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Jun 19, 2015
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jonathan martin is live for us in charleston. and the suspect is due in court in about half hour or so? >> reporter: that's right, tony and this will be dylann roof's initial court appearance. technically a bond hearing, obviously because of the circumstances surrounding the shooting highly highly unlikely there will be any bond for him. likely nine counts of murder and at this point it's too early to know whether or not prosecutors will be thinking the death penalty in this case. any governor here has said this morning that that is what needs to happen without a daut daut -- doubt, that the death penalty needs to be sought in this case. but the court hearing scheduled for 2:00 here in charleston. >> the community just inside the hour heard from the president of naacp, in really moving words. what did he have to say? >> reporter: yeah he was very passionate. and very inclusive. that's one of the things a lot of people noticed. yes, this is a black church. yes, we're talking about nine black members who were killed but he said thi
jonathan martin is live for us in charleston. and the suspect is due in court in about half hour or so? >> reporter: that's right, tony and this will be dylann roof's initial court appearance. technically a bond hearing, obviously because of the circumstances surrounding the shooting highly highly unlikely there will be any bond for him. likely nine counts of murder and at this point it's too early to know whether or not prosecutors will be thinking the death penalty in this case. any...
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Jun 20, 2015
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let's get the latest now from gabriel elizondo who is in charleston for us. we may be getting a better idea of what might have motivated these killings. >> that's absolutely right miriam. behind me, emmanuel ame church, where people continue to stream in front of this church to pay respects to the nine people who lost their lives here. but similarly we're getting more information on what might have triggered this mass killing with this document that was posted online or this manifesto. there are two things with the manifesto. there were photographs, as you said. photographs that purport to show dylann roof that is partially burned and holding the confederate flag. the confederate flag in the south is often tied to racism. but it pales to the words that were written in this document. it's long with racial epitaphs and one important part of the document allegedly written by dylann roof, he said that he chose this church here in charleston primarily because it is of important symbol of african-american culture here in the state of south carolina. that's why he c
let's get the latest now from gabriel elizondo who is in charleston for us. we may be getting a better idea of what might have motivated these killings. >> that's absolutely right miriam. behind me, emmanuel ame church, where people continue to stream in front of this church to pay respects to the nine people who lost their lives here. but similarly we're getting more information on what might have triggered this mass killing with this document that was posted online or this manifesto....
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Jun 20, 2015
06/15
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the defendant is back in court in october. savannah? >> chris jansing for us in charleston tonight. there are so many new details emerging tonight, ranging from the harrowing accounts of the terrifying events inside that church to the confession that investigators say the suspect gave after they hunted him down. we get that report from nbc's craig melvin. >> reporter: the memorial outside emanuel a.m.e. church today has been steadily growing, showing the support of a community in mourning. >> when we got that guy in custody, a audible gasp of relief was heard in our community and in people's hearts. >> reporter: among the nine victims, the church's beloved pastor, clementa pinckney. law enforcement sources telling nbc news his wife jennifer and his youngest daughter were in his office during the shooting, hiding under a desk. jennifer called 911, and while on the phone the shooter knocked on the door. the operator told her not to unlock or open it. according to court documents, roof shot each victim multiple times, and before he left the church he uttered a racially inflammatory sta
the defendant is back in court in october. savannah? >> chris jansing for us in charleston tonight. there are so many new details emerging tonight, ranging from the harrowing accounts of the terrifying events inside that church to the confession that investigators say the suspect gave after they hunted him down. we get that report from nbc's craig melvin. >> reporter: the memorial outside emanuel a.m.e. church today has been steadily growing, showing the support of a community in...
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Jun 25, 2015
06/15
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morgan radford is live for us in charleston, morgan, set the scene for us, what is going on. >> that's right. well to my left here you can probably hear the live gospel band, doing a little bit of praise and worship this afternoon. and it got free signs that say free hugs and love will win. they are also passing out water bottles for anyone who wants to come and mourn and offer words of encouragingment, what is interesting is we have been standing here all day and every hour, people have been coming up saying when is the president coming. so there's a lot of anticipation for the arrival and the answer to that question is tomorrow. he h be delivering the eulogy and he is expected to be accompanied by the vice president joe biden as well as the first lady. but lisa, today there are also viewing. 2009 and 2010, and led bible services for the children. >> morgan, i understand that the college of charleston is honoring one of the victims what have they decided to do? >> the college just a couple of miles up the road, and that's also where the reverend's funeral will be held tomorrow, what t
morgan radford is live for us in charleston, morgan, set the scene for us, what is going on. >> that's right. well to my left here you can probably hear the live gospel band, doing a little bit of praise and worship this afternoon. and it got free signs that say free hugs and love will win. they are also passing out water bottles for anyone who wants to come and mourn and offer words of encouragingment, what is interesting is we have been standing here all day and every hour, people have...
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Jun 19, 2015
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. >> dave wagner working for us in charleston this morning. >>> many churches are reconsidering safety after that shooting. >> yes, that includes churches right here in our area. a pastor at the zion ame church in philadelphia's point breeze section met with church members yesterday to talk about how to keep safe while they worship. the congregation plans to add remote door locks and security cameras. the church is staying connected with police about nearby crime issues. >> we've been warned by several people in and outside of the church and in the community that we really do need to be careful. we need to solidify our security measures here. >> the church created a security team. many of them are former military or have security experience. >>> a church in minnesota is taking its own security measures. >> many of the members carry guns and they have done so for years at the real believers faith center in minneapolis. a team of armed men and women who guard the pastor, his wife and other church members are fully licensed and trained. the pastor said it's been this way ever since an inc
. >> dave wagner working for us in charleston this morning. >>> many churches are reconsidering safety after that shooting. >> yes, that includes churches right here in our area. a pastor at the zion ame church in philadelphia's point breeze section met with church members yesterday to talk about how to keep safe while they worship. the congregation plans to add remote door locks and security cameras. the church is staying connected with police about nearby crime issues....
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Jun 25, 2015
06/15
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scott, the reverend's funeral is tomorrow. >> pelley: michelle miller reporting for us in charleston. michelle, thank you. at least four major wildfires are burning tonight in california. drought and strong winds are bad enough but carter evans reports that firefighters also faced a man-made obstacle. >> you must leave now. >> reporter: the orders came with little warning, but they also came as no surprise to residents who saw flames and smoke approaching their homes in the los angeles suburb of santa clarita. >> i saw fire in my neighbor's backyard. that's when i said, okay, it's time to go. next thing you know, they're banging on my door, "get out get out." >> reporter: air fighters were making progress on wednesday until mike calkins spotted something just below his flame. >> just flash of orange red and just knew something wasn't part of our operation. >> reporter: firefighters say it was a drone with a four-foot swing span. calkins was if one of two spotter planes flying toward each other at 150mph only 1,000 feet apart when the unexpected aircraft flew right between them. just h
scott, the reverend's funeral is tomorrow. >> pelley: michelle miller reporting for us in charleston. michelle, thank you. at least four major wildfires are burning tonight in california. drought and strong winds are bad enough but carter evans reports that firefighters also faced a man-made obstacle. >> you must leave now. >> reporter: the orders came with little warning, but they also came as no surprise to residents who saw flames and smoke approaching their homes in the...
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Jun 22, 2015
06/15
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in charleston, south carolina this morning, mother emanuel church was filled to capacity and hundreds more gathered outside for the first service since the mass shooting that took the lives of nine parishioners wednesday. >> we ask, oh god, that you will guide and direct and strengthen those families who have been victimized by that horrible situation. >> sreenivasan: clergy called for solace, but also for accountability. >> we're going to pursue justice and we're going to be vigilant and we are going to hold our elected officials and others accountable to do the right thing. >> sreenivasan: churches across charleston rang their bells in unison, as a sign of solidarity. last evening, hundreds of demonstrators marched peacefully through charleston, protesting racism and mourning the deaths of the nine shooting victims. at the end of the march demonstrators hung banners with the names of the victims on the" daughters of the confederacy" building. at another rally in columbia, the state capitol, protesters demanded that the state legislature remove the confederate battle flag. talk of th
in charleston, south carolina this morning, mother emanuel church was filled to capacity and hundreds more gathered outside for the first service since the mass shooting that took the lives of nine parishioners wednesday. >> we ask, oh god, that you will guide and direct and strengthen those families who have been victimized by that horrible situation. >> sreenivasan: clergy called for solace, but also for accountability. >> we're going to pursue justice and we're going to be...
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Jun 18, 2015
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they are no longer concerned about that. >> ashley killough reporting there for us in charleston south carolina. hillary clinton was campaigning in charleston yesterday. jeb bush was scheduled to have a campaign event there today, but it was cancelled. robert costa is reporting there for us. he joins us now. robert you have been near the embassy suites nearby which is the community center for the families of those killed in the church. what are you seeing? >> reporter: i'm a few steps away from the embassy suites. all of the families have come out in pairs and groups hugging each other with tears on their faces. some of them have shared stories about what happened today inside the church. there has been a lot of frankly screaming when people have heard the news when names have been confirmed privately from church members or law enforcement. it is a scene of people stricken and shook to their core. >> robert, tell us about the manhunt. the dragnet they are deploying. the early 20s sandy blond hair suspect. he was in timberland boots and jeans and hoodie. walked into the church and into
they are no longer concerned about that. >> ashley killough reporting there for us in charleston south carolina. hillary clinton was campaigning in charleston yesterday. jeb bush was scheduled to have a campaign event there today, but it was cancelled. robert costa is reporting there for us. he joins us now. robert you have been near the embassy suites nearby which is the community center for the families of those killed in the church. what are you seeing? >> reporter: i'm a few...
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Jun 18, 2015
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kimberly: kimberly king reporting live for us in charleston. thank you for that report. jonathan: still ahead for us at 4:00, the man arrested for attacking that -- an elderly couple gets his sentence. do you want to know how hard it can be to breathe with copd? it can feel like this. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my airways for a full 24 hours. spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva respimat does not replace rescue inhalerfor sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva respimat. discuss all medicines you take even eye drops. if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells you get hives, vision changes or eye pain or problems passing urine stop taking spiriva respimat and call your doctor right away. side effects include sore throat cough, dry mouth and sinus infection. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. to learn about spiriva respimat
kimberly: kimberly king reporting live for us in charleston. thank you for that report. jonathan: still ahead for us at 4:00, the man arrested for attacking that -- an elderly couple gets his sentence. do you want to know how hard it can be to breathe with copd? it can feel like this. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my airways for a full 24 hours. spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva respimat does not...
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Jun 18, 2015
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our cnn producer live for us there in charleston, south carolina. we'll continue to talk to you throughout the morning. >> we do want to add this, republican presidential candidate jeb bush has cancelled a planned event in charleston today, we should say. thursday is now upon us. his campaign says his thoughts and prayers are with the individuals and families affected by this tragedy. >> we will have more on this breaking story throughout the hour. and you can always when you are away from your television check cnn.com for the latest developments on this and other big stories around the world. >>> for now we want to turn to update new york for the latest on the man hunt for the two escaped killers. authorities admit that richard matt and david sweat could be anywhere after 12 days on the run. >> a scary thought. the police say they have more than 1400 leads and are sifting their search area across the u.s. border into canada. jason carroll has more. >> reporter: wanted posters are now being handed out along the canadian and mexican borders. this as
our cnn producer live for us there in charleston, south carolina. we'll continue to talk to you throughout the morning. >> we do want to add this, republican presidential candidate jeb bush has cancelled a planned event in charleston today, we should say. thursday is now upon us. his campaign says his thoughts and prayers are with the individuals and families affected by this tragedy. >> we will have more on this breaking story throughout the hour. and you can always when you are...
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Jun 26, 2015
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there are three visitations at emmanuel ame church behind me. >> diane estherbrook for us in charleston, south carolina. thank you. >>> roslyn brock is the chairman of the naacp board of directors. we asked what she thought about the president's eulogy. >> we're so grateful for his eulogy for the sitting president of the united states to talk about grace. and for what we all need in this nation. we come here, white black brown, from all across this nation as people who have hope, and who still believe in hope, and hope in a nation, we all work together in unity to solve the societal issues that we have. but then to have our president come and speak to those same issues very pointedly and then to sing "amazing grace," to lead that auditorium that old hymn of the african-american church was powerful and very historical. >> there is a moment here. this president was seen around the world and eulogizing this pastor and state senator. what issues need to be discussed in this moment right here and right now? >> i think it it's a pivotal moment in our nation's history. we have to talk about gu
there are three visitations at emmanuel ame church behind me. >> diane estherbrook for us in charleston, south carolina. thank you. >>> roslyn brock is the chairman of the naacp board of directors. we asked what she thought about the president's eulogy. >> we're so grateful for his eulogy for the sitting president of the united states to talk about grace. and for what we all need in this nation. we come here, white black brown, from all across this nation as people who have...
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Jun 20, 2015
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joe waldman is live for us in charleston where that city is in mourning, joel. >> reporter: ken, good evening as charleston continues to mourn the accused shooter dylann roof's family opening up about what happened inside the emanuel ame church. dylann roof's family expressing sympathy. words cannot express our shock, grief and disbelief as to what happened that night, we are devastated and saddened by who occurred, they wrote. roof stood for his bond hearing. >> mr. roof is charged with nine counts of murder. >> reporter: some victim's families say they have forgiven roof for his alleged crime while others are trying to come to terms with the loss of their loved ones. >> she's not here with us you know physically but i know that she is up and above watching over us. and i know that we as a family, we're going to get through this. >> reporter: in front of the church a memorial keeps mull -- multiplies in size. and tonight, hundreds gather inside the university of south carolina for a vigil. meantime president obama is renewing their call for gun control in the wake of the shootings. >
joe waldman is live for us in charleston where that city is in mourning, joel. >> reporter: ken, good evening as charleston continues to mourn the accused shooter dylann roof's family opening up about what happened inside the emanuel ame church. dylann roof's family expressing sympathy. words cannot express our shock, grief and disbelief as to what happened that night, we are devastated and saddened by who occurred, they wrote. roof stood for his bond hearing. >> mr. roof is charged...
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Jun 21, 2015
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we have this jump date from charleston. actually, he is live for us now in charleston. gabriel, it's a very emotional poignant day for the community there. this is the first time the church has opened for sunday service since the attack a few days ago. what have people there been telling you? >> the church behind me has more than 150 years that it has been there. people like booker t. washington and martin luther king, jr. have passed through those doors. the church was packed with more than 2,000 people on this first mass after the shooting. it was a message of trying to move forward and a message by the people that spoke in there about trying to honor the victims. there were passing references to the murders and the killings, but they were saying it was just an act of evil that with him not define this church. this was soulful at times subdued at other times. it was reflective. outside the church, we saw a moment of silence dozens of other churches tolled their bells at the same time in solidarity. three to 400 people who could not get a seat still listened outside th
we have this jump date from charleston. actually, he is live for us now in charleston. gabriel, it's a very emotional poignant day for the community there. this is the first time the church has opened for sunday service since the attack a few days ago. what have people there been telling you? >> the church behind me has more than 150 years that it has been there. people like booker t. washington and martin luther king, jr. have passed through those doors. the church was packed with more...
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Jun 19, 2015
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. >> robert ray for us in charleston, south carolina. thank you. dylann roof is from lexington south carolina. that's about 2 hours from charleston. we went there today to speak to some of roof's friends and to see how the community is reacting. here is gabriel elizondo. >> after one history historian called the worst hate crime committed in south carolina, who was dylann roof. he went to white knoll high school but never graduated. his friends said that he experimented with drugs and sometimes would tell racist jokes. one friend said that he wanted, quote, civil war with african-americans. >> i'm speechless. i don't really know. it hit me hard. seeing the best friend that you've known for seven years to do something like this. he wanted segregation. he wanted white with white and black with black and that he didn't, he didn't believe in what the black race was doing to the white race. >> roof appeared to be to spend his time bounceing around. roof was not deeply involved in the community and didn't have a job. residents here remain in shock. >> yo
. >> robert ray for us in charleston, south carolina. thank you. dylann roof is from lexington south carolina. that's about 2 hours from charleston. we went there today to speak to some of roof's friends and to see how the community is reacting. here is gabriel elizondo. >> after one history historian called the worst hate crime committed in south carolina, who was dylann roof. he went to white knoll high school but never graduated. his friends said that he experimented with drugs...
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Jun 21, 2015
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cnn's martin savidge is live for us in charleston. martin, you were inside the church today. it was riveting listening to it from afar. what was it like being there? >> i struggle. every time i try to talk about what it was like to be there, it's almost like the cliche you reallied a to be there to understand. going in of course there was nerves because there's security. and you're also going into a church service where the tragedy that people are remembering, the church is where the tragedy happened. so it elevates the level of emotion there. i think before the service began, when everyone was sitting down when there was no music, they were worried. but then that grand organ began to play and the choir began to sing and suddenly you just lookeded at one another and realized you know what it is going to be all right. and from there on out, that service became a remarkable point of healing. how could you not forget nine people died? anybody going to the church regularly would miss every single one of those nine faces, especially because one of them was the reverend of the chur
cnn's martin savidge is live for us in charleston. martin, you were inside the church today. it was riveting listening to it from afar. what was it like being there? >> i struggle. every time i try to talk about what it was like to be there, it's almost like the cliche you reallied a to be there to understand. going in of course there was nerves because there's security. and you're also going into a church service where the tragedy that people are remembering, the church is where the...
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Jun 26, 2015
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dell if you would, set that scene for us there in charleston as this service is well underway and the president of the united states is set to give the eulogy any moment. >>reporter: tony to set the scene for you, they began the ceremony about 11:00 o'clock eastern time. they've been going ever since. i've heard it described as the sweltering summer of 2015. temperatures here in south carolina today 97 degrees. feels like temperatures closer to 110. it's that warm inside the auditorium there. what you're seeing and the reason we're coming back to you right now is because about five minutes ago, the president of the united states flanked by the vice president of the united states entered the arena. there was a warm applause. the president is expected to deliver the eulogy at any given moment now here in south carolina as i mentioned in the program, they're calling it a celebration. it's a home going in the african-american tradition meaning they believe that they're going to meet their maker. that they are with jesus and that's why they celebrate it at the end of life on this earth and
dell if you would, set that scene for us there in charleston as this service is well underway and the president of the united states is set to give the eulogy any moment. >>reporter: tony to set the scene for you, they began the ceremony about 11:00 o'clock eastern time. they've been going ever since. i've heard it described as the sweltering summer of 2015. temperatures here in south carolina today 97 degrees. feels like temperatures closer to 110. it's that warm inside the auditorium...
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Jun 19, 2015
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in charleston, we may be coming to ta realization slower. i call charleston the largest small town you ever lived in. everybody knows everybody or knows somebody. the world is changing on us because we have 43 people a day move to our community. we have great things happening here but, you know the world is changing around us and we need to be more responsible or force people to be more responsible. i own guns. they are in a safe in my garage. i have 5-year-old and 3-year-old and i don't let them around them. >> but you can bet that debate about gun violence and gun control will be front and center given what happened here. as we have been reporting, a hate crime investigation is now under way. u.s. attorney general loretta lynch made that announcement on thursday. so what is the legal deaf nation of a -- definition of a hate crime in the u.s.? >> it is illegal obviously to kill someone. what congress and the legislators have decided it is more harmful to society when you commit an illegal act like a homicide with harmful, negative racial in
in charleston, we may be coming to ta realization slower. i call charleston the largest small town you ever lived in. everybody knows everybody or knows somebody. the world is changing on us because we have 43 people a day move to our community. we have great things happening here but, you know the world is changing around us and we need to be more responsible or force people to be more responsible. i own guns. they are in a safe in my garage. i have 5-year-old and 3-year-old and i don't let...
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Jun 25, 2015
06/15
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cnn's don lemon is on the scene for us in charleston. the reverend's body is back there now, he laid in state in the state capitol of columbia. set the scene for us now, don. >> reporter: it is a very emotional day. i'm sure you can hear the christian jubilee. they are playing in the background in front of this church. but there is important news that we need to give you regarding the family of the suspect, dylann roof. basically, what they are saying is that at this time it's not appropriate for them to make a comment. the thoughts and prayers and the minds should be with the victims. that being said we'd like to take this time to reflect on the victims and give their families time to grieve. we feel it would be inappropriate to say anything at this time other than we are truly sorry for their loss. and again, they say after some time they may feel it's appropriate to make a statement. that is coming from the family of 21-year-old dylann roof the shooter, the alleged shooter in this case who has confessed to the shootings and the killin
cnn's don lemon is on the scene for us in charleston. the reverend's body is back there now, he laid in state in the state capitol of columbia. set the scene for us now, don. >> reporter: it is a very emotional day. i'm sure you can hear the christian jubilee. they are playing in the background in front of this church. but there is important news that we need to give you regarding the family of the suspect, dylann roof. basically, what they are saying is that at this time it's not...
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Jun 18, 2015
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jummy: holly live for us there in charleston, thank you so much, we are just seconds away from hearing from president obama live at the white house we know that joe biden called and spoke to the mayor -- it appears they are about to speak. let's listen. president obama good afternoon everybody. this morning i and the vice president spoke with the mayor and other leaders in charleston to express our deep stop -- deep sorrow over the senseless murders that took place last night. michele and i know several members of the emmanuel church. we knew their pastor, who along with eight others gathered in prayer and fellowship and were murdered last night. to say that our thoughts and prayers are with them, the families and community, does not say enough to convey the heart ache and sadness, and the anger, that we feel. any death of this sort is a tragedy. any shooting involving multiple victims is a tragedy. there is something particularly heartbreaking about it f happening in a place in which we speak -- in which we seek solace in peace. in a place of worship. mother emmanuel is in fact more t
jummy: holly live for us there in charleston, thank you so much, we are just seconds away from hearing from president obama live at the white house we know that joe biden called and spoke to the mayor -- it appears they are about to speak. let's listen. president obama good afternoon everybody. this morning i and the vice president spoke with the mayor and other leaders in charleston to express our deep stop -- deep sorrow over the senseless murders that took place last night. michele and i...
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Jun 18, 2015
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. >> robert reich, thank you very much for joining us. >>> in charleston south carolina there's been a shooting inside of a church. we will have more on that when we come back. ove? when you got married? when you had kids? when did you first fight to be considered a family? when you fell in love? when you got married? when you had kids? family isn't defined by who you love, but how. tylenol®. put your hand over your heart. is it beating? good! then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. it's a wholesome blend of peanuts, pecans and other delicious nuts specially mixed for people with hearts. planters. nutrition starts with nut. summers heating up with royal caribbean's wow sale. our biggest sale of the summer ends today. get a 50% reduced deposit. plus up to $200 onboard spending money. and up to 30% off your cruise. call 1-800-royal-caribbean or your travel agent today. there's nothing more romantic than a spontaneous moment. so why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the o
. >> robert reich, thank you very much for joining us. >>> in charleston south carolina there's been a shooting inside of a church. we will have more on that when we come back. ove? when you got married? when you had kids? when did you first fight to be considered a family? when you fell in love? when you got married? when you had kids? family isn't defined by who you love, but how. tylenol®. put your hand over your heart. is it beating? good! then my nutrition heart health mix...
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Jun 19, 2015
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the shootings in charleston. joining us is scott robinson of the advancement project. you focus on racial justice issues and organise to try to stop hate crimes. in this case wouldn't investigators have said that the shooter reportedly said i had to do it. you have to go, referring to the african-americans in the sanctuary. does this mirror what you heard so far about white soup rem sifts and how they bring people into the fold? >> what is key is what he said before that, about you rape our women, something to that extent. this narrative of black criminality is key to white supremist recruitment. in the segment earlier we showed storm front posts, one alluded to blacks killing whites every day. a myth of black on white violence being rampantful. >> this is a motivator, something that supremist groups use to bring people online. >> absolutely, there's an effort to play on people's fears that are already there. this is a very long-term narrative in america around black criminality, fear of people of colour, and whether - and social rape as well. >> something has to drive
the shootings in charleston. joining us is scott robinson of the advancement project. you focus on racial justice issues and organise to try to stop hate crimes. in this case wouldn't investigators have said that the shooter reportedly said i had to do it. you have to go, referring to the african-americans in the sanctuary. does this mirror what you heard so far about white soup rem sifts and how they bring people into the fold? >> what is key is what he said before that, about you rape...
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he's with us here in charleston. also with me is journalist charlayne hunter-gault, who was born in south carolina and the first african-american woman to enroll at the university of georgia, thanks so much, both of you, for joining us. jelani, one of the things that you said about this tragedy and you have written so beautifully this week is that language matters, what do you mean by that? >> so, we talked about this in a lot of ways, we said it's a horrible incident. we can say it's a tragedy. but this is an act of terrorism. like, just as we had this debate in 2012, mitt romney was going back and forth, you know, about whether or not the president called what happened in benghazi terrorism or he tried to evade what that actually was, this is something that qualifies -- when you go through the patriotic act and you see how it describes act of terrorism and everything purports to what we saw here. i think we have to be honest and call it that. >> you also write, the fact that dylann roof appears to acted without acc
he's with us here in charleston. also with me is journalist charlayne hunter-gault, who was born in south carolina and the first african-american woman to enroll at the university of georgia, thanks so much, both of you, for joining us. jelani, one of the things that you said about this tragedy and you have written so beautifully this week is that language matters, what do you mean by that? >> so, we talked about this in a lot of ways, we said it's a horrible incident. we can say it's a...
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, but all over the state as well. >> craig melvin in charleston for us. we'll be back with you throughout the show. let's head now to dave wagner, also in charleston. walk us through what happened last night that ultimately led to such a tragic ending. >> reporter: well, it started -- i apologize for my voice. it started around an hour, maybe 8:00 or so, an hour before the actual shootings when the suspect, according to police, went to the church asked to speak to the senior pastor there, and then sat down with the bible study group. so he sat with them for an hour. and then an hour later, ended uptaking their lives. he shot eight people. an additional person taken to the hospital. that person died as well. i did obtain a picture, we interviewed just a short while ago, a man named malcolm graham. malcolm is a former north carolina state senator. he lost his sister in the shootings here. i want to show you a picture of her to get a sense of what a vibrant woman she was. her name was cynthia hurd. she was a librarian here in charleston. she also worked for
, but all over the state as well. >> craig melvin in charleston for us. we'll be back with you throughout the show. let's head now to dave wagner, also in charleston. walk us through what happened last night that ultimately led to such a tragic ending. >> reporter: well, it started -- i apologize for my voice. it started around an hour, maybe 8:00 or so, an hour before the actual shootings when the suspect, according to police, went to the church asked to speak to the senior pastor...
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we hope to know more about that soon. >> kenneth moton he's live there for us in charleston. we appreciate it. also you can stay with abc news. we take you to the ballpark of all places the scene of a memorial last night. you don't want to miss that. a really touching moment there at a ballpark. that's coming up later this half hour. >> turning to another developing story, there are several wildfires raging in california. the latest is a lake fire in the san bernardino national forest. 10,000 acres have burned and the blaze only 5% contained. the california fires are made worse by the drought but in oklahoma north texas and arkansas, the problem is water. about 10 inches of rain fell in the region in just a few hours and the storm is now heading east and the midwest. we get more from abc's rob marciano. >> extreme weather as tropical storm bill drenched the heartland with record rain. roads and highways from texas to missouri impassable. three teens trapped in san antonio. first responders trying a ladder to reach them as the car is engulfed. swimming the nearby trees rescuer
we hope to know more about that soon. >> kenneth moton he's live there for us in charleston. we appreciate it. also you can stay with abc news. we take you to the ballpark of all places the scene of a memorial last night. you don't want to miss that. a really touching moment there at a ballpark. that's coming up later this half hour. >> turning to another developing story, there are several wildfires raging in california. the latest is a lake fire in the san bernardino national...
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al jazeera's rob mcrae joins us from charleston. >> evening. the suspect is in custody. fbi flew him here to charleston earlier today from north carolina. he has a bond hearing at 2:00 pm tomorrow. in the meantime you can see a lot of people gathering throughout the night in front of the church where the nine people were murdered a little over 24 hours ago. a stream of individuals, some talking about exactly what the issues are, racism, gun control. many discussions on the streets. earlier we had a woman with bagpipes showing her report. the streets went silent after she ended her talent. we are taking it in here. it's a sad moment in charleston and another moment of reflection where america has to dig in and figure out what need to change so this doesn't happen again. we are told that the suspect's room-mate said that dillon was perhaps planning this for the past six months. a question raised is why the room-mate never brought this to the attention of authorities, who knows. sensitive subject. we need answers. and we'll find that in the day's coming as funerals begin ne
al jazeera's rob mcrae joins us from charleston. >> evening. the suspect is in custody. fbi flew him here to charleston earlier today from north carolina. he has a bond hearing at 2:00 pm tomorrow. in the meantime you can see a lot of people gathering throughout the night in front of the church where the nine people were murdered a little over 24 hours ago. a stream of individuals, some talking about exactly what the issues are, racism, gun control. many discussions on the streets....
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sunny hosten is with us she's in charleston. what did you think, sunny? >> you know i think we've been hearing this president talk over and over again about gun control reform and i think what he said really rings true that no one better no public officials other than our mayors of our major cities understand the import of gun violence. as you know mayor rawlins blake of baltimore is a good friend of mine. we obvious talk about guns and gun control and gun violence. she is actually lyly now the president of the conference of mayors. i understand the mayors are going to be discussing that very issue this weekend. so i think his remarks were just right on target given what we are seeing in this country, and especially given what we have seen the past few days in charleston. >>> matthew morris is with us a former special agent in charge. he appointed out that 11,000 americans were killed in 2013 by gun violence. he said once again you don't see this kind of violence in any other advanced nation on earth. you see it here in the united states he says, because
sunny hosten is with us she's in charleston. what did you think, sunny? >> you know i think we've been hearing this president talk over and over again about gun control reform and i think what he said really rings true that no one better no public officials other than our mayors of our major cities understand the import of gun violence. as you know mayor rawlins blake of baltimore is a good friend of mine. we obvious talk about guns and gun control and gun violence. she is actually lyly...
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there will also be prayer vigils in charleston later this evening. joining us now from charleston is the south carolina state senator marlin kimpson. senator, thanks so much for joining us. i know you were a friend of reverend clementa pinckney who was murdered in the church also a state senator. you knew him well. what would he be telling the community right now if he could. >> well and we have some words of his that recently have been posted in the aftermath of a tragic shooting we had here most recently in north charleston by a police officer shooting an unarmed citizen. he would be telling the nation to remain calm but let's come away from this horrific experience with a pro active agenda. that agenda should include improving race relations in the state of south carolina and embracing the issues that device us. if we don't know cus on the divisive symbols that exist in our state, the divisive rhetoric that circulates on the internet and changing hearts and minds then we have failed our mission. >> you're referring to the confederate flag that sti
there will also be prayer vigils in charleston later this evening. joining us now from charleston is the south carolina state senator marlin kimpson. senator, thanks so much for joining us. i know you were a friend of reverend clementa pinckney who was murdered in the church also a state senator. you knew him well. what would he be telling the community right now if he could. >> well and we have some words of his that recently have been posted in the aftermath of a tragic shooting we had...
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more details about the gun he used in charleston last wednesday night. sources tell nbc it was bought in south carolina on april 11, a week after roof turned 21. although he had an outstanding drug charge, under south carolina law the purchase was still legal. al jazeera. >> members of the new black panther party marched in charleston last night. about 200 people took to the streets chanting black power and arm yourself. they marched to the church where mourners were gathered. tensions were high between the groups who appeared sup set at some of of the chants. the march was peaceful. >> the shootings have launched a debate over the confederate flag, and maryland is the latest state to talk about removing it from license plates. governor hogan's office is working to end the use of the flag. virginia is moving to banish the flags from license plates. south carolina lawmakers voted tuesday to discuss removing the flag from outside the statehouse. other states are considering similar moves, including removing confederate statues. south carolina senator joins
more details about the gun he used in charleston last wednesday night. sources tell nbc it was bought in south carolina on april 11, a week after roof turned 21. although he had an outstanding drug charge, under south carolina law the purchase was still legal. al jazeera. >> members of the new black panther party marched in charleston last night. about 200 people took to the streets chanting black power and arm yourself. they marched to the church where mourners were gathered. tensions...
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in the charleston area? >> we have no reason to believe he's not in the charleston area. he could be outside and we are sending this information broadly across all our law enforcement partners not only in the charleston region but on the east coast. >> reporter: any photo? >> as i said earlier, we believe this is a hate crime. that's how we are investigating it. we'll talk more at 7:00. anything about the suspect or the suspect vehicle? okay. >> reporter: have you contacted other local law enforcement? >> we have communication to other local law enforcement and throughout the united states. the communication is in place. the same information you have has been broadcast to law enforcement at the local, state and federal level all across the united states. [ [. >> we have agents all over the city along with law enforcement partners. so we'll be looking for this individual and this car just like everyone else. this is an all hands on deck effort with the community as well as law enforcement. and i think with th
in the charleston area? >> we have no reason to believe he's not in the charleston area. he could be outside and we are sending this information broadly across all our law enforcement partners not only in the charleston region but on the east coast. >> reporter: any photo? >> as i said earlier, we believe this is a hate crime. that's how we are investigating it. we'll talk more at 7:00. anything about the suspect or the suspect vehicle? okay. >> reporter: have you...
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nbc10's dave wagner is live on the scene in charleston. dave, set the scene for us here. >> reporter: i'm a block and a half away from the emanuel ame church. police have it blocked off in each direction. unfortunately, this church that has such a great history about it really steep in tradition. it is the oldest ame church in the south, now has become a crime scene. as you mentioned, a gunman walked into this church about 9:00 last night, 9:05 to be exact. a prayer meeting going on. he opened fire. a lone gunman according to police. police are calling this a hate crime and they are searching this community with the help of both the fbi, the south carolina law enforcement division as well as local police around here. they say they are committed to finding him and believe they will but, right now this community is reeling because this is a relatively safe city
nbc10's dave wagner is live on the scene in charleston. dave, set the scene for us here. >> reporter: i'm a block and a half away from the emanuel ame church. police have it blocked off in each direction. unfortunately, this church that has such a great history about it really steep in tradition. it is the oldest ame church in the south, now has become a crime scene. as you mentioned, a gunman walked into this church about 9:00 last night, 9:05 to be exact. a prayer meeting going on. he...
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susan swain: martha is watching us in charleston, south carolina. hello, martha. martha : oh, hi, susan. thanks again for another terrific show. you alluded to my question earlier in the show about the possible tension between julia grant and mary lincoln. and then you visited the beautiful galena home that was given to the grants. and i'm not sure. (was it) during the same time period that mary lincoln was trying to get attention out of the government and here, grant has a home given to him and mary lincoln was in germany trying to educate her son, tad and i believe the grants later on visited mary lincoln when she was in (peau), france? is that correct? william seale: they in fact didn't. did they? pamela sanfilippo: no. they crossed paths but julia says she didn't find out about mary lincoln being in the same town that they were in until they were on their way out and couldn't change their plans. susan swain: do you agree with the irony of the fact that -- that mary lincoln was struggling and looking for a pension after her husband was the chief executive in th
susan swain: martha is watching us in charleston, south carolina. hello, martha. martha : oh, hi, susan. thanks again for another terrific show. you alluded to my question earlier in the show about the possible tension between julia grant and mary lincoln. and then you visited the beautiful galena home that was given to the grants. and i'm not sure. (was it) during the same time period that mary lincoln was trying to get attention out of the government and here, grant has a home given to him...
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martin savage is in charleston with the latest for us. >> reporter: good morning, john, today is going to be another emotional day here in charleston. yesterday we had the first two funerals and last night we saw as the reverend clementa was carried back to the church he led and the church in which he was murdered. it was a very powerful scene. today there's going to be just a whole host of dignitaryies attending the funeral. the president, first lady, speaker of the house and also secretary hillary clinton. that's just naming some of the dignitaries. the role that the president has to play, he's delivering the eulogy but he's going to be the comforter in chief. it's a role he's had to play before but this this one and this time is very very different different. unlike other national tragedies this one is a racially motivated massacre. he's our first black president, and raises a an issue that he's not really wanted to talk about much in the early part of his administration but as we know from just this week it became a very blunt conversation. so it is likely that race will be part of
martin savage is in charleston with the latest for us. >> reporter: good morning, john, today is going to be another emotional day here in charleston. yesterday we had the first two funerals and last night we saw as the reverend clementa was carried back to the church he led and the church in which he was murdered. it was a very powerful scene. today there's going to be just a whole host of dignitaryies attending the funeral. the president, first lady, speaker of the house and also...
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stay with us. >>> welcome back to al jazeera america. in charleston members of the a.m.e. church were allowed to re-enter while the community begins a healing process. a website of suspected shooter dylann roof published his alleged manifesto >>> a manhunt is under way now after a police officer was shot and killed in new orleans. authorities are searching for 22-year-old travis boyce, he was being driven to gaol and handcuffed but managed to shoot officer holloway >>> tens of thousands in the u.k. streets calling for a cut to government spending guts. the government says austerity is needed to make up for debt. protesters say it tarts the vulnerable. the united nations warns of a new era for refugees. on world refugee day it says there are nearly 60 million people worsed to fully their homes. syria is the biggest contributor. its neighbour turkey bears the brunt. the government says it had little financial help to deal with the influx, and most refugee camps are overrun and under-resourced. bernard smith reports from south-eastern turkey >>> these are the most basic of co
stay with us. >>> welcome back to al jazeera america. in charleston members of the a.m.e. church were allowed to re-enter while the community begins a healing process. a website of suspected shooter dylann roof published his alleged manifesto >>> a manhunt is under way now after a police officer was shot and killed in new orleans. authorities are searching for 22-year-old travis boyce, he was being driven to gaol and handcuffed but managed to shoot officer holloway...
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it started a year ago in ferguson. it has brought us here to charleston. and we hope that charleston is where it ends. but as we watched, as we have watched the tragedy unfold this week i'm reminded of the serenity prayer the nuns always prayed in the catholic church or the catholic school i went to in pensacola, florida. where they talked about a peace that surpasses all understanding. it's a peace that comes from god's grace. and that gene robinson at the end of the day is reverend pinckney's legacy the grace he passed on to his people. >> i agree. certainly when the families spoke confronting the killer that made people pay attention in a different way, i think. i think helped maybe open minds and hearts in a way that frankly we're not accustomed to. we are not accustomed to what i see and feel in charleston this week. >> that's been a remarkable part of what i've seen. i don't know how to capture it. i guess what you are both saying in different ways when those families show that kind of unimaginable, unthinkable and frankly, heavenly love looking at t
it started a year ago in ferguson. it has brought us here to charleston. and we hope that charleston is where it ends. but as we watched, as we have watched the tragedy unfold this week i'm reminded of the serenity prayer the nuns always prayed in the catholic church or the catholic school i went to in pensacola, florida. where they talked about a peace that surpasses all understanding. it's a peace that comes from god's grace. and that gene robinson at the end of the day is reverend pinckney's...
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morgan radford joins us now live in charleston how are people reacting to the governor's call can surrounded by those south carolina officials? a lot going on, just two days after services resumed right here this' a lot of intensely personal emotion here on the ground you can can see people walking by, putting down balloons and flowers signs that read things like your life matters. but in this heart of othis there's a larger political discussion as you mention there's a rally about 2 1/2 hours up the road to take down the flag, they are saying one it symbolizes hate and two it is a point in our nation's history not our state present. >> so morgan, given the fact that the governor is now onboard with with taking down the flag, do people feel any sense of victory or at least a step in the right direction? >> he mentioned he was at a rally to take down the flag, which was on top of the building. and we are hearing this larger more organic ground swell to take it down. but there's a second issue here, and that's the issue of gun control. that's something that is a little bit prickly that's for o
morgan radford joins us now live in charleston how are people reacting to the governor's call can surrounded by those south carolina officials? a lot going on, just two days after services resumed right here this' a lot of intensely personal emotion here on the ground you can can see people walking by, putting down balloons and flowers signs that read things like your life matters. but in this heart of othis there's a larger political discussion as you mention there's a rally about 2 1/2 hours...
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in charleston. adam, this has been a debate for a long time now, but it seems freshly intensified because of what happened at the mother emanuel church. do people feel the tragedy will have the force to move the legislature about it? >> yeah they think now might be the best opportunity with national attention focused on this tragedy here behind me and the symbolism of the flag. it will certainly be a topic of conversation as we move towards the presidential primary next here in south carolina. south carolina a critical state. governor haley under pressure to bring it up at special session. she will speak at 4:00. if you know south carolina politics you know this is something that won't be easy. i spoke to mayor riley here in charleston. he's been mayor for almost 40 years. he says he knows exactly what to do with the flag. >> put it in a museum without an other artifacts of history and that needs to be done. i think if this one guy, bad guy with confederate battle flag on his cap and that was one of
in charleston. adam, this has been a debate for a long time now, but it seems freshly intensified because of what happened at the mother emanuel church. do people feel the tragedy will have the force to move the legislature about it? >> yeah they think now might be the best opportunity with national attention focused on this tragedy here behind me and the symbolism of the flag. it will certainly be a topic of conversation as we move towards the presidential primary next here in south...
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. >> jonathan martin now rejoins us from charleston. what's going on in the community today? >> john henry, as we mentioned there are a number of judge r. vigils that have happened and a number of others that will happen today and this weekend. there's one at 6:00 today. really we understand the naacp and some of the family members of these nine victims will be coming together for a special prayer vigil and again no details at this point on specific arrangements for funerals, i should say for these victims. throughout the day a lot of people coming by here and the vigil planned tonight to remember these folks. >> jonathan martin in charleston, thank you so much. >> president obama's frustration was clear when he responded to the shootings. what also seems clear is that gun control was on his mind. >> we don't have all the fact but we do know that once again in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. >> there have been 14 mass shootings be during the obama presidency and f.b.i. statistics show the number of hate crimes are r
. >> jonathan martin now rejoins us from charleston. what's going on in the community today? >> john henry, as we mentioned there are a number of judge r. vigils that have happened and a number of others that will happen today and this weekend. there's one at 6:00 today. really we understand the naacp and some of the family members of these nine victims will be coming together for a special prayer vigil and again no details at this point on specific arrangements for funerals, i...
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there is wants all around us -- that's the thing. 70's in pittsburgh, detroit charleston, wilmington. all around us, it's milder, but we are in this little pattern. notice on this satellite picture, the rain is continuing to lift in from east southeast to north/northwest. with this trajectory, some of this will be grazing through central virginia. am they come through southern maryland. -- some may come through southern maryland. we still have shower potential as we continue to keep an eye on this. our futurecast looks forward over the next 36 hours. you can see the showers lifting from south to north. that is a typical -- that is atypical. more periods of rain. basically what we've seen the last couple of days continues. tomorrow morning, when you wake up, it is still damp, still gray still cool but i'm hopeful that by tomorrow afternoon, we will start to break that pattern. 60 is the best we can do this afternoon. near 60 or so tonight. tomorrow, we start the day gray and damp. progressively through the day, the winch suit -- the wind should shift south/ southeasterly. we should get
there is wants all around us -- that's the thing. 70's in pittsburgh, detroit charleston, wilmington. all around us, it's milder, but we are in this little pattern. notice on this satellite picture, the rain is continuing to lift in from east southeast to north/northwest. with this trajectory, some of this will be grazing through central virginia. am they come through southern maryland. -- some may come through southern maryland. we still have shower potential as we continue to keep an eye on...
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this kind of racial motivated terrorism only draws us closer together as a people in this city of charleston. >> sometimes i think we forget our history or maybe i'm guilty of that when i watched del walters' piece tonight and he talked about the slave market that is now a tourist attraction in the city of charleston. you can't get away from--go ahead. >> yes, we do have a market, but that market that you're probably referring to is really not the slave market. the slave market is on queen street. but more importantly as we move forward we are building an international african american museum in our city. the museum will be where 40% of the slaves came into this country. it's important for our city to tell the true story to make sure that the history books reflect what really happened in our country. we feel that by building--building the international african museum on the this site will give testament to our commitment to make sure that the truth is it told about the african-american heritage in this country. >> that's why this crime in charleston, there are so many symbols here. how so ma
this kind of racial motivated terrorism only draws us closer together as a people in this city of charleston. >> sometimes i think we forget our history or maybe i'm guilty of that when i watched del walters' piece tonight and he talked about the slave market that is now a tourist attraction in the city of charleston. you can't get away from--go ahead. >> yes, we do have a market, but that market that you're probably referring to is really not the slave market. the slave market is...
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a suspect is in custody. robert ray joins us from charleston with more. robert. >> indeed, in custody, he was flown from north carolina with the f.b.i. landed here. he's in an isolation cell in charleston. tomorrow at 2:00 pm he'll have a bond hearing. in the meantime, as you see behind me, the church where the nine people were murdered last night, a vigil - pop-up vigils all over the city. out of my left ear i listen to two african-americans talking about what are the answers to what occurred here. they literally heard one say "i don't have an answer", that's really the situation on the ground right now. people are looking for peace, discussion, and attorney-general loretta lynch made this statement earlier today, to america. >> this is a crime that has reached into the heart of that community. the department of justice has opened a hate crime investigation into the shooting incident. the fbi, a.t.f., u.s. marshal service, civil rights division and the u.s. attorneys office are working closely with our state and local partners and stand ready to offer ev
a suspect is in custody. robert ray joins us from charleston with more. robert. >> indeed, in custody, he was flown from north carolina with the f.b.i. landed here. he's in an isolation cell in charleston. tomorrow at 2:00 pm he'll have a bond hearing. in the meantime, as you see behind me, the church where the nine people were murdered last night, a vigil - pop-up vigils all over the city. out of my left ear i listen to two african-americans talking about what are the answers to what...
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he will be joining us live from charleston south carolina in the next hour. >>> the u.s. department of justice is investigating the church massacre as a possible hate crime and a possible case of domestic terrorism. the number of hate crimes reported in the u.s. in 2012 was about the same as in 2004. it seems the situation is not improving. earlier i spoke with a former fbi special agent. >> we have to start picking these things out very carefully and looking to decide if it is a hate crime, terrorism or a person who is mentally deranged. the way we fix these problems is determined by the numbers. and i think this is something that we really have to look at closely. that's probably why you don't see a difference in these numbers. if it's just thrown out there constantly how can you fix that? i think that is something that we definitely have to start looking at. >> if we do look at those numbers, those numbers tell us there has been an increase in terms of crimes of hate motivated by race. whether that is a person's ancestral or social background or national affiliation. w
he will be joining us live from charleston south carolina in the next hour. >>> the u.s. department of justice is investigating the church massacre as a possible hate crime and a possible case of domestic terrorism. the number of hate crimes reported in the u.s. in 2012 was about the same as in 2004. it seems the situation is not improving. earlier i spoke with a former fbi special agent. >> we have to start picking these things out very carefully and looking to decide if it is a...
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Jun 19, 2015
06/15
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FOXNEWSW
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joining us now is the church leader from the presbyterian church in charleston. >> my first question oh would be how do you possibly even begin to reconcile what has happened here. these people innocently fraying inside -- praying inside of a church. this sus spkt going in and sitting with them for an hour before opening fire and killing nine of them. how do you reconcile that? >>> oo we don't understand why this could happen and this evil bull we know we are called to stand together in solidarity with brothers and sisters at mother emanuel church. >> you look at the way charleston is responding to this at this point standing together. we are looking at the video hand in hand in prayer on the street inside the churches. what message do you hope that sends through out the rest of the country? >> i hope it sends the message that we have a lot of work to do as brothers and sisters were called to come together during this time and lift each other up in prayer and love and that we are called to live in solidarity with one another as christ calls us to do so. so i think it's an opportunity
joining us now is the church leader from the presbyterian church in charleston. >> my first question oh would be how do you possibly even begin to reconcile what has happened here. these people innocently fraying inside -- praying inside of a church. this sus spkt going in and sitting with them for an hour before opening fire and killing nine of them. how do you reconcile that? >>> oo we don't understand why this could happen and this evil bull we know we are called to stand...
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Jun 18, 2015
06/15
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let me bring in msnbc's dave wagner. he's in charleston for us right now with the very latest. dave we know that authorities will update us here but at least at this hour we've been able to obtain the information that this suspect was caught in shelby, north carolina. that's nearly a four-hour drive away from the scene. what else are you hearing about when he was apprehended? >> reporter: we're not getting that -- i apologize for the voice because i'm losing it hear. but we are not getting the information here right now. police have been very selective about the information they've released. all along, 14 hours after this crime happened they finally tracked him down. shelby is in the charlotte, north carolina, area. it's kind of a suburban rural community near charlotte. and obviously they were able to track him we know last night when they said they were searching for a 21-year-old man. that was a clear indication to me that they had a specific suspect in mind last night. specifically said, he's 21 years old. to me it was like i knew at that point they probably had their suspe
let me bring in msnbc's dave wagner. he's in charleston for us right now with the very latest. dave we know that authorities will update us here but at least at this hour we've been able to obtain the information that this suspect was caught in shelby, north carolina. that's nearly a four-hour drive away from the scene. what else are you hearing about when he was apprehended? >> reporter: we're not getting that -- i apologize for the voice because i'm losing it hear. but we are not...