tom fuentes joining us here in studio -- actually tom, hold on a second. i want to go to deb feyerick. >> we do want to let you know that federal, state and local sources are now telling us here at cnn that in fact yes, richard matt has been shot dead. this was a huge chase and please really believe they were getting much, much closer early today when they said they believed for sure they were in the franklin county area and we also heard from u.s. marshal lenny depaul a few moments ago, at about 1:35 shots were fired at some sort of camper van. it appeared the men may have been trying to carjack that particular camper van. that may have been alerted everybody to their location. now we're being told myself pamela brown, alexandra field that richard matt has been shot and killed. i spoke to someone earlier today, that was really the thinking of how this was going to play out, because one man said if captured these two menu they would die in complete and total isolation and segregation because of this prison escape. >> thank you very much. tom fuentes, forme

tom fuentes, i want to come to you first. as we know now, he said as victor said they're not going to send anybody in there. because they're afraid that the van could be rigged. but they are going to send a robot in. and he mentioned that they're going to be looking at areas around the van first. what happens from this point on? and how long might it take before they get that finished and ket k get in that van to get some of the evidence and to see if the man is even alive? >> i think, christi, it's going to take a while, they're going to be very deliberative with that robot. you know it does have a camera. it does have other sensors on it. it do have arms that can be manipulated. so that will be the first chore to work on the outer part of it. and see if something explodes if something goes off. and then maybe try to use the robot to pull on the door handles or try to get that vehicle opened. and get a look inside. see if they can determine, if the robot is there and it's not attacked it's not causing shots to be fired, then

stand by let me bring in former fbi assistant director tom fuentes. how did they get all the bodies they needed to secure the area before night fall? >> because the county doesn't have a large city or large urban population that means there's not as many police officers to draw on. so they have to come from further away it will take them several hours to get there. it may be dark by the time most of them arrive. they're going to maintain a perimeter, if the individuals are still inside that wooded area inside what will become the full perimeter, which is a big if. then you have these officers arriving they're going to be doing the search it's going to be dark. the local citizens are afraid. it's a difficult situation for everyone. >> do they keep doing it throughout the night, though? >> i don't think they'll go into the woods for the night. they'll try to if they can, establish the perimeter, they'll keep the helicopters with infrared search capabilities in the air, looking for people moving around and probably try to keep the police officers set aro

let me to go tom fuentes first. you'll see this. does it seem like the office here's are beating this guy right now, does it appear they responded appropriately? >> no wolf. that seems excessive just looking at the video. we don't know the whole context. we hear that he was high on methamphetamine. but when they're clubbing somebody like that high or not high. that's just not going to accomplish what you want to do unless you're trying to make him unconscious and figure that's the only way to handle him. and of course that's not the right way to handle him. it appears to be a terrible situation that they're all in trying to subdue him. >> you see him on the ground being held by several police officers. you see one guy basically hitting him over the head and the body. joey jackson, what's your analysis? >> it is as follows. certainly we don't know exactly what occurred. on the face of it it is very troubling. do we believe our lying eyes? the fact is that officers need to use force in certain instances where there is an imnegligency

let's bring in tom fuentes, former fbi assistant director. what do you make of this tom? it's hard to determine -- they are taking it as a very very credible tip. >> right. i think now you have a very afraid public now because of hearing these reports that these two killers could be there. darkness is approaching soon and you know all the police that they're going to need are not there yet, they are en route. i think members of the public there are going to be very concerned about what could happen if these guys are really here will they pick my house to invade and seek shelter and look for weapons, food vehicle. which is very possible. they could look at somebody's house and do a house invasion. >> what do they do when night falls? >> i think what they're doing. they just hunker down and if they see something, get on the phone and call the police immediately. don't go outside. don't go out and pursue somebody or yell out is that you or who are you? any of those things. >> i really meant authorities. what do the authorities do when night falls? you were telling me earlier

to you, tom fuentes. the weather, there's supposed to be a thunderstorm. what does that do? >> it slows down the officers out there, and i wouldn't expect them to do any search in the wooded area. i think the main concentration now would be to get the parameter up and established and hope they did not get out of it as john anderson just mentioned, they had a long time to have moved on since 1:30 this afternoon, so that will be the priority to get the parameter and everybody set and the planning going into the grid searches they will start doing in the morning, probably. >> rick, why sit so hard to catch these guys? i know it sounds like a simple question, but never before have escaped prisoners been on the land for more than two days? >> that's a great question. these guys obviously are extremely clever, and they have had some luck. but, you see, that's what differentiates how this will end. they have to be lucky with every single decision they make, and every person they trust, and every decision about which way to go and what route to take. law enforcement just has to have

i want to bring in cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes. when you hear device found under police vehicle at hq has detonated, does that suggest to you it detonated on its own like the first explosion this morning, or that it was detonated using one of the robots? >> victor, i would think it detonated on its own because they wouldn't want to destroy a vehicle in the process of setting it off if they could have the robot pull it out or slide it away from that vehicle, you know, so that maybe they could put a container around it or put it in a container to control it. they might have tried to do that but we don't know at this point if it did detonate by itself and they just decided to go with that. but, you know, given now the number of explosive devices that have been found, two have been detonated, the number of shots fired, you know, this does seem to be an attack obviously. but whether it's domestic terrorism or international terrorism, it's essentially taking on the scope of a terrorist incident, taking on the police like this. >> appeare

. >>> let's bring in cnn law enforcement analyst and former fbi assistant director tom fuentes now. tom, one of the big revelations this morning is dylann roof had seven magazines on him when he entered this church. this was a glock 45 model 41, seven magazines. is that easy to conceal? >> normally, no. but if had he a backpack, it would be very easy to conceal that. if you're trying to wear that on a belt or something that would be extremely heavy that many bullets and magazines and plus the gun itself. but if he was, you know, with a backpack, he could easily have that many and even more with him. >> one of the other things we are learning is that, you know, of course, he said that he shot a few people. this is in an interview with investigators. when he was told that he killed nine people, they say he appeared remorseful. do you see that as an act? do you believe it? how do you believe anything from this guy at this point? >> first of all, i tend to not believe -- so many times we have people in custody and the leaks come out. the investigators say the individual said this or tha

let's bring in tom fuentes for us. tom, good morning to you. >> good morning, christie. >> do you think once that surveillance video is released, what questions will it answer? >> well, i think it already answered questions to the members of the community from the clergy and others that saw it to show that the police acted pretty much in self-defense. that he was coming toward them. the individual was not shot in the back. and that's what happened during the confrontation. the police officers and fbi agents were backing up, which indicates that the person was coming toward them. they saw enough to be satisfied. now, christie, i'd like to add this is a classified investigation normally. and very little of this would become public if it hadn't been necessary to use deadly force on rahim. and what the police and fbi are trying to do is maintain the cooperation within that community that they didn't act recklessly, they didn't just gun him down and fall into that whole narrative, which wasn't helped by the brother saying t

it may have been acquired and made its way to dallas. >> we discussed with tom fuentes this morning, another cnn law enforcement analyst, kind of dissecting and taking apart these explosive devices that reportedly either detonated or were found near police headquarters would eventually lead police to a suspect. now having possibly the handle, the screen name on e-bay, could also not -- obviously not lead them to a person, but other purchasing over the last several days and weeks. >> yes, absolutely. scene this is part of the investigation. they don't have their own particular set of finger prints on them, meaning this. how they were designed and developed, all those experts in the field, atf, dallas police bomb squad, everyone is going to play a significant role in tracing that evidence down with the help of federal authorities and local authorities in and around the dallas community. so there's a lot of active investigation that is actually taking place here in the area as we speak. and this is going to continue throughout the night, but this is a very active investigation in dallas

keep in mind also briana i have to agree with tom fuentes. we still don't know whether she's the one that got played in this scenario rather than she coming forward and saying she bowed out of it on her own accord. >> it's a very good point. what do you think we might be finding out at this press conference other than charges reiterated about joyce mitchell? >> i think at this point they're going to place the minimum charge against her just to hold her, to get her locked up. but this could be something that she wanted to initiate anyway. as miguel mentioned, if the community is riled up and blaming her, she might be in danger from more people than just these two killers. that's the other concern that she might have is that especially if they actually take hostages and kill somebody else and she's in the community and she was part of this, her life is in danger as well. >> tom, phil matt stay with us because we are standing by for this news conference on the arrest of joyce mitchell. the prison worker who was involved in the escape of these tw

i'm going to come to tom fuentes. what will his life be like in the foreseeable future? >> as a federal prosecutor i've visited federal prisons. they aren't the nicest place to be. super max is the most difficult, and so his life will be, in my view it's up to the bureau of prisons, of course. i suspect he will be sent there before terre haute. if he ever gets to terre haute. i suspect he'll be in isolation for quite some time. i suspect it will be a very small cell. he will be monitored very very closely. his experience will likely be the worst of the worst in prison. >> by the way, there's very little known about the super max for a reason and there's a lot of criticism about that that we don't know the daily existence and daily routine for a lot of those prisoners. they don't tend to get a lot of the sympathy in terms finding more out about it. but generally speaking his cell block mates are going to be the likes of ted kaczenski, the university bomber and richard reid the shoe bomber and those type of people. he'll likely do 23 hours in a cell with very little stimul

i want to bring in tom fuentes. very good points here. you and i have been discussing this all afternoon. what could we learn from sweat now that he is still alive and how important is that? >> well, first of all, we can learn whether he had any other assistance assistance who was assisting him getting out, was it another corrections officer or a contractor that helped them cut pipes and concrete walls for the escape. was joyce the only plan they had to drive away from the prison once they came up out of the manhole cover. were they going to leave the state, were they going to canada were they going to mexico. did the plan go array and they end up in the woods for three weeks trying to survive, as it appears now may have been the case. particularly back to the original point, are there other people who are guilty at that prison of providing the assistance they got to get out. >> and tom i mean, that was pretty close. you're talking about 2 miles south of the canadian border. is it possible that he might have slipped right between their ha

cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes is joining us now. tom, first of all, if this happened last saturday, why are we just learning about it now? >> i think the problem is we don't know, you know, the exact time they notified the authorities. i think a lot of people around the country may have seen a suspicious pair of people or even just one man meeting one of the descriptions and just thought, you know, there was so much focus in new york, the dogs were on the consent and 800 officers in the woods in the immediate proximity to the prison that a lot of people said it must not be them, they are still in new york. i think in fairness the marshals in particular were stressing all along don't just dismiss a sighting because you think all the focus is on new york. they could still be anywhere. many people from the first day saying they could be anywhere in the united states, canada and mexico for sure. i think now the scent has grown cold in new york and i think more people are likely to be more alert and if they see someone suspicious call it

tom fuentes, former fbi assistant director. still, police looking for a motive in all of this. what could have driven him to do this? luckily, as we said none of the officers were even injured in this ambush. >>> coming up next police just showing our nick valencia some of the remarkable damage to their patrol cars to police headquarters from what unfolded last night. we'll bring you that report from nick. also new documents shedding light on the killing of 12-year-old tamir rice in cleveland. the new details, next. get the complete balanced nutrition of ensure. with nine grams of protein... and 26 vitamins and minerals. and now with... ...twice as much vitamin d ...which up to 90% of people don't get enough of. the sunshine vitamin! ensure. take life in. in the outback bold isn't just a word. it's how we approach everything. hurry in for our new wood-fire grilled flat iron steak. or victoria's filet portabella. starting at just $13.99 for a limited time. we let the bold flavors of the outback. speak for themselves. outback steakhouse. done right. checking out the listing on zi

tom fuentes, to you, is this a situation where you pull your gun? because you see one of this fellow officers sort of as soon as he pulls his gun run up to him and it looks like sort of try to say, hey. >> no i agree, poppy. you know for me to second guess this and you hate to do that when you don't know the whole circumstances, but just from what it shows in the video, it doesn't appear there's any justification to draw that weapon and then having seen the longer version of this i just don't understand you know all of this particular sergeant's actions. he's supposed to be trying to calm this down dial down the emotion and the excitement of the situation, and when you see him running not just with this girl, but running back and forth yelling at various kids swearing at them acting unprofessionally you know when you engage in unprofessional conduct as a police officer, it often results in a backlash where the people will not be cooperative no matter what their age or no matter if they started out maybe intending to be cooperative. i've broke up man

. >> joining us now once again, our law enforcement analyst tom fuentes fuentes, matthew horace who's joining us there he is from new york. retired chief deputy u.s. marshall here with us in washington. matthew, let me start with you, the franklin county sheriff believes these two guys are still operating together they haven't split up based on all the searches that you've conducted, what do you believe? >> it's amazing to me i believe they would be 13r5i9ed by now. if these guys were together they would find their way around. most of the time they would separate, knowing they would be targets. >> if you see two guys walking around people are going to get nervous, much more quickly than if you see an individual right tom? >> well that's true. i think they're still in the mode of needing each other for their own survival if they're trying to get food break into cabins keep a look out for somebody coming toward them it's easier with two people than one. >> matt horace. you heard a prison guard said security was lax. do you think it's possible that tools could have been hidden in this fr

joining us law enforcement analyst, former fbi assistant director tom fuentes, global affairs analyst former army delta force officer retired it lieutenant general james reese and former democratic congresswoman jane harmon now president of the woodrow wilson center here in walk. tom, this is very disturbing the statement from the office of personnel management. it says they have notified approximately 4 million federal workers. their most sensitive, personal information may have been compromised. didn't say chinese hackers but that clearly is the suspicion. what's going on? >> the suspicion, they pick opm because every employee from every government agency has their data there. that's where the records are kept of who's working for the government. across all of the agencies across all the branches. so that recordcentrally kept there, retirement records and can easily go into a group of individuals and destroy their credit ratings. could be used for blackmail, extortion and all kinds of dangerous things because if somebody starts to wreck the pay you're receiving from the federal gove

tom fuentes, thank you for joining us. that's it for "the lead." i will turn it over to wolf blitzer, who will continue with this late-breaking news. \s . >>> happens now, breaking news escapee shot multiple source now say the fugitive rich art matt has been shot and killed. police are now chasing the other escapee david sweat. we're getting new details on the stunning breakthrough. >>> judgment day -- the u.s. supreme court makes history, ruling that same-sex couples must be allowed to get married in all 50 states. the landmark ruling sets off jubilations, but also sharp criticism for some of the justices and some presidential candidates. >>> amazing grace. president obama delivers a stirring eulogy for the pastor of emanuel a.m.e. church who was murdered with eight of his congress. >>> the manhunt there, law enforcement sources now telling cnn one of the inmates, richard matt has been shot hand killed by police. that last report teams are now chasing the other escapee, david sweat. >>> an historic decision sparks a tremendous celebration, the 5-4

tom fuentes, i want to bring you in here and talk about real quickly this possible suspect, this man, through negotiation, who identified himself as james boulware. and we heard the police chief there, police chief brown say he told us we took his child and now he is going to blow us up. it sounds as though -- we may have a motive here to some degree, based on what this one individual is saying. how do they proceed if they know who he is? how does that change their strategy perhaps or the negotiations? >> as they gather intelligence on them and give them clues how to treat this and determine how deranged he might be, or out of control or how insane or to what degree they can negotiate. at this point, they have several advantages in having one several barrel indicateded subject or hostage situations in the past, the police have a tremendous advantage in this situation. if they used an armor piercing shell and probably put a fatal bullet through the engine of the vehicle, they are not going anywhere. they won't shoot the tires out because you can still drive on rims. i'm guessing here t

got to go tom fuentes. thank you very much as always. we appreciate your insights. >>> just ahead, several republican presidential hopefuls they're gathered in iowa. we'll tell you how motorcycles and food are playing a part in today's event. >>> and also today, we honor the men who landed in france and the women who supported them. today the 71st anniversary of "d" day, 160,000 troops landed in norman day. more than 9,000 died. the invasion changed the course of world war ii. you know our new rope has actually passed all the tests. we're ready to start with production. ok, are you doing test markets like last time? uh, no we're going to roll out globally. ok. we'll start working on some financing options right away. thanks, joe. oh, yeah. it's a game-changer for the rock-climbing industry. this is one strong rope! huh joe? oh, yeah it's incredible! how you doing team? jeff you good? [jeff] i think i dropped my keys. [announcer] you work hard to build your company. wells fargo will work right alongside you, bringing the expertise your co

tom fuentes joining us live from washington. tom is also by the way a former fbi assistant director. the officer was surrounded by obviously very upset kids. to hear kids is alarming in and of itself. based on what you can see in that video, does anything seem justified in your view? >> to be honest with with you, no. when i was a straight cop and we would get called this time of year graduation parties, pool party, picnic occasionally things would get out of hand with the attendees. you would do everything to deescalate it to get everybody calmed down break it up. if nobody's hurt there is no serious crime that's already been committed, deescalate it and say, okay go home. it's over. in this case you see the sergeant running around escalating it. to me the final straw is the parts you are showing right here where the girl in the bikini means she is clearly not armed, he is grabbing her by her long hair throwing her down on the ground getting on top of her. i see no justification. maybe there is some explanation. i would love to

that's pretty good. >> lenny depaul tom fuentes, thank you for joining me to talk about this. >>> we have some breaking news. a stunning development in the story about rachel dolezal, she is the leader of the spokane chapter of the naacp whose own family exposed her as a white woman and not an african-american woman that she was portraying herself to be. we now know she is stepping down as president of that chapter. in a statement, dolezal said "please know i will never stop fighting for human rights and will do everything in my power to help and assist whether it means stepping up or stepping down because this is not about me, it's about justice." cnn's stephanie elam joining me on the phone from spokane. stephanie, this was a very sudden development. did this come as a surprise from where you are there in spokane? >> it feels like things were bubbling up over the weekend, brianna. i've been here all weekend long and you could hear people talking about it on the street stores restaurants, people were definitely talking about it. but there was definitely a change. the last thing we k

let's get some answers from cnn law enforcement analyst and former assistant director tom fuentes. tom, when i read this story i thought "shaw shank." guys working year after year after year with a chisel but they have power tools. does this sound like an inside job? >> victor, i think you would say, yes, it sounds like an inside job to get the tools and to have a layout how to get out of that prison and to have someone waiting for them to get them away. it's a well thought out plan obviously. they have a minimum of eight hours from the time they were last seen and a stand-up check friday night until they were discovered missing and by time the authorities get their ability together and start the search, you know, they have a good, eight, ten, 12-hour head start from there. they could have already been in canada by the time people even discovered they were missing. one these two prisoners had escaped from an earlier jail and been found in mexico and brought back to the u.s., so they are not -- they are not averse to leaving the u.s., and, you know, moving on. again, with that much

let's bring in the fbi director tom fuentes. the boston police decided to show this video of the police shooting a police shooting rahim at the bus stop. in attendance will be the black community. why? >> in order to have an affective program, they need the support of the community and they are anxious for the community members to see this video and see that the police had no choice the officer and the agent that fired on rahim had to and their life was being threatened by the giant knife he was wielding and they want people to see this and not listen to somebody else 3,000 miles away. >> "the boston globe" was reporting rahim made threats on social media towards police. what made them decide to move in on this man? >> the joint terrorism task force run by the fbi and 20 other agencies belong to it in the boston area they would be receiving these information broadcasts and jihadi postings going back more than a year where isis has been calling for followers all over the world to behead people. it happened on the streets of londo

>> i would absolutely agree with my colleague tom fuentes, what we don't know is the information they're garnering from speaking to other guards prison guards and others there. i think there's a lot of information out there. and i think it looks right now that these suspects may have compartmentalized her plan as plan "b" or "c" and not plan "a." >>>. >> you also heard jason carroll say they were part of the so-called honor block. i still don't understand why they were part of an honor block after having been convicted of murder. that honor block has now been shut down. your reaction? >> too little too late. listen this whole thing say serious security breach from the moment this was planned to the time these guys escaped. i have to agree with tom, there are other people involved in this that are unknown to us at this time. but law enforcement is running down those leads with those 800 people and 400 leads. >> do you understand why two murderers are put in honor block? do you understand that, tom? >> no, that's why i'm not running the prison. it makes no sense. the other issue matthew is

that's sort of like an anomaly guards trying to help somebody escape. >> matthew fogg tom fuentes, thank you, gentlemen. >> thank you, michael. >>> believe it or not, there are people who are rooting for these bad guys. but why? >> we'll explore the psychology on why some people would side with killers. >>> and the supreme court made history yesterday ruling that same-sex couples must be allowed to marry in all 50 states. the landmark ruling set off celebrations across the country. america's weatherman sam champion and his husband will join me to discuss. so this beauty can be yours with a down payment and 10% financing. oh larry, lawrence. thanks to the tools and help at experian.com, i know i have a 798 fico score. [score alert text sound] [score alert text sound] oh. that's the sound of my interest rate going down. according to this score alert, my fico score just went up to 816. 816. 816! 816! fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. so get your credit swagger on. go to experian.com become a member of experian credit tracker and take charge of your score. when the moment's sp

tom fuentes helping us better appreciate what's going on. >>> up next, the war in iraq has drawn comparisons to another military conflict in america's history. we're talking about the war in vietnam. can we draw lessons from the vietnam war to help us better appreciate the violence in iraq? stay with us. i'm caridee. i've had moderate to severe plaque psoriasis most of my life. but that hasn't stopped me from modeling. my doctor told me about stelara® it helps keep my skin clearer. with only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses... ...stelara® helps me be in season. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. some serious infections require hospitalization. before starting stelara® your doctor should test for tuberculosis. stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection have had cancer, or if you develop any new skin growths. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems including headaches, seizures, confusi

tom fuentes, thanks for your insight insight. i appreciate it. >> kel tonight a deeper look at the manhunt in its third week. >>> still to come are the gop presidential hopefuls taking the easy way out when it comes to the confederate flag or do they need to come out with a stronger stance? we'll talk about that next. can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late. i was gone for five minutes! ugh! move it. you're killing me. you know what, dad? i'm good. (dad) it may be quite a while before he's ready, but our subaru legacy will be waiting for him. (vo) the longest-lasting midsize sedan in its class. the twenty-fifteen subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. you probably know xerox as the company that's all about printing. but did you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll

i want to bring in the former fbi assistant director tom fuentes. he is our cnn law enforcement analyst. your reaction to what pamela is now reporting. >> i think it's one more piece of forensic that makes it more compelling that he was involved in the homicide. that attorney said that he couldn't have possibly left dna on the pizza crust because he doesn't like pizza. i suppose he doesn't like shoes either? >> you're saying there is evidence of the dna on the pizza crust. his lawyer says he doesn't like pizza, he doesn't eat pizza so it couldn't be his dna. >> we're following more breaking news sources telling cnn a man shot and killed by boston police was believed to have been radicalized by isis and had been under 24-hour surveillance in a terror investigation. let's dig deeper on this very disturbing story with our cnn national security commentator, the former congressman mike rogers. he was chairman of the house intelligence committee, and former cia counterterrorism official philip mudd. he is our cnn counterterrorism analyst. phil this terror

tom fuentes, miguel marquez, guys thank you. just ahead, the texas governor rick perry, he's about to launch his second presidential campaign. his wife now speaking to cnn, sharing her reaction to the debate blunder that torpedoed his first run for the white house. doesn't it seem like the wireless world today could use a smile? at cricket wireless, we think so. that's why prices for our plans are all in taxes and fees included. and we've got more 4g lte coverage nationwide than t- mobile or sprint. it's what makes cricket the happiest place in the whole wireless world. ♪ eenie. meenie. miney. go. more adventures await in the seven-passenger lexus gx. see your lexus dealer. super poligrip seals out more food particles. so your food won't get stuck and you can enjoy every single bite. eat loud, live loud, super poligrip. super poligrip holds your dentures tightly in place so you never have to hold back. laugh loud, live loud, super poligrip. >>> the field of presidential candidates is growing. former senator and former rhode is

cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes former assistant director of the fbi and knows how things work. the first thing i thought it sounds sinister the government has a secret fleet of planes that it uses to spy on american citizens. but walk me back from that and tell me, why this isn't as bad as it sounds. >> well, first of all, ashleigh, the program started, this is breaking news, it started about 35, 40 years ago, and it was originally initiated to supplement ground surveillance following spies, you know, in counter espionage investigations and following real organized crime figures, members of the american mafia, and other organized crime people, drug cartels who would be very surveillance conscious and would be looking around at what vehicles on the ground are following them. the aircraft in the air would enable the ground agents to back off, unlike what you see in the movies where they bumper lock each other and it's no secret someone is being surveyed. that's what the original purpose was. it's used for counter espionage, counter organized crime, and terrorism. it was used for

. >> we're trying to get some answers from cnn law enforcement expert tom fuentes. let's start with the picture here of the hole these men carved out using the power tools. you can see how clean the lines are. we talk this morning about why now. each man has been in for at least a decade, but i imagine this takes years of planning. >> i don't think they have both opinion in quite a decade, victor, after they have been placed in this facility. it would take some amount of planning and obviously the tools that they were able to use. it would appear that someone inside that prison helped them, either smuggle tools in or enabled them to use tools already on hand and figure out exactly what would need to be cut and how it would need to be done to get out. as christi mentioned, the prison, built in 1865, maybe much of the infrastructure was crumbling on the inside anyway, and it might have been a little bit easier to cut their way out than most, but what's troubling here is the head start that they have had. that's what will make this so much more difficult if they have i

my colleague errol barnett spoke with fbi assistant director tom fuentes. how stunning is it that david sweat and richard matt, before he was shot on friday, were able to elude authorities for weeks and at least be as frias they were for this amount of time? >> i think it is pretty amazing that they were on the run for three weeks, although, when you si see the pictures of that forest and how deep the coverage was this time of year, late spring, early summer in the u.s., it's not hard to believe. and for people who are outdoorsman, they know that you can be three or feet from somebody in deep woods like that and not notice. the irony is that the prisoners in that jail are allowed to wear civilian clothes, including dark forest green shoes and clothes that are blending in with the woods. >> and we are looking at sweat as he was captured. he was spot the by a lone officer who saw a man jogging and began questioning him before he realized who he was. what was likely the pray or the for that officer at that time when he knew this was david sweat? to capture him

let's bring in tom fuentes to talk about this. when you hear all of this you hear his father say where would he go for help? they knew he was at his breaking point, but it seems like far too often we had situations where someone was dealing with a mental illness carries out an act like this. >> it is far too often. the problem is that parents really once a chile reaches 21 years of age there is not much they can do. even though a son or daughter needs help and could be dangerous, in this case i don't think they thought he was dangerous, but even when they know those things there is not much help they can get. we have an extremely deficient mental health system in this country and it plays out over and over. >> what's it going to take to change. we have the same conversation time and time again. >> i think that the change has to be that there has to be a method and laws passed that allow professionals to intervene in the case of an adult who is severely mentally ill and poses a threat to make sure that person is institutionalized l

let's bring in the former fbi assistant director, law enforcement analyst tom fuentes. the criminal defense horn hln legal analyst joey jackson. former atf special agent in charge matthew horace. this alleged killer he went to this bible study where there are a limited number of people. if he wanted to kill a lot of people he could have gone to the church on a sunday morning. >> it could be we don't know all the answers to that why that particular as much as at that particular time. maybe we'll never know. but they'll be looking to try to talk about that with him. >> if these churches asked you for advice whether to beef up security at this sensitive moment what would you say? >> i'd say maybe temporarily. for a short time just because of a copycat killer that might be out there. not for the long run. >> i agree with tom. we're hoping this was a one-off, one-time deal with a real bad guy and hoping no one else is going to do a copycat crime. >> as you know roof was targeting these victims allegedly because of their race. in this picture you see him wearing a jacket. tha

tom fuentes is here with me in washington. polo this escape seems right out of a hollywood movie. tell us about it, the possibility of an accomplice. . that's what we're hearing from a law enforcement source telling cnn this new information confirming authorities here in upstate new york have spoken to this woman. they tell us she was a female employee of the prison here. not necessarily a guard but an employee here. a main question is how she was able to help these two individuals make their way out according to this information we're getting right now. they have not released those details. officials have not confirmed that information. but the sources confirming for cnn that this woman being questioned as a possible accomplice. we can look back to the last several days and the information revealed that these two individuals are suspected of having used power tools to cut out of their steel cell and cut into an intricate network of underground vapor steam pipes and so eventually they followed that route underground and ended up coming outover one of these manholes not far from wh

mark garigos and tom fuentes are we me here in new york. alina, it is incredibly heart just to read to imagine that someone could think this write it and then execute it. what stands out? >> absolutely poppy. this is incredibly disturbing. the manifesto, the apparent manifesto is full of hate and makes very inflammatory remarks, not just about blacks but about other minorities. we are not going to go into the detail of those remarks, but there are parts of this manifesto that may shed some insight, if in fact it turns out that dylann roof is the one who wrote it. again, cnn has not been able to authenticate the manifesto, but i want to get into part of this manifesto that does shed some light into what may have been the turning point for roof. i want to read this to you. it says in part the event that truly awakened me was the trayvon martin case. i read the wikipedia article and right away i was unable to understand what a big deal it was. it was obvious that zimmerman was in the right, but more importantly, this prompted me to type this t

we have tom fuentes with us a former fbi assistant director and cnn law enforcement analyst. tom, you have authorities, they think the men are still together. why would they be able to tell? what is making them believe they haven't gone their separate ways? >> i think they're guessing. the reason for it would be they might need each other for survival still. that they're still in the escape mode. if they're in the area. if the ride didn't show up if the plan went awry as soon as they came out of the manhole maybe they still need each other for now. so yes, they're the type of personalities that would turn on each other in a heart beat and kill each other without a problem but not that they don't need each other. >> you can imagine two people are getting tired, they might need a lookout or something like that? >> it might be. we're saying that because of the dogs and other information, other spottings that they have to be right in that area. but there's other possibility wes haven't talked about. one is maybe she was supposed to pick them up. she was there ride. she was their

all right, tom fuentes, thank you so much. we'll check back with you. >> you're welcome. >>> churches across the country reaching out now to members of charleston's emanuel ame church. we'll have how some are showing their support. >> reporter: some are showing their support by coming down here to the church but others are uniting behind an eight-word message. i'll share that with you next. more people with type 2 diabetes are learning about long-acting levemir®. as my diabetes changed it got harder to control my blood sugar. today, i'm asking about levemir®. vo: levemir® is an injectable insulin that can give you blood sugar control for up to 24 hours. and levemir® helps lower your a1c. levemir® lasts 42 days without refrigeration. that's 50% longer than lantus® which lasts 28 days. levemir® comes in flextouch® the latest in insulin pen technology from novo nordisk. levemir® is a long-acting insulin used to control high blood sugar in adults and children with diabetes and is not recommended to treat diabetic ketoacid

tom fuentes, thanks for being with us. we'll have a whole lot more on this hunt with the escaped prisoners ahead. up next i'll be asking republican presidential candidate ben carson about his plans to make government more efficient through, quote, covert monitoring. what did he mean by that? you don't want to miss this. kids are expensive. so i'm always looking to get more for my money. that's why i switched from u-verse to xfinity. they have the most free on demand tv shows and movies on all my devices. it's perfect for me because my kids are costing me a fortune. i'm going to cabo! ♪ don't settle for u-verse. xfinity is perfect for people who want more entertainment for their money. >>> presidential candidate ben carson says the push for gay rights should not be compared to the sill rights movement in the u.s. carson says there is irritation over the comparison that prompt this had remark in a cnn interview with our chris cuomo in march. >> do you think gay is a choice? >> absolutely. >> why do you say that? >> because

joining me to bulk about it we have former fbi assistant director tom fuentes. we have matthew fogg a retired chief deputy u.s. marshal and former atf special agent in charge matt horace. thanks for being here to talk with us about it. this is sore of interesting. authorities believe these guys are still together the two of them have not gone off in separate directions. is there a reason reason to believe that? >> the bottom line is because they don't have any other information that they're separated, and then of course with the bloodhounds that picks up on scents and so forth. the last thing they have is they were together when they escaped. >> that's the last thing they have make it just makes sense to them and certainly they hope to find them together i would think they hope that. >> tom, we got a close look at just how many buildings there are in this area. you're talking about vacated vacation homes. there are even ones we sort of zoom in and look there might be shedding in the backyards of some of these homes that certainly overnight they guys could hide i

. >> earlier i spoke with cnn law enforcement analyst and former assistant director at fbi tom fuentes while the massacre appears to be rauchly motivated i asked him about other possibility motives for murder like fame and whether it might be classified as a form of domestic terrorism. take it from the mind of someone like this, that would want fame from something like killing nine people in cold blood. he is so very young but there were signs from his personality that shows signs of trouble. >> we see so many different possibilities for him in terms of the motivation to do it. obviously one we say okay he hates black people and that's why he committed this crime at this time and place at a church like that but a lot of time the people that want to kill others are looking for a celebrity. someone that want to assassinate the president of the united states an another world later or the assassination of john lennon and other celebrities from movies on music and you know, so we've seen that. we've seen celebrities that have been stalked. we have seen people go into the theaters and do mas

>> back to tom fuentes for a second. usually when criminals escape prison they're caught within one or two days. these men have been missing since, we believe, last friday night. so what does that say about these men and where they could be? >> the time line carol, for people that escape and run off like that and become fugitives varies depending on the circumstances of the escape. you know if somebody preplans to be gone they preposition money and clothes and other things then it can take 19 years like whitey bulger but if somebody has an opportunity to just run out the door that's left unlocked or to overpower a hospital employee or one guard and run out the door and aren't prepared for it that's a different circumstance. that one they may have done all the planning in the world for what they were going to do when they got out and it all could have fallen apart if the ride that was supposed to show up and pick them up didn't show up for whatever reason whoever was supposed to be at that prison at that night to get them

i want to bring in cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes, a former fbi assistant director. matt horace former atf special agent in charge he's a security expert. matthew falk retired chief deputy u.s. marshal. tom, you heard governor cuomo, he could be anywhere heck be in mexico. where does that leave authorities as they search for these guys? >> searching from here to mexico. i think that they were going by the leads of the dogs finding the scent a couple of days ago, the candy wrappers. now they're looking at the possibility that maybe they were long gone and the dogs hit on the wrappers from the prison because half the county probably works in that prison brings candy out, throws wrappers away. possibly the dogs did hit on the scent coming from the prison and they're long gone. so they just don't know and they can't rule it out is the other problem. even though it still looks like they might be close, they should be close, they probably didn't get far, but they might have. >> you think they got far or they're still in the area? >> it's two ways to be honest with you. >>

let's bring in a former fbi assistant director tom fuentes, our cnn law enforcement analyst, along with cedric alexander, national organization of black law enforcement executives also a cnn law enforcement analyst. matthew horace a former atf special agent in charge. guys thanks very much for joining us. matthew, how worried should the community there in upstate new york be right now? >> well i think they should be very worried on several levels. number one, this was a failure and a compromise in a security system on so many different levels. at the strategic level, prison management they're supposed to be policies in the place to avoid this. at the tactical level. what guard or what employee or what contractor was involved? at tf i'm sure at fbi, we consider these people to be the worst of the worst. so the community should be concerned about their escape and also if this can happen in the future. >> you have no doubt these two murderers, these prisoners, had outside help? >> this was an inside job and an outside job. how did they get information about the architecture of the prison a

tom fuentes, thank you so much. >> you're welcome. >>> and now, also this breaking news out of charleston. days after that horrible massacre at the emanuel ame church charleston police have now declared it's no longer a crime scene, and now our martin savidge is about to join us to give us an idea as to how you have learned that now emanuel ame will be making plans for sunday services now? >> reporter: yes, they will. that was announced a short while ago. we told you probably about an hour ago how the police had said that that was no longer a crime scene. they lifted the police statement. it was no longer needed for the purposes of their investigation. that seemed to open the door. then it was a short time later we heard from church officials themselves that said that service will be held tomorrow sunday, 9:30 in the morning. they are allowing a television camera to be inside so they know there will be tremendous interest. you can imagine that this church will be everyone's church come tomorrow morning, and i would expect that the crowds would be huge and far beyond the capacity of the sa

also joining us former fbi assistant director cnn law enforcement analyst, tom fuentes. retired chief deputy u.s. marshal matthew fogg. former atf special agent matthew horace. simon, you met gene palmer this prison guard facing they felonies one misdemeanor in connection with this here risk escape. tell us what he told you, describe his demeanor. >> he was extremely nervous. i can honestly say in meeting, when i met with him, he seemed really concern the. he knew what was coming. it was just about two days after he had spent 14 hours with state police telling them what he knew telling them what he did, what he didn't do. he knew. he knew he was about to face serious charges. he was scared. he was scared for his life his family and the shame that he brought upon himself and the community, really. this is a very proud man. he was a corrections officer for 28 years. loved the job. now it has brought him a lot of shame. such angst and such anger sort of within him. because a part of him felt betrayed. betrayed by joyce, betrayed by the guards who he had spent many years bui

. >>> our cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes joins us from d.c. just how stunning is it that david sweat and richard matt were able to elude authorities for weeks and at least be as free as they were for this amount of time? >> i think it is pretty amazing that they were on the run for three weeks. although when you see the pictures of that forest and just how deep the coverage was this time of year you know late spring early summer in the u.s. it's not hard to believe. for people who are outdoorsman you can be three or four feet from somebody in deep woods like that and not notice. and the prisoners are allowed to wear civilian clothes include dark forest green ones that blend in in the woods. >> these are images of david sweat the moment he was captured. he was spotted by a lone officer who saw a man jog and began questioning him before he realized who he was. what was likely the priority for that officer at that time when he knew this was david sweat? to capture him alive or to top him reaching the border? >> i think more than stopping the boar

let's get analysis from phillip mudd and law enforcement analyst, tom fuentes, what do you think? is this going to encourage more americans being taken hostage if they now know families are authorized to pay ransom. >> the problem, wolf the families could always pay ransom. i can tell you in my almost 30 years in the fbi, the fbi left that to the family if they wanted to pay the ransom whether it was organized crime, kidnappings for hire whatever it may be and including terrorists that could be paid. the family if they can raise the $15 million, $30 million, $50 million whatever they ask for that's been a family decision without threat they would be prosecuted by the department of justice. >> you heard the criticism by making the announcement the president is in effect telling terrorists you want to make money go ahead and kidnap americans because their families not the u.s. government will be able to pay that ransom. >> the easy answer, wolf, yes this will fuel terrorism. i'm not sure the easy answer is the right answer. as the the white house said we have had dozens of people ta