left vietnam. what he said is during the mid-'60s, when singapore had been independent, trying to decide whether to go communist or capitalist, he said based on the u.s. participate in vietnam, they went the capitalist model. i never heard that. what would your reaction be? >> the ambassador of singapore was here, and he talked about the independence of singapore and whether or not they were going to be choose to be a free country or some nis kocommunist. they looked at vietnam -- >> they looked at the u.s. participation in vietnam, which what he said was influential, and they went the capitalist model. >> they looked at the u.s. involvement in vietnam, and they decided to go with the capitalist route. have any of the panelists heard of this before? have thought on that? >> i was too young. really, i don't know much about politics. >> but i think a million people lacked the home in the north to the south that speak out about whether we like communism or not. most people in south vietnam and even so

laura, tell us how you came to vietnam. >> i hitchhiked to vietnam. vietnam was the last place i ever expected to go, unlike my wonderful colleagues. i had started college in 1968. i had been to every major protest movement, probably some that edith covered. i was deeply opposed to america's involvement in vietnam, and while i was taking my science requirement in california, i had gone to visit a friend in oregon and was hitchhiking back to the bay area with my teenage sister. we were told by the highway patrol we would be arrested if we didn't leave the interstate. i said to my sister, the next car has got to be it because we had no other way to get back there, and it was 100 degrees and she was in a bad mood. and i was thinking, what have i gotten us into. so i see a car coming down the highway. i see fishing poles. it's a green chevy. it's a hippy car. they'll star. the driver of the car turned out to be a pediatrician, and that was who i went to vietnam with two months after graduating. my plan for my life was to go to law school and get black pan

combat in vietnam. while getting americans out, of course, he pushes hard to prepare south vietnamese forces to take over the fighting. laird's dogged and ultimately successful pursuit of the role in vietnamzation raises, i think, some interesting questions, some difficult problems. it certainly provides another example of the dysfunctionlty of the nixon administration with a stronger president or maybe a weaker secretary of defense, might not have happened. and certainly in sympathy with laird's urge to get the united states out of vietnam, but it's also clear that unilateral withdrawal did weaken nixon's negotiating position and as jeremy suggested, south vietnam's ability to divide. i'm not sure of it, but my sense is that he dealt with this contra decision by persuading himself despite abundance evidence to the contrary that vietnamzation would work, that the south vietnamese would be able to defend themselves. if this was his belief, of course, he turned out to be wrong and he clung to this belief

we will stand in vietnam. what america is and was and hopes system for the as an important national asset -- telling the truth to this world, telling an exciting story is the voice of america. i classify this assignment in the front rank of importance to the freedom of the world. and that is why, today, i am proud to announce to you the name of the man who would direct the voice of america. he's a man whose voice and whose face and whose mind is known to this country and to most of the entire world. his name is john chancellor. mr. chancellor was born 38 years ago in chicago. for more than 15 years, he has been with the news department of the national broadcasting company. during that time, he has covered the world in vienna, moscow new york, berlin, and washington. since 1964, he has been with you, one of the white house correspondents. this, i think, is the first time in the history of the voice of america that a working newspaperman, a respected commentator and experienced independent reporter, has been giv

i think it was 40 or 50% that gay people came to vietnam. people start to know it now as a gay friendly destination. and the big -- more, bigger tour companies, they also advertise. like to get married, gay travel companies, and they advertise more and more as vietnam is gay friendly destination. >> we opened in 2001. the first country in the world. and i always, um, wanted to help to open the marriage. and we tried to promote a gay business association so we can organize and talk about what we want, what we want to change, and that we have a chain of if you travel in vietnam, stay here in the hotel, i want to go to another place, and there you have a gay friendly hotel, you can stay there. so it's a little bit more organized. >> anne said he wants to expand his business network in vietnam and eventually build a chain of gay friendly businesses in southeast asia. ♪ ♪ >> the l & g beer club used to cater mostly to gay men. but the new owner nguyen purchased it a year ago and re-opened it as a place specifically for lesbians and bisexuals.

this is their first lesson in vietnam, no big battles when expected. instead, a nagging war of attrition with primitive booby traps and snipers. only when he thinks the situation is favorable will the enemy show himself in force. so the long, hard task of fare reting out the communist enemy begins and the screaming eagles are good at their job. by the end of september they will kill 600 vietcong. it will be a difficult thing and some of these airborne fighting men will die, but the job for this time will be done. as the vanadvance elements begi rifg, they commence taking over the area secured by the screaming eagles. finally the men of the 101st airborne are fwree to head sout and establish their own home base in vietnam. from the central highlands the pri gad moves 170 miles to a toa coastal town. this is to be their permanent camp. though weary from their campaign in the hill country they work through october until the base has been set up. general westmoreland visits the screaming eagles on thanksgiving day 1965. he's pleased with their performance.

laura, tell us how you came to vietnam. >> i hitchhiked to vietnam. vietnam was the last place i ever expected to go, unlike my wonderful colleagues. i had started college in 1968. i had been to every major protest movement, probably some that edith covered. i was deeply opposed to america's involvement in vietnam, and while i was taking my science requirement in california, i had gone to visit a friend in oregon and was hitchhiking back to the bay area with my teenage sister. we were told by the highway patrol we would be arrested if we didn't leave the interstate. i said to my sister, the next car has got to be it because we had no other way to get back there, and it was 100 degrees and she was in a bad mood. and i was thinking, what have i gotten us into. so i see a car coming down the highway. i see fishing poles. it's a green chevy. it's a hippy car. they'll star. the driver of the car turned out to be a pediatrician, and that was who i went to vietnam with two months after graduating. my plan for my life was to go to law school and get black pan

. >> nixon's strategy on vietnam was to negotiate a peace agreement, but at the same time to vietnamize the conflict. >> we had to turn the war over to south vietnam, or it was going to be helpless. we couldn't fight their war forever. >> the south vietnamese were taught to think like americans, act like americans, fight like americans. >> south vietnam's president has said that he wanted nothing more than gradually to take over full responsibility for the war. >> president nixon started withdrawing troops almost right away. he had a lot to withdraw. there were over 500,000 men there. >> but he did this very slowly, as they supposedly shifted the burden of the fighting to the south vietnamese army. it was going so slowly, a lot of people were getting killed in the process, and there was no end to it. >> october 15th, 1969. vietnam moratorium day. >> surely this is a day unique in our history. never have so many of our people publicly and collectively manifested opposition to this country's involvement in a war. >> it wasn't hippies. it wasn't radicals and marxists. it was ordinary middl

into laos and hence into south vietnam. more recently, there has been added to this target system, railroads, highways, and bridges, which are the foundation of the infiltration routes. these strikes have been designed to increase the dependence on an already overburdened road transport system, by denying the use of the rail lines in the south. the summary of our objectives have been to force them off the rails on to the highways and off the highways onto their feet. [explosions] >> the fighting in south vietnam continues. although military targets in north vietnam are heavily hit, the numbers of infiltrated north vietnamese soldiers into the south steadily increases. the viet cong terrorizes the countryside continually with savage hit-and-run tactics. ♪ the rapid increase of infiltration begins to create an unfavorable manpower balance. secretary mcnamara addresses the nation on this serious problem. sec. mcnamara: according to the latest intelligence information available to us, the number of hard-core, full-time viet c

even in vietnam? >> sweet home. >> when you look back there and think it's been ten years how do you feel about it? >> not good. >> thanks for joining us, i'm joie chen. down here in the place where the river meets the sea, there's a strong spirit even katrina couldn't wash away. ten years after many of us, then young journalists, stood in the floodwaters and wondered whether this one of america's favorite cities would ever be the same. there's an official focus on resilience. on the lights that are back. the fun of the french quarter. the sense of community that has returned. still, look closer. there are still fragile fractures in many places in the city. our coverage begins with special correspondent soledad o'brien on what new orleans found exposed by katrina after the storm. >> reporter: in new orleans iconic jackson square, crowds of tourists gather. to take in the sights and sounds of the big easy. judging from the scene here, in the heart of the city, there seems to be no doubt, new orleans is

>> i met kissinger in vietnam when vietnam -- when kissinger went to vietnam at the request of lbj to see what the situation was. i was his control officer, which is rather a loose term. controlling henry kissinger is not an easy thing to do. >> it's an oxymoron. >> it's an oxymoron. nonetheless, i did it and tried to give him the best possible introduction to vietnam, including some meetings with john negroponte and others. and, of course, a briefing by myself, which may or may not have contributed to my knowledge. the point was that that was where i first met him on vietnam. before then, i had talked to him about numerous things. >> the two of you were in vietnam before kissinger became national adviser, before nixon became president. that's when you met? >> that's correct. dick and i were in the embassy in sigh govenlt i was a provincial reporting officer and cover aid particular area of south vietnam. when henry came out i was assigned the task of taking him to the northern part of north vietnam, the first corps area. that's how i got to know henry. then i went to the paris peace

i think it was 40 or 50% that gay people came to vietnam. people start to know it now as a gay friendly destination. and the big -- more, bigger tour companies, they also advertise. like to get married, gay travel companies, and they advertise more and more as vietnam is gay friendly destination. >> we opened in 2001. the first country in the world. and i always, um, wanted to help to open the marriage. and we tried to promote a gay business association so we can organize and talk about what we want, what we want to change, and that we have a chain of if you travel in vietnam, stay here in the hotel, i want to go to another place, and there you have a gay friendly hotel, you can stay there. so it's a little bit more organized. >> anne said he wants to expand his business network in vietnam and eventually build a chain of gay friendly businesses in southeast asia. ♪ ♪ >> the l & g beer club used to cater mostly to gay men. but the new owner nguyen purchased it a year ago and re-opened it as a place specifically for lesbians and bisexuals.

i mean having a national memorial for vietnam veterans. vienna on veterans don't need a memorial, they need better benefits, a few others made joy similar remarks and some smirked while the man stood silently. no one spoke in support and i felt sorry for him. the idea didn't deserve contempt. after the man sat down i kept looking at him and thinking about his idea. some vietnam veterans truly needed more benefits, most didn't. what all did need is some recognition and acknowledgment of their service in the war. i hadn't faced combat and hadn't been injured but many had. i met some of the best people in my life in vietnam and the military in general. many believed in president kennedy's exhortation to do for your country and bear any burden in the defense of freedom. i resent hearing this idealism, heroism, sacrifice dismissed with lightly veiled contempt by the yuppie professional class of washington. especially galls me since my fellow denizens of the legal profession had demonstrated no special claim on values like morality, courage and

vietnam war. then a look at the longest lasting weekly magazine "the nation" on its 150 anniversary. later a discussion about the relationship between the cia and the press. you're watching american history tv in primetime on c-span3. >>> now, a panel of women journalists discuss their experiences in covering the vietnam war. they talk about the challenges they face in a field of journalism that previously excluded women. the museum hosted this hour and 20 minute event. >> good evening, ladies and gentlemen. welcome to the museum's theater. i'm john maynard, director of programs here at the museum. in may, the museum opened reporting vietnam, a provocative new exhibit marking the anniversary of the vietnam war. the museum explores the stories of how journalists brought news about the war to a divided nation. tonight we are so thrilled and honored to be joined by four courageous women who covered the vietnam war. their stories are both unique and fascinating, and we look forward to hearing from the

the vietnam war. the museum explores the stories of how journalists brought news about the war to a divided nation. tonight we are so thrilled and honored to be joined by four courageous women who covered the vietnam war. their stories are both unique and fascinating, and we look forward to hearing from them. our panel is denby faucet, who quit letter job as a reporter for the honolulu star bulletin. she was hired by the honolulu advertiser and was sent to saigon and reported on everything from marine combat patrols to buddhist uprising. another used her $500 winnings from the game show "password" to buy a one-way plane ticket to saigon. she covered the war as a freelance reporter. she reported from many battle scenes, including one where she was wounded while interviewing marines for wrr radio. edith letterer was the first woman assigned full-time to the associated press staff reporting the vietnam war. she has covered the 1973 middle east war, the war in afghanistan, the first gulf war, the conflict

my question is, what are your thoughts about vietnam and the war before and after you came to vietnam, becoming reporters? >> in a sound bite, i can say i went with all the answers and i left with the questions. i saw the war in black and white before i went there, and when i came back, after knowing vietnamese and seeing more sides of the pictures, there are many shades of gray. >> great answer. i think i might have to use that in other circumstances. >> my name is dan. i'm in the theater. i have a huge military family background. my question for edith. based on your pow experience, and i'm curious, given recent comments, my question to you would be, what advice would you give or say to somebody who says that pows are not war heros, because they've been captured, given everything that you've seen? >> that's a loaded question. >> well, you know. >> but i believe that anyone who puts his or her life on the line, ready to sacrifice for their country, in any shape or form, is basically a hero in the broader sense of the term. and for those who were inpris imprisoned and captures, suffere

it's a vietnam story. when our most traumatic and divisive war ended, i should say the most divisive and traumatic since the civil war in the 1860s, when that ended, americans wanted nothing more to do with vietnam. so a lot of stories were lost. as a result, or at least not brought to the forum. the kirk, a little story, insignificant story, on the contrary. this is a vietnam story very much worth telling, and that's why i made a documentary about it. that's why i wrote "the lucky few." in 2009, i completed the final book in a trilogy i had written about navy medicine at war. it told a story, at least the last in the trilogy, called "navy medicine in vietnam," told a story of a war in my generation, vietnam. the last chapter was entitled, "full circle." it focused on the humanitarian staff that navy medical personnel played in caring for the thousands of refugees who fled south vietnam in 1975, when the nation ceased to exist. as the war reached its tragic climax in may of 1975, a task force of u.s. navy

the vietnam veterans memorial. it was completed in 1982 after much debated competition. good afternoon everybody. thank you so much for coming out this afternoon. i am one of the co-owners and wow, i wasn't expecting that. thank you very you very much, that is very kind. my husband and co-owner is not here, he wishes he could be but i'm back half of him and the rest of our staff we are delighted to have you here for this event. it's such a fascinating book and topic. before we get started i need to make a couple of housekeeping announcements. the first of which is if you happen to have a device, of any sort that makes noise, we would be grateful if you would turn it off or silence it or get it to a point where it won't make noise. the second thing is for those of you who have been to our events, we usually ask you to pull up chairs and put them to the side, but you are very lucky and you do not need to do that because you're the second of three events we are having so we are leaving the chairs out. we will do a sig

communist north vietnam and anti-communist south vietnam. two new countries, like the old west germany and east germany. this, like the two germany's, became a focal point in the cold war, a competition between united states on one side and the soviet union on the other. the soviet union was helping the north vietnamese and we increasingly were helping the south vietnamese. that is how it was portrayed in the u.s. and the west, a cold war battle between the americans and the soviets and the regimes they were backing. we realized with more time what was really going on in vietnam was a civil war among competing peoples there. and this is the great difficulty that we encountered in vietnam, when he tried to intervene in a civil war that we did not recognize as such. so, david halberstam and a number of other young correspondents began to write about what was going wrong in vietnam. not that the u.s. was want to be there, but that the south vietnamese forces did not seem to want to fight, did not seem capable of fighting. they were losing groun

what is a rough rider in the vietnam era? it's from the first marine division and south of and why are in the notorious and treacherous path anybody that went on the convoys. it was sometime before they told me i was going to the transport battalion. highway one was the main highway in vietnam that stretched from the d-delta through the central highlands and then where i was also a north. and i believe it's still called highway one. my job was to convoy commander who is responsible for everything the convoy does and if there's an ambush they get through the ambush with minimum trouble as possible. >> it was made up from anywhere of six to seven trucks. the biggest one i was on muslim hundred 40 trucks. = all places in the service, south vietnamese. we tried to get them to break it up going over the three or four day period they turned us down and by sergeant told them we are going to get hit and the sergeant took a pencil and marked three places on a map and decided they are either going to get us here, here or here and they

saigon, the capital city of south vietnam, falls. the 15-year-long vietnam war comes to an end. now, 40 years later, economic reforms have brought remarkable development to vietnam. it's a young vibrant country. less than half the population experienced the war, but many vietnamese still bear the scars. [ speaking foreign language ] ' . >>> agent orange is a chemical defol yapt. the united states and south vietnamese armies sprayed large quantities over the jungle. their aim was to strip the trees bare. without cover, enemy soldiers couldn't carry out attacks. agent orange contains dieoxin, a substance toxic to the human body. this family has been suffering from the effects for three generations. t imt et is a former soldier who was exposed to agent orange on the battlefield. soon after being discharged, he began experiencing live and kidney problems. he's been on daily medications ever since. his son started suffering joint problems at the age of 6 and eventually lost the use of his hands and feet. >> translator: i had a sickness. none of the people around me wanted anything to

in vietnam escalated steadily throughout the 1960s. north vietnam responded by calling up more and more young men to fight. as a result, this scene captured by an indian crew, became a daily event. the village is bidding farewell to its sons. they were among the estimated two million young north vietnamese men sent into battle. many headed to the battlefield after only three months of basic training. another scene filmed by the japanese agency. but there is no record of where the footage was taken. the documentation was lost. who are these village youths? what were they thinking as they headed off to battle? did they ever return home? 40 years after the guns fell silent, we went looking for these young men. >> april 2015, our crew begins in vietnam's capital of hanoi. our first interview is with doan, who is 66. during the war, north vietnamese authorities assigned him to act as an interpreter. two interpreters were assigned full time to the office. we asked him to view the film. it seems he hasn't seen it before. and he can't recall g

but it was made during the vietnam war. and the question of what alton was doing with that movie is, it's really more about the attitudes, the feeling of the vietnam era war, the culture of the people watching the movie then. and strangely enough when the movie turned into a t.v. show, what we had was a womanizer who became a feminist, and the attitudes changed in relation to the current culture and what was both accessible and also admirable about people who are in that kind of madness we call war. the issue of war films often has settled on such issues is, is this an anti-war film, or a pro-war film? almost no director will say or admit to making a pro-war film. people just aren't happy with wars. nonetheless, within any war there is something to be shown and there's some kind of courage. "rambo" is an example of a movie that took the vietnam era and essentially made it palatable and sellable for the american viewing public. what sylvester stallone taught us was that even though most people were not happy with the way the

what impact did that have on vietnam, if any? >> we do know the chinese weighed in with the vietnamese, but not in a way that would be overly pressuring. this was to have our relationship with china not complicated by the vietnam war with american troops on the border. they wanted to balance the soviet union and we knew we wouldn't be an effective global balance. the chinese had an interest in having us end this war. we tried to make clear to them, henry did i think with success, that we're willing to get out and get our prisoners back and cease-fire, not willing to overthrow the government. it's not in our interest to make the u.s. look like an unreliable ally because you want us to help balance the soviets. we know the chinese took some trips to hanoi and did weigh in. they probably said wait the americans out, get them out of vietnam, don't insist on manipulation in the political settlement. in a few years saigon will fall in your laps anyway. goo a -- go ahead, excuse me >> no, go ahead. >> i don't want to dominate too much h

but for me, italy's quÉbec to vietnam i had -- it always came back to vietnam. i had studied vietnam. i had but the middle east aside. when i came back to it several years later, i suddenly thought, you know, i think i might have in wrong about this israel thing. i went to my fathers library. i read the works of theodore personnel, the father of modern zionism. i found that he wrote these letters begging for support from -- guess who -- cecil rhodes, the great british colonialist. saying to him, i know your interest is africa. mine is a little slice of arabia. your concern is within whisman. my concern is with -- with in which meant. my concern is with jews. both projects are something colonial. when i read that, i thought, jeez, i think i was wrong about this stuff. nobody told me this was a colonial project. i should looking for more information. that led me directly to edward said. edward lived here for many years. his family group. . he is very much -- his family grew up here. he is very much a product of the united states. the is where i came to see questio

and vietnam, vietnam key to the president of asia. >> the united states and vietnam would have had reconciliation anyway it wouldn't be this fast or steep were it not for china. china, as with the provocative as sort of created a coalition against it from india in the south all the way up to japan in the north. and basically vietnam is looking for big power sponsors. they've had a great relationship with india and wants a better relationship with the united states. >> is there an indication that all of this captured the attention of beijing? i am sure beijing watches everything closely, not only would the chinese be looking at kerry's visit to hanoi, they would have seen a visit from the generatery to washington. this is a meeting that broke protocol because the general secretary has no government post, but had a meeting with president obama in the oval office. the chinese would have noticed that the united states was willing, really to go beyond diplomatic niceties and establish a relationship with vietnam and have the meeting. the chinese have got to be concerned. hanoi and washington are going

to for me, it all came back vietnam. i studied vietnam. i was focused on vietnam. mobilizing on vietnam. i put the middle east aside. when i came back to it several later, i suddenly thought, you know, i think i might have been wrong about the israel thing. went to my father's library, he good jewish girl, and i worked with the founder of modern zionism. letters e had written begging the support from, guess who? the great british colonialists saying to him, your africa, mine is a slice of arabia. englishmen, my concern is jews. why am i coming to you for support? why is your project like my project, because they are both something colonial. read that and i thought, hey, i think i was wrong about this stuff. told me it was a colonial project. started reading this and it led me to edward said who is one f the great american intellectual tradition as well intellectual tradition. he grew up here, he's a product of the united states. t was in working with edward that i came to see the question of palestine as fundamentally an so i changed ion how i understood my own wor

they were hoping to close down the center, people participating were anti-vietnam war, there were four of them. gang and his the brother, and david, and leo, or the four people who decided to bomb sterling hall. likeused a van, very much timothy mcveigh and obama city. -- oklahoma city. they were not successful at blowing up the research center. they took out the physics lab and the first floor. they killed one of the postdoc students. this finding was at the entrance to the center probably on the second floor. it was saved after the bombing by a professor. to aesearch center moved new building, the 12th floor to be safe after the bombing. they did not take the sign with them. , and whenssor hid it he retired five or six years ago, he offered it to us as a memento. >> the latest development that makeome up with a positive shall we say on the vehicle that was involved was that which was six -- suspected earlier, that was a 1967 falcon lucks club wagon.- deluxe club ae vehicle is described like bull's, built in a box shape -- bulls wagon bus. >> this was used as part of the incident -- e

what is a rough rider in the vietnam era question that. >> a rough rider in the vietnam era and the first marine division, and we ran the trucks up and down highway one, right out of the neighing and north through the notorious. anybody who want on those convoys one of the dangerous pass in vietnam, they just nicknamed up the rough riders. sometime before i got there in 66 or 67 when i got there they told me is going to be 11th motor transport those are the ref writers. >> what is highway one. >> that's the main highway in vietnam that stretched from the delta, through the central highlands, into three core and then into ichor which is where i was from the neighing. all the way north to the dmz. it was the main highway. it was just called highway one. i believe it so-called highway one. >> and what was your job. >> my job was the convoy commander. i was responsible for everything the convoy does or fails to do. if there's an ambush, to get through the ambush. if there's minute with as minimum trouble as possible. >> what made up a convoy? >> a convoy was made up of anywhere from six to se

i have vietnam veterans in my family, i'm very motivated by what i learned from the vietnam veterans in my family years ago back in the late 70s and early 80s. and trying to ensure they have the services they need. from the shocking reality at the shameful way they were treated when they came home from war and the services they needed they dnts get. there's a major epidemic of those suffering from post traumatic stress. also within the military nonprofit support space. i think part of my feeling about this is that with the thousand of military charities there are out there. like service dogs, for example. who thankfully, there are those military nonprofits. we all know the challenges that the v.a. has. wonderful people working in the v.a., but it's a challenging environment for our veterans. they're trying to address needs on multiple fronts. the organization is here today, thankfully, there are services out there being provided and i encourage anyone who is seeking service or help from the iraq and afghanistan community to continue passing on the information of where the services ar

i urge you to read his forgotten power of vietnam protest. we refused to allow the vietnamese to vote for reunification in 1956 for fear they would vote for ho chi min. many people sadly believe the pervasive postwar myth that veterans returning home from vietnam were commonly spat upon by protesters. as christian says, it became an article of faith that the most shameful aspect of the vietnam war was the nation's failure to embrace and honor returning soldiers. honoring returning soldiers doesn't make the war honorable, be a vietnam or afghanistan or iraq. [applause] and the best way to honor our soldiers is to bring them safely home. as james fellowes writes regarding military members as heroes makes up for condemning them to unwinnable missions. the pentagon has chosen to commemorate the vietnam war is a multiyear, multi-dollar thank vet for ae as afghan rainy said, thank you to heroes discouraged dissent. we practice dissent then, we must practice dissent now. we must, as dr. king taught us, move beyond the prophesying of smooth patriotis

brian: john mccain spent five years in prison in vietnam. back to some vietnam history. a lot of your involvement in antiwar stuff started with vietnam. here is marcus raskin, who invented the institute of policy studies. he is now 81 years old. a panel discussion of people who were antiwar in vietnam. watch a little bit of this. thatere's certain things we should be very happy about. first of all, that we are all together, and that -- [applause] all, that you should always hire a good lawyer. [laughter] don't have a good lawyer, you are in trouble. is, you need street feet. you need to be able to organize from the street, to get people in the offices to hear what is going on in the street. so there's this dialectic, if you will, between those two relationships. that dialectic becomes the basis upon which real change can occur. not forever. never forever. not for 10,000 years. give us a few generations and let us begin again. let us move a tiny bit further ahead. brian: as you know, he worked for george bonnie, who was an adviser to kennedy and johnson. didn't get along