the targeting of journalists in the leak investigations, the principle topic at a hearing held by the senate appropriations subcommittee. the attorney general forced to defend his department's abuse of the first amendment leading to an admission that changes need to be made. fox news correspondent shannon breen with the report. >> i hope you agree the american people deserve an attorney general completely focused on the fair, impartial judgment of the law of justice and not distracted by controversies of his own making. reporter: eric holder took heat from both sides of the hill today, tough questions from senators as long as a new demand from house republicans that rehurricane to the hill on jun

we have known it came from cincinnati but cincinnati is pointing their finger at d.c., some lawyer didn't come up with this on their own? what do you think did it? >> what i think happened, congress is the up this weird situation in which we allow political groups to spend on elections with secret donor lists and we tell the irs you make sure they are not partisan organizations. so i think what it seems like so far to me is that somebody whether in washington or cincinnati or wherever in the irs got in their head, okay, here is how we're going to figure out who is partisan. does it say tea party let's give them an extra check. >> eric: we agree on the details. woo who came up with the details? >> let me say one thing which is if what we find out in the end that they applied this scrutiny to the tea party and to a whole bunch of other groups, i think that situation is very different than if the irs itself is being partisan. if the irs turns out to be partisan, i think that is a huge problem. >>> it's the president's version of accountability. >> eric: there are no liberal groups that were

this is not a case of rogue agents in cincinnati acting out of turn. they were waiting for guidance from d.c. there is not a smoking gun. it doesn't point fingers outside the irs. but holly paz said it did go up the food chain. martha: and it corroborates what we heard from if the folks in cincinnati. they said their jaws dropped opened when they heard what lois lerner was saying. >> reporter: we are waiting for the president. the administration is saying it's under congressional investigation so they are not saying anything. martha: the president said it will not stand and wouldn't be tolerated. we'll see what goes on with this investigation. we'll see you later. bill: the white house chief of staff grilled over the history of the government surveillance programs. >> let me just get on the record. does the president feel he has violated the five i of any american. >> he does not. you feel that has been taken care of? >> ronald reagan used to say, trust but verify. but it seems the government may be asking us to trust it but they can't verify why we ou

but we have found a cancer someplace in cincinnati. and we have to find out what caused this so that no americans would be subject to the type of discrimination that some of you, and many others who are not here, have suffered. and we have to make certain that it doesn't happen again, but even more important, to try to find out just how many people were contaminated by the presence of those people that has done this to our country. that i think you would agree we have to find criminal intent. we don't know how anyone could do something like this and just think it was in the ordinary course of business. but i as a former federal prosecutor, and you as a doctor and a lawyer and a former clerk to a member of the united states supreme court knows that, i've been trying to get this same information that you spoke of in your testimony, and they said this is all being investigated, and you know, it could lead to a grand jury inquiry. and i think that if you and i kept in touch with each other i would be satisfied with you following whether or

did it originate in cincinnati and don't happen in cincinnati? is a go in deeper, can you tell that you? >> what i think is important to understand -- >> i'm running out of time but did you know -- >> there were individuals, here's the point, i need to make this point of the individual that supervises the cincinnati office sat in washington, d.c. >> i understand and address know you don't know yet whether it is just in cincinnati? >> we don't know the and. if you wanted to expand i could but -- >> i don't have the time. >> i don't know the definitive answer to the question. >> is any doubt in your mind that it doesn't lead to back farther speak as i don't understand the question. >> is it just cincinnati or does it come towards washington? how high does it go? >> i was about to say the people in washington, d.c., in particular for example, the position of director rulings and agreement which is in my -- >> okay so could go further. >> there are five levels but needs the commissioners office but they're involved in these activities and the office

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even the ones that work on a case by case basis with people in cincinnati who are not tax lawyers. so when a troublesome case comes up, a tricky case, a case ha has law questions, they go to cincinnati -- i'm sorry, to the lawyers in washington. that's what that technical eo unit you were talking about earlier is all about. we do have this heavy handed indication of washington, d.c. washington. >> sleazy intonation that suggests in the war movies, call berlin like there's some sort of washington or hollywood. in this case, it doesn't mean washington generally. it means their head office. >> that's right. look, we've seen the selective release of transcripts. when i see them at first i think there's something there. you go back and look at the fuller transcript that was released after that. and the picture is a lot more muddy and suggests a person in cincinnati consulting account lawyers in washington. what does this mean and then the lawyers in washington saying can you send us a couple of those cases so we can look at them. that doesn't mean something wrong didn't happen here. it

what a supervisor in washington -- not cincinnati -- just admitted to. >>brian: then miss utah did not win miss u.s.a. pageant. maybe this answer had something to do with it. >> i think especially the men are seen as the leaders, so we need to try to figure out how to create education better so that we can solve this problem. thank you. >>brian: miss south carolina called and said that didn't make any sense. "fox & friends" starts, i believe, now. ♪ ♪ >>brian: i feel bad for her. you're on stage. the world is watching. our world is watching. >> how would you like to be on national television and screw up your words. >>brian: that never happens to me.

instructed employees in cincinnati. and some low level employees are speaking out, it wasn't us in cincinnati, it was people like carter hull in washington. elizabeth in cincinnati, very angry. she says she contacted washington after she started receiving tea party cases more than three years ago. she got instructions from d.c. on how to handle them. it is moving up the food chain. check the big board. we've turned around. we were down 20 and now we're up nearly 20. 14, 977 to be precise. time is money and 30 seconds of what else we've got for you, some offbeat investments. state governments want to buy your life insurance policy before you die to cover your medicare costs. we'll talk to a man in that line of business, but he competes with the government. how about opening up a big storage unit, bidding on everything inside. without exactly knowing what's in there and finding hidden treasure. we'll talk to two stores of storage wars. you've seen that? want to get in on samsung rise on apple? you can't buy the stock. cha

the irs was saying it's alln, i cincinnati. what's soç bizarre, sean, i hae letters on two cases, two offices in california and one out of washington, d.c., signedd by a tax law specialist. this whole low-level rogue agene narrative that's white house came out was factuallymeth incorrect. let me reinforce something that cleta just said which is critical here.ctor the inspector general alluded to this. the agents themselves, those ine the determinations unit, had no real concept of what the law thrills and how it's applied. you know what, none of these groups have been denied.y h what they've done is granted some and put some in what i cali terminal limbo here, where they're not doing anything. we had months, i mean six and nine months, where there wasnse response for the irs.ex that'scu inexcusable. we now have a much better idea why, because washington was dictating the terms of this. the cincinnati office is the largest office for tax exemptce processing. when i was in the office of chief counsel for the irs, we represented

the irs was saying it's alln, i cincinnati. what's soç bizarre, sean, i hae letters on two cases, two offices in california and one out of washington, d.c., signedd by a tax law specialist. this whole low-level rogue agene narrative that's white house came out was factuallymeth incorrect. let me reinforce something that cleta just said which is critical here.ctor the inspector general alluded to this. the agents themselves, those ine the determinations unit, had no real concept of what the law thrills and how it's applied. you know what, none of these groups have been denied.y h what they've done is granted some and put some in what i cali terminal limbo here, where they're not doing anything. we had months, i mean six and nine months, where there wasnse response for the irs.ex that'scu inexcusable. we now have a much better idea why, because washington was dictating the terms of this. the cincinnati office is the largest office for tax exemptce processing. when i was in the office of chief counsel for the irs, we represented