the russians are liars. i am very confident about what they were asking for. i am not so confident about what was being offered. something was being offered, but i would not believe the russians they mighticements have put in front of them to get the meeting. because anything could've been offered, in reality. sen. blumenthal: is there any doubt in your mind, knowing as well as any american, how vladimir putin operates, that there, veselnitskaya was acting on behalf of vladimir putin in the russian government? mr. browder: there is no doubt. sen. blumenthal: is there any doubt in your mind that rinat her,tshin was aiding acting on behalf of vladimir putin in the russian government? mr. browder: there is no doubt. sen. blumenthal: when my senator lindsey graham asked you about reporting back to intelligence agencies, these two individuals, natalia and akhmetshin, where acting on behalf of vladimir putin in initiating a potential agreement, legally probably a conspiracy, involving the russian government and do

by russian officials. american businessman bill browder was veselnitskaya's boss. >> she's been trying to repeal sanctions legislation which putin finds probably the most personally offensive of anything that's come out of the west in the last ten years. >> reporter: the kremlin was so outraged it banned adoptions of russian children by americans. it has denied any association with veselnitskaya saying we don't know who that is and we can't monitor all meetings russian lawyers have both in russia and abroad. veselnitskaya got the meeting through rob goldstone, a music agent, who has been involved with trump's pageant in moscow in 2015. it was one of goldstone's clients, russian pop star emin agalarov who requested the meeting with veselnitskaya. he once wished him a happy birthday and even appeared in one of his music videos. >> i'm really tired of you. you're fired! >> reporter: and a lawyer of veselnitskaya has responded since the news of this meeting broke. she said nothing at all about the presidential

by russian officials. he worked for american finance sheer, who was the driving force behind the law and who filed the complaint with the justice department accusing him on working on behalf of the russian government. >> all of his actions to date show that he's absolutely clearly working in the interests of the putin regime and the fsb in order to repeal the magnitski act and create a situation where russian murders can travel again. >> the lawyer initially introduced to donald junior has having incriminating information on hillary clinton from a russian prosecutor, she was also named in the complaint. the day of the meeting, she asked him to attend. >> they were working together in new york. they were working together in brussels. they had this big project together. it would have been odd if he hadn't been at the donald trump jr. meeting since this is a project that they had been sort of walking lock-step. and from what i can tell, he is the u.s. operator. he's the guide in the corridors of power. and so

russian children. obviously i'm the first person on the campaign to ever take a meeting to hear info about an opponent. went nowhere but had to listen. white house like wise insisted nothing inappropriate took place. >> i've been on several campaigns and people call offering information. as i know many of you receive similar calls of people offering information. don jr took a very short meeting from which there was absolutely no follow-up. the only thing i see inappropriate about the meeting is the people that leaked the information on the meeting after it was voluntarily disclosed. >> senate intelligence committee is already interested in speaking with donald trump jr about the meeting. he hired a new lawyer who is formally represented the mafia. i asked john podesta for his reaction. >> it is drip, drip, drip. we keep learning more information. the story keeps changing. now it is clear that they had a specific meeting to gather dirt on hillary with a russian lawyer, with close ties to the kremlin. an

she had no links whatsoever to the russian government, that she just happened to be a russian person, those denials i should mention coming from not just her but coming from the white house up to and including the president himself giving that denial. can we play that clip for a second? >> as far as my son is concerned, my son is a wonderful young man. he took a meeting with a russian lawyer, not a government lawyer but a russian lawyer. >> tonight "the wall street journal" reports that despite those denials coming from everybody up to and including the president himself, this lawyer who went to trump tower and met with trump's son and trump's son-in-law and trump's campaign chair last summer along with all those other russians that she brought with her, despite all of these denials including from the president that she had anything to do with the russian government, the lawyer herself, natalia veselnitskaya, has now conceded to the "wall street journal" that, in fact, she was working with russian prosecutor general you're yi chaca on this. according to "the wall street journal," vese

adoptions of russian children. but yesterday, faced with "new york times" reporting on the purpose of the meeting, he acknowledged he was told the lawyer "might have information helpful to the campaign." he said: "the woman stated that she had information that individuals connected to russia were funding the democratic national committee and supporting ms. clinton. her statements were vague, ambiguous and made no sense. it quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information." in an off-camera white house briefing, principal deputy press secretary sarah huckabee sanders dismissed the controversy. >> don jr. took a very short meeting from which there was absolutely no follow up. don jr. did not collude with anybody to influence the election. >> yang: today, donald trump junior said: "obviously i'm the first person on a campaign to ever take a meeting to hear info about an opponent... went nowhere but had to listen." he also said he'd cooperate with the senate intelligence committee's investigation of russian

and russian leaders in the past. russia is chafing at what they describe as a unilaterally led world with a u.s. superpower. they want the world divided into kind of individual more 19th century approach to the world where russia would get a sphere of influence. we don't know whether or not that fits with president trump's world view which involves america first. >> ivan watson in moscow. thanks. >>> now for perspective, political analyst josh rogan, columnist for the "washington post." good morning, josh, mr. perspective. look, a lot of pressure on these two, a lot on the plate. could be a short meeting. what do you expect out of this thing? >> there's an effort and desire on both sides to have a happy, good meeting. a meeting where they show the world's largest nuclear powers can get along and actually talk about if not solve big issues of international concern. that's what both sides want. that's what we can expect. of course the context is that things are not happy, things are not hunky-dory. the relationship is

he took a meeting with a russian lawyer. not a government lawyer but a russian lawyer. it was a short meeting. it was a meeting that went very, very quickly, very fast. two other people were in the room. they -- i guess one of them left almost immediately and the other one was not really focused on the meeting. i do think this. i think from a practical standpoint most people would have taken that meeting. it's called opposition research or even research into your opponent. >> reporter: well, it's not called opposition research, anderson. manu was just saying the reaction from capitol hill, from the people who run campaigns, this is not standard practice at all. in terms of the president saying he was not a russian government lawyer, in fact, that is exactly what donald trump jr. thought the meeting was. that has been spelled out in the e-mails that he released himself, that there was a meeting with a russian government lawyer. that's why he accepted a meeting. the president also didn't say who these two people were. you may get this sense that there was some mid-level a

-russian ties? i'm jim acosta. you're in "the situation room." >>> with the trump administration rocked by a series of bombshells on russia's election meddling, a top republican describes the white house as paralyzed. various administration figures paint a picture of chaos now reaching the president's inner circle after son donald jr. released e-mail showing he embraced a proposal of russian government help in attacking hillary clinton. the president tweeted today that the white house is functioning perfectly and he's trying to defuse claims that russia acted to help get him elected. an interview with televangelist pat robertson, he said vladimir putin would have preferred hillary clinton in the white house because he's boosting less military and exports. the president hopes to get away from it all as he flies to meet the french president, president macron. and james comchristopher wray t senate today that he would resign if asked to do something illegal and immoral. wray said the president did not ask for a loyalt

the russian government. now, that night candidate trump said this. >> i am going to give a major speech on probably monday of next week, and we're going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the clintons. hillary clinton turned the state department into a private hedge fund. the russians, the saudis, the chinese all gave money to bill and hillary and got favorable treatment in return. >> but candidate trump's major speech detailing allegations of corruption between hillary clinton and the governments of russia, saudi arabia and china, it didn't happen. that major speech never materialized. question: is there any relationship between the information trump jr. thought was coming about clinton from the russians that he now says did not come and this major speech trump said was coming on clinton and the russians, among others, that also did not come? i asked the white house that question. they did not respond. here's another question. in the e-mails before any actual meeting was discussed

jack, here's what we know about this russian lawyer, she is a russian lawyer, represents russians who want to see an end to u.s. sanctions against them. she said she doesn't rep the russian government and the kremlin says they don't know who she said she is. now i realize you may not know her but in general does anything stand out to you? >> well, in general she has done work for smaller ole guards and denial from the kremlin means nothing. let me explain where i'm coming from when i said this could have been something that was engineered. she could have easily been bait. if there was a weak link in the american system, that was the trump group and it's playing out beautifully. if they had tried to plan somebody incompetent, ine fish, impossible to run a tight ship they couldn't have done ber than what we have right now in the white house. >> basically, sounds like what you're saying is they're testing new waters just to see how far they can go. they'll say, okay, we have an end here, they've taken this much of the bait. how far can we go. is that what you're saying? >> create some tr

trump, nor y republican, who told the russians, russian leaders, actually, -- i'll have a lot more flexibility after the election. that can only mean one thing. i'm going to give away a lot more of america's strength, helping you out in russia. as you're trying to get stronger, i'm going to give away a lot more of our strength , maybe our edge over your military, i'm willing to -- i have more ability to give that away after i'm elected to a second term. tell vladimir. it was not a republican, certainly not anyone associated with donald trump, that went to russia with a reset, supposed reset button, couldn't get the translation right, but wanting to reset the relationship. and for those who didn't follow history well back then, the reason there was a strain in the relationship between the united states and russia was because george w. bush as president of the united states stood on principle and when the ountry of russia, under putin, attacked georgia, president bush appropriately was outraged. and he pushed for sanctions to let russia know that the united states does not approve of russia atta

trump jun the russian probe. interviewneeds to trump junior and others who attended the meeting as stated by senator susan collins. bit from marke warner about the current status of this meeting. >> think it is remarkable that iis meeting that this -- think it is remarkable that this meeting had not been reported before hand. i think this is the first time the public has seen evidence of the trump campaign trying to receive information from a foreign nation about trying to interfere with hillary clinton's campaign efforts. this is the underlying premise which has been raised during this whole and purgation -- wholetion -- during this investigation. host: next caller on the line. caller: i want to make a comment about the caller who was ashamed of our country. do not be ashamed of our country. we live in the greatest country in the world. thank you. host: next caller from new jersey. you are next up. caller: good money. this is tyrone. i was calling about the donald trump meetings with russia. i do not know what i

state russian intelligence russian businessman russian citizens this is an absurdity i have no contacts in russia i have not been in touch with anyone in russia in many years this is a canard a false hood a lie and it is outrageous well mr stone a small correction a you have had no contacts with the russians except for our teeth but in a more serious note i wonder if the trumpet ministration is also contributing to that hysteric narrative by responding to it i think it's clear by now that general michael flynn who was allowed to go by the trumpet administration over his illogic contacts with the russian ambassador didn't discuss anything reprehensible during those communications the same goes for attorney general jeff sessions don t. think that trump should be more resolute in standing up for his people. well i think he begin doing that this weekend when he made it clear that he believes and i believe that he was under surveillance by the federal government by the intelligence agencies while he was the republican nominee for president this is a scandal bigger than watergate richard nixo

the russian lawyer at the center of this story spoke to nbc news when she denied working for the russian government. >> have you ever worked for the russian government? to have connection to the russian government? >> no. >> sean: nbc is also quoting the russian lawyer saying "i never had any damaging or sensitive information about hillary clinton. it was never my intention to have that." in a previous statement, donald trump jr. said the same thing. she never produced solid information about hillary clinton. he says that she didn't even really make sense when talking about clinton. it's worth noting that the legal team pointed out they think the whole meeting could have been a set up. it was made to look like potential russian collusion. the team also said that the russian lawyer is connected to fusion gps, the opposition research firm that produced the discredited christopher steele dossier on donald trump. by the way, as "the new york post" has reported, fusion tps has several ties to the democrats, including clinton allies and even planned parenthood. from looking at the facts as we

he took a meeting with a russian lawyer. not a government lawyer but a russian lawyer. most people would have taken that meeting. it's called opposition research. >> you've been through a few campaigns. if you were told a lawyer wanted to share information with you as part of the russian government's effort to help you get elected, how would you respond? >> i would respond in the negative. i think most candidates would. we need to get to the bottom of this but the only way we're going to do it is to talk not just to donald trump junior who has offered to cooperate for which i give him credit but to every one who was at that meeting and who was involved in setting up that meeting. it may be difficult in the case of the russian nationals but we ought to try. we should also ask for all documents not just the e-mails that have been released but all the documents that are related to any context that president trump had with the russian government. >> of the three people from the trump team that will were in th only one, jared kushner is in the white house with security clear

and the russian government. to get him to have such a meeting, she hinted or indicate she had some information on hillary clinton, possibly involving hillary clinton campaign connections to the russians that she wanted to spill. they get in the meeting and she didn't have any information. from what we know. presently it turns out she wanted to talk about this issue of adoption which mr. trump pointed out that neither he nor his father were in any position to do anything about it. they were both still private citizens. the meeting probably went nowhere. the whole thing has the element of a farce. >> bret: when you hear senator warner, and others saying this is part of a pattern where so many in the campaign or the transition forgets that they have met with russians and then re-characterizes when they finally have to come forward because of some, "new york times," "washington post" story or whatever. >> i would be more concerned if the episodes themselves, the meetings turned out to be of some substantive meeting

and his meeting with the russian lawyer. all this comes as the president will sign a new russian sanctions bill where congress actually limits the president's ability to weaken those sanctions. with justice correspondent pamela brown live in washington. she has read through jared's statement. give us the headlines. >> this is the first time, chris and alisyn, that president's senior adviser and son-in-law, jared kushner, is sharing his side of the story about russian contacts and says, point blank, i did not collude nor know of anyone else in the campaign who colluded with any foreign government. i've not had any improper contacts. i've not relied on russian funds to finance my business activities in the private sector and insists no additional meetings with russians other than the four contacts that have already been reported in the media. he did provide fresh details about those meetings. he says besides a quick meet and greet with russian ambassador sergey kislyak the only other one was the infamous meeting at trump tower

mueller is doing, i assume he is looking at this and look at the russian connections, any russian involvement in our elections, and what the campaign had to do with it. we will not see it while the investigation is going on. they are confidential. what we will see eventually is if he takes action on this and then we will see what is going on. host: he does not need to announce philia springing in for interviews? guest: no, he does not. normally, you do not want to announce you are bringing in or give people warnings. he may be talking to major players now. is hiringok at who lawyers. that is an indication. host: chris, maryland, republican. caller: good morning. in april 2016, the new york times [indiscernible] and two, comey stopped investigating clinton and trump jr. gets a call there is information, that the dnc was looking at the campaign to the and this was all preconvention, so it is a little shaky, pressure, but with insider information, it is nice to get. at the same time, democrats are trying to block any reform of voter fraud and manipulation. i just wondered about that. host: the t

there is absolutely no conversation between either ago lar rov and the russian prosecutors or russian government that hillary clinton or the u.s. campaign ever, didn't happen. >> you're positive? you have seen those e-mail trails and those phone records? >> there is no such conversation that happened, that's right. >> that they tell you. would you agree with me, though, that when you read this e-mail trail and you look at the time stamps and you look at what it refers to, a normal person would look at this and say it would seem there is a phone conversation. >> i can see why you're drawing that inference. but the e-mails don't say thanks very much, i spoke to amin or thanks for helping. >> simply an implied one. >> i understand the suggestion and all i can tell you what my folks say and what those folks say, and they have no recollection of a conversation happened. we're checking. but that is not definitive to me and it is inconsistent with what i understand to be the case. >> and in terms of phone records, ago lar rov and his father, are they going to be giving all phone records over

you don't take the russians at face value. >> why? >> because russia is our strongest adversary in the world. because russia is run by a former kgb operative. you can't work. it is illegal to work with foreign entities in an election campaign. that needs to be clear to everybody involved. >> what if you don't know who you are dealing with or what information you are getting. that seems to be the early defense for don junior that i didn't know who i was meeting with. this e-mail would be disruptive of that. who knows if he read the e-mail or if he paid attention to the e-mail or if he believed the e-mail? what does that mean in terms of the analysis? >> well, i think i'm not a lawyer and obviously this is for the special counsel for robert mueller, why he is in place, he is a very credible person in washington. to be fair to donald trump junior, this all depends on whether or not the story in the "new york times" that came out late last night is true. the angle you asked me about is in my domain in foreign policy. you can't work with t

this russian advocate was that channel. one thing we need to investigate is, did this just begin a conversation? did she report that information, the receptively to getting that information back to moscow? did he reported back to the family that had approached him? they would not only love to get it, but late in the summer. it was late in the summer the stolen emails began to be published. these are the kinds of questions that need to be answered. here i think you have a quite direct evidence the russian government had damaging information, communicated that to the campaign, and all the campaign denials of whether we know it was going on or the russians had involvement, obviously now have to be viewed in a completely different context. >> has the committee been in touch with trump junior or his lawyer yet, and you plan to request documents from him? mr. schiff: we certainly want him to come before the committee. i do not want to discuss what we are saying with witnesses. we certainly want him to come in and everyone connect

they all meet with russians. all of them. >> they should meet with russians but they are not running a campaign! he was a central actor in his father's campaign and he responds to an email that says, here's information intended to interfere in the campaign provided by the russian government, come to the meeting, and he brings the campaign chai chair. >> eboni: we will take a very quick break. we have a lot more to say. we will be right back. ♪ whoooo. i enjoy the fresher things in life. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor's freshest, lowest prices. so if you're anything like me... ...you'll want to check tripadvisor. we now instantly compare prices from over 200 booking sites... ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. go on, try something fresh. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices. will >> i think the mainstream media as has probably done themselves a pretty big for sere by going so far, like going so extreme, by being so sensational. i think it is pushing r

these russians were trying to get to us. the kremlin. not all russians. there's nothing wrong with being a russian attorney. but they were trying to do this. it's clear they were trying to do this. look what they did to my son. we have to find out how to stop it. >> here's why i believe they won't do it. they say there's nothing wrong with the two nuclear superpowers of the world having a good relationship. their goal is to have a good relationship with russia. so they won't even dignify the questions that come up seemingly every day or every week, about the connection. they won't even go there. they think this is all as you heard him say, sort of this media intervention. and regardless of if they answer our questions there is this investigation continuing by bob mueller. so we can just wait to hear what the investigation comes up with. it will reach a conclusion. but in the meantime, we take an opportunity when we see the white house folks to say, hey, do you have any response to this? >> right. and i think it's about a -- i mean more so than i've seen w

russian government on hillary clinton. with me now is a member of the house intelligence committee, democratic congressman eric swalwell of california. congressman, i know the house intelligence committee is kub t conducting its own investigation. what do these e-mails prove, if anything? >> good afternoon, jake. this is what working with russians look like. it's been offered information damaging to your opponent by the russian government in a meeting at trump tower with senior donald trump's son to mess with the campaign. it fits the pattern with what we've seen with the political and financial ties that the president has had with russia. >> so we know the setup to the meeting, but donald trump jr. says that that meeting was not about damaging information for hillary clinton. do you know of any evidence that suggests that's not true? >> i don't, and the explanation that it was about russian adoptions, can you imagine you're running for the highest office in the land, time is your most precious resource, and you're taking

no contact with russians? not true. no politically moat have aed contact with the russians? not true. no politically motivated with russians with ties to russian government? not true. donald trump jr. believed this attorney had ties to the russian government. these e-mails in very plain english lay out even more, politically motivated contact with a russian individual with claims of ties to the kremlin promising information that would help achieve what is billed as the russian goal of hurting hillary clinton and helping donald trump. it is the first such encounter that someone close to donald trump has acknowledged and the president's eldest son certainly qualifies as close. so does jared kushner and paul manafort. it may turn out to be the only encounter or one of many. one that's clear the reaction from the white house is different this time. the president has not gone on a tweet storm so far. white house spokespeople have not vented their outrage at the media, haven't hollered fake news or issued a formal denial at all. only this late today from sara huckabee sanders read

bhauz the russian-- what the russians are doing has implications for them as well. the inf treaty, we have been kind of silent now our government and nato itself and theeuropeans in particular about the russian ongoing violation of the inftreaty. it may be because smarter minds are thinking this has implicationsfor the chinese because it's a mobile capability, it can be directed towards others. why don't we bring in the chinese, the indians, other countries that have a stake in lowering the risk of actual kineticmilitary contact and building confidence. and then i would say, again,that that's probably the most important thing we could do at the higher level. and i would agree completely with the under secretary. weneed to be calm, vigilant and flexible > >>> one subject we all touched on was obviously the transparency aspect or the lack thereof. so i think that is one of the things that i'dlike to hear from you, under secretary, about how the lack of it isimpacting preparations and he calculations that the baltics are making and broaden it out how it's impacted the

let's bring in ambassador michael mcfaul, former ambassador to the russian federation and msnbc russian affairs contributor. thank you very much for joining us. i want to get down on how a meeting like this can happen or what the motivation was. how high do you think the process or how high do you think it went, the idea to try and get into the trump campaign by dangling potentially negative information about hillary clinton? >> well, i would just be speculating. i want to be clear that i don't know the answer to that. but i know that system pretty well. the prosecutor general's office i know well. that is very close to vladimir putin. that's one of the top four power ministries, they call them, and so for somebody to say they have dirt on clinton, led us send an envoy to talk to you about it, suggests the russian government was involved in this. >> would they go through a russian pop star, the publicist of a russian pop star to get a meeting with trump jr.? >> sure. you know, you have got to remember the system is one system, it's an authoritarian system. everybody is connected to ever

if a russian said that to you? i think the interest here anything attached with russia plus donald trump is collusion or obstruction or is illegal. i think thatis obstruction or is illegal. i think that is a fallacy. we have had strong disagreements on this programme andl strong disagreements on this programme and i have been leading the charge about what the president is doing butjust by the fact donald trump is doing butjust by the fact donald trumer happy is doing butjust by the fact donald trump jr happy meeting is doing butjust by the fact donald trumer happy meeting with someone he did not know and succeeded in cremation —— had information on the secretary of state, i don't think thatis secretary of state, i don't think that is a problem. if he knew he was meeting a russian, that is more problematic. it is not. you're talking about someone who was not paid employee of the campaign and just because someone from a foreign country asked to meet does not make it illegal. i met with several officials from fore

million from the russian treasury. they were basically trying to take the tax rebate away from arbitrage capital. tickets, located on the financial side, but he uncovered the scheme and went to the authorities in russia. when he did that he was arrested. he was held under really trumped up charges for about a year and a russian prison where he dies. the russian human rights court investigated his death and found he suffered severe beatings and was never treated and that was the cause of his death. the mass human rights abuses. since then, many russian human rights activists and opposition leaders were involved in trying to get some consequences for his death. the act was that consequence. host: we are talking with alina polyakova of the atlantic council about u.s. sanctions imposed against russia. democrats can call (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. , (202) 748-8002. we have heard a lot about adoptions being a part of this meeting and about the act. tell us how adoptions work into all of this. guest: when th

income, russian contracts, russian business for several years. he saw no russian foreign agents at trump towers. and his role in the campaign was limited to sort of a mi militaristic ideal with paul manafort. any questions? >> militaristic campaign structure is not how people have described the trump campaign structure, especially early on. part of this donald trump jr. meeting was they didn't know what they were doing. was this a sophisticated operation when you were there? was this people who knew what they were getting into, as far as you knew? >> when donald trump was talking about running for president told me he was going to do it totally differently. i could go into chapter and verse on that, but you saw it during the campaign season. during the primary, it was basically, you know, an events-oriented organization. there wasn't a communications department to speaks of, there wasn't an opposition research department at all. policy, et cetera, wasn't around. that had to be really difficult for the campaign, for mr. trump and for anyone coveri

the russian mafia does. it is important to understand, i think when americans hear the term "mafia," they think of "the godfather." the russian mafia is not like that. if you're in relations with the russian mafia, there are the boss and your the apprentice. they can say "fired." they have compromised him. and they're also an arm of the russian government. russia is a mafia state. i think what is extraordinary, 's, he isutin .rganized the compromised the man who happens to be president of the united states now. amy: you talk about a trip that trump made to moscow in 1987 during the gorbachev years. why did he make that trip? >> this was his first trip to russia. sort of wooing going on or he was hoping to build a trump tower in moscow. he -- for theme, first time, you see his presidential ambitions surface. immediately when it comes back. he goes up to new hampshire afterwards. he has been a lot of powerful people in russia. he goes up to new hampshire as if he is dipping his toes and the presidential waters

the russian mafia is an adjunct of russian intelligence. so you are being compromised in effect especially if you end up as president of the united states. >> so when he tells lester holt, when donald trump tells lester holt just a connal months ago that he really has had precious few dealings with russians over the years. he says i sold a house to a very wealthy russian businessman many years ago. i had the miss universe pageant in moscow a long time ago. other than that i've had nothing to do with russia. >> that's absolutely ridiculous. in new york you have databases where you can go through all of the purchases for example at trump tower which is something i've done. and every time you get a russian name you just google it. i mean so he sold many amounts there. in florida he had developments where about a third of the units were sold to russians. in panama city panama he uses trump tower. and dozen and dozen of the units were sold to russians. so this was a fire sale in a way to bring in russian money. donald trump, jr. said as much. >>

the russians. at this point in time we do not have that information. we need to focus on the facts we have. and what is treason would be assisting russia in an attack on the united states. russia did conduct an attack on the united states in 2016 through computer hacking to disrupt our democratic election process just as they did in france a few weeks ago. and anyone who assisted in that or wanted to help the russians disseminate that information, even for their own partisan political ends jibl engaged in treasonous conduct in assisting in an attack on the united states. but we need to get the facts. all i'm saying is the facts reported in "the new york times" article come very close if not is crossing the line with respect to treason if those facts are true. we need to find out what's true. >> richard pain ter. thanks very much for joining me, sir. >> thank you. >> and joining me now is sam none berg, a long time donald trump aid and a confident who was fired early on in the presidential campaign.

russian government. it wasn't of my money or firm's money but of the rush than government's money, $230 million. it was the largest tax refund fraud in the history of russia. we thought that putin was a nationalist, that he wouldn't have allowed his own officials to steal from his own country. we figured if we brought it to the attention of the highest authorities then the good guys would get the buy bad guys. we wrote criminal complaints to every different branch. i went to the newspapers. it turned out in putin's russia there are no good guys. about six weeks after he testified against a bunch of corruption officials they came and arrested him and put him in pretrial detention. they put him in cells with 14 inmates, 8 beds and lights on 24 hours a day. they put him in cells with no toilet, just a hole in the floor where the sewage would bubble up. they would move him from cell to to cell and get him to sign a false confession that he stole $230 million. because he refused the pressure increased and in

and he can project russian power. a lot of that comes from russian propaganda. you get an echo of the points on russian tv from some of these anchors saying that putin is so strong and everyone is so weak. partially it is that. but they do see that russia has a huge role in both the region and mideast. >> glor: what do people in russia think about donald trump >> they're disappointed. >> glor: what way >> they heard a candidate who said we won't med dle in syria or elsewhere. who said i love putin, he said nice things about me, i'm going to say nice things about him and the bombing of syria after the chemical weapons attack convinced russian that is trump, to quote the spokes woman, you know, the swamp has drained trump basically. meaning that trump is just another republican president. and there's disappointment that he hasn't been able to deliver on what he -- at least what the candidate, trump, the presentation of on russian tv seemed to suggest, which was a much better bilateral relationship and that obviously has not happened. most russia watchers say this

to fight russian hacking. it's drawing sharp criticism and sparked a new response from the president himself. the fact that pre

because at the state department i dealt with russian disinformation and russian active measures they call it. i want to add one thing to what the intelligence officer said. is that sometimes the russians do a the the faint. maybe they wanted us to think they're tampering in this election. they have a term of art in the russian military called the gray zone. the gray zone is about the fact that nothing seems clear at all. that is what they look like. they like grows frozen conflicts they like things unclear np that's what they're doing now. to get to the first question, yes they're completely on the back foot and will be probably forever. while the investigation is going on until that is consummated i mean they're going to be asking question about this and you have a president by all accounts is absolutely obsessed with this. and may be watching right now about it. >> our great thanks to our starting panel. last day of the week but our first segment on a friday night token, indira, rick thaupg soefrp. coming up after the first break, the legal team that keeps growing to deal with the

this one said a russian government attorney was flying jer from moscow. trump, jr., agreed to meet with her on june 9th and said campaign chairman paul manafort and the president's son-in-law jared kushner would also attend. n ey were copied on trump, jr.'s, response. then-candidate trump was at trump tower at the time of the e eting. the white house says he was unaware it was going on and only learned about it recently. less than a week after the meeting, the democratic national committee accused russia of hacking into its computer servers. the following month wikileaks began releasing stolen d.n.c. e- mails. de russian government lawyer, stalia veselnitskaya, denied siat she ever promised compromising information about clinton or that she worked for the kremlin. re "i do not represent interests of anyone other than myself in this sttuation today," she said. trump, jr., posted the e-mails on twitter to be "totally transparent," but the "new york times" says he released them only after its reporters told adm they had obtained the messages. today white hou

according to the hill, this russian lobbying effort has ties to three russian buysmen, and the lobbying team included a former democratic congressman and former government official. now, the report also details how these pro-russian lobbyists, including one of the people who met with donald trump jr. also tried to meet with democrat and republican members of congress. so in other words a lot of people involved in this. we're also learning tonight that back in march, senator chuck grassley published a complaint, where he detailed how a russian lobbyist in this story worked with that group we've been telling you about. fusion gps. remember they published the fake document about president trump, and that goes to the ritz carlson, and that goes to hookers. remember all that? they were there to lobby congress on the manisi act. also how several obama agencies allowed this russian lawyer to enter the u.s. back back in 27 2015 and stay through her meeting with donald trump jr. sounds like they have explaining to do tonight. because after all of this russian lawyer was such a threat, like the l

the russians with whom mr. page engaged in moscow would have been reporting on their contact with an american businessman to the fsb. that's standard procedure. >> page returned to new york, opened his own firm and moved into the building next door to trump tower. at which point he was approached by a man who said he was a russian attache at the u.n. >> this is what he reportedly said in his reports about his meetings with you. he said you traveled to moscow all of the time, that you are quote hooked on gas prom and very greedy. now that sounds to me like a spy who is writing back to his handlers about your potential weaknesses he wants to exploit. >> i know a lot of the top managers of gasprom. known them for many years. if they wanted to offer me a bribe, do you think they would have a junior attache make this offer? it's so nonsensical. >> he reports back to moscow that he received some papers, documents from you. did you give him any papers? >> i may have given him, e-mail him a copy of some public research

well he knows an awful lot of people that were involved with the russians and we know the russians were very much involved in our camp. trying to disrupt the public's confidence. and a democratic process that we have a democracy as we know it the orderly transfer. of power at the highest level in our country and one of the highest levels in the world. as we take that very seriously and. my concern is that no one seems to be that much. concerned about that or have an interest in that and now i want you to know that. we have senators and congress. people represent the good people of america and the people much virginia i represent. are concerned. . so we're going to continue to push on if you will. want it tomorrow. votes on this bill imposing sanctions against russia that you in the senate already. went for how encouraging is it that the president signs this as soon as possible to send a signal to russia. i'd be very hopeful that it when you have something that passes. and the united states senate by a vote of ninety seven to two. that is a tremendous tremendous support for something tha

from the russian government? >> you know, i've been a campaign manager my whole life. maybe it was like the fourth or the fifth campaign before you figured out that everybody who came to you said they had the dope on your opponent and was completely full of it. so no, it wasn't wise. that was naivete, not criminal. so i would not have held the meetin meeting. i bet now they wish they hadn't use had the meeting either. she had nothing to offer. >> so whether she had anything to offer or not, isn't it -- doesn't it at least show -- whether it's actually illegal or not, doesn't it at least show a willingness of collusion on the part of donald trump jr.? >> i don't know what the legal definition of willingness of collusion is. i don't think there is one. you know -- >> i'm not asking for a legal definition. i'm just saying, doesn't it seem that he's open to the idea of colluding with the russian government? >> no, i don't think that at all. sounds to me if anything they were naive in trying to get information about h

trump or his firms have received russian income or loans or entered into russian linked partnerships. we have a right to know that. the legislative branch has a responsibility in the authority to check the executive branch under section 6103 of the tax code. which allows for an examination of his returns. the authority put in place specifically so congress could examine conflicts of interest in the executive, following that great scandal in the early 1920's. by the way, in conclusion, it is not enough for a republican congressman to go to town meetings and say, yes, the president should give us his tax returns and then not come back to washington and not have the courage to stand up and to say, this is the direction we should be going. that is not good enough. there has been over 20 people on the other side that have said he should release his tax returns, but will not devote to do it. congress can and must use its authority to address president trump's tax returns and give the american people the transparency they deserve. i would like to introduce the great congressman from the stat

and i think the russian intelligence and russian government said, you know, we should try for the trifecta here. let's see if we can't make a little bit of contact with somebody in the trump team, just to see if they're willing to play ball. just to have an initial conversation. there's no doubt in my mind that the lawyer had to have been from the government, because nobody else would have had the type of information she claimed aside from somebody that had contact with the russian government. so this sounds like the russians trying to go a little further in this operation and tried to get a human angle to it in addition to the other stuff. >> the attorney for these two russian guys, the pop star and his father, says that the pop star was basically make thing connection to goldstone for the russian attorney, because she was an acquaintance and he was doing a favor because that's how things work. does that make sense to you, or is it possible that, you know, the father here has links to the russian government or does business? obvious hi he's very successful in real estate there. and that w

hands of the russian regime. i make this assumption because i agree with it. i need not go over the ground that has been covered. what then do we do? first of all, as was the case during the cold war, nothing will work if we lose political and ideological struggle. we need to have faith in our own democratic system, in ourselves, in the free world and when we do that, we have a foundation from which to proceed. i say this because now that very foundation is also under attack, both from without, from the russians but also from within, from people not necessarily at all connected with russia so this is a different kind of a struggle. it's not my purpose to go into that, but i want to mention it. secondly, a u.s. policy designed to push back against russian club autocracy needs to be -- there's nothing incompatible against pushing back on russian aggression and seeking those areas of common ground where it may be possible. i wouldn't be too hopeful about the positive agenda, but you don't rule it out. a second point

if you met with this russian lawyer. might be able to help with the campaign. now that we have the element in the e-mail of -- and this will be information from the russian government, what does that mean legally? >> this is an astounding thing. we have, for sure, more evidence for mr. mueller to look at and get the details of. but it is collusion with a foreign adversary if they were working together to get the information from the russian government, and that's what this looks like. it looks like clear proof of collusion. >> bill browder, you know natalia veselnitskaya, the lawyer who was in this meeting, the russian lawyer. apparently donald trump changed his story over the weekend. first he said the meeting had nothing to do with campaign issues. it was all about adoption and, you know, repairing the rules that would allow adoption of russian babies. then the next day, his statement said, no, it was about getting actual campaign information. that's what the meeting was really about. then she turned it into a meeting

>> with the russians. if anyone was dumb enough to think it up, the idea it could be put forward and discussed with the russians, something is wrong. this is so improvisational and -- >> this is why you don't have the national security adviser in there because you want to be able to float your own crazy theories. >> putin floated it and trump dressed it up. maybe that's a good idea. >> if you doesnn't have the com sense to say no at the moment, at least say we'll get back to you. >> we have no more idea of what happened in the meeting with donald trump than we have with the meeting with don jr. and this attorney. >> we do know he was played. >> obviously when he came out talking about a joint cyber security force. >> you can assume that putin went in with a fairly clear list of items on his agenda. >> and some say there are allegations you meddled in the election. putin's response is always very smart saying i did not do that and please show me the evidence. what putin wants america to do is cough up the s

she's a russian attorney. talk about cutouts if you will, because in a situation, a sensitive situation, issue like this, the russian government, the russian intelligence community, would not necessarily employ a specific russian operative, but they would have what they call cutouts. >> exactly, wolf. this lady you should look at, the lawyer, as an access agent. that's what the russians would call her. she was sent to the trumps to probe their willingness to cooperate. it's very clear at this point. and once they said absolutely, yes. then you handed off down the line whether it's to a kgb officer, another cutout, but the russians are very clever and not going to send a diplomat from new york, for instance, to make an indecent proposal like this. they send somebody where there's plausible deniability. this lawyer and they're denying it now, of course. but this is a classic kgb m.o. trade, craft. anybody with any sense at this point would have called up the fbi and said, you wouldn't believe this, bust i just g

and that may again be raised by the russians. of course there's always the sort of unknown when it comes to donald trump. i mean who knows what topic he is going to raise and what offer he is going to make. >> and those are a lot of things for a sideline meeting. so really, you know, if there is a second meeting or if this meeting will help cement that there will be yet another meeting, then that might demonstrate some real groundwork, you know, some real ground has been made between these two men, right? >> reporter: yeah. i think in terms of expectation management, what the russians are saying is that if they can achieve simply an agreement to have another meeting at some point later on down the line, then that would be seen as a success. and so their expectations are very low. if this is not an abject failure, if it doesn't disintegrate into some kind of chaos, i think many russians will be very happy with that outcome for this fifrst meeting >>> let's talk about this with counterterrorism analyst, philip mudd, a former fbi se