he is a belgian national, he's called roland van hauwermeiren. right. now, it was he the director of operations in liberia at the time? no, he was the country director. myjob was partly to be his assistant, but also to be a grants manager. and i shared an office with him, and so i knew his schedule and so on. he picked me up from the airport, which i thought was a little bit odd. but um, but it was a nice chat and so on. but i remember clearly that he had a phone call, and took a phone call from someone that he obviously knew. i felt that they were talking about me, very quickly. and, um, there was something said about a green light. um, i didn't reflect so much on that at that particular moment, but i have since. i felt that he was checking out, seeing what kind of person i was, and would i be a problem. a problem in the sense of what? taking exception to his behaviours? possibly, yeah. because i think we need to talk about what behaviours you saw from him and other members of the merlin ngo staff on the ground in liberia. because this individual is, o

did you confront your direct boss, roland van hauwermeiren. what did you say to him? i did us anything to him at that time. there were about three or four men involved in this, i thought. they suspected that i had reported it, but they went short. they knew that a team was coming down from london. did you believe the local girls were prostitutes that you saw? i believed that there was some sort of something that was definitely an imbalance of power. i don't think there would have been there just out of wanting to be there. i think that they were expecting something. whether it was paid sex or not, i have no proof. i certainly felt that it was inappropriate and went against the rules, our code of conduct, our security rules and so on, at that point. it was still very strict, then. in liberia, this wasjust after the civil war, of course. what i wanted to say is that the time that it took the london team to come down, these individuals absolutely worked on me. i was under surveillance, almost. someone was almost always with me, and they had private chats to me, and try t

one of the men allowed to resign without disciplinary action was the country director, roland van hauwermeiren, who admitted using prostitutes at the villa rented for him by 0xfam with charitable funds. the chief executive at the time, barbara stocking, offered him a dignified exit, including a month's pay, to avoid repercussions on the charity's work and staff. 0xfam's mission statement champions helping marginalised women to claim their rights and empowering people to create a secure future. so why were the men involved never publicly disciplined 7 why did the charity allow this perception of a cover—up? and how can taxpayers be sure that money is being spent by organisations with thorough oversight of the actions of their staff? before we came on air, i talked to barbara stocking, 0xfam's former ceo. she stood down from the role in 2013. i asked her why she hadn't investigated the people involved. the first moment i heard back in 2011 we sent an investigation team. also, it's not true that it wasn't transparent. we put a press release out when the investigation team was investigating. we

were you with mr roland van hauwermeiren? no. why were you let go by 0xfam? its country director in haiti, admitted using prostitutes. he's spoken of lies and exaggeration. pay, because dismissing him would have damaged the investigation. the bbc source challenges that account. they didn't need him to stay and help with the investigation. of the investigation team. which alone is enough. when they were thinking of hiring him. of aid workers is set up. information about what went on. the haitian government has launched its own investigation. mps in parliament. the questions for 0xfam keep on coming. james landale, bbc news. has been jailed for 32 years. of a child. sima kotecha reports. so, what, what — what was it i've done? what is it i'm supposed to have...? dr matthew falder being arrested at his workplace last year. pictures of themselves. it sounds like the rap sheet from hell. distributing indecent images of children. more obscene images. to film them in the shower and using the toilet. falder contacted more than 300 people worldwide. one of his victi

as you say, it's the first time roland van hauwermeiren has broken his silence after a week where the allegations have been building and building. as director for operations for oxfam in 2011, and with a british different charity in 2004 in liberia. he spoke to reporters on his doorstep and gave a different account, he said it was lies and exaggeration. he spoke about how in the last week since the allegations his family hadn't spoken to him. he also posted an open letter to the media today, he went through detail by detail how he didn't believe any of these allegations from liberia onwards, specifically in haiti saying he was involved in a sexual relationship with a haitian woman but didn't pay for prostitution and she wasn't a victim of the earthquake. we are hearing that high—profile figures including the south african archbishop desmond tutu has left the organisation and said he was disappointed with the allegations. thank you. members of british steel's pension scheme were the victims of a "major mis—selling scandal". mps on the work and pensions committee say the scheme's me

were you with mr roland van hauwermeiren? no. why were you let go by 0xfam? 0xfam's report says roland van hauwermeiren, its country director in haiti, admitted using prostitutes. he's spoken of lies and exaggeration. but it also says he was allowed to resign with dignity and a month's pay, because dismissing him would have damaged the investigation. the bbc source challenges that account. they didn't need him to stay and help with the investigation. as far as i'm concerned, roland was not part of the investigation team. roland, from all accounts, owned up to his own behaviour, which alone is enough. today, 0xfam officials met members of the haitian government. tomorrow, senior executives from the charity will face mps in parliament. the questions for 0xfam keep on coming. james landale, bbc news. on day 10 of the winter olympics, an anti—doping case has been opened against a russian medal—winning curler. the scandal could threaten russia's effo rts the scandal could threaten russia's efforts to regain full 0lympic status. the first ever bronze medal in m

were you with mr roland van hauwermeiren? no. why were you let go by 0xfam? 0xfam's report says roland van hauwermeiren, its country director in haiti, admitted using prostitutes. he's spoken of "lies and exaggeration". but it also says he was allowed to resign with dignity and a month's pay, because dismissing him would have damaged the investigation. the bbc source challenges that account. they didn't need him to stay and help with the investigation. as far as i'm concerned, roland was not part of the investigation team. roland, from all accounts, owned up to his own behaviour, which alone is enough. the bbc has been told 0xfam refused to tell another aid agency why mr van hauwermeiren had resigned, when they were thinking of hiring him. 0xfam said it was legally constrained but would have liked to have said more and will be giving no references until a register of aid workers is set up. today, a senior 0xfam official travelled to haiti to apologise and expressed the charity's shame directly to ministers and share more information about what went on. the ha

the actions of senior 0xfam employee roland van hauwermeiren in chad and haiti never properly dealt with. at that time, the use of prostitutes was not explicitly contrary to 0xfam's code of conduct. bringing 0xfam into disrepute, in any way abusing people who may have been beneficiaries of course was. so there was an exploration of how should the organisation should respond? but we didn't act on it and, more significantly, we allowed him — because there weren't formal complaints — we allowed him to move onto another post, and that was our failing. so will then need to be more resignations? i still feel we have not done enough. if it is felt by those who employ me that i am not doing that forcefully enough, or well enough, they will have my resignation straightaway. 0xfam's bosses were called in to meet ministers this morning with question marks about the £32 million the charity receives from the government. ministers here at the department for international development know british charities do good work overseas, but with 0xfam only telling half the story about what happened with i

i think roland van hauwermeiren is a particularly interesting case study. he has been able to manipulate the system for a very long time. he has chosen to move around from different countries. between organisations. he knows that it has not been tracked properly so he has manipulated that. still to come on the programme, we find out about the soaring rate of measles in europe. we will speak to the who about what is causing that. jeremy corbyn has accused papers of lies and smears. these papers allege thatjeremy corbyn did meet someone from the czech embassy several times. that story has been picked up and pursuit in various forms by newspapers in recent days. jeremy corbyn has hit back in a post on social media. at what he calls press barons, the right—wing press. he says... he goes on... this is outside source live from the bbc newsroom. our lead story is from syria. more than 100 civilians are killed in eastern ghouta today as syria's government continues to bombard the rebel—held enclave. it is close to damascus. some headlines from bbc world service

amy: that is roland van hauwermeiren, sean o'neill? say, is entitled to his but i'm very confident in my sources, but the human sources i've spoken to that were there at the time you know exactly what went on in that investigation. and very confident of the documents we obtained, some of which are a transcript of his words. amy: we're going to come back to this discussion. we're talking to sean o'neill, chief reporter at "the times of london" on the series of pieces that is blowing open, this scandal around oxfam as oxfam tries to contain the damage. in addition, we will be joined by writer edwidge danticat and taina bien aime, the head of the coalition against trafficking in women. stay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: debuting care on democracy now! is ais democracy now! continued look at how oxfam has been hit with dozens or conduct allegations involving a slew of countries in the days since the "times of london" reported oxfam in to cover up sex crimes haiti after the devastating 2010 earthquake. joining us from london is sean o'nei

in this letter, roland van hauwermeiren says there were no six parties at all. but he says he did have intimate relations with the women in haiti. he says she was not a prostitute but in his words, amateur, honourable woman. not an earthquake victim but someone who 0xfa m earthquake victim but someone who 0xfam held. he went on to say... the final reason he gives for resigning is that he had a long—standing dispute over strategy with 0xfam and adds that was the end of this very lengthy letter, penny lawrence, the deputy of oxfam who has now resigned, he says she did not deserve to quit over this and all the types of behaviour discussed all the types of behaviour discussed a —— are reprehensible. we have a further development from 0xfam. the admitted that one of the other seven men sacked in haiti just a few months later was rehired by 0xfa m a few months later was rehired by 0xfam in ethiopia. now, they have said that this was indeed a serious error and they are now investigating whether this person had any other issues, as they put it, during a time in et

roland van hauwermeiren denied paying for sex and said that an event he attended in haiti was not a sex party. one in every six children, is now living in a global conflict zone, according to save the children. the charity says children are at more risk from armed conflict now, than at any other time in the last 20 years. when you are travelling, how careful argue with your belongings when you go through security or a train station? bubbly not as vigilant as this woman. she actually climbed into an x—ray machine during a security check because she was so worried about being separated from her handbag, much to the surprise of security staff. she emerged a p pa re ntly security staff. she emerged apparently unscathed from the experience and the woman simply left the area immediately afterwards. it's the beginning of what could well be the biggest annual celebration worldwide, the lunar new year, also known as the spring festival. 0ver1.4 billion people around the world marked the official entry into the year of the dog with lanterns, banquets and colourful celebrations. let's take a loo

van hauwermeiren, was the same man who five years later in haiti resigned after admitting using prostitutes. later in haiti resigned four others were sacked. later in haiti resigned as the scandal grows, the international development secretary, penny mordaunt, has sent a strong warning to all british charities receiving public money — they will lose the cash if they can't show a robust approach to safeguarding. if they can't show a robust i am very clear, it does not matter whether you have a whistle—blowing hotline, it does not matter if you have got good safeguarding practices in place, if the moral leadership at the top of the organisation is not there, we cannot have you as a partner. she said oxfam didn't give her department the full facts about what happened in haiti. give her department the full facts it's about, was there any harm done? give her department the full facts was there any involvement of the beneficiaries of aid involved? was there any impact on them? the beneficiaries of aid involved? and they told us categorically no. the beneficiaries of aid involved? and they als

roland van hauwermeiren denied paying for sex and said that an event he attended in haiti was not as alleged a sex party. jennifer anniston and her husband justin theroux have announced that they are separating after less than three years of marriage. the 49—year—old star of the american sitcom friends, and 46—year—old leftovers actor, said inajoint statement that the decision was mutual and lovingly made at the end of last year. now, how careful are you with your belongings at security at an airport or train station? probably not as vigilant as this woman. she climbed into an x—ray machine during security check for fear of being separated from her handbag, much to the surprise of security staff. emerging apparently unscathed from the experience, the woman left the area immediately afterwards. it's the beginning of what could well be the biggest annual celebration worldwide, the lunar new year, also known as the spring festival. more than 1.4 billion chinese people around the world marked the official entry into the year of the dog with lanterns, banquets and colourful cele

van hauwermeiren. translation: some expats come to haiti to work. others come to party and look for deals every night. the drivers had no choice. it was theirjob and they had to do it. another former of security guard claimed that young and underaged girls were among the victims. "i can tell you for sure there were sex parties at the house," he tells me, "young people would come to the office looking to the director, and i'm sure those people are not there for work." for its part, the haitian government confirmed that it is ready to open a full investigation. it may be what happened at oxfam is just the tip of the iceberg, they said. other organisations agree that the problem go beyond oxfam alone. the international organisations see money, a lot of money, but the result? i am not seeing zero, zero. but you cannot see the result. oxfam is facing perhaps the biggest result of its history. its international reputation is in serious jeopardy. if it will take time for it to rebuild its name in the united k

roland van hauwermeiren describes how he handled situations in liberia, chad and haiti. he denies paying for sex and said an event he attended in haiti was not — as alleged — a sex party. south africa's new president, cyril ramaphosa, has vowed to crack down on corruption, a day after his predecessorjacob zuma was forced to resign. mr zuma faces numerous allegations of improper dealings, which he's always denied. the new president is tasked with rebuilding his country's economy and uniting a fractured political system. our africa editor fergal keane has more. in the place they call the mother city of the republic, exaltation at what they felt was nothing less than deliverance. and inside, the words that signalled the arrival of a new and very different order. i declare the honourable cyril ramaphosa duly elected president of the republic of south africa. he knew this moment was coming, but he had seemed abashed. in his first words as president, the tone was consciously humble. when one is elected in this type of position, you basically become a servant of the people

in an open letter, roland van hauwermeiren, admitted he'd had an intimate relationship with a woman in haiti, but said she was not a prostiture. the international head of the charity, winnie byanyima has invited anyone who's been abused by 0xfam staff to tell their story and obtainjustice. 0ur diplomatic correspondent, james landale, has been speaking to her. the earthquake that struck in 2010 reduced much of haiti to rubble. but the after—shocks are still being felt by 0xfam. in her native ugandan, 0xfam's global head said sorry for the sexual exploitation carried out by some of her staff in haiti, something she told me she only found out about last week. i'm inviting anyone who has been a victim of abuse to come forward, we're going to do justice, we'll atone for the past. right now thousands and thousands of oxfam staff doing the right thing in the most dangerous places in the world. she promised a new independent commission to investigate 0xfam's handling of past cases, tougher new checks on staff work references and more cash for safeguarding vulnerable people. changes that migh

roland van hauwermeiren, who resigned from 0xfam, has finally spoken to a belgian broadcaster and denied the main allegations against him. translation: some unprofessional journalists are claiming oxfam organises sex orgies using money from donations, which is absolutely untrue. he said he was solely in haiti to lead oxfam's operations at a difficult time for the organisation and the country. he condemned sex parties with prostitutes as reprehensible. he admits having a relationship with a local woman but insists she was not a prostitute. anything else, he says, is malicious rumour. translation: that was just as respectable as if i met a woman here. we fell in love. there is nothing wrong with that. i admit i should have known better at the time that gossip can spread and causes vision and be wrongly interpreted. doubtless, the majority of oxfam employees came to haiti with the intention of doing good, to help with the restoration after the devastating earthquake in 2010. but the charity is holding on by its fingertips, in danger of being thrown out of the country altogether after allega

in an open letter, roland van hauwermeiren said a reception held at his home in haiti was not, as alleged, a sex party. the us secretary of state, rex tillerson is warning the involvement of lebanese militant group his brother in regional wars will have a negative impact on lebanon itself. —— lebanese militant group hezbollah. mr tillerson was speaking in beirut, where he held talks with the president, speaker of parliament and the prime minister. germany's chancellor has been holding talks with the turkish prime minister. angela merkel told binali yildirim that berlin wants to see a fastjudicial process for a german—turkish journalist held in turkey. the jailing of deniz yucel has put a strain on relations between the countries, and mr yildirim said he hoped we began this programme with news of gun violence in florida. a few weeks ago, i went to the city of compton in california to look at how they've reduced the number of killings. compton became famous in the 1980s for gang wars. it was one of the most dangerous places in the country and the birthplace of gangsta rap. but, with b

the head of the mission at the time, roland van hauwermeiren, was the same man who five years later resigned after admitting using prostitutes. four others were sacked. oxfam will not confirm the details, but says it is shocked and dismayed by the report, which highlights unacceptable behaviour by a small number of people. as the scandal grows, the international development secretary, penny mordaunt, has sent a strong warning to all british charities receiving public money — they will lose the cash if they cannot show a robust approach to safeguarding. i am very clear, it does not matter whether you have a whistle—blowing hotline, it does not matter if you have got good safeguarding practices in place, if the moral leadership at the top of the organisation is not there, we cannot have you as a partner. she said oxfam did not give her department to full facts about what happened in haiti. at a meeting tomorrow, the charity will be given one last chance, or be stripped of its public funding. today, more revelations about other aid agencies — reports that christian aid, save the children

the actions of senior 0xfam employee roland van hauwermeiren in chad and haiti never properly dealt with. at that time, the use of prostitutes was not explicitly contrary to 0xfam's code of conduct. bringing 0xfam into disrepute, in any way abusing people who may have been beneficiaries, of course, was. so there was an exploration of how should the organisation respond? but we didn't act on it and, more significantly, we allowed him — because there weren't formal complaints — we allowed him to move onto another post, and that was our failing. so will there need to be more resignations? i still feel we have not done enough. if it is felt by those who employ me that i am not doing that forcefully enough, or well enough, they will have my resignation straightaway. 0xfam's bosses were called in to meet ministers this morning with question marks about the £32 million the charity receives from the government. ministers here at the department for international development know british charities do good work overseas, but with 0xfam only telling half the story about what happened with its s

van hauwermeiren. translation: some expats come to haiti to work. others come to party and look for girls every night. the drivers picking up the girls had no choice. it was theirjob and they were told to do it. another former security guard claimed young and underage girls were among the victims. i can tell you for sure there were sex parties at the house, he told me. young people would often come to the office looking for the director, and i'm sure these people weren't there for work. for its part, the haitian government confirmed to the bbc that it is prepared to open a full investigation into the allegations. it may be what happened at oxfam was just the tip of the iceberg, they said. we will start with the oxfam allegations to open a broad investigation into ngos operating in haiti. other haitians working in the charity sector agree that the problems go beyond oxfam alone. after the earthquake, organisations, international organisations, received money, a lot of money. what is the result? i will n

van hauwermeiren, admitted to using prostitutes in his residence during a humanitarian aid operation before his resignation in 2011. it is amazing what you just pointed out, that he was fired from another charity years picicked himfam then up, not there what t they knew.. well, , last week k van hauwermn dismissed the allegations of sexual misconduct. >> i don't feel good about the people who are told by perhaps less professional jouournalists that oxfam is an instrument to have sex or geez using the money from good civilians. that is absolutely not true. amy: that is roland van hauwermeiriren, sean o'neilill? say, is entitled to his but i'm very confident in my sources, but the human sources i've spoken to that were there at the time you know exactly what went on in that investigation. and very confident of the documents we obtained, some of which are a transcript of his words. amy: we're going to come back to this discussion. we're talking to sean o'neill, chief reporter at "the times of london" on the series of pieces that is blowing open, this scandal around oxfam as oxfam tries

van hauwermeiren. translation: some expats come to haiti to work. others come to party and look for girls every night. the drivers picking up the girls had no choice. it was theirjob and they were told to do it. another former security guard claimed young and underage girls were among the victims. i can tell you for sure there were sex parties at the house, he told me. young people would often come to the office looking for the director, and i'm sure these people weren't there for work. for its part, the haitian government confirmed to the bbc that it is prepared to open a full investigation into the allegations. it may be what happened at 0xfam was just the tip of the iceberg, they said. we will start with the 0xfam allegations to open a broad investigation into ngos operating in haiti. 0ther haitians working in the charity sector agree that the problems go beyond 0xfam alone. after the earthquake, organisations, international organisations, received money, a lot of money. what is the result? i will n

this is something 0xfam appears to have ignored as roland van hauwermeiren, the charity‘s directory in haiti, went to work for another aid organisation in bangladesh, even though the charity says he resigned for using prostitutes. parts of the reports are blacked out to hide people‘s identities but 0xfam says it has given an unredacted copy to haitian ministers whom senior managers from the charity will meet later today. james landale, bbc news. a paedophile university lecturer who posed as a woman online to target more than a0 victims is to be sentenced today. 29—year—old matthew falder has admitted blackmailing women into sending him humiliating images of themselves. falder was caught in an international police operation, after three of his victims tried to kill themselves. phil mackie is at birmingham crown court. falder has been described by the national crime agency is one of the most dangerous and depraved offenders it has encountered. tell us offenders it has encountered. tell us about the background of this case and how he was caught. it is a truly sickening case, some of

the article accuses roland van hauwermeiren, who was oxfam‘s haiti director at the time, and others, of using prostitutes at a villa rented by the charity. oxfam were in haiti as part of the relief effort after an earthquake in 2010. more than 200,000 people were killed in the disaster. today, penny lawrence stepped down saying... this former oxfam employee in haiti says she raised concerns at the time. there was a lot of rumours on the ground about management and leaders exploring the locals, sexually and in other ways to getjobs, to get good standing. these were ongoing rumours that would come to me through the drivers and other employees. so on many occasions, i would share those rumours with my boss. oxfam launched its own investigation into the claims 2011. it led to four people being sacked and three others resigning, including mr van hauwermeiren. today, the charity‘s chief executive admitted changes in the organisation hadn‘t gone far enough. straight after haiti, oxfam took forceful step. we committed to, a whistle—blowing liner that brings the person not into the coun

this is something 0xfam appears to have ignored, as roland van hauwermeiren, the charity's director in haiti, went on to work for another aid organisation in bangladesh, even though the charity says he resigned for using prostitutes. parts of the reports are blacked out to hide people's identities, but 0xfam says it has given an unredacted copy to haitian ministers, whom senior managers from the charity will meet later today. james landale, bbc news. former football coach barry bennell will be sentenced today for historical sexual assaults committed on young boys in his care. the 64—year—old, who worked with manchester city and crewe alexandra's youth teams, was convicted of 50 child sex offences at liverpool crown court. the former scout is thought to have abused more than 100 boys over a period spanning three decades. the equality and human rights commission says a survey of 1100 employers it commissioned has revealed "antiquated" attitudes to recruiting women. the poll found that more than half believed a woman should have to say if she was pregnant during the recruitment proces

this is something oxfam appears to have ignored as roland van hauwermeiren, the charity's directory in haiti, went to work for another aid organisation in bangladesh, even though the charity says he resigned for using prostitutes. parts of the reports are blacked out to hide people's identities but oxfam says it has given an unredacted copy to haitian ministers whom senior members from the charity will meet later today. james landale, bbc news. three billboards outside ebbing missouri, a film about a mother seeking justice for her daughter's murder, was the big winner at the bafta awards last night. it won five prizes including best film and best actress for frances mcdormand. the theme ofjustice and equality for women dominated the event, with most guests wearing black to show solidarity with campaigns against abuse and harassment, although mcdormand admitted that she chose to break the dress code. i have a little trouble with compliance. laughter. but i want you to know that i stand in full solidarity with my sisters tonight in black. we should also mention that gary 0ldman won best

were you with mr roland van hauwermeiren? no. why were you let go by oxfam? 0xfam's report says roland van hauwermeiren, its country director in haiti, admitted using prostitutes. he's spoken of lies and exaggeration. but it also says he was allowed to resign with dignity and a month's pay, because dismissing him would have damaged the investigation. the bbc source challenges that account. they didn't need him to stay and help with the investigation. as far as i'm concerned, roland was not part of the investigation team. roland, from all accounts, owned up to his own behaviour, which alone is enough. today, 0xfam officials met members of the haitian government. tomorrow, senior executives from the charity will face mps in parliament. the questions for 0xfam keep on coming. this is a direct formal apology from 0xfa m this is a direct formal apology from 0xfam to the government in haiti tonight, i suppose in some sense the charity did not have any other choice. in these circumstances 0xfam has to be transparent, that is why we have the latest report, but also c

roland van hauwermeiren reportedly denied the allegations, but did resign. what this latest news does, perhaps, is simply harden the suspicion that oxfam is just the tip of an iceberg. i'm joined now from boston by diane mazura na, from massachusetts tufts university. she has conducted a major study of sexual assaults in the aid industry. and in the studio we have bocchit edmond, the haitian ambassador to the uk. if i can turn to you diane, there a difference between sexual assault and using prostitutes. but what did study find? what we found in the study was sexual assault and harassment of humanitarian aid workers was pretty widespread. the most reliable numbers we have is about 24% of aid workers, women aid workers, reported being sexually assaulted while on a mission. and we found that the primary perpetrators are other men who are humanitarian aid workers who are their colleagues and usually people in a position of power, more higher ranking than them. but also male security officers hired by the agencies to provide security. and i think one thing we mu

changes that might in the future stop 0xfam employing men like roland van hauwermeiren, its former director in haiti, who has denied paying for sex. translation: some unprofessional journalists are implying that oxfam organises sex orgies using money from donations, which is absolutely untrue. what is true is that oxfam now faces the huge task of trying to rebuild public confidence. winnie byanyima said more oxfam staff could be sacked if they're found to have mishandled past cases, but... we have almost 10,000 staff around the world working in more than 90 countries. the majority of those are doing the right thing. you cannot give that guarantee that there are no sexual predators working for your organisation? how would i be able to guarantee that there is no one who is going to offend? what i can guarantee is that we will build a new culture that doesn't tolerate that behaviour. what went on in haiti has cost oxfam donations, public trust and celebrity ambassadors. miss byanyima said the organisation was demoralising but she insisted it would survive. what doesn't kill it, she said, will