the russian state copper in the machine -- propaganda machine contributed by using russian public funded outlets. moscow's has long sought to undermine u.s. led liberal democratic order. russia, like its soviet predecessor, has a history of conducting covert influenced campaigns focused on u.s. presidential elections. they have used intelligence andcers, influence agents, press placements to discourage candidates perceived as hostile to the kremlin. reflectsbehavior russia's more aggressive cyber posture in recent years, which poses a major threat to u.s. military, diplomatic, commercial, and critical infrastructure networks, as well as our elections. in 2016 activities demonstrated a significant , levelion in directness of activity, and scope of effort compared to previous operations. we assess moscow will apply the lessons learned in the 2016 in the future against u.s. allies. left in my 53 years or so of the intelligence business. i believe the level of professional tradecraft required to put this report together has given me great confidence that we have it right here. i am open to y

is the connection between russian organized crime and the russian state. well, if we can't specifically identify that, we can look at a visible fact that isn't happening and that is russia is not cooperating with the united states. in criminal investigations of people living in their country who have breached particular databases within this country, whether it be a retail store or other kinds of economic activity within this country, if they're not prepared to do that, how can we assuredly separate russian organized crime from the russian state? it offers us, i think, a really important indication of how we need to think about russia as we go forward in cyber space, not to mention all the other things that are going on. but, take a look at our critical infrastructure from electricity, oil and national gas, the financial sector, the retail sector, all of these have areas of vulnerability and all of these are suspectible to the standard practices that any cyber criminal or state would use. we know fairly clearly that the entry into the dnc came through a fi

the russian hacking on the stolen information. russia's use of state owned media and other means to amplify real and fake news to further the goal. contact between russian government and agents and associate of any campaign and candidate. i have written to the witnesses here today, asking them to cooperate with us in this investigation. turnover as many document as quickly as possible. it is equally important that the intended ministration that those folks will take director clapper and your brennan's roles going forward will continue to cooperate in this effort. it is my hope will remain the first to to declassify while protecting sources and methods. the american people deserve to know as soon as possible that their elected representatives have taken a close look at "the intelligence report" of what we consider today. they deserve to know whether we concur or not and we are prepared to respond to the threats outlined in the assessment. the action -- the president took recently in response to russian activities in a per red first

the subject was russian hacking and other issues. upon that meeting, u.s. intelligence agencies in washington released a report that concluded that president putin of russia ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the presidential election. after the meeting in new york, president trump released a statement acknowledging the possibility that russia had hacked american targets including the democratic national committee. joining me from washington is representative adam schiff, the democrat from california and ranking democrat on the house intelligence committee. he is a member of the gang of 8 consisting of democratic and republican leaders and intelligence committee members briefed privately by the same group that saw president-elect trump earlier today here in new york. pleased to have congressman schiff back on this program we should begin by talking about who exactly is the gang of eight. >> the gang of eight are the top leadership in the house and the senate, nancy pelosi, senator schumer, the share and ranking in house intelligence and senate i

russian people want. vladimir putin just tried to distract russian people from their real problems, like inequality and poverty. we have 23 million russian citizens living below the line of poverty and he's distracting them from this problem with his imperial delusion about making russia great again, and all this stuff. well, you call it an imperial delusion. vladimir putin would say to you, getting back crimea, which is ours, and historically was always ours, and means so much to the people in this country, that's not a delusion, that is something that he has delivered for the russian people. i would say that everyone in russia would be much happier if vladimir putin delivered some more wealth to the russian people, notjust to his oligarchs, because what is happening in russia in terms of economy, and i will use the favourite term of mr trump, it's a disaster what's going on inside of the country, and, yes, putin has a very aggressive behaviour towards everyone in this world now but it's just because he

elections and russian engagement in previous u.s. elections going all the way back to the kgb putting a person, recruiting a democrat party volunteer or activist, you don't give details even on jimmy carter's campaign in the 1970s, moving forward. tell me about the differences in aggressiveness and style, if the russians and then back to even the soviets before have been involved in our elections, since the 1970s and before, tell me the degree of difference in this one versus having been engaged in others. >> the history of this goes back to the '60s, in which they, russians attempted to fund certain candidates, parlay certain lines of opinion or lines of view, and, of course had, in the day radio broadcasts, that sort of thing they would do, and as the technology has increased, they have gotten more tools available to them, they have brought their spectrum of things that they have done. what is unique and what is disturbing about this election, 2016, is the aggressiveness and the variety of tools they used and their activism in tryi

russian active member -- russian active measures is not new to the members of this committee. to better understand the scale and scope of these efforts and the intentions behind them. each of our businesses have appeared before a closed session to discuss this topic in a bipartisan basis. committee and its sister committee that put forward unclassified and classified proposals to address these , some work has been done. but to address this challenge to government will require a whole of government approach. i look forward to the details on the intelligence community assessment. intelligence can conclude the classified portions of this assessment give me no reason to doubt the findings contained within the product. we owe it to our colleagues and american people to do an independent and bipartisan review of the report and its conclusions. therefore i have constructed -- i have instructed committee to carry out the enforcement. we will ask each of the witnesses to provide committee access to the intelligence that contributed to the assessment. i want to ensure my committee that

russians. a russian loan is public knowledge, public information, and i can guarantee you as she prepares for the french election coming up this spring, one would expect a similar arrangement where the russians will be loaning her funds for her campaign going forward. the question is, what do we do about this with our european allies? we need to address a common vulnerabilities and bolster and strengthen the institutions in which we have invested for many decades. and we have to develop new capabilities to do with these challenges. what is our president doing right now? he is moving in the exact opposite direction. president trump is tilting towards russia, towards moscow. he speak very highly of russian leadership, of president putin personally, and talked about meeting with him to have some sort of warming in our bilateral ties. he has said very disparaging things about the european union, about specific european allies, about the nato alliance. and so, you can imagine, many of you -- this is

both the russian government and russian media are denying any culpability. we are somewhat restricted because of our concerns about showing our hand, showing our those are speak, and the conclusions we feel strongly about. he knows that, he is a professional intelligence officer and he probably understands our approach to the protection of sources and methods, so he can just deny it and get away with it. ed -- r red a if i could add, i had conversation with the director of ssb, and i told him clearly that russia was playing with fire, and it would be roundly condemned not just by the u.s. government but by the american people and he said he would relay that to mr. putin of the time. he denied any activity, but i made it clear that we were on to him. final point. there was an effort made against the democrat and republican political campaigns but one was much more aggressive than the other in terms of finding ways into the servers of not only that dnc but individual democratic operatives. goal what you posit as the of vladimir putin, to discredit secretary cl

charlie: could you tell anything about an intelligence report that says russian is -- russian officials celebrated trumps victory? rep. schiff: i can't go beyond the four corners of the public report, but i think there were certainly images on television of celebrations. i don't think there is any question that this was the outcome the russians wanted. it was the outcome the russians got, and they would be crazy not to be thrilled with it. charlie: does intelligence suggests there was a direct link to vladimir putin, or is it more in the manner that the president expressed in his press conference, little happens in russia without vladimir putin's approval? charlie: i can't -- rep. schiff: i can't go into the specific evidence, but i think the intelligence community believes this was directed by putin. the inference is very strong here, as the president said, putin runs this come -- this by this country i mean russia. there is not a lot of freelancing. it is unimaginable that this would not come at his direction. charlie: can you tell us anything about the fact that trump demanded the at

everything we have talked about here this morning russian acts of intimidation, russian aggression, russian hacking, cyber attacks, this is in essence old news to our friends in europe. they have been experiencing this for years. they have been warning us about it. and they have been trying very hard to work with the united states to develop new tools, new sets of relationships to address our common and shared v vulnerabilities. and the aim of russia for both sides of the atlantic is crystal clear. the fundamental aim of the russians is to weaken the rules based order. all of the institutions that europe and the united states have spent 70 years creating, the whole alphabet soup of nato, the u.n., the eu, the lis goes on and on, russia wants to undermine those institutions and russia wants to divide europe from within and divide europe from the united states. how is it doing that? first, it is trying to interfere in the political process in europe and here. it does that by getting involved directly in elections as we have seen here in the united states. but now germany, now that it has an e

if youe the russian government if you're a russian official and anything the u.s. intelligence agencies, anything that unconfirmed dossier turns out to be true, you act, right? because that's a problem for you and the russian government. because how did the west find out? you then have to figure out how the u.s. government how american intelligence, how western intelligence sources got hold of some true thing the russian government secretly did. if the russian denials were correct and they had nothing to do with our elections they'd have no response to any of these allegations in the west, that russia helped elect donald trump but if any of it was right they have to find the mole. they have a responsibility in russia to find out how that true information about their own actions got out. who leaked it? who knew what the russian government was doing and fed that true secret information to the west? what we have been watching for in part is russian efforts to plug the hole. find the leaker, find the mole, punish someone who had access to real russian government inform

the subject, russian hacking and other issues. following the meeting, intelligence agencies in washington report that president putin ordered a campaign in 2016 aimed at the presidential election. after the meeting in new york, president elect trump lisa statement that acknowledged the possibility that russia had hacked american targets coming -- hacked american targets in the democratic national committee. joining me from washington is representative adam schiff, the democrat from california and the ranking democrat on the house intelligence committee. he is a member of the republican and democratic leaders and committee members that were briefed privately by the same group that saw president-elect trump earlier in new york. i am pleased to have you back on the program. who is the gang of eight? >> they are the top leadership in the house and the senate, nancy pelosi, senator schumer, the ranking chairman of house intelligence and senate intelligence committees. charlie: you are the minority member of the intelligence committee?

distinctionareful between the russian government and the russian people. we cannot let america's relationship with a nation of 140 million people, people have made remarkable contributions to the world, who have a proud history rich in culture, who we fervently wish to see prosper, be defined solely by the nefarious actions of a tiny subset and their government. and yet, we have less contact with ordinary russians today than at any time in decades. this is no accident. in the past few years, the russian government has closed 28 u.s. government-funded american corners, which offered free libraries, language training, and events about american .ulture to russian citizens it has shuttered the american center in moscow, which has hosted 50,000 russian visitors per year. it has expelled independent nonprofits like the national endowment for democracy and open society foundation, which had spent decades fostering civil society and the rule of law in russia. as the kremlin closes off these outlets for reaching the russian people, we must find others to take their

the russian anti—doping agency was part of that. a dirty athlete and a crusader for a clean sport, it was an unlikely combination. but two months later they got married. somehow they stuck together despite frequent rows about yulia's doping. he believes in clean sport and is totally committed to it. he sees corruption and he is told, that is how it is and you're not going to change it. he realises that he is probably not, but he faces a choice, do i confront this and try to expose it or do ijust go with the tide? he decided to confront it, to swim against the tide. so vitaly wrote to the russian anti—doping agency about the culture. you cannot make a mistake in the 800 metres, it is fatal. it is the fastest tactical race in the programme. meanwhile his doping wife went from strength to strength. at the world championships in south korea, yulia stepanova competed alongside some of the finest runners in the sport. but her performance aroused suspicions. i thought she would not be a threat at all. i led the whole way in the semifinal

rt is a russian propaganda channel and i think openly a russian propaganda channel. but what is the appropriate response of the united states' government to stories that appear on rt and is that something that requires separate and special action by the government of the united states beyond much of what the united states routinely does in its own government-led broadcasting and information efforts which we call public diplomacy. that is a third and final one. the last thing i want to say is to talk a little bit about our political climate. i will really quite worried about the political climate surrou surrounding russia and the u.s.-russia relationship in the united states. i think we have reached a level of discourse and a low level of discourse that we really have not seen since the mccarthy period in the united states. we have people running around looking for russian sympathizers in the united states here and there. and there is what looks like to me a version of six degrees of separation from vladimer putin in which anybody who has had contact with the russian

the russians, on the other hand -- it was no longer the russian government of 1992. there were different constituencies. i looked at my russian colleagues to tell a lot better what was going on. there were those in the russian government who did not like the tax exemptions or the liability protections or the privileges and immunities, the audits and the examinations. all of the things that were extremely important both to the administration and to congress. something else that i changed was -- we did not have a big interagency group. it was the very famous jack beard and i who pretty much worked the renewal negotiation. it was looking very bad, because we were at loggerheads. i had no flexibility, because of congress, and then my counterpart from the ministry of foreign affairs said, "stay home. give us a couple of weeks." basically what happened was a coalition of the foreign ministry, the minister of defense, and i think it was the ministry of atomic energy at the time. those ministries with whom we had very good, productive projects, working relationships, and the

crime and the russian state. if we can't specifically identify that, we can look at a visible fact that isn't happening and that is russia is not cooperating with the united states in criminal investigations of people living in their country who have breached particularly databases within this country, whether it be a retail store or other kinds of economic activity within this country. .. >> areas of vulnerability, and all of these are susceptible to the standard practices that any cyber criminal or state would use. we know very clearly that the entry into the dnc came to a fishing expedition to somebody outside of the dnc that got out into the dnc database. we know that somebody clicked on a site that opened up john podesta's e-mail when it was a fishing expedition. that is the standard entry point that allows malware to get into systems as in the case of target, to find its way from the hvac vendor into the target database and into the personal identifiable information that was stolen. as a result of that. all

russian people. and it is russian journalists and human rights defenders who have been harassed, beaten, and even killed for uncovering their government's abuses. so we must be careful to distinguish between the russian government and the russian people. we cannot let america's relationship with a nation of more than 140 million people -- people who have made remarkable contributions to the world, who have a proud, rich history and culture, and whom we fervently wish to see prosper -- be defined solely by the nefarious actions of a tiny subset in their government. and yet we have less contact with ordinary russians than at any time in decades. this is no accident. in the past few years, the russian government has closed 28 u.s. government-funded american corners which offered free , libraries, language training, and events about american culture to russian citizens, and has shuttered the american center in moscow, which hosted over 50,000 russian visitors per year. it has also expelled u.s. governmen

with the russian government. it can be see to forget that virtually all the taxes the russian government is using to my democracy abroad are ones that they fine-tuned at home on the russian people to devastating effect. after all when russian soldiers are killed fighting in a conflict in eastern ukraine that the government denies it had any role and, it is russian mothers, widows and orphans who are denied the benefits and recognition they deserve his family members of soldiers to the mafia and the russian government uses to sow corruption abroad and it is russian journalist and human rights defenders have been harassed, beaten and even killed for uncovering their government abuses. so we must be very careful to distinguish between the russian government and the russian people. we cannot let america's relationship with the nation of more than 140 million people, people who have made remarkable contributions in the world who have a proud and rich history and culture and whom we fervently wish to see prosper be def

yulia stepanova, russian champion, world —class yulia stepanova, russian champion, world—class athlete turned whistle—blower. world—class athlete turned whistle-blower. her contribution to sport and the fight against doping is beyond comparison. nobody has done more for the anti—doping movement. branded a traitor in her motherland. she and her husband exposed cheating in russia on a colossal scale. now they live in secret, fearing for their lives. unlikely to ever return home. yulia stepanova. .. the young family seem completely at home in this average american claim. no one gives them a second glance. this is yulia stepanova and vitaly stepanov, amberley athlete and an anti—doping officer. —— and elite athlete. their shocking revelations exposed the dirty secrets of russian athletics. three damning reports commissioned by the world anti—doping agency. much of them based on the testimony of this couple. it found that many athletes have taken illegal drugs between 2011 and 2015. four years sports competitions have been hijacked by the russians. coaches and athletes have be

. >> senator jack reed suggeing russians -- listen to this one, the russians deliberately left their fingerprint on the attack so we would know it was them. >> russia's involvement in these intrusions does not appear to be in any doubt. >> we know that president obama received a classified briefing and james clapper will released a declassified vsion next week that we all can see. there is a lot of work going on at this hour. i want to bring in our guests. hans, what headlines have stuck out the most? >> there are three dynamics in plachere. one, there's this cat-and-mouse game where senators, with the exception of senator cotton are trying to get intelligence officials to say rus was behind this, we know we can prove it and that's what the report will say. there's a dynamic to that that's similar where you're seeing them try to goad mr. clapper to saying negative things about mr. trump and getting him to respond to intelligence officials bringing up the iraq war. clapper claim closest by saying he thought the rack war was a red herring. and the third dynamic and potentially e most l

russian military intelligence. how was crowdstrike so sure the cyber spies were russian? what is their proof? this is the actual piece of code deployed in the dnc. this is indications of internet connections that it opens up to connect to the mothership. wow, so this is your cyber equivalent of the burglar‘s footsteps in the snow? yes, looking at this evidence and how this code was written and how we have seen in previous attacks, looking at the totality of that evidence in the course of investigation, it gave us confidence that this was indeed russian intelligence. what is so extraordinary is that during the campaign, trump egged on the russian hackers. russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e—mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. let's see if that happens, that would be nice. there is no doubt that russia was listening. welcome to the citadel of cyber war. the people who directed the hacking of american democracy are spread across moscow. but at least some of the prime suspects are based here

no doubt in my mind that russians interfered, that john podesta's emails were hacked by the russians and not some 13-year-old kid or 400-pound guy and that the dnc was compromised by the russians and it seems pretty clear that wikileaks got it from the russians. it didn't affect the outcome, but they tried to affect our elections. he'll be the defender of the free world. in a couple of weeks donald trump will be the defender of the free world, you should let everybody know in america, republicans and democrats that you should make russia pay a price and they need to pay a price and i don't care what their motives were. >> why do you think he continues to question intelligence on this? >> i think he's worried about it undermining -- >> you think it's personal? >> because he said it's time to move on. remember when he was asked about, maybe on new year's eve, let's just get on with our lives. >> here's my retort to that. our lives are built around the idea that we're free people, that we go to the ballot box and we have political contests outside of foreign interference. you can't go o

if you're russian, you can be killed. if you're russians, your civic rights would not be protected. if you're ukrainian or ultra- nationalist, okay, you will be in the parliament, you will be the president, everything will be to you. but here, if you're russian, bombs, artillery and killings will be answer. this is, we're sorry, we answer strongly no. >> narrator: it is a sentiment that has played well at home. on the streets where they demonstrated against him only two years earlier, they were now singing his praises. meanwhile, the united states was calling for strong sanctions against russia, but in the capitals of europe, there was reluctance. >> we keep on trying to bring mr. putin in. we invite him to our summit meetings. we try and treat russia as a normal country. and we think we're trying to calm things down, but in fact, what we're doing is we're stoking things. we're giving mr. putin the impression that we're not to be taken seriously, and he continues to push us harder and harder and harder, and that's extremely dangerous. >> narrator: but then in july 2014, one violent

it may have originate with a russian versus. it also said that groups that wanted hillary clinton to win may have been behind the investigations itself. and most importantly, it says that the fbi is trying to confirm it. nothing has been don firmed. i have to say as an american citizen regardless of your party, if you don't like politics at all, we should be concerned that intelligence officials leaked to the press and won't go and tell the president-elect or the president of the united states of united states, mr. obama what the information is. >> but the press report was about them going to the president. >> and it says that they never briefed him on it. that they appended to two pages on the bottom. >> i believe it said that they did brief him on it. >> he has said that he's not aware of it. >> okay, that concerns me. [ laughter ] >> okay. that's okay. >> no, i understand -- >> and it's not true. >> what is thought true? that i'm concerned? >> no -- >> i assure you that i am. [ laughter ] >> to be clear what we're reporting j

. >> mellisa: p senator john mccain calling russian hacking a act of war. they are grilling the top intel officials on whether russian hackers tried to interfere with the national election. they are standing by those claim and adding it was part of a wider russian cyber effort. john mccain well left the hearing more sure than ever that russian president vladimar putin played a key role in all of it. >> is there any evidence that vladimar putin directed this. >> clapper just testified. >> he said high level. >> he said the highest level. >> the highest level. and you are confident that putin was directing the operation. >> no one believes that anything happens in russian behavior without vladimar putin involved. >> mellisa: leland vitter is standing by. and catherine herridge is following the hearing and senator mccain. that's that, we know what happened? >> reporter: the witnesses testified they were more confident than they were in october that it was directed interferrance and came from the highest levels of the russian government. they testified it was a

judging by the reactions we're getting on russian state news agencies and russian officials we're talking to. the sputnik news agency latching on the tweet from donald trump where he questions why the fbi did not directly look at the dnc servers. claiming that the fbi usually outsources something to a company that they claim is against russia. one of the things we did last night as the senate armed services committee hearings were going on, we got a message from the spokesperson for vladimir putin. he texted me the following. he said we have suggested cooperation on combats cyber threats numerous times. it was rejected. we are sick and tired of the irresponsibly blaming everything on our country. if there is a need for an enemy, why not try someone else. you can see the frustration. the russians continuing to say it wasn't them. what they said, russia was spreading fake news to influence public opinion in america. a senior lawmakers coming out with a tweet saying it was america spreading fake news. he claims the intelligence provided now is one large fake. miguel. >> fred, if the goal for

. >> pdf expert on the russians. on the defense and intelligence side, these proposed is not in the who will not accept compromise. they know what they are doing. this is a president who cares about america's position in the world about how we can protect our country and allies and make sure our enemies know we are. we will take a little breakick here, but will be talking about health care, immigration tax reform. quite a list when he takes office. looking for balance in your digestive system? try align probiotic. for a non-stop, sweet treat goodness, hold on to your tiara kind of day. get 24/7 digestive support, with align. the #1 doctor recommended probiotic brand. now in kids chewables. g new cars. you're smart. you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar. >> congress convening of a republican majority in both chambers. gop lawmakers moving quickly to repea

part of it was the russian propaganda at that time. there have been problems of identity information in ukraine, and i felt especially critical of the media narratives that reduced it to ukrainian versus russian because you know they have been extraordinarily fluid way of using language and to say one person is ukrainian and one is an ethnic russian i think the narratives like that serve to sort of increased vision while not being an accurate sense of reality and so there were a lot of problems that were not fully citizens and a lot of them had e to do with the promotion of the certain versions of history and ukrainian nationalist interpretations that rejected the experience and identification with russian culture or language. >> host: the war has all sorts of impacts. this conflict that happened in ukraine, what did you observe, what kind of effect did it have on the society and identity information into some of your friends and colleagues. how were they changed by what happened? >> guest: in some ways it is troubling that it's spoken

are alleged to have done and what the russians did do. it is my hope we can agree on the broad outline of the investigative plan. any other comments or questions? to ano, with respect independent commission, that is another way to go at this. we have every member of the democratic house caucus, they have signed on to support that. we believe that is necessary, the public findings are very clear, the russian government hacked the u.s. election, it was ordered by vladimir putin, there was a preferred candidate in donald trump and most chillingly, they intend to do it again. we think the best way in addition to congressional investigations, every member of the democratic caucus believes the best way forward is to have an independent, bipartisan appointed committee that can votessify this and the themselves fully to understanding what's and for all who is responsible, how we work so vulnerable, and make recommendations because we have elections ahead and our allies have elections ahead. we believe although the democrats were the victims this

russian history is full of stories of betrayal. there is a famous one about the schoolboy who informed on his own father to stalin's police. some are calling yulia stepanova a modern—day example, for selling out her fellow athletes and her country. reactions have been a mix of anger, disbelief and denial. the stepanovs said the doping programme was approved at the very top. this is backed up by lab tests, forensic reports, and interviews with other insiders. despite denials of state involvement, this official laboratory covered up and destroyed hundreds of samples. it lost its accreditation, and has been out of action for more than a year. this moscow lawyer represents several athletes accused of doping. his clients dismiss the evidence, and call yulia stepanova a cheating hypocrite. she's not a hero, because there's nothing brave in it. the main motive for her, as for any other athlete who is involved in doping, is a financial motive. but a journalist who has been investigating doping for decades, and exposed the cyclist lance a

a letter of october 7 traced those attacks to russian entities, russian companies. i'm curious about what the full report will show. it is my hope that this congress is willing to stand in a bipartisan way for the integrity of the american electoral process and was show the same backbone to get all the facts on the table as the congress did in 1974. and there was a powerful phrase in that report that i just want to read. the commission concluded, most important failure was one of imagination. we do not believe leaders understood the gravity of the threat." and that is something i think we will all have to grapple with. did we have sufficient warning signs? i think we did, and having had sufficient warning signs, why did we not take it more seriously? that question is every bit as important as a question of what a foreign government adversary did and how we can stop it from happening. three quick points. one, is the report that will be issued next week not solely confined to issues of hacking, but also into the dimension of this dissemination of fake news, will that

,e have a russian u.s. nato russian council. bill perry started it. good idea, but both in response to georgia, which was a serious problem and in response to ukraine, nato and russia took the position that we won't communicate. why do you have it if you are not going to communicate in a crisis? while we are trying now to figure out, or least we should be trying to figure out where to draw redlines in the cyber. everyday we have headlines on the cyber comic using russians of interfering with u.s. elections, etc.. it's apparent that other powers in the world have not developed understandings and redlines in the cyber area. we've got to do that. we've got to talk to do that. i think it would be the supreme irony if while we have not developed redlines in the cyber with which can interact warning systems and so forth, while we are not developing redlines in the cyber area, we seem to be forgetting the redlines we've already learned in the nuclear area. how down is that? it doesn't make sense and is not in the interest of our security or u.s. are russian

but what's really important now is to go after the russians. to do a really nonpartisan investigation, not to relitigate the past election, but to make sure that we punish and deter this kind of interference, and that we harden our defense against it. and that requires a commission or a select committee. >> to be fair, senator blumenthal, that gets to an issue of whether and how much russia influenced the election. it's a very explosive charge. is it appropriate for a member of congress to say in such definitive terms he does not believe that president-elect is going to take an oath here in seven days is a legitimate commander in chief? >> certainly no one is more respected by me, anyway, than john lewis, and i'm going to be attending the inaugural. i'm going to be differing with president-elect trump, soon to be president. it is certainly legitimate for any member of congress to express an opinion in the way that he has about the legitimacy of the incoming president. but my view is that i will be moving on to work with president-elect trump wh

i think the russians participated in helping this man get elected. i do not see this president-elect as a legitimate president. it is one thing for people who didn't vote for donald trump, people who see themselves as political opponents of donald trump, it's one thing for folks to come out from that perspective and say they don't like that he was elected, they don't like the way he campaigned, that i don't like his plans for his administration but congressman john lewis of georgia is doing something different than that, right? he's not saying, you know, not my president i didn't vote for you. he's questioning the legitimacy of donald trump's election based on the conclusions of the intelligence community that russia intervened to help trump win. this is not, again, john lewis saying he disagrees with trump as a politician, he's saying trump wasn't legitimately elected to the presidency and he shouldn't be treated like he was. that's an intense thing to say. that's on the nose. that's calling the question ofly the russian attack on the election has b

/russian relationship. the future meeting between trump and vladimir putin and also we are just learning that the future attendance by the united states at a conference sponsored by russia about syria, something that russia had sought to exclude the u.s. from previously. was that appropriate? >> let me ask you this as you look at this and you speak to other government officials. i just wonder about a mixed signal possibly being sent to a foreign government, particularly anned aversarial foreign government. one the outgoing administration posing new sanctions and the other one coming out and wishing them a happy holidays, in effect. talking about further communication. does that risk, you know, threatening this question that there is this rule in effect that there is only one president, one policy at a time? >> jim, that's precisely the issue i tried to raise in my column this morning. we have a piece of legislation that's never been enforced. never been a prosecution. the logan act. and it basically says th

today," the russian tv outlet so there's a whole history. again, i think it is important to say that this is part of a big foreign policy issue, which is, what is the future of the russia/u.s. relationship. that's not a conspiracy question. that's a question about what's the right foreign policy. trump wants to improve that relationship. flynn strongly agrees they make arguments for why that's so. the obama administration has disagreed, as i think have general mattis and other members of the trump administration about how to do that, so i think the policy issue here is really an important one, quite apart from all the other questions. >> and let me just point out why people are more than reading tea leaves here. flynn rp was part of the conspiracy described by the intelligence community to spread false information and disinformation as part of coordinated with the hacking scandal in terms of trying to interfere with the election. so rt is a player here. it's government-owned. >> it is. >> and it's propaganda and actively involved in trying t

russian hacking. i just want to say this, whenever you hear lindsey grahai and mccain start beating the war drums, it's time to turn your tv down, and to see clapper as the star witness for a russian hacking hearing is ridiculous. we all know in the public that he lied under oath. he perjured himself. why hasn't he been called on the carpet for that? i mean it really is kind of ridiculous that he is the star witness. >> host: jim ,-comma what you have to say about that. >> guest: that's a good question. one thing to bear in mind, the russian hacking in the dnc, they were already in the state department. they've even gotten into theet white house networks. the idea that the information was less secure probably isn't true. we underestimated the russians and didn't take enough actions against them. think of it as his farewell performance. the guys spent a lot of time on the job. he needs a reward. one reason he is still there,ona you're right, everyone had those same questions, but it's hard to find anyb