madison listens to jefferson, he follows jefferson he is swayed ,by jefferson. and jefferson manages, i think, apparently to convince him, this is what i saw in europe. this is where hamilton is taking us. there's great danger. and madison tends to follow jefferson more than hamilton. when hamilton learned that madison had deserted him, hamilton's remark was interesting. he says, madison is not a very worldly person. and you could take that to mean he's not a very sophisticated person and he's being manipulated by jefferson. and there may have been some truth to that. [applause] >> please join us in a for a cool drink and a book signing outside. thank you very much for coming. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> on history bookshelf, here from the countries best-known american history writers of the past decade every saturday at 4:00 p.m. eastern. and you can watch any of our programs at any time when yo

jefferson did. in 1796, to take a bit of the dryness often no, you think jefferson would learn his lesson by this point. he wrote some political asset to philip. he described the situation around him. in the final days of the washington administration. america had just ratified the jay treaty which repudiated a revolutionary war in france. all around there were signs of increasing monarchism in jefferson's eyes. jefferson wrote to philip, it would give you a fever if you could see men who once were samson's in the field and solomons in the council, but who have now had their head shorn by the harlot england. if you know your bible stories, you know that jefferson was not saying nice things. who was the sampson in the field and the solomon in the council of jefferson must have been referring to? who else could it be other than president washington himself. this is a juicy letter. philip received it in italy and agreed it was a juicy letter. he translated from english and had it published. it was pick

jefferson has an answer. lincoln saw it and that is why jefferson will always live in our memory because of the notion of equality, that is where the founders are important to us -- why the founders are important to us. they are the source of our sense of being american. there is no ethnicity in americanism. we don't know what it is. the whole world is here and why are they all-american, because they believe in these things and if they don't believe in them, they are not americans. us asecome part of lincoln said, to the point where blood -- andd and flesh in flash of the founders, themselves. [applause] >> in february, we have run journal coming in, in march and lynne cheney in april, please come back and join us and also please join me in thanking professor gordon would -- gordon >> you are watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend on c-span3. to join the conversation like us on facebook. c-span3's american history tv, an interview with dorothy height, who served as president of the national

she comes in with charges against jefferson. jefferson doesn't know what to say. he comes back and tries to apologize and they exchange a few letters, but abigail's f furrious and writes him off. in 1812 rush works on both of them and manages brilliantly to have them have each quoted and that's enough says jefferson. >> it brings them back together. >> yeah. adams makes the first effort. he says i'm sending you some artisan products of boston to you and jefferson being so little minded he writes a long letter on manufacturing in virginia when what adams sent him was two volumes of his son's lectures that had just been published. then jefferson gets the gift and then he writes an apologetic letter. the correspondence goes on and they both appreciate it. they are aware they're writing for posteriority, jefferson in particular. up to 1819 they avoid any talk of slavery. jefferson makes a reference to it and adams pounces so jefferson pulls back and says no more. it's one of those subjects that they differ on and adams realizes he can't push it because that will destr

i have to jefferson credit. jefferson and his lieutenants. they were masterful in terms of spending the historical record. they're spinning process to this to -- percent -- persists this day are very myths resilient. another myth is hamilton was only concerned with the well-being of the rich and the wellborn and bankers in particular. it was true that hamilton was not a friend of breast of the of precipitated or a democracy. he wanted as many elements of stability and purpose as he could possibly infuse into the system. he did propose a president elected for life and a senate elected for life but i believe hamilton himself even made this case, what he was trying to do with the constitutional convention was pulled his fellow delegates as far in the direction of permanence and stability as he could. he staked out what seemed a more extreme position and made the nationalist positions seem more palatable and acceptable. others charged that he faced in his -- other charges he faced in his lifetime was that he was a monarchist and others that pushe

i have to give jefferson credit. i mean, jefferson and his lieutenant. they were masterful in terms of spinning the historical record. their spinning persists to this day, i think you're sort of picking that up from me, and these miths are proving very resilient. another myth, of course, is that hamilton was only concerned or solely concerned with the well-being of the rich and the well-born and banks or bankers in particular. now, it is true that hamilton was not a friend of or supporter of participatory democracy. he believed in and wanted a government that consisted of as many elements, as he put of, of stability and permanence as he could possibly infuse into the system. so, yes, did he propose a president elected for life and a senate elected for life. but i believe, along with some others, that i believe hamilton himself even made this case, what he was trying to do at the constitutional convention was pull his fellow delegates as far in the direction of permanence and stability as he could, so he stakes out what was arguably a somewhat extreme pos

i have to give jefferson credit. jefferson and his lieutenants. they were masterful in terms of spinning the historical record. persists to this day. you are probably picking that up from me. these myths are proving very resilient. another myth is hamilton was only concerned with the well-being of the rich and the or bankersnd banks in particular. it was true that hamilton was not a friend of, or a supporter of precip atari -- participatory democracy. he wanted as many elements of stability and purpose as he -- and permanence as he could possibly infuse into the system. he did propose a president elected for life and a senate life, but i believe, among others, and i believe harrelson -- hamilton himself even made this case, what he was trying to do with the constitutional convention was pull his fellow delegates as far in the direction of permanence and stability as he could. so he staked out what seemed a more extreme position and made the more moderate, nationalist position seem far more palatable and acceptable. the other charge that he faced i

jefferson is sounding remarkably enlightened. once said the masses are changing and seldom judge right and it's for that reason we need to keep all of out of what would clearly be the best interest of people.ican me, it was clear this was not the best constitution that could have been written. we as simply the best that ould be able to enact given opportunity and as much your idea of meeting every -- we were actually able to ratify he constitution to use the power that had been given to the and the best ment way for us to become a single people. my time taxing was not taxing individual citizens. it was taxing imported goods and taxing luxury goods, not necessities. few things we agree on. >> well, since we have that, i to end on a note of hope i think for how we go. we have about ten minutes left and answer. we have a wonderful audience newseum and at the we have students online. so i'm going to open it up to questions.e to ask i'll repeat those questions so online can hear and mr. jefferson and mr. hamilton help us work through

more for jefferson of course. there needs to be a memorial to adams on the mall or maybe the title basin near the jefferson memorial and positioned in such a way that it casts shadows across the jefferson memorial. >> that they are both look at one another, keeping an eye. >> that would be great. >> they are both coming to grips with their mortality but shaping their legacy to the end. there is, i sense, the profound respect and admiration among the two that they were able to repair this vitally important relationship. maybe the most enigmatic of all the founders, one that i still think is far more monument than man and more myth than flesh and blood is george washington. washington did a marvelous job of taking that veil off of him. you talk a little bit about washington's letters and about him almost crafting or creating this persona -- almost acting the role. he is the least noble of all the founders. >> he's difficult. and i spent six years reading and writing about him. i wrote a book called "his excellency p

jefferson believes that. and adams believes it is not going to work in most other place, and adams believes that the term american exceptionalism is not the term now, and it is a 20th century term, but, yes, we are exceptional, and unique, and that is the reason that it is not going to be working anywhere else. their definition, and adams' definition of american exceptionalism is the exact opposite of the modern use of the term. don't expect the middle east to work as a democracy, but a it is not going to happen. he says that talking about latin america, it will not work, because they are all cath are licks down there. and so that we can see in that dialogue a lot of the issues that continue to affect us in a language that is going to challenge our categories, and challenge the way that we think about them in a fashion that is truly healthy. i probably had some truly eloquent conclusion, and it is all written out, but as the psychiatrist that i am told say "our time is up", thank you very much. [ applause ] >

jefferson most especially. it turns out the window wasn't opening, slavery wasn't dying, it was growing. here it is. they couldn't foresee the cotton gin. they couldn't foresee the steam engine. watt's steam engine is first -- what's the word? patented in 1776. but it becomes effective as a mode of producing a new kind of manufacturing in england by about 1820. so the cotton kingdom comes into existence, and once that happens the economics of it make it almost impossible to imagine end i ing. i wanted to talk to you, and i will do so in the q&a about what location in the past, in the 18th century i recommend. they've us as i'm a -- what? i'm a tour guide. the destination i recommend you look at most closely is the adams-jefferson correspondence. it's a correspondence between 1812 and 1826. adams said you and i ought not to die until we have explained ourselves to each other. they don't agree. we can see the disagreements and the dialogue between the two sides in the american revolution. they're called the north

but jefferson is also complicated. he can be manipulative, he can be devious -- often unconsciously devious. he can also lose heart as he ages. his enemy, alexander hamilton, says he knew no man more likely to temporize. certainly, jefferson backs off on his youthful anti-slavery barter. the jefferson that was important to lincoln was the young jefferson, the 33-year-old man when the continental congress has given the assignment of writing the public statement of why they are declaring independence. in this document, the first of the self evident truths, he says that all men are created equal. lincoln would turn to this again and again from the 1850's and 60's. in 1859 he is invited by a group of republicans in boston to come there to address the celebration of jefferson's birthday. he cannot come because of his legal practice, but he sends a statement. he clearly labors over this because he knows it will be published that he wanted to be just right he says of jefferson that he expressed the axioms and definitions of a

jefferson -- thomas jefferson was a very complex man. brilliant. a great writer. no other founder wrote better. paine and benjamin franklin write as well but they write very differently. jefferson can do the million dollar sentence. he can do it in a public document. he can drop it into a letter. you have a feeling you could wake him up in the middle of the night and he might utter such a thing. but jefferson is also complicated. he can be manipulative. he can be devious. often unconsciously devious. he can also lose heart as he ages. his enemy alexander hamilton said he knew no man more likely to temperize and certainly jefferson backs off on his youthful antislaveryardor. but the jefferson who was important to lincoln was the young jefferson, the 33-year-old man who in the continental congress is given the assignment of writing the public statement of why the united states is declaring its independence. in this document, the first of his self-evident truths, he says that all men are created equal. lincoln would turn to this again and again in the 1850's and 1860

the declaration of independence comes out of hiding april 13, 1943 by jefferson's bird when the jefferson memorial. fdr thinks at this point and 43 it's been a real slog of the water for 15 to end that to boost the morale of the american people having the original copy of the declaration on display under 24 hour marine died with the scent and helpful to the people. fort knox for a week and thousands of americans visit this mini shrine, you know, at the jefferson memorial to come in the period part of it might've been the warriors says he's the cutest that patriotic feeling or fervor for connection to the documents. but also, when you see these documents retouch other documents that you were god, that there is a feeling, this venerating feeling. the example i used is when you go to the shrine, a million people go through that shine to see documents. and about that. pretty amazing. when you go there, even my kids. my wife is a principal of the k-8 on the boston area. he chaperoned lots of things and you're involved. we've done it for five years now. even when you have 100 kids did not shrin

jefferson wants people to come to this capitol building. he himself said wherever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. this chamber began functioning for the senate in 1906 and continues functioning today. there is an original 1906 wooden centerstage. that is for the clerking staff in the lieutenant governor. the members of the senate have a four-year term. they are eligible for reelection. of each represent upwards 200,000 constituents her senator. one of the interesting features of our general assembly, which 1916, is it has always been, by conscious design, a part-time legislature . this chamber, in terms of its visual presentation takes you , back 100 years to the beginning of the 20th century. but in terms of its ongoing function, it is a valid place every single year when the lawmakers come to do the public business. and i am remembering that we had in this chamber a lieutenant governor by the name of lawrence douglas wilder who, as lieutenant governor presided , over the senate and ran successf

jefferson, who introduced the bill to relocate to jefferson, of the time we made the move he was serving as governor and i to oversee the process. if you think of the capitol as an essay in architecture, the primary author was thomas jefferson. at the time we were getting ready to break ground for a new public building in richmond in 1785, jefferson had left state service and was the american ambassador to france. he was living in paris. nonetheless, richmond reached out to jefferson, asking for his help as an absentee advocate for the capitol building. he turned to the architecture of antiquity. he was fascinated by the temples of greece and rome. in paris he was able to meet and collaborate with a french architect who was a published authority on roman antiquities and those two men got together. i like to think of jefferson as the author of our original capitol building. they looked -- it is known by the french as la maison today. jefferson planned for the richmond state capitol to look like a classical roman temple. he followed the advice of people is studied antiquity and he put the

jefferson's father, peter jefferson, was a wealthy virginia planter and a surveyor who married successfully into the prestigious randolph family, but he was not a refined and liberally educated gentleman. he did not read latin. he did not know french. he did not play the violin. and as far as we know, he never once questioned the idea of religious establishment or the owning of slaves. his son, thomas jefferson, was very different. indeed, all the revolutionaries knew things their fathers did not know, and they were eager to prove themselves in what they believed and valued by their disinterestedness, by their virtue, but there was one prominent revolutionary leader who did not seek to play this role that the others did. now on the face of it aaron burr had all the credentials for being a great founder. he was a revolutionary war veteran, a princeton graduate, and a charming and wealthy aristocrat. he eventually became a senator from new york and vice president of the united states, the third and his predecessors were john adams and thomas jefferson. he was well on his way to a great career

lee, thomas stonewall jackson, and jefferson davis. in 1996, african-american star -- tennis star in virginia and natives arthur ash was added to the collection. of next, our visit to richmond continues as we travel to the virginia historical society to learn about the state's history. welcome to the virginia historical society. we are standing at the entrance to the story of virginia, which is our long-term exhibition that covers all of virginia history from prehistory to the present day. this is an exhibit meant to show visitors how virginia plays into the broader narrative of american history and international history as well. we're going to begin by looking at a can knew that is roughly 300 years old. this is a symbol of the collision of the two cultures that make up

>> washington: thank you, secretary jefferson! >> alexander hamilton: ♪ thomas, that was a real nice declaration welcome to the present ♪ we're running a real nation would you like to join us ♪ or stay mellow doing whatever the hell it is ♪ you do in monticello a civics lesson from a slaver, ♪ hey, neighbor your debts are paid because ♪ you don't pay for labor "we plant seeds in the south, ♪ we create!" keep ranting ♪ we know who's really doing the planting! >> rose: hamilton's combative nature made him monumental enemies, including presidents adams, jefferson, madison and monroe. all downplayed hamilton's achievements and diminished his legacy. the only one to fare worse in the eyes of history was hamilton's killer, vice president aaron burr. miranda gives him a starring role. burr becomes your narrator? >> lin-manuel miranda: yes. >> rose: because you need, what? >> lin-manuel miranda: well, one, i need balance. hamilton would be happy to narrate his own story. >> rose: in paragraphs and paragraphs. >> lin-manuel

and acted by the state general assembly on january 16, 1786 and then my thomas jefferson. it addresses the principle of separation of church andstate . the three paragraph statute, the basis for our first amendment protections for religious freedom. next we learn about another founding father in the financial scandal that landed him in prison. >> robert morris was an important american founder but it's true that not very many people knew about him. he was the financier of the american revolution, so call because he served toward the end of the american revolution. he helped put that early government on a sound financial footing.everybody was in big trouble at the end of the war so he was a moneyman. he's also not well-known because of what happened to him at the end of the flood. he messed up pretty bad. he was one of the richest guys in the country. after the american revolution, he was an important senator from pennsylvania but at the end of his life, he ended up losing basically all of his fortune and went into debtors prison and we he came out of debtors prison and the

jefferson and madison know it is wrong so that needs to be said as well. the bill of rights begins the project but it doesn't end it on this view. it's involved in the second founding project which is a huge project. the most important thing you need to understand, it is a ironic and fulfills maximum vision. no state shall. it's going to be an amendment that is proposed by the anti-jefferson party. no state shall violate fundamental rights by conscience and fought and expression and jury trial and the right to counsel and the rest. all are free because it's the amendment putting an end to slavery. so, now madison station is ironic and asked at the same time because at his best he understood these things at its worst he betrayed these things. now the amendment codifying in a way that benefits not merely his nieces and nephews but also the nieces and nephews and grandchildren of his slaves and we are not done because we learn about women and about the poll taxes and franchises and even today it is a project of making amends for their lapses because as great

that doesn't appear in the farewell address, it appears in jefferson's inaugural. jefferson after fighting tooth and nail with washington over politics and policy over a decade. when he takes the oath of office after debating john adams, he becomes a born-again washingtonian. he encapsulates and rearticulates all the phrases washington tried to lay out, those principles, and it's a reminder that very often where you sit is a matter of where you stand. the office has historically changed the man more than the man changed the office. it's a fascinating arc. >> rose: this is a book about speeches. what's fascinating to me is john kennedy talked about winston churchill mobilizing the english language. >> and sending it to battle. >> rose: what's interesting is how single speeches can make such a difference in your political rise. in britain, david cameron made one great speech and got elected prime minister. barack obama had won his position in chicago as a state legislator on the iraqi war but had one great speech that cat pulled him. bill clinton didn't have that hap

as i've always said, would i share any tears if jefferson davis statue was torn down? i wouldn't but i think the history of the past of richmond, that being terrible or not, shouldn't be a -- our anchor. site should be a foundation to build from. >> it's about an opportunity for history. right now -- statues honoring or memorializing the figures and i think the key is to tell the whole story. i think richmond can be the center of reconciliation, we do have a terrible past but it's time to start writing that chapter to begin with the conversation about reconciliation. >> and what is the narrative that you would like to achieve you dream goal for your time as mayor for your time as a resident in city of richmond? >> i think my time as mayor and my time of residency, the goal i would like to achieve would be to -- when people think about the city of richmond, the next sentence is city of rhythm, the capitol of virginia and in the forker capitol of confederacy itch want to change that to -- i want to change that. the culture and history, not just being known as the capital

. >> you can see jeffersons works. still around us. how does the city and state government in iraq and if at all? >> state government as a part of. i'm lucky i think about state government based in our city. but also it presents challenges at times as well. when you hold a state government, they are tax exempt. you want to make an economic impact but they don't pay taxes on his beautiful buildings as well. i would rather have them do not happen, i'll say that. >> we are at the state capital. the state capital doesn't look like a lot of other capital buildings that i've seen. >> this is the original. this is one of the oldest operating capitals we have. >> who designed this, thomas jefferson? >> the third president of the united states of america. >> the capital that is still in use today. tell me about what we are saying. >> abraham lincoln came here during, came here right at the end of the civil war when richmond fell, and basically he freed some slave right over here. we have a number of statues on the capital square grounds as well

old sow jeffersons that we now have an aristocracy of talent and virtue. adams agreed with that of three-point dot one of the themes of his later writing is this idea that actually qualities like wealth and beauty was given to us by fortune are much more powerful than qualities like talent and virtue which are given by emirate and in that sense, is a critical view of the power of wealth and the power of family. this wasn't quite held by the contemporary view even those like jefferson who in other ways were very worried about the financial elite and things like this. >> we have this account that is sort of in inevitable few and as a matter of constitutional design how did he think we might control and harness the few for good purposes? >> i would have to say in terms of structural solutions to the problem, this may be the weakest part of his whole argument and anyone that reads my book would see i am very deeply in love with john adams. when he came to think about how he would control the air of stalkers become as he had one solution that made sense but was

thomas jefferson is concerned. where is jefferson when the constitution is being written? he is in france, good, you got that right. so many people are like, it was jefferson and adams -- no. find the founding fathers is one of my favorite games. jefferson is in france. here's what he yes to say to -- what he has to say to james madison. remember, they are close friends, they are neighbors. madison -- jefferson is trying to convince madison, he says a bill of rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on earth, and what no just government should refuse or rest on inference. the federalists say you don't need a bill of rights and jefferson is saying you have to have a bill of rights. madison is always practical. he will eventually dropped the bill of rights. -0- draft the bill of rights. he says repeated violations of these parchment barriers have been committed by overbearing majorities in every state. he has a ring seat to the tyranny against the baptists who are persecuting minorities in -- who are persecuted minority in virginia, and they promine

jefferson but the success of an army of 1775. how better they not been successful in 1775, not only with the gathering of those 55 men been publicly delayed, but such a proposition would never have been written by mr. jefferson. >> please do read the book you're guilty in the i laid out very carefully. independents only happened after thomas paine's common sense was published in january 1776. every discussion before that that was done in public referred to an accommodation with the cane. yes, i'm sure independents had been privately, but the majority of the publications, including jefferson, the declaration for the reasons and causes were all directed to somehow come to an accommodation with written. thomas paine drew the line who said it is that ship has left the station. the train has sailed. it is time to call for independence. once that call for independence by thomas paine was made, other legislative bodies around the state started suggesting sending their people to philadelphia to call for independence. thomas paine says qu

liberty, thomas jefferson and the power of knowle

jefferson wants people to come to this capital building. whereverf said that the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. the chamber began functioning for the senate in 1906 and continues functioning today. original wooden dais, center stage, with an elevated platform for the clerking staff and for the lieutenant governor who presides over our senate. our members of the senate have a four-year term and are eligible for reelection. they each represent upwards of 200,000 constituents or senator. featurese interesting of the general assembly, which dates back to 1619, is that it has always been, by conscious design, a part-time legislature. the chamber, in terms of its visual representation, takes you back about 100 years to the beginning of the 20th century. in terms of its ongoing function , it is a valid place every single year when the lawmakers come to do the public business. i am remembering that we had in this chamber a lieutenant governor by the name of lawrence douglas wilder who as lieutenant governor

jefferson. >> so please read the book. i laid out in the introduction very carefully the cry for independence only happened after thomas paine's common sense is published in january of 1776. every discussion before that, that was done in public refer to trying to find a way to an accommodation. yes, i'm sure independence had been routed privately but the majority of the publications including jefferson's declaration on the causes of taking up arms were all directed to come to an accommodation with britain. it was thomas paine who drew the line that said, that ship has left the station. the train has sailed. it is time to call for independence. once that call for independence by independent by thomas paine was made all of the legislative bodies around the state started to discuss sending their people to philadelphia to call for independence. thomas paine says clearly in common sense, the only thing that is going to achieve and independence is to write a declaration that would be received by the kings and courts of europe an

said, what i want to jefferson step -- davis statue torn down westmark know i wouldn't. whether how terrible it is a not, it should not be our anchor. michael's about not repeating the history. right now the statues have no , such as these figures and i think the key is to help the whole -- tell the whole story. richmond could be the center of all things reconciliation. yes with a terrible past, but it's time to start writing a new chapter in that first begins with the conversation about reconciliation. goals for your dream not just a time is mary -- mayor, but also as a resident question mark >> -- question mark --? >> the goal of want to achieve is for people to think about richmond. i want to change what people think after they say the capital virginia. also a center for arts and culture, not necessarily just being known as the capital of the confederacy. we've whole lot more going on for us. we are more open-minded and more inclusive than our history. >> next on c-span3's american history tv, an interview with , whoalist gwen eiffel worked for the new york times, was

we are at the grave of jefferson davis and his family. he was a graduate of west point, a mississippi cotton planter, a member of the house of representatives, u.s. senator, and the only president of the confederacy. howas married to the arena howl.ena difficultyhad supporting the family. when she was 18, she was engaged to jefferson davis. he was 18 years her senior. they had six children. four sons and two daughters. the two daughters are winnie, the youngest, the first daughter of the confederacy, and margaret, whose monument is the angel with the open face of the bible. died in newvis buried there.s he was reburied at hollywood. of junichiaturday or, the sons of the veterans celebrate the life of jefferson we are finishing the tort at the president circle. the center of the circle is james monroe. james monroe is born in virginia, had a home near charlottesville, and was a veteran of the american revolution. we are at a very exciting time because the two of james monroe has been out for a year and haa half being restored. over the yea

thomas jefferson and adams were very clear about this. that the declaration of independence although, it was written by jefferson, as a document for the ages, and i make that very clear, was specifically addressed to the courts of france and spain. you don't write a declaration just for the record. they never did that the declaration that jefferson wrote as i mentioned for taking up arms was specifically addressed to king king george iii even ife was not in the byline. i say that because the first considered action by the congress after its signature on july 4, after eights acceptance, not signed until august but accepting and printing july 4, 1776, the first action congress took was to put it on a ship bound for france so that the kings of france and spain could see it. and they were very clear about that. so, again, the writing, the evidence is all quite clear. yes, it certainly helped to rally the troops but the intent was always to bring france and spain in on the side of the americans. >> that france and spain both had impetus to jum

mayor stoney: jefferson's work still around. how does the city and state government interact, if at all? how does the city and state government interact, if at all? mayor stoney: the state government is our partner. when you're the home of state government, you do not necessarily get -- they are tax exempt. economicr about the impact, but they do not pay taxes on these buildings as well. i would rather have them do not have them. let's they bat. ashley: -- let's say that. ashley: the capitol does not look like a lot of other capitol buildings. mayor stoney: this is the original, right? this is one of the oldest operating capitals we have. ashley: who designed this? mayor stoney: thomas jefferson. the third president of the united states of america. the capital.ned what are we seeing? mayor stoney: abram lincoln came here right at the end of the civil war when richmond fell and some slavesey freed right over here. harry byrd over here. a milestone in civil rights. ashley: we're talking about the statues and monuments. there's a l

jefferson as a plea for the powers to join the revolution. it was only at the end of the declaration including the passage that they might have taken particular notice of. the action describes what they would take notice of and not with the intent was. >> in the anticipation, the support is and what motivated it the success had the army not been successful not only would the gathering has been probably delayed but never been written by mr. jefferson. >> please read the book and you will see i lay out very carefully the crowning for independence only happens after the common sense was published in january of 1776. every discussion that was done before that referred to trying to find a way to come to an accommodation. i'm sure it had been mooted privately but the publications including the declarations for taking up arms were directed to come to an accommodation with prison. thomas paine drew the line that said that ship has left the station, the train disabled. [laughter] it's time to call for independence. once the call was made, the legislat

. >> bill: you know there is a lot of thomas jefferson, george washington, they were slaveholders. a lot of things named after the them. what is the difference? >> he is not just a slaveholder. not just someone who was a racist. he really built his legacy around and equality. he is really an individual whose lifelong work was around any quality. he wasn't even really for the parts that say that all men are created equal. when you think about residential colleges, this is where the students are formed, a place of community. when you think about those names that we want on those institutions with those colleges within our institutions, it is important to think about that. >> bill: you are distinguishing between the legacy of calhoun and jefferson at washington. why do you think yale even name to the college after calhoun? surely, they knew, because he was not a quiet guy, it was all pretty much up front with him. surely, they knew who he was, why did they name it? >> i'm sure they didn't know. it is 2017. i know the conversation that we are and now, watches, we can look at our legacy

even jefferson said that. not so common in new england, it was somewhat less common to say this problem is naturally going to resolve itself. >> host: let's end by bringing adams to the present day. what advice do you think that adams would give the current administration how to drain the swamp in washington, if at all? each of you give thoughts on that. >> well, it was advice for the current president? >> or administration or washington, you know. >> i think what i would -- i think i would be better put, to give advice to the voters. [laughter] >> though one thing that i recently discovered is that the -- in spite of the aspiration to drain the swamp, the new cabinet has a combined wealth that's greater than the combined gdp of the poorest 39 countries in the world. and one of the themes of adams' writings when you look back at the history of republicans was the vulnerability of chief executives in relation to the oligarchs and this long history of the ways as richard described earlier, the ways that the aris