>> vice chair terman, i don't know that it is -- i would have to take a look and compare the first three quarters of 2012 with the first three quarters of 2013 and let you know. it kinda goes up and down and when -- as i understand chief's policy and certainly chief antonio can advise, when someone is us stained for failure to collect traffic stop data the first time it's an admonishment and then if it's more than once, then the discipline progresses and one officer who refused to collect traffic stop data and stated that in that officers interview with the occ, that that officer did have time to do it, that officer was suspended. >> yeah. i understand the progressive discipline we have in place, but i want to -- i guess i'd like to hear more information on those comparisons between 2012 and 2013, the first three quarters, 'cause i'd like to know the affect to have this, and discuss what we need to do about it, if anything. >> yes. and i will provide you with that information and i look forward to meeting with you to discuss alternatives for the budget. thank you. >> commissioner chan. >

thank you director. >> thank you, commissioner terman. >> i would like to say we cover as a commission a great many items. i am, by and large, proud of the work we do here, but we don't do it alone. we do it with great support and help of the commission staff and sometimes we need to take time and recognize the commission staff for the little events that happen in their life. little ones, as well as large events and today i'd like to wish a happy birthday to risa tom. i know today is her birthday and... >> happy birthday. are we going to sing? >> she is a tremendous resource to the commission and we could not do our work without you. i know it's hard to put up with john, but you're doing a good job. >> we won't ask you which year. >> this is not to despair the talent in commission secretaries, but risa's always here. if i may ask, just so i can get these dates straight, so it looks like -- i pulled the calendar out. we're dark the 20th and 27th and we're on the 4th and 11th dark 18th and 25th and will assume the first week of january also. >> for the new year? >> yes, january 1. >> two

>> vice president terman. >> i. >> commissioner chan. >> i. >> commissioner kingsly. >> i. >> commissioner marshall. >> i. >> motion passes unanimously. >> that concludes this matter. the findings are adopted. thank you very much. >> next item mr. secretary. >> that will be a closed session item mr. vice president, next, 6b. >> commissioners, as there are not really any matters and we have already engaged in some closed session activity, i would say that we put this one off until the next meeting. is that okay? >> yes. >> i'm fine with that, sir. >> vote -- the next item please. >> item seven, vote to elect whether to disclose any or all discussion on item six held in code session . >> move on non disclosure. >> second. >> can we do that or need role call? all in favor? >> i. >> we don't need role call. >> closed. the next item please. >> item eight adjournment. >> so moved. >> second. >> we're adjourned. thank you.

. >> thank you, before we move to this matter, there's a question for commissioner terman [inaudible]. >> can we -- if we have calendared a matter in closed session, can we move it to an open session? are we free to do that? >> it's an agenda problem, notice to the public. >> just the other way around, we can't go the other way. >> that's what we're asking. >> commissioners, it's optional. it talks about agenda item four and five on whether to hold this in closed session so that part of the notice to the public and as a matter of course, personnel matters are calendared in closed session because of the presumption of confidentiality that the officer involved always has the /opg of waving that confidentiality, that's the officers choice so they have a right under law to have it in open session. in this case you may go ahead and have the hearing on the proposed findings in open session. the commission would still have the option, if it chooses to do its deliberations in closed session on its part of the adoption of the findings. >> the reason i brought that up is because i was making su

>> vice chair terman, i don't know that it is -- i would have to take a look and compare the first three quarters of 2012 with the first three quarters of 2013 and let you know. it kinda goes up and down and when -- as i understand chief's policy and certainly chief antonio can advise, when someone is us stained for