he just got compared to vladimir putin. [laughter] putin should be compared to bernie made off for somebody like that. who do you punish? clicks ok, i think we will go to the audience. clicks the audience will bring us back. a microphone because this is being broadcast. .lease identify yourself we will take three at a time. .et's start at the back maybe here, and maybe here, and then -- yes. >> thank you. i'm from jpmorgan chase. we have several meetings coming before the baltic summit and the nato summit. all of those could have good conversations on russia. what do you expect out of those meetings? >> ok, good. and maybe here. is, when we had a war, people usually don't believe their own government. elaborate onou can feel about their own values, whether moral values, or values against another country [indiscernible] where you have to say foreign policy is usually obligatory. >> thank you. >> i'm derek mitchell and i write the mitchell report. i want to push a little bit on something dr. gaddy said at the outset. essentia

. >> look at putin and yahu. they are both popular in their country. >> i'm talking worldwide. >> that's short term popularity. >> i don't agree it is short term. putin is very popular in russia. he is a strong leader. and he articulates everything he wants to do. he has great appeal to the russian people. >> did you see the picture of his daughter? she is in amsterdam because of this flight and getting remains. she's gotten quite a bit of publicity. >> she is an attractive young lady. >> that's in the national interest. >> you think her father is ugly? >> no. he is not as pretty as she is. >> when we come back secretary of state john kerry takes a pummeling in tsrhe iaeli press. i'm a teacher. let me tell you what i make... i make learning a privilege. not a chore. and frustration a tool. not an obstacle. i make working hard seem easy. and giving up impossible. i make an old subject feel like a fresh thought. and unconventional methods common. i'm a teacher. i make more. >>> issue two. kerry's critic. >> make no

i would hope and it is hard to do that we go find a way to isolate putin and the putin regime without completely turning our backs on russia's future. >> just to distance myself from two secretaries of state in this respect. i always like the definition of diplomacy is saying something "nice doggy" until you can find a rock. [laughter] i think putin -- the thing to remember is putin could remain president of russia until 2024. he is playing a long game. and i think we need a long game. i agree with everything in terms of reaction, short term. condi and madeleine have described. i would provide lethal weapons but with a heavy emphasis on those that are largely seen as defensive rather than an offense if capability. sometimes that is a thin line. -- iember the long game remember in 2008, condi and i realizing how much intelligence we were getting on how extensive russian black ops were in central asia and so on trying to stir up anti-americanism. this is not something that just started six months or a year ago. and i think what we need to do is not only strengthen nato's military presen

: the imperial putin." david remnick with us. when michael mccaul came, putin took him on. >> his political career was all about democracy building. he was a democratize her. -- democratizer. he thought he was going to be continuing the reset. just as things turned to the worse and he became a target of putin's program from day one. >> i questioned hillary clinton about the reset to russia. when medvedev was there, the reset really took place. >> it was better. it was far from perfect. there were many issues and we were still at loggerheads with russia, but it was a heck of a lot better when medvedev was there. there was no way on the world that putin agreed with medvedev's decision to not veto the nato incursion into libya. >> thank you for coming. >> david remnick from "new yorker" magazine. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪ >> idina menzel is here. she's a tony award winning actress best known for her powerful voice. she was part of the original run on broadway of "rent" and "wicked." "let it go" from

how far will vladimir putin go. can president obama and the allies get him to back down. >>> plus a new era on "meet the press." a revealing look at chuck todd from those who know him best. >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press." >> good morning. two major military flash points this sunday, both with strong consequences for the u.s. after fierce fighting iraqi troops have reached a town in northern iraq that was under siege by isis militants. overnight u.s. launched strikes against isis fighters near the town and dropped humanitarian aid. an estimated 15,000 people have been trapped in the siege. >>> the ukraine crisis, european union giving russian ultimate mate im. change course in one week or face tougher sanctions. this morning a defiant president putin calling for talks on state hood for eastern ukraine and saying it is impossible to predict when the crisis will he said. how should president obama respond to both crisis. i'm joined by dianne feinstein, chair of the intelligence comm

the question is whether it's bad bad bad bad putin no shirt on bad putin on a horse no shirt on putin bad or whether that's a more realistic picture where russia feels that its national interests had been infringed upon and are still being infringed upon if you look back to when the berlin wall fell just twenty five years ago there was an incredibly potent chance for peace throughout europe from portugal to the year olds got a bit show off and shevardnadze the foreign minister were in power. h. w. bush promised that in return for the quid the reunification of germany the quote would be nato would not move one inch eastward toward the soviet union fast forward fast forward to two thousand and seven there had been ten new nato members created all to the east of germany ok now you have two thousand and seven putin is allowed to make a major speech at the munich security conference he we versus the ration of doctrine which was incidentally responsible for the invasion of czechoslovakia exactly in one nine hundred sixty eight on this day he reverses that and he warns look you have to take

vladimir putin has been doing 150% of that. he thinks that the more he's anti-western, the more he can unite russia around him, and therefore the longer he can stay in power. >> what do you make of the relationship between the u.s. and russia? are we at cold war levels. >> wr at a post cold -- we are at a post cold war lows. when you thip think the relationship can't get worse, it does. we have sanctions imposed by the united states and russia, the irony is that the sanctions imposed by russia, on the recent food band is more damaging to russia than the west. we have reached a new post cold car low and things don't seem to turn up at all. >> why is the relationship important. what is american center. >> america has interest in working about russia, and solving the issue. it was mentioned in iran and north korea. we have, since the collapse. scoounion worked with russia to address the issues. that is an porp thing that tried to bring russia and the united states together. the other, of course, is that the united states has stron

putin, operative in the kremlin. and i believe that that is coming out early next year in a new edition with new added chapters so it's reason for you all to go to amazon a second time. there's i believe quite a lot of new material added. over the last few months for a second edition which will be available soon. so we're going to open up with a conversation with the panel and after an hour questions from the audience. we do have a hashtag on twitter if you want to use your phones to tweet about the event and the hashtag is #russiaukraine. so please tweet away. ukraine. , with russiayou breaking bad over the last few months, what does that mean for the international order and international cooperation? busince there are three a -- three of us, let me reiterate my appreciation for my counterpart and the terrific work that brookings has done over the years. it has a particular contribution to make as a result of the carnegie moscow center. a lot of us rely on what comes out of that building in this building. i will mak

now vladimir putin is coming back. and i think syria, ukraine, they are all part of a piece, which is to reestablish a russian identity rooted in a great power identity. and it has a view. there is an interesting tome that was written from somebody that i have a lot of respect, who was the russian defense minister at one point, somebody i've dealt with who i felt was one of my best persons in the russian government. it is a wrong piece about how whether russia is neither western or eastern. russia is unique. it says that russia should not give way to western values like tolerance and multiculturalism which weaken russia. this is re-creating a view of what russia is, what russian identity is, and how it relates to russia's great power role. and this is russia the third version. and that's why i thought he wrote the op-ed that he did. it was a kind of manifesto for a russian future that he feels. just to close, a good friend of mine, a russian, said, "you americans with your support for democracy and your national endowm

prevented him from coming to president putin and then both agreeing oaxaca to president putin and both agreeing to a compromise over the ukraine on the crime in ukraine is really a child of the crime in president putin was so successful in the crimea that he started to get ambitious and look towards the ukraine and if obama had stalled that by reaching an overriding agreement saying ok we'll we'll play cooler on the crimea you take the crimea and we'll pay for. but you play fair on the ukraine i think a compromise responsible but obama failed to see that and then he magnified it even more afraid to fight russia with soldiers on the ground he tried to institute sanctions and that exposed because the european union does almost ten times the trade with russia that the united states does six hundred forty billion a year and that exposed dangerous splits within nato particularly germany and we've now got winter coming on. and germany has only as forty percent of its total energy imported from russia so i think obama has landed us in a very weak position and it's going to be very difficult f

putin is saying come on. >> if putin wanted eastern ukraine, he could have marched in and taken it. he doesn't want it. i think he would like to win a victory there, but he doesn't want to annex this part of it. >> he is annexing it under the surface. >> if he walked in and took it, this problem would be over. >> he is laying the ground work. mortimer, can you speak to that? >> you speak to politicians in eastern europe. they see this as a covert invasion. >> broke away from moldova. he doesn't have a common border with them. >> he can reach it covertly. with the pretense we haven't invaded. >> with everything going on, this goes down to moldova. >> wait a minute. are you ridiculing moldova? try their honey. try their honey. next question. western diplomacy with putin has been premised on bringing him back from the fringes if you will. is that working? >> i think it is going to work because i don't believe he wants to annex. i think he wants the sanctions lifted. ultimately, he doesn't see his future with china, but with the west. >> quickly. >> i think they will work the sanctions

putin. obviously there wasn't enough of a response to deter him in in crimea but from directly intervening in ukraine. now, will it stop mr. putin from intervening if he believes it's. >> russia's absolutely interest to intervene? i don't think so. i think mr. putin, as he has shown with the food bans will simply assume russia will make the sacrifice in order for russia to maintain an international military power. but i think the goal of the sanctions has been to at least show russia and to show mr. putin that there are costs to his actions. >>. >> ms. khrushcheva, you wanted to add? >> i agree. i think russian sanctions wouldhe hurt russia much more than they would hurt the united states or europe for that matter. i think that's where putin is actually hedging his bets because he's deciding that, yes, russia would have -- russians would have to sacrifice russia's index, russia's sticking to the west and his ideas that maybe russia will not become another super power but it positive prevent

what's putin really up to? theodore who advises the kremlin on defense matters, said putin has no grand strategy to resurrect the soviet union. >> the former soviet space should be recognized by the rest as a zone of special interest and exclusive rights for russia. >> reporter: for putin, ukraine is a red zone within that space, though he still denies russia plays any role in the war there. putin's unpredictability has made relations with the u.s. already at a post cold war low, even more straining with putin resists all efforts by obama and the west to reign him in over ukraine. in june obama told nbc's brian williams he and putin spoke, quote, repeatedly. >> we have generally a business-like relationship and are very candid and blunt with each other. >> reporter: according to kremlin phone records confirmed by the white house, the two have spoken just ten times, dismissing boots on the ground in ukraine, the president says targeted sanctions have hurt the russian economy and putin, even if he doesn't admit i

putin. thank you both very much. >>> well, the dispute between nato and russia is playing out on twitter. canada's nato delegation tweeted this tongue and cheek with a message. russia geography can be tough. here is a guy with russian soldiers who keep getting lost. crimea is on the map, not russia. russia tweeted their own map saying helping our canadian colleagues to catch up with contemporary geography of europe. canada and much of the western world do not recognize russia's annexation of crimea. raise the terror alert level. up next, we go to london to find out why authorities are so concerned and why now. plus, as isis fighters gain more ground, what u.s. military planners may have in store. stay with us. for our call center. i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. [ female announcer ] need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 30 of the web's leading job boards with a single click; then simply select the best candidates from one eas

they work in tandem to sustain putin's popularity. orbin has followed in putin's footsteps, he's limited individual rights, speaking in nationalist terms about ethnic hungarians everywhere and muzzling the free press. if you look around the world there are others who have embraced core elements of putinism. turkey has veered away from the reformist agenda to one that is more socially conservative, islamist and hully nationalistic. many are openly admiring what he stands for. the success will depend a great deal on putin and russia under him. if he triumphs in ukraine turning it into a basket case that comes begging to moscow, he will look like a winner. if, on the other hand, ukraine succeeds outside of russia's orbit, leaders mike regret having cast their lot with a globally isolated petro state. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my washington post column. >>> next on "gps" poland's prime minister. honey, look i got one to land. uh-huh. (vo) there's good more... honey, look at all these smart rewards points verizon just gave me.

both of those, putin has essentially thrown aside. and so what the europeans and we for a long time felt was a matter settled at the end of the cold war is now very much back on the table. i think putin has two goals. i do not know that he is delusional. maybe because we both came from the spy business. he and i had a very interesting relationship. we did not like each other, but there was a certain interesting respect. or suspicion. i am not sure which. [laughter] we would speak very frankly with one another. partly because i was not a diplomat. neither was he. but i think he is after two things. one is what condi alluded to, this sense of historical mission to protect the russians who were left behind. the second is more traditional russian behavior. and that is the re-creation of a band of states on the periphery of russia that lean toward moscow economically, politically, and for security. he does not want to re-create the soviet union and be this possible for the economic basket cases on the periphery. but he does want to re-crea

putin wins he comes back once he wins election, and essentially crushes them. makes his political lot with an entirely different group he says my lot is now with the conservative majority what nixon called the silent majority. this noisy pain in the neck, dares to go on the street, he insults them, berates them on television, turns on them completely and he starts to develop opportunistically an ideology he never voiced fully before, moral conservativism, much closer to the church his allies politically have always been the security branches, so he is a much more hard core anti western,xeno phobic, anti putin that he was. without suggesting in 2006 he was some elizabeth moran. >> so therefore he decides then oil prices come down? >> oil prices you know the prices have come down everywhere but part of the problem is that the economy has never been really fully reformed, and also there is a cleptocrasy in place. people steal and the level of corruption in russia is enormous beginning with the kremlin. >> all the countries nationalized are in private hands. >> sti

putin will crawl himself -- crawl the way back, i don't know. the president must be calculated there won't be terrible consequences that europe will understand, or at least exceed to what he is trying to do, as it did with crimea. >> and that is exactly right. in fact, if we look at the seances, with russian oil companies, in the arctic, and norwegian, that oil ises have a project with rush are sha. even until a few days ago, ukrainian factories were sending military parts to russia. at the requests to lose the jobs. the trade delegations so to sigh that putin has been isolated, politically, or economically, i think is not exactly correct, while -- and he is counting i think that this is like you mention as short term deal and as soon as the dust settles things will go back to normal. as of right now, it does look like business as usual. >> but isn't there something different? not just rattling the sabers, suspect there something different, about shelling a border station, and rolling two armed collums over a recognized international boarder? if

>> the answer is, putin is trapped by his own propaganda. >> vladmir putin created this monster, which people are very fond of in russia. he controls russian tv and what goes on russian tv of not seeing ukraine. every day, for 12 hours a day, russians have been told that ukraine is now run by the nazis. that a third of the shots in kiev are there. >> why can't he stop? heaven forbid, vladmir putin would say, i'm wrong and cease what he began there in ukraine? what's wrong with that? >> because, nazi ukraine, has putin has framed it for the russian people, was starting to win. it looked like putin's rebels were going to lose donetsk and luhansk. he can't lose those cities to the nazi party, can he? that's why he has to react. if the ukrainians would take the areas, the nazis would take the areas. >> if he sees ukraine as nazi ukraine, why is he out with all the cameras for him to see shaking the ukrainian president's hand just a couple of days ago? you have written a book on this man. you and i have talked before about putin's alone time and swimming and what he likes to eat. take me in

i would hope and it is hard to do that we go find a way to isolate putin and the putin regime without completely turning our backs on russia's future. >> just to distance myself from two secretaries of state in this respect. i always like the definition of diplomacy is saying something "nice doggy" until you can find a rock. [laughter] i think putin -- the thing to remember is putin could remain president of russia until 2024. he is playing a long game. and i think we need a long game. i agree with everything in terms of reaction, short term. condi and madeleine have described. i would provide lethal weapons but with a heavy emphasis on those that are largely seen as defensive rather than an offense if capability. sometimes that is a thin line. i remember the long game -- i remember in 2008, condi and i realizing how much intelligence we were getting on how extensive russian black ops were in central asia and so on trying to stir up anti-americanism. this is not something that just started six months or a year ago. and i think what we need to do is not only strengthen nato's military

and as far as vladimir putin is concerned put strong sanctions vladimir putin's viewpoint major he has done pretty well with minimum personality and as long as the europeans are dependent on his energy supplies they are not going to do much. >> senator, i have talk to people at the white house say the last thing that region needs the more weapons that is making the situation worse. you disagree. why do you believe the introduction of u.s. weapons would make a difference on the ground in eastern uh explain. >> for god's sake can't we help these people defend themselves? this is not an incursion. this is an invasion. >> has there been an act of war committed by russia against ukraine? >> i think from the ukrainian standpoint you would say that. he is accomplishing a land bridge all the way to crimea and ahe may threaten moldova and the balance ticks if he continue to succeed when you say she a quote, unquote war it is a conflict that requires our participation, not through american ground troops but our participation, our help and our leadership, and that is what seems to be mysing. >> l

what is vladimir putin up to? the surveillance team asked michael rubin, the author of "dancing with the devil." >> he probes for weakness and if he doesn't think the west is serious, he will act and retrench and that is what we are seeing on the borders of ukraine right now. >> let me bring in the morning must-read from your article written in "world affairs." you said the idea that diplomacy regimes -- is the problem with russia right now that russia is a rogue regime but washington and europe have not caught up to that fact? >> increasingly, russia is a rogue regime. i took the definition of clinton's national security advisor tony lake who talked of a rogue regime being a state which does not abide by the norms of diplomacy and that's exactly what vladimir putin is doing. it is really evident that the west is not caught onto this. we still think we can appease him and he is banging is banging us over the head with the evidence that that strategy does not work. >> from your article, i'm having trouble understan

that is what putin did in u krab. first he was sending over the anti-aircraft guns over flight 17 and he was sending over more and more russian troops not in uniform to work with the rebels as these fake, ukrainian separatist rebels and about two weeks ago he started sending in self-propelled artillery and now we have russian t-72 tanks moving across the border and russian troops moving across the border and there was no single moment of an invasion because putin knows that european public, they don't care that much about ukraine so there is not a big, terrifying moment. >> the argument president obama made is that this has been bad for russia. that the punishment for russia is one that russia is inflicting on himself and why do you think it's in his interest is. >> there are two schools of thought on this. this is a deliberate strategy by putin where he is trying to annex eastern ukraine or ferment permanent chaos there because he will will always have russian claws in ukraine and it won't slip away to the west which

putin can do anything he wants. and in my opinion, and my prediction, that's his ultimate objective is to destabilize and potentially destroy the credibility of nato. >> bill, appreciate the thoughts this hour. troubling, and of course, one of the reasons why we've seen such unsettled markets here as people try to make sense of it. we'll leave it there. bill browder, senior with hermitage capital joining us this afternoon. >>> all right, kelly, we have 18 minutes before the closing bell. the dow, s&p and nasdaq moving up a little bit, dow by 19 points. >> we are moving a little bit lower. >>> up next, moving out. why some u.s. oil companies are vacating parts of the middle east. our jackie deangelis has a special report. >>> and later, back to school. single parents may face the toughest college tuition challenge of all, and in some cases, it's affecting their retirement savings. we'll help navigate that particular mine field after this. ♪ ♪ over 1.2 billion eyeballs are on us during the two weeks at wimbledon.

you asking if putin goes into ukraine tomorrow the consequences for putin in russia are simply in challenge kab -- incalculable. >> the sanctions are -- >> but they are going to be very disruptive to russia's economy. they're going to continue to pose a problem for putin. he can't get the technology and the financial -- >> he already has -- >> just a second. there are light sanctions. they will be a lot tougher. secondly, he will have a lot of rearmament facing him in nato. third, he's going to have continued resistance in ukraine. you know, ukraine is 45 million people. they're not syria. they're thought a bunch of people saying, hey, come and fight. they're fighting themself. >> why doesn't president arm them. >> they're extremely well armed. that's a former member of the soviet union. they have military equipment up the wazoo. they need night vision goggles and flack jacks. >> why didn't we give them to them six months ago. >> some is on the way, i'm told. could we get more? i'm sure. but, look -- >> the perception is reality in the world and military matters. the perception is we're wea

putin can't be seen handing him over just because the americans ask. so you know, he's kind of fulfilling -- this this is a situation that the u.s. created and putin has kind of playing along with it. >> julia, thank you so much as always. coming up next, a warning from one health minister. the whole world is in danger. what is the centers for disease control doing right now to stop the spread of the deadly ebola virus? plus, the event that led to this conflict in the middle east. the kidnapping and murder of three israeli teenagers. what exactly happened that night? today, i went investigating to try to find out. your 16-year-old daughter studied day and night for her driver's test. secretly inside, you hoped she wouldn't pass. the thought of your baby girl driving around all by herself was... you just weren't ready. but she did pass. 'cause she's your baby girl. and now you're proud. a bundle of nerves proud. but proud. get a discount when you add a newly-licensed teen to your liberty mutual insurance policy. call to learn about our whole range of li

now vladimir putin is coming back. and i think syria, ukraine, they are all part of a piece, which is to reestablish a russian identity rooted in a great power identity. and it has a view. there is an interesting tome that was written from somebody that i have a lot of respect, who was the russian defense minister at one point, somebody i've dealt with who i felt was one of my best interlocuters in the russian government. it is a wrong piece about how whether russia is neither western or eastern. russia is unique. it says that russia should not give way to western values like tolerance and multiculturalism which weaken russia. this is re-creating a view of what russia is, what russian identity is, and how it relates to russia's great power role. and this is russia the third version. and that's why i thought he wrote the op-ed that he did. it was a kind of manifesto for a russian future that he feels. just to close, a good friend of mine, a russian, said, "you americans with your support for democracy and your national

and as far as vladimir putin is concerned put strong sanctions, vladimir putin's viewpoint, major he has done pretty well with minimum personality and as long as the europeans are dependent on his energy supplies they are not going to do much. >> senator, i have talk to people at the white house say the last thing that region needs the more weapons that is making the situation worse. you disagree. why do you believe the introduction of u.s. weapons would make a difference on the ground in eastern uh explain. >> for god's sake can't we help these people defend themselves? this is not an incursion. this is an invasion. >> has there been an act of war committed by russia against ukraine? >> i think from the ukrainian standpoint you would say that. he is accomplishing a land bridge all the way to crimea and ahe may threaten moldova and the balance ticks if he continue to succeed when you say she a quote, unquote war it is a conflict that requires our participation, not through american ground troops, but our participation, our help and our leadership, and that is what seems to be mysing.

but now my guest said putin is stuck. take a listen. >> why can't he just stop, ben, why can't he stop. heaven forbid vladimir putin would say i am wrong and stop what he began in ukraine. but what's wrong with that? >> because nazi ukraine as putin framed it for the russian people was starting to win, and it looked like putin's rebels were going to lose donesque and luhansk. they can't lose those two cities to nazi party, can he? that's why, he is trapped by his propaganda. >> the general went on to say that putin finds himself stuck. even at the cost of full collapse of relations with the west, even with a full scale war. do you agree? >> here is what i would say, brooke. this is something mr. putin cannot afford. he cannot afford to lose. he was being beat in the two provinces where he was attempting to cause chaos against the ukrainian military. now he is trying to create another front against the ukrainian military and maybe create a bridge. he cannot go back to his people and say i lost against an inferior force. >>

what is at stake if putin succeeds? >> well i think what putin ultimately wants a government in kiev that is ulterly compliant with moscow's wishes. in effect a satellite. they don't want ukraine toe join nato. and whatever economic connections ukraine may develop with the european union russia nonetheless would want them subordinate to its dominate economic position and i think he's using military force in the negotiations with poroshenko. but these things have a way of spinning out of control. the german foreign minister today effectively warned of that possibility. and poroshenko himself today said that ukraine and russia were right on the edge of all out war. this is extraordinarily serious. and i know the president is trying to find a strategy to deal with isis in syria. but the world's a complex place. and it requires american leadership to prevent these kinds of hostilities that we are seeing now spreading into something much worse. it is not just ukraine. i think all the countries of central and eastern europe t

>> if putin goes into ukraine tomorrow, the consequences for putin and russia are incal cue -are going to be disruptive to russia's economy they're going to continue to pose a problem for putin. he can't get the technology. secondly, a lot of rearmentment innato. third going to have continued resistance in ukraine. ukraine is 45 million people, they're not syria saying come, fight there. they're extremely well armed a former member of the soviet union. they night night vision googles and intelligence, flight jackets. >> why don't they have them? >> it's time to get that stuff there. some of it is on the way, i'm told could we get more? sure. >> sanctions were weak and the president doesn't have the heart for conflict right now. that could change i hope it does. these are threats. good to see you, general. >> good to be with you. just remember from putin's perspective, he can say whatever he wants about obama or the united states if he crosses that line, and puts his forces overtly into ukraine, for him, the consequences are incalculable. >> we'll have that back if that happens and if i