, michael flynn, might reveal? a reminder, this revelation comes six days after dowd resigned from donald trump's legal team. his exit reportedly prompted -- was prompted by disagreements with the president. the white house is scheduled to hold a daily briefing any minute now. we'll bring you that live when sarah huckabee sanders begins taking reporter questions. let's go right to "the new york times" michael schmidt. he joins me now by phone. michael, great job as always. just walk me through what you and the times have learned. >> last summer has muller was building his cases against flynn and manafort, dowd went to their lawyers and broached the idea of a pardon with them. dowd has told people that he believes the case, particularly against flynn, is very flimsy. the president has long thought it was not a real case. and that there's no reason for these guys to plead as they should, you know -- that they did nothing wrong. now, the question is, is that was dowd speaking for the president? people that know dowd f

. >> about michael flynn, would you consider a pardon for michael flynn? >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see. i can say this. when you look at what's gone on with the fbi and with the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> frank fa glues i, this seems to connect the dots in the president's firing of jim comey, the president's enthusiasm for the firing of andrew mccabe. the president certainly has laid the foundation in tweet after tweet in news cycle after news cycle, in coordination with fox news night after night, to have a narrative already established for what he just described, pardoning mike flynn. >> so, we all have seen the public proffer of the possibility of a pardon sending subtle messages. now with this reporting today we see a far more direct approach to people while they're in the grand jury process. and as jeremy said, you usually talk pardon after you've been convicted, after the process is over. so, a couple thoughts. one is it's really hard to imagine a scenario where

remember flynn was cornered and even after strzok and other agents interviewed flynn, and according to james comey himself. they believed that he did not lie. and so special counsel robert mueller found a way to get him to plead guilty to one count of lying to the fbi. i think there are more questions than answer and we are on the road. >> sean: mueller squeezed him and ruined his life. >> he has to sell his house. and they threatened his kids. my sources tell me they did threaten his son. this is overzealous prosecutors and the powerful government that can ruin you financially and no wonder that michael flynn finally threw in the towel. >> sean: what about christopher steele. he is the guy behind the trump hoax. he went to russian government source and clinton paid for it all. and we are told that he didn't believe his own salacious report. >> i read the answers in the british court case and makes it clear that all. information is unverifiable. and would be denied by his sources. because the sources didn't xift. and if you read closely and carefully. steele is admitting that the entir

he said i don't know what flynn did wrong. he said comey and salliates had said that flynn didn't do anything wrong. i don't know he would pardon him for. this mirrored some of the reporting we had done that showed that dowd was telling people close to the investigation that he and the president thought the case against flynn was flimsy and that there was nothing there. so that added up in terms of what dowd was telling us on the record today. >> so he raises this according to your reporting with both lawyers while they're being investigated by mueller. they're ultimately indicted. what if the president were to pardon you. what happens after that is floated according to your reporting? >> well, that's the thing. it looks like manafort was not interested in it. manafort has long pain maintained his innocence. he said he's done nothing wrong and thinks this government overreach and says he wants to fight it. flynn went and accepted a plea agreement from mueller. he did not count on a pardon from trump. now, why did he do that? w

he was there at the interview of michael flynn when michael flynn said something false to the fbi. i don't know how all this fits together. these three key facts happened. there was was a recusal there was a relationship between the judge and peter strzok. and the department of justice was making it very difficult as congress both tom and ron have pointed out to do our constitutional oversight. those three facts are indisputable. so, let's ask why that was the case. why can't we get the information and why in fact did this judge recuse himself? >> sean: let's go back to this new reveal and it says congressman desantis in a text message with strzok, page to strzok, rudy means judge contreras is on the fisa court. did you know that? just appoint you had two months ago and they discuss other things and of course peter strzok says we did. we talked about it before and after. i need to get together with him. these two hate donald trump. and then they are best friends with the judge on the fisa court. now, there were four separate fisa court judges that were all lied to because they neve

flynn lied and it's like, they ruined his life. >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see. i can say this. when you look at what's gone with the fbi and with the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> so, gloria, what does this tell you about the president's mind-set? >> well, we know that the president believes that the fbi and the justice department have been corrupt and that they're running an investigation that is not credible. we know how he feels about that. we know that last summer the discussion came up with his attorneys, we reported it, as did others, where the president kind of just asked -- and i was told it was like a civics lesson -- where the president just asked, well, you know, what is my authority vis-a-vis pardons? and that was kind of explained to him. this news today, i think, takes it to a different level, where you have, according to "the new york times," tough president's lead attorney raising the issue with lawyers for flynn and for paul manafort. what we don't know, and i saw preet bharara on the

michael flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi. paul manafort pleaded not guilty to among other charges, money laundering. you'll hear more about them later in this story. one lesser known player is also in the hot seat. donald trump first mentioned him at a meeting with washington post editors in 2016. >> george papadopoulos, an oil and energy consultant, excellent guy. >> excellent guy, george papadopoulos has pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi in the russia investigation. >> mr. president, you called george papadopoulos an excellent guy. what is your reaction. >> mr. president, what's your reaction to george papadopoulos's guilty plea. >> thank you very much. >> the trump team has been working overtime -- >> he was the coffee boy. if he was going to wear a wire, all we'd know now is whether he prefers a caramel macchiato over a regular american coffee. >> but the coffee boy found himself to the big boy table. he may be the very reason there's a trump/russia investigation. back in may of 2016 papadopoulos told an australian diplo

before he pleaded guilty, flynn was facing a lot of tough legal issues. but mueller only charged him with one count. so it's possible that flynn has an even bigger story to tell. >> we're seeing manafort come in now with counsel. >> paul manafort, the president's former campaign chairman is also facing possible jail time, potentially for the rest of his life. he's charged with concealing his work for a foreign government, conspiring to launder millions of dollars, and conspiring against the united states, among other crimes. 23 counts in all. he has pleaded not guilty. the special council makes an aggressive argument that this is someone who can't be trusted. >> manafort made a lot of his money working for this man. putin's ally, viktor yanakovich. the former president of ukraine. after -- yanukovych was a strong man who presided over a deadly crack down against protesters in the streets of kiev. he left his country in disgrace. manafort had helped bring him to power. >> paul manafort has for decades been the washington lobbyist and influence peddler arou

and we'll see what michael flynn wants to do. but right now as far as we know, remember we are usually behind things, things are happening behind the doors we don't know about. but stars we know, that agreement between michael flynn and robert mueller still exists. >> i want to get to a side issue. peter strzok and lisa page are still working at the fbi. they were involved in all these manipulations to keep trump out of the white house. they were pushing very strongly the trump dossier, the piece of garbage. it is clear now that even the people involved in creating the dossier didn't believe a lot of the stuff that was tonight. we are now getting information that mr. steele who wrote the thing out didn't believe some of the most of salacious things that were in the trump dossier. >> there is a new book out by two of the journalists who were briefed by christopher steele, two of those journalists have written a book, and as far as we know that steele continues to maintain what he calls the broad assertions of his dossier are corre

the firings of james comey and nsa's michael flynn. national security adviser michael flynn. does it seem like the walls could be closing in on this president? is that why he's -- >> well, i mean, he knows more about what they want than we know, and mueller knows more about what he's after than he knows, so it's hard to say, the one thing that i think is interesting is people -- i saw allen dershowitz earlier on anderson's show saying that he thinks the special council is overstepping his bounds and so on. it seems to me that mueller's being careful and he's examining those areas that relate to russia. that i find interesting, of course he's going to look at the firing of comey and the departure of flynn. i'm sure flynn now having turned witness is telling him exactly what trump knew about flynn's activities. nothing on that list do i find particularly surprising. >> i can't wait to see the axe files. you talk to charles barkley? >> yes, charles barkley a week from thursday. >>> white house insiders aren't the only ones who continue showing up. what stormy daniels is tweeting

and flynn is cooperating with mueller. he agreed to cooperate at end of last year and he knows a lot of things. he was around for the entire campaign and met with russian officials did youing the ambassador during the transition and he is at the heart of the more curious events with the phone call with the russian ambassador around the obama administration decision to put sanctions in place to punish russia for election meddling. and flynn getting fired shortly after he joins the white house for misleading the president -- the vice president about the nature of his calls with the ambassador. there is a lot of things that flynn knows. we don't know the full except of his cooperation but we do know in exchange for dropping charges against him or only charging with him a few things he agreed to talk to mueller. >> that is michael schmidt. his by line from the new york times out just a few minutes ago. thank you. >>> stormy daniels's attorney wants trump to sit down for a deposition to find out what he knew and when. he is ask

that flynn interview, remember those agents in that interview were pretty convinced flynn was being truthful. were those 302s changed? this is serious stuff. judge jeanine: leslie, what do you think about that, leslie? flynn, even people in the fbi think what he said was not intended to be a lie. >> quite frankly i'm not looking at the information that robert mueller is and he's the guy that has the power. i don't. and i trust him and i trust what he's doing, i say let this investigation play out. judge jeanine: if mueller got rid of strzok because he was that bad which is pro hillary based on all their contributions, the fact mueller got rid of him tells me he's in deep deep trouble. >> i don't agree with that necessarily. even if there is collusion and prove of obstruction of justice. the republicans in congress won't impeach this guy. they don't have the guts. judge jeanine: maybe there isn't a basis. mike huckabee will join me later with some of the most of outrageous statements from the left. you know what's awesome? gig-speed internet. you know what's not awesome? when only certain peo

flynn lied it is and like they ruined his life. i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. are when you talk about what has happened with the fbi and the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> so we've seen this report in the "new york times" west see what nemd dose two occasions. and you have to assume that maybe he's thinking about it. >> certainly he was thinking about it at the time but the context was very important. michael flynn had just pleaded guilty. the president was being asked about that. you can see the president there is almost trying to give his former adviser and supporter a life line saying, i still support you. you did not do anything nearly as damming as hillary clinton. still talking about that nearly a year after the election yet. , the president has spoken out about pardons before. the question is, is there an exchange for doing something. and it is important to point out they can different things. of course it is on his mind how many he was active in it. we don't know. >> i haven'

and i'm sure flynn now having turned witness is telling him exactly what trump knew about flynn's activities. so nothing that is on that list i find particularly surprising. >> yeah. thank you. always a pleasure. i can't wait to see "the axe files." by the way, you'll talk to charles barkley. >> a week from saturday, yeah. >> that's going to be awesome. thank you. >>> when we come back, white house insiders aren't the only ones who keep showing up in the news. stormy daniels continues to make headlines. what she's tweeting now about her alleged affair with donald trump. 'sup, world? it's the box with 30% savings for safe drivers. coming at you with my brand-new vlog. just making some ice in my freezer here. so check back for that follow-up vid. this is my cashew guy bruno. holler at 'em, brun. kicking it live and direct here at the fountain. should i go habanero or maui onion? should i buy a chinchilla? comment below. did i mention i save people $620 for switching? chinchilla update -- got that chinchilla after all. say what up, rocco. ♪ say what up, rocco. directv gives you more for your

keep in mind, both manafort and flynn were charged by mueller last fall. flynn pleaded guilty. but manafort didn't. is that because he's expecting a pardon? it's a question tonight. the president has been repeatedly himself asked about whether he would pardon both men? and here's how he has responded? >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see. >> are you going to pardon manafort? >> thank you. >> dowd himself says as far as he knows, there were no discussions about pardons. and when you hear all this, a lot of as far as i know, i'm not aware, i haven't had any conversations, not right now, it's a lot of what's coming from the white house team. and it raises some serious questions. outfront tonight jeff zeleny live at the white house. jeff, the president announcing on twitter getting rid of david shulkin, and does it hours after hearing major development involving possible pardons. interesting timing. >> erin, no question the president knows how to change the subject and how these announces these is his own decision. he contro

i have to imagine that the mueller team has now talked to flynn and talked to flynn's lawyer and said, well, what happened with respect to the pardon offer? what were the words used? was there an offer made? was there a wink? was there a hint. ? also, more importantly, was it clear that john dowd was speaking on behalf of the president? was the president the one who was directing this, and that makes a lot of difference, i think. >> just so i'm clear, john dowd could -- could john dowd have raised this notion of a pardon and it not been some sort of an inducement for them to not cooperate with an investigation? >> yes. i want to make clear with respect to all these reports that come out in the "new york times" and elsewhere, there's never detail of what the conversation actually was, what the words were in fact. >> so the words are key here, what words were used? >> yeah, there's a spectrum, right. to hypothesize, at the one end of the spectrum, if john dowd said, i hope, you know, you're doing okay. you know the president has pardon power. that's not great to say because it suggests

pardons for michael flynn yet. let's see what happens. let's see. i can say this, when you look at what is going on with the fbi and the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> dowd who resigned from the preside president's legal team denied there were any discussions about pardoning flynn and manafort. the president's lawyer ty cobb said no pardons are under destruction -- under discussion or consideration. and sarah huckabee-sanders today toed the line. >> are you worried about what paul manafort or michael flynn will tell special counsel robert mueller. >> as we've said every day since we've got here because you continue to ask about this topic every single day. there was no collusion and we're very confident in that aclook forward to the process wrapping up. >> this process does not look like it will wrap up any time soon. the mueller team just filed new documents in court that said both manafort and rick gates who was top -- the top deputy were communicating with someone who had active ties to russ

flynn. these discussions took place over the summer at a time when the grand jury was hearing evidence against mr. flynn on a range of potential crimes. of course, mr. flynn ended up cutting a deal with the prosecutor. so one question is, you know, would this prevent him from cutting a deal and telling the special it would be very, very unusual for mr. dowd to do something like this and freelance it. but we know that mr. trump himself, you know, raised the idea of pardons. so, you know, i think it's, you know, very significant development. >> in the "new york times" article you quote john dowd as saying there were no discussions, as far as i know. no discussions. you quote jay sekulow one of the president's private attorneys saying never have i had any pardons of any individual involved in this inquiry. and white house chief counsel, ty cobb, one of the white house counsel's, ty cobb, has given us the same statement he has given the times saying i've only been asked about pardons by the pres

he thought the case against flynn was filimsy. he said what would we have pardoned flynn for. that was part of the argument when he talked to his lawyer. he said why would you plead to such a thing. we can take you out this way. echoed. the thing you have to understand about all of this, one very basic question. was john dowd out on his own freelancing? was he simply just running his mouth talking to other lawyers or was he doing this at the behest of the president? people that know john dowd. >> michael submit, you have the president of the united states himself talking to people asking about the possibility of the flynn pardon, asking about what he can and can't do as president of the united states. pardoning others. so that does seem unlikely that dowd would be going on on his own without the president's support or advice, doesn't it. >> people who know dowd find it hard to believe he having such a high profile client with such power would go out and do such an aggressive thing. it would have such aggressive discussions with it. at the time, what you have to understand abou

some of the meetings had either flynn or nader. sit more than just an additive result that you get two people cooperating rather than one in secret meetings like this? >> reporter: it's incredibly important to have more than one because then they can cob rate each other. you get one story from flynn, you separately ask nader. if they tell you the same story, they make it more believable. we also had bannon at one of those meetings so you may have all of them telling you. you can probe their stories to see if they're consistent on the details, if they are it becomes more believable what they're describing. don't forget flynn with the leverage they have over him, he has the incentive not to just answer questions yes or no but to offer everything he can to get a better deal at the end of the day. >> barbara mcquad from the great state of michigan. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. rage, rage against the dying of the light. do not go gentle into that good night. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ dinner date

flynn and mr. manafort might reveal were they to cut a deal. the washington post has more of a time frame. and what else was dowd doing right about that time? keeping him honest, he was denying what he was doing what the times and the post reported he was doing. take a look at cnn's coverage from july 20th of last year. >> taking a look at issues related to pardoning potentially his aides and family members if necessary. even inquired about the ability to pardon himself. the president's lawyers called that reporting nonsense. >> now at the time the post reporting did not mention floating the prospect of pardons. quote, there is nothing going on on pardons, research, nothing, not happening, never has happened. nothing going on on pardons. now the times and post reporting bears out that denial, would not be true which may be why today's press secretary sarah sanders is careful about saying pardons in the present tense. >> in the report that you are asking about, with which he said only about asked about pardons by the press and have routinely res

some of the others had either flynn or nader. is it more than just a additive result that you get two people cooperating rather than one in meetings like this. >> it's important to have more than one. they can become self-corroborating. if you get one story from flynn and separately discuss what happened at the meeting with nader, if they tell you the same story, that makes it more believable. and we also had bannon at one of those meetings. you may have all of them at those meetings telling you. so you can probe their stories to see if they're consistent on the details. if they are, i think it becomes more believable what they're describe. don't forget flynn with the leverage they have over him has every incentive not just to answer questions yes or no but to offer up every detail he can in an effort to get a better deal. >> barbara mcquaid, appreciate your time tonight. thank you. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. found in light. it makes us feel alive. it illuminates our world and connects us to each other. with transition

interview flynn. so this is going to be very interesting to see what they get. >> sean: all right. thank you he both. we have a jam pack pad line up tonight. geraldo rivera, dan bongino, the great one mark levin weighs in on stormy stormy story and fake news straight ahead. each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps. that's the height of mount everest. because each day she chooses to take the stairs. at work, at home... even on the escalator. that can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. scholl's orthotics. clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. so keep on climbing, sarah. you're killing it. dr. scholl's. born to move. >> sean: welcome back to hannity. here with my reaction to hun log nra contributor and former secret service agent dan bongino. also with us this book is amazing. and geraldo has lived a thousand lives in one. your stuff about war and your background. nearly 50

interview flynn. g so this is going to be very interesting to see what they get. >> sean: all right. thank you, both. we have a jam packed line up tonight. geraldo rivera, dan bongino, the great one mark levinin weighs in on stormy stormy story and phony fake news straight ahead. ♪ my name is jeff sheldon, and i'm the founder of ugmonk. before shipstation it was crazy. it's great when you see a hundred orders come in, a hundred orders come in, but then you realize i've got a hundred orders i have to ship out. shipstation streamlined that wh the order data, the weights of , everything is seamlessly put into shipstation, so when we print the shipping ll everything's pretty much done. it's so much easier so now, we're ready, bring on t. shipstation. the number one ch of online sellers. go to shipstation.com/tv and get two months free. ♪ >> sean: welcome back to "hannity." here now with reaction to my opening monologue, nra contributor and former secret service agent dan bongino. also with us -- thi

>> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see. >>> let's talk about stormy daniels. last night, david schw a arz, the attorney representing the president's attorney, michael cohen, said the president had no idea about the agreement or others cha cohen had arranged. >> it seems like a simple question and you are cohen's spokesperson in this. can you say unequivocally that the president was never aware of the $130,000 and the agreement itself inspect. >> the president was not aware of the agreement. at least michael cohen never told him about the agreement. i can tell you that. >> what about the money? >> he was aware about any of it. he wasn't told about it. michael cohen left the option open to go to him. he chose not to. it was much more than attorney and client because he's that close to him. he had great latty attitude to handle these matters. >> so they happen with such frequency that -- >> look, michael was the fixer. it could be anything. it's not that this -- there were a ton of matters that took place that micha

. >> about michael flynn, would you consider a pardon for michael flynn? >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see. i can say that. when you look at what's gone on with the fbi and with the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> back in july, "the washington post" reported, "trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members, and even himself in connection with the probe." today former trump lawyer john dowd and current white house attorney ty cobb denied there were any discussions about pardoning flynn and manafort. during today's briefing, sarah huckabee sanders gave a similar response but note her use of present-tense language during this critical point in this answer. >> can you say unequivocally no one here has discussed pardons in this case? >> i can say that ty cobb is the person that would be most directly involved in this, and he's got a statement on the record saying that there's no discussion and there's no consideration of those at this time in the white

by trump to let flynn go, so we know that trump felt strongly about flynn, but i'll tell you what that really means is that flynn was probably concerned about his son being prosecuted or concerned about state charges or there was some other reason why flynn flipped and we won't know now, we don't know now, but eventually i'm sure we will learn what that is. >> and margaret, again, you are here joining us because of your extensive experiencing in a nonpartisan capacity in dealing with his pardon and clemency issues, so you know as well as i do how often tweets are part o about time you pardoned general flynn, who has taken the biggest fall for all of you given -- what do you make from what we can glean from that, which is for some reason, we have this new report from the "new york times," and we have what lawyers would call a contemporaneous time in history, where flynn and trump were talking about pardons. this was in the water. >> let me make one comment to add to this. >> sure. >> the question of whether the president's pardon power is unlimited has two aspects, one is, is it unlimit

flynn has already pled guilty. manafort, of course, has not pled guilty and is preparing to go to trial. the other issue that pardons raise is that it could be something that you would dangle the possibility of to encourage people not to cooperate with the mueller investigation. >> isn't that the crux of this potentially? you know you know, you want to appease these two guys who may have potential dirt so that they don't cooperate with bob mueller? >> well, that is certainly a possibility. although, in fairness, we need to point out that they have both taken -- they have taken opposite tacts. flynn is cooperating, as far as we know. there is nothing in and of itself improper for the president discussing pardons. he is the president of the united states. the pardon power is a well-establish well-established power of the president. it's in the constitution. but in the context of this investigation, it would certainly be useful to learn in what context it arose and whether there was any improper motive. at least sugge

flynn violated a law against private citizens engaging in diplomacy. they're talking about the logan act. >> it's ridiculous. mark: here's my question to you. sally yates, the former deputy attorney general under the obama administration, she would become the acting attorney general for a short period under trump. she kept pushing this logan act as an excuse to have a widespread investigation of trump world. >> if you go back, there's actually an article that was written so it was david ignacious who first broke this at a legal league. a few days after there was another story where they leaked specifics of the call. this was before the -- i believe this was before the inauguration, and at that time for there not to have been an immediate investigation of where that leak came from, that should have been fire alarms going off everywhere to go and figure out how that leaked out? because this was a very sensitive intelligence capability that we have in this country that nobody seems to be worried about that this jeopardized anything. why? because they were

and flynn has nothing to do with the president. manafort's business had nothing to do with the president. so at the same time, this may have been they were distancing themselves publicly. >> the question is, whether dowd acted on behalf of the president. it is very clear he would not act without the president's blessing. very clear. >> i got to -- >> we'll come back. >> thank you 57. next, two legal heavyweights join us. also later tonight, with protests breaking out in california in the state capitol. today, it's the dawn of a new lawn. that's because roundup for lawns has arrived. finally, there's a roundup made just for your lawn, so you can put unwelcome lawn weeds to rest. draw the line. with roundup for lawns, there is no better way to kill lawn weeds to the root without harming a single blade of grass. it's a great day to be a lawn. draw the line with roundup. trusted for over 40 years. ♪ ♪ - i think it'll look really, really good without the stripes. - margo and sam had a vision, brought to life in one coat. ♪ whateve

that is not the choice that was given by two michael flynn. michael flynn if you recall was charged with false statements, even though jim comey's investigators reportedly believe that flynn did not intend to mislead them. that is not apparently the conclusion of the inspector general, with regards to mccabe. >> i think that he is right. the law enforcement officials are not above the law. if you or i lied to and fbi investigator, there will be consequences. if mccabe lied, there should be consequences. how would he treat us if we lied to his agents? >> bret: we will follow it. so far nothing, no word on anything whether there are moves in the administration. we have you covered here. next up, the friday lightning round, and the challenge for the president, is it possible, alleged threats against stormy daniels, and winners and losers. ♪ ♪ >> i stand before you today, the rarest of species, the american conservative. americanus never-trumpist. i hope that somebody runs in the primary against the president had i've not ruled it out. >> bret

flynn is. manafort we'll see what happens when he goes to trial. flynn is cooperating. to the extent that the president was going to pardon him in an effort to avoid that conversation, that time has come and gone. >> i've been trying to figure out how to think about this too. that power to pardon is pretty absolute for a president. we even had trump out there at least one point over time to talk about pardons hasn't come yet. it's almost like he floated it himself in public already. >> it's interesting that if this float was made that it didn't work and flynn is cooperating now. donald trump is built a reputation for himself over decades as a person that promises to do things and then doesn't do them. if i were michael flynn i would not be assured of a floated idea from john dowd of maybe he'll pardon you. there's a reason the president should be hesitant is that they lose their ability to take the fifth amendment against their right against self-incrimination when they're questioned with their interactions if they've been pardoned. if they can no longer be prosecuted.

, michael flynn, might reveal? a reminder, this revelation comes six days after dowd resigned from donald trump's legal team. his exit reportedly prompted --

flynn decided not to pursue it further. so there may have been no discussions, but it may have been raised with them. then secondly, there's odd suggestion that as far as he knows there were no discussions, well, he was directly involved in the discussions. either he knows he was involved in them or he doesn't. so it sounds a little bit like a variant on the "as far as i can recall", although it's not stated that way. >> it's hard for me to separate controversies in reporting and the ongoing troubles the president is having assembling a stable and talented legal team to defend him and represent him in this scandal and related matters. what do you make of the fact that the president's legal team has been so in flux and doesn't appear to have anybody that has experience. >> the president has had difficulty atrabtsing the people who have the most experience. he's also lost some of the lawyers that he started with. mr. kasowitz left, although he apparently is consulting with mr. trump by phone, mr. dowd has left. and won o-- on

michael flynn and paul manafort. those discussions last summer with the attorneys representing flynn and manafort "came as the special counsel was building cases against both men." they raised questions whether the lawyer john dowd was offering pardons to influence their decisions whether to cooperate in the investigation and plead guilty. times adds that "the talks suggest mr. trump's lawyers were concerned about what mr. flynn and mr. manafort might reveal were they to cut a deal with the special counsel." it is not clear whether the president directed dowd to discuss the possibility of a pardon or whether he knew about the conversations at all. white house press secretary sarah sanders addressed that question today and also said the conversations can described by the "times" have not taken place. >> did the president direct john dowd to you talk about the attorney for manafort and flynn about potential pardons. >> i'm not aware of that at all. >> did the president have a reaction to "the new york times"? did you a

. >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see. >> reporter: but dowd denies he ever discussed pardons with lawyers for flynn or manafort, saying, "there were no discussions, period. as far as i know, no discussions." dowd resigned just last week, frustrated the president wasn't taking his advice. now, president trump facing another legal headache. >> he's like, you're smart, beautiful and a woman to be reckoned with. i like you. i like you. >> reporter: the lawyer for porn star stormy daniels asking a federal judge in california for permission to depose the president and his attorney, michael cohen. he says there is precedent. former president bill clinton was forced to tape a video deposition in the paula jones civil case while he was still in office. this white house asked if president trump would sit down for the deposition? >> i'm not going to get into a hypothetical question. >> reporter: all the while, president trump still silent, no public appearances for the fifth day. >> a lot to pour t

this was before manafort and flynn had pled guilty to the charges -- or before flynn had pled guilty to the charges that the spk brougecial counsel brou against him, before manafort was charged. and these conversations speak to the tone that we've been hearing about at this white house for some time. the president mts has been asked about his willingness to pardon these individuals. and he has pushed dit off sayin that he will wait and see what happens. but the white house is now denying that these conversations are happening. dowd has denied that these conversations are happening. but of course this report from the "new york times" definitely raises the question of why this was being considered. and what they thought manafort and flynn might say to the special counsel that might be problematic for president trump. >> all right. abby phillip for us at the white house, thank you very much. we'll talk about this pardon issue in a moment. first though here to discuss some other things, our political analyst and commentator and also public policy director. you are a push pore policy guy.

. >> i don't want to talk about pardoning michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. >> they had asked about conversations at the white house about pardons. >> the president has the authority to pardon individuals but it hasn't been discussed. >> the question hinges on whether dangling includes obstruction. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. this is your "new day". it's thursday, march 29th, 6:00 in new york. here's our starting line. president trump firing his embattled v.a. secretary and tapping his white house doctor to replace him. the president insists dr. jackson is highly trained and qualified. but he has no real management experience. if confirmed, jackson will run the federal government's second largest department with hundreds of thousands of employees. well over 300,000. and it is plagued by in efficiencies. "new york times" reports that former lawyer john dowd may have floated the idea of pardoning michael flynn and paul manafort as special

the flynn investigation. all of that is further compromised and there are a lot of reasons that have been compromised to date. now the top, number two guy at the fbi is a documented liar according to their internal watchdogs. and that's why he has been fired. i can imagine he is upset about being called that by his colleagues in the agencies there, but it is a remarkable development and it shows you just how compromised this fbi was by comey's leadership. comey put this person in. he was his -- you know, mccabe was comey's protestor gay ancomey protege.he was accur misconduct for. pete: briefly, not just a liar but a leaker -- if we knew -- if there was anything on this president on collusion, i feel like it we would know it by now. does this put to bed that whole fallacy and ultimately does it turn the page to an investigation even more into the fbi? >> i don't know how many blows the russia collusion story is going to take before it dies the death it deserves. the mueller investigation is a zombie investiga

>> i think the problem is mike flynn didn't know better. his career is built upon thinking he can get away with it. he was enabled by so many different commanding officers. and then, you know, the story being he suddenly went off the edge and started behaving this way, i just find it hard to buy. if he had risen so high in the military and gotten those stars, there were many people signing off on mike flynn throughout the duration of his career. >> phil rucker, let me give you the last word on this part of the conversation. do you have any -- your paper moves the story forward. we still don't get at the why. do you have any sort of investigative theory on why all these back channels, this new one revealed in your paper today were set up with russia? >> i wish i did, nicolle. i think robert mueller has that -- >> he'd hire you. >> one important bit of context i think we should remember which is as all of this was going on, these back channel conversations in january of 2017 right before the inauguration, donald trump as president-elect was a