or if it's about acknowledging -- as owen harding said earlier, we should all be able to participate in the same roles. so your view on whether this is an externally or internally driven development would be very helpful. breen: that's an interesting question. anybody want to take a crack at it? egnell: i can start, perhaps. it is a great question. and it's, you're opening pandora's box here, as well. the short is, it's both. we haven't talked at all about u.n. security council resolution 1325, the u.s. national action plan on women, peace and security, which are -- you could say a more rights based argument that this is the right thing to do. we have to empower women, gender equality et cetera. at the same time, those come from an understanding that the existing order isn't working and that we can improve the way we create peace, development, humanitarian affairs by higher representativeness of women. so even there, it's a combination. operational experience from the last decade is hugely important. we've learned a lot of lessons there. so they all combine. so the way i try to avoid