, michael flynn, might reveal? a reminder, this revelation comes six days after dowd resigned from donald trump's legal team. his exit reportedly prompted -- was prompted by disagreements with the president. the white house is scheduled to hold a daily briefing any minute now. we'll bring you that live when sarah huckabee sanders begins taking reporter questions. let's go right to "the new york times" michael schmidt. he joins me now by phone. michael, great job as always. just walk me through what you and the times have learned. >> last summer has muller was building his cases against flynn and manafort, dowd went to their lawyers and broached the idea of a pardon with them. dowd has told people that he believes the case, particularly against flynn, is very flimsy. the president has long thought it was not a real case. and that there's no reason for these guys to plead as they should, you know -- that they did nothing wrong. now, the question is, is that was dowd speaking for the president? people that know dowd f

has said and what michael flynn's lawyer said. at the time that the pardon floating apparently happened, michael flynn was not yet cooperating. he has now pled guilty and presumably in connection with that guilty plea and a decision to cooperate, he has provided conversatio details about the nature of a conversation with john dowd. >> could dowd be any trouble over this if this "new york times" report is true? >> it's unclear. it depends on what dowd specifically said. it also depends on who told him to do it. i mean, i think there are different ethical problems arise or exposure problems that arise, depending on what donald trump told him or didn't tell him. i think if he was acting as a rogue lawyer on his own, i find that completely absurd, because you would have to know that at least as a pr matter and as optics matter, if this became known, it puts a lot of pressure on the president and makes him look terrible. on the other hand, if the president had directed him to sort of feel the folks out and let them know that a pardon w

i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. are when you talk about what has happened with the fbi and the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> so we've seen this report in the "new york times" west see what nemd dose two occasions. and you have to assume that maybe he's thinking about it. >> certainly he was thinking about it at the time but the context was very important. michael flynn had just pleaded guilty. the president was being asked about that. you can see the president there is almost trying to give his former adviser and supporter a life line saying, i still support you. you did not do anything nearly as damming as hillary clinton. still talking about that nearly a year after the election yet. , the president has spoken out about pardons before. the question is, is there an exchange for doing something. and it is important to point out they can different things. of course it is on his mind how many he was active in it. we don't know. >> i haven't mattered piece of video in quite some time. there's abso

>> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see. >>> let's talk about stormy daniels. last night, david schw a arz, the attorney representing the president's attorney, michael cohen, said the president had no idea about the agreement or others cha cohen had arranged. >> it seems like a simple question and you are cohen's spokesperson in this. can you say unequivocally that the president was never aware of the $130,000 and the agreement itself inspect. >> the president was not aware of the agreement. at least michael cohen never told him about the agreement. i can tell you that. >> what about the money? >> he was aware about any of it. he wasn't told about it. michael cohen left the option open to go to him. he chose not to. it was much more than attorney and client because he's that close to him. he had great latty attitude to handle these matters. >> so they happen with such frequency that -- >> look, michael was the fixer. it could be anything. it's not that this -- there were a ton of matters that took place that micha

pardons for michael flynn yet. let's see what happens. let's see. i can say this, when you look at what is going on with the fbi and the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> dowd who resigned from the preside president's legal team denied there were any discussions about pardoning flynn and manafort. the president's lawyer ty cobb said no pardons are under destruction -- under discussion or consideration. and sarah huckabee-sanders today toed the line. >> are you worried about what paul manafort or michael flynn will tell special counsel robert mueller. >> as we've said every day since we've got here because you continue to ask about this topic every single day. there was no collusion and we're very confident in that aclook forward to the process wrapping up. >> this process does not look like it will wrap up any time soon. the mueller team just filed new documents in court that said both manafort and rick gates who was top -- the top deputy were communicating with someone who had active ties to russ

flynn, his lawyer, and michael flynn is now cooperating. when this overture was made, it was before cooperation. i have to imagine that the mueller team has now talked to flynn and talked to flynn's lawyer and said, well, what happened with respect to the pardon offer? what were the words used? was there an offer made? was there a wink? was there a hint. ? also, more importantly, was it clear that john dowd was speaking on behalf of the president? was the president the one who was directing this, and that makes a lot of difference, i think. >> just so i'm clear, john dowd could -- could john dowd have raised this notion of a pardon and it not been some sort of an inducement for them to not cooperate with an investigation? >> yes. i want to make clear with respect to all these reports that come out in the "new york times" and elsewhere, there's never detail of what the conversation actually was, what the words were in fact. >> so the words are key here, what words were used? >> yeah, there's a spectrum, right. to hypothesize, at the one end

. >> about michael flynn, would you consider a pardon for michael flynn? >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see. i can say that. when you look at what's gone on with the fbi and with the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> back in july, "the washington post" reported, "trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members, and even himself in connection with the probe." today former trump lawyer john dowd and current white house attorney ty cobb denied there were any discussions about pardoning flynn and manafort. during today's briefing, sarah huckabee sanders gave a similar response but note her use of present-tense language during this critical point in this answer. >> can you say unequivocally no one here has discussed pardons in this case? >> i can say that ty cobb is the person that would be most directly involved in this, and he's got a statement on the record saying that there's no discussion and there's no consideration of those at this time in the white

>> sarah, the president has said that michael flynn is a good man and also said that paul manafort is a good man. i'm wondering if the president believes he has the right to use the power of his office, power of pardon, to protect them from what he may see as unfair punishment down the road. does he believe he has that right? >> i would refer you back to ty cobb's statement. there's not discussion or consideration of that at this time. there would be no reason for me to have had a conversation with the president about that. that is not being currently discussed at the white house. >> with whether he believes he has the right to use the power of his office. >> the president has the authority to pardon individual bus you're asking me about a specific case in which it hasn't been discussed so i would not have brought that up with him. john? >> thank you, sarah. the president has the power, not ty cobb. >> which is what i just said to phil. >> not exactly. you talked about ty cobb's statement. the president has the power of the pardon. has he considered, is he considering, would he consid

he was there at the interview of michael flynn when michael flynn said something false to the fbi. i don't know how all this fits together. these three key facts happened. there was was a recusal there was a relationship between the judge and peter strzok. and the department of justice was making it very difficult as congress both tom and ron have pointed out to do our constitutional oversight. those three facts are indisputable. so, let's ask why that was the case. why can't we get the information and why in fact did this judge recuse himself? >> sean: let's go back to this new reveal and it says congressman desantis in a text message with strzok, page to strzok, rudy means judge contreras is on the fisa court. did you know that? just appoint you had two months ago and they discuss other things and of course peter strzok says we did. we talked about it before and after. i need to get together with him. these two hate donald trump. and then they are best friends with the judge on the fisa court. now, there were four separate fisa court judges that were all lied to because they neve

that is not the choice that was given by two michael flynn. michael flynn if you recall was charged with false statements, even though jim comey's investigators reportedly believe that flynn did not intend to mislead them. that is not apparently the conclusion of the inspector general, with regards to mccabe. >> i think that he is right. the law enforcement officials are not above the law. if you or i lied to and fbi investigator, there will be consequences. if mccabe lied, there should be consequences. how would he treat us if we lied to his agents? >> bret: we will follow it. so far nothing, no word on anything whether there are moves in the administration. we have you covered here. next up, the friday lightning round, and the challenge for the president, is it possible, alleged threats against stormy daniels, and winners and losers. ♪ ♪ >> i stand before you today, the rarest of species, the american conservative. americanus never-trumpist. i hope that somebody runs in the primary against the president had i've not ruled it out. >> bret

the president has sort of talked about this internally, the idea of pardoning michael flynn. and what the range of his pardoning powers is. which is broad. john dowd reached out to the attorneys for michael flynn and paul manafort to bring up the idea of trump pardoning them, this raises the question of whether he brought this up reportedly to influence their decisions before they struck any sort of deal with mueller's team or cooperated with them. there's no indication or no reporting to support that dowd actually discussed this with the president before he made these calls. but there are divided opinions in the legal community about whether this could constitute potential obstruction of justice trying to influence them. some argue that the president has broad pardoning authorities, this would not constitute. others say it could. those authorities aren't unlimited and you can't use it to impede an investigation. john dowd denies he had these discussions. >> she mentioned it, and without getting into the specifics about obstruction of justice, let's keep it simple. why would

has he considered, would he consider pardoning paul manafort, michael flynn or rick gates? >> as i said, an on-record statement from the president's attorney, here at the white house on these matters has made there's no discussion or consideration of this. >> another matter. the trade dealthat you spoke about at the top of the briefing regarding the u.s. and south korea. as part of this new trade deal, each u.s. car maker would be allowed to export 50,000 vehicles per year to south korea. right now it's capped at 25,000. but last year, if you look at most recent history, no u.s. automakers sold more than 11,000 cars to south korea. what makes you think that demand will arise so drastically? >> it also affects the parts component which is a major piece of this deal. we're going to continue working with auto manufacturing in this country. one of the other things that we've seen is an increase in by across the board and people actually making things in america again due to deregulation, due to the tax cuts. we expect business in america to grow and, therefore, the trade compon

he was there when michael flynn said that to the fbi. these three key facts happened. there was a recusal and relationship between the judge and peter strzok, the central figure in the whole affair and the department of justice made it very difficult for congress as both tom and ron pointed out to to our constitutional oversight. they are indisputable. and why was the case? why did the judge recues himself and why not get the information? >> sean: in the nonew reveal. strzok, page to strzok and rudy, meaning the judge is on the fisa court just appointed two months ago and discuss other thing and peter strzok said i did. we talked about it before and after. i need to get together with him. this is it, these two hate donald trump and then best friends with a judge on the fis a court. four separate fisa judges were lied to because they never informed the judges in the application that hillary bought and paid for unverified and uncorro bratted. >> peter strzok did so much damage to the reputation to the fbi with his arrogance. he and lisa page are manufacturing a dinner pa

michael flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi. paul manafort pleaded not guilty to among other charges, money laundering. you'll hear more about them later in this story. one lesser known player is also in the hot seat. donald trump first mentioned him at a meeting with washington post editors in 2016. >> george papadopoulos, an oil and energy consultant, excellent guy. >> excellent guy, george papadopoulos has pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi in the russia investigation. >> mr. president, you called george papadopoulos an excellent guy. what is your reaction. >> mr. president, what's your reaction to george papadopoulos's guilty plea. >> thank you very much. >> the trump team has been working overtime -- >> he was the coffee boy. if he was going to wear a wire, all we'd know now is whether he prefers a caramel macchiato over a regular american coffee. >> but the coffee boy found himself to the big boy table. he may be the very reason there's a trump/russia investigation. back in may of 2016 papadopoulos told an australian diplo

let's watch. >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see. i can say this. when you look at what's gone on with the fbi and with the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> so of course they handle this in very different ways. paul manafort, the campaign chairman for a time in 2016, he's not cooperating and he is fighting this. but michael flynn, of course, a short-lived national security adviser, is cooperating and has pleaded guilty. so as this plays out, the big questions, is this add go it all to the obstruction of justice case that bob mueller is also apparently looking into. >> thank you. i want to bring in the panel to talk about. this you know a thing or two about this. from a legal standpoint, would a presidential lawyer raising the issue in conversations with folks who at the time were being investigated, now been charged, is that evidence of obstruction of justice? >> you would have to know a lot more about what the conversation consisted of to know if this was evidence of obstruction of justice. the presiden

. >> this was one day after national security adviser michael flynn had been forced out. the white house said flynn was fired because he lied to the vice president about his conversations with the russian ambassador. questions have been raised about whether the president knew flynn also lied to the fbi, which is a federal crime. so another critical question is whether trump knew it when he said this according to comey. "i hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting flynn go. he is a good guy." >> it's the president of the united states with me alone, saying i hope this. i took it as this is what he wants me to do. i didn't obey that, but that's the way i took it. >> it is so wildly inappropriate. it is so contrary to how the government is supposed to work. and it may well be evidence of a crime. >> did you at any time urge former fbi director james comey to close or to back down the investigation into michael flynn? and also as you look back -- >> no. no. next question. >> it may have been comey's appearance on capitol hill just days before he was fired

bob mueller, because he's been talking to michael flynn for a very long time. it really is remarkable that there's hardly a story that we're reading about in the new york times, washington post, wall street journal or any newspaper that bob mueller hasn't already been digging into for months now. >> that's how it always is when you're a prosecutor, you're reading in the press frequently about evidence that you took in the grand jury the previous month or a couple of months ago, very often the press gets it wrong or the story is incomplete, so i think it's a safe bet that mueller and his team know a lot more than what's become publicly available here. what i -- you know, i look at this evidence a little bit more strongly than jonathan does. i think evidence that the president's personal lawyer dangled pardons in front of two key witnesses potentially against the president, that's evidence any prosecutor would be proud to have in a courtroom. it's possible that the president could take an action that's legal on the one hand, issuing a pardon, but could do it for

michael flynn, the former national security adviser, has pled guilty. once again, our legal analyst michael zeldin is with us, our chief political analyst gloria borger. also joining us on the phone is joe becker, breaking the story for "the new york times." give us the made head line. what have you guys learned? >> well, we know that a lawyer, as you said, a lawyer for mr. trump talked about pardons, broached the idea of pardons both michael flynn and paul manafort. this happened as the special counsel's investigation was really heating up. especially as it relates to mr. flynn. these discussions took place over the summer at a time when the grand jury was hearing evidence against mr. flynn on a range of potential crimes. of course, mr. flynn ended up cutting a deal with the prosecutor. so one question is, you know, would this prevent him from cutting a deal and telling the special it would be very, very unusual for mr. dowd to do something like this and freelance it. but we know that mr. trump himself, you know, raised the idea of pardons. so, you kno

garrett tenney brought up the point of michael flynn the former national security advisor. he pleaded guilty to a crime of lying to the fbi. mccabe is being accused of lying to the fbi. what's good for the goose is good for the gander. should he face some kind of charges or disciplinary procedures other than just losing his pension? >> you have to leave that one to the prosecutors at the department of justice. but, there are many times. leland: it doesn't seem that fair though, does it? >> there are times when a lie is not the equivalent of a crime. and fbi loses his livelihood for telling a lie under any circumstances. it may not rise to a crime and i have to leave that one to the prosecutor. leland: a lot more will come out, probably, once we get a chance to read through the inspector general report michael horowitz who we heard about before. even democrats really are holding back on this one. they are not defending mccabe. they say we want to read the report. we will see what it has to say. how broad could the implications be here. if mccabe's word, his bond as an fbi ag

was the trump legal team trying to keep michael flynn and paul manafort from cooperating in the russia probe? >>> the date is set for leaders of north korea and south korea to meet. welcome to "early start." i'm michelle kosinski. >> great to have you here, my friend. i'm dave briggs. it is thursday, march 29th. you know dr. ronnie saying he has incredibly good genes. we have david shulkin out as secretary. in this case, we are told chief of staff john kelly gave shulkin the head's up on the phone. he said questions about the travel have been distractions getting in the way. the president campaigned hard on veterans. >> the big surprise was not shulkin's ouster which was rumored for weeks, but who is nominated to replace him. his personal physician. dr. ronnie jackson. unsurprisingly the performance on tv had to do with the selection. dr. jackson's white house briefing said the president's health played a part in his decision. here is a look back. >> no indication he has any cognitive issues. the president is sharp and ar articulate. look at his

we know the president criticized the investigation into michael flynn. he thinks it is weak and flimsy and praised paul manafort at length calling hmm a good man. we know the president has not fully distanced himself from either one of these figures. whether he made the observations or sanctioned them, we don't know. >> page, i'll play you some sound i'm open cessobsessed ove last fall. this is after the first indictment was issued, the lawyer kevin downing. listen first thing he said. >> i think you all saw today that president donald trump was correct, there is no evidence that mr. manafort or the trump campaign colluded with the russian government. >> it just struck me as interesting last fall that the very first line of defense that he had was for president trump, not his own client, paul manafort. i'm wondering, if perhaps now we have an explanation, maybe he was trying to curry favor with the president. >> john, i think that's absolutely correct. it makes no sense for manafort's lawyer not to be discussing the merits of their defense. these are ver

michael flynn arguably has a much more extensive exposure. so when you have the mueller team and investigators trying to figure out what is your intent, they need information. they need to know that people will be forthright and truthful. so it will rely on that. otherwise it would be speculation having to rely on what john dowd has said. he never had these conversations. he never would have intended do so. you can also go by circumstantial evidence to show the context that makes the intent apparent. >> john dowd may be in more jeopardy herepreside president's ronnicly. could dude be brought in? because if you are breaking the law, that gets beyond privilege. >> i think that he will be brought in because sometimes the prosecutor will capitalize on the fact that there may be bad blood. why did john dowd really resign? was there something that he saw that was not appropriate, will he be cooperating or at least in terms of trying to be agreeable with information. remember he was the point person. but remember the fact that the president has the

and we'll see what michael flynn wants to do. but right now as far as we know, remember we are usually behind things, things are happening behind the doors we don't know about. but stars we know, that agreement between michael flynn and robert mueller still exists. >> i want to get to a side issue. peter strzok and lisa page are still working at the fbi. they were involved in all these manipulations to keep trump out of the white house. they were pushing very strongly the trump dossier, the piece of garbage. it is clear now that even the people involved in creating the dossier didn't believe a lot of the stuff that was tonight. we are now getting information that mr. steele who wrote the thing out didn't believe some of the most of salacious things that were in the trump dossier. >> there is a new book out by two of the journalists who were briefed by christopher steele, two of those journalists have written a book, and as far as we know that steele continues to maintain what he calls the broad assertions of his dossier are corre

. >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see. >> reporter: but dowd denies he ever discussed pardons with lawyers for flynn or manafort, saying, "there were no discussions, period. as far as i know, no discussions." dowd resigned just last week, frustrated the president wasn't taking his advice. now, president trump facing another legal headache. >> he's like, you're smart, beautiful and a woman to be reckoned with. i like you. i like you. >> reporter: the lawyer for porn star stormy daniels asking a federal judge in california for permission to depose the president and his attorney, michael cohen. he says there is precedent. former president bill clinton was forced to tape a video deposition in the paula jones civil case while he was still in office. this white house asked if president trump would sit down for the deposition? >> i'm not going to get into a hypothetical question. >> reporter: all the while, president trump still silent, no public appearances for the fifth day. >> a lot to pour t

john dowd who was the president's attorney was floating the idea of pardoning michael flynn or paul manafort. what do you make of that potential that happened last year? >> it's not surprising, but also this is the other part of the mueller investigation, which is obstruction. and when you look at that, how do we normally go about obstruction case to build it? was there evidence that was tampered, suppressed or omitted? were there witnesses that were pressured or offered quid pro quo. a pardon could be a measure and so you start to dig into that. when was this brought up, what were the discussions maybe with manafort and i think flynn was the other one noted in there. and how might have that have been used as bait to keep them from really working with the mueller team? if that's the case, if that's what they were considering, that could be very substantive to an obstruction case. >> last question, the time we have left, we haven't yet talked about the new attorney who has joined the trump legal team who is a medieval studies ph.d. in atlanta. doesn't have a background like the rest of the le

the firings of james comey and nsa's michael flynn. national security adviser michael flynn. does it seem like the walls could be closing in on this president? is that why he's -- >> well, i mean, he knows more about what they want than we know, and mueller knows more about what he's after than he knows, so it's hard to say, the one thing that i think is interesting is people -- i saw allen dershowitz earlier on anderson's show saying that he thinks the special council is overstepping his bounds and so on. it seems to me that mueller's being careful and he's examining those areas that relate to russia. that i find interesting, of course he's going to look at the firing of comey and the departure of flynn. i'm sure flynn now having turned witness is telling him exactly what trump knew about flynn's activities. nothing on that list do i find particularly surprising. >> i can't wait to see the axe files. you talk to charles barkley? >> yes, charles barkley a week from thursday. >>> white house insiders aren't the only ones who continue showing up. what stormy daniels is tweeting

. >> i don't want to talk about pardoning michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. >> they had asked about conversations at the white house about pardons. >> the president has the authority to pardon individuals but it hasn't been discussed. >> the question hinges on whether dangling includes obstruction. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. this is your "new day". it's thursday, march 29th, 6:00 in new york. here's our starting line. president trump firing his embattled v.a. secretary and tapping his white house doctor to replace him. the president insists dr. jackson is highly trained and qualified. but he has no real management experience. if confirmed, jackson will run the federal government's second largest department with hundreds of thousands of employees. well over 300,000. and it is plagued by in efficiencies. "new york times" reports that former lawyer john dowd may have floated the idea of pardoning michael flynn and paul manafort as special

the discussions happened before michael flynn copped a plea and paul manafort was charged. our jeff z

in december, the president was asked about pardoning michael flynn. >> about michael flynn, would you consider a pardon for michael flynn? >> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. >> joining us now, harry lit man, a professor at the university of california. jill wine-banks, and john hileman. jill wine-banks, i want to go to you first on this issue of what was john dowd up to? the "new york times" reporting on the face of it, indicates a possible obstruction of justice case involving john dowd possibly. >> it absolutely does. now we have to keep in mind that he denies that it happened. they had multiple sources that they that it did. and if he was offering a pardon in exchange for influencing the testimony, that's clearly a part of obstruction. it's exactly what happened during watergate when they talked about pardons. when they offered hush money to keep quiet. now we have hush money paid to porn stars, as you just designated them. so it could be that he is in very deep trouble right now, john dowd. >> harry litman, give me your reading leg

president all trumped administration mass to replace michael flynn who was fired fourteen months ago the retired general was the second secure. adviser to the u.s. president trumpet mcmaster both say the decision was mutual will be replaced by john bolton who has advised several republican presidents he's been a stern advocate for the use of military force against iran and north korea and it's become almost customary the trump makes decisions and announcements like this on twitter so this is what he tweeted i am pleased to announce that effective ninth of april john bolton will be my new national security advisor and i'm very grateful for the service of general h.r. being master who had an outstanding job i'm always remain my friend carefully how it has more now h.r. been masters time with the trump administration. general h.r. mcmaster will become the national security adviser he arrived at a tumultuous time just a month into his presidency trump had fired national security advisor michael flynn for lying to the vice president over his conversations with the russians it is both dipl

"the new york times" is reporting a presidential lawyer floated the idea of pardoning michael flynn and paul manafort last year, as the special counsel was closing in on those high-level former trump campaign aides. this hour, i'll get reaction from senate judiciary committee member, chris coons, along with our correspondents and analysts. first, let's go to our chief white house correspondent, jim acosta. jim, it's official now, the va secretary shulkin, fired. >> reporter: that's right, wolf. it's as if the president had this in his back pocket, waiting to unveil it on the american people, announcing that he is replacing his va secretary, david shulkin, with the white house physician, dr. ronny jackson. dr. jackson, you'll recall, made a name for himself, you might say, by declaring the president to be in excellent health. but i'm told by a white house official that some of these questions about david shulkin, ethical questions over at the va were becoming too big of a distraction for him to carry out the president's agenda when it comes to reforming care for our nation's veterans.

that's not the choice that was given to michael flynn. michael flynn, you recall, was charged with false statements, even though comey's investigators reportedly believe that flynn didn't intend to mislead them. that's not apparently the conclusion of the inspector general with regard to mccabe. >> martha: it was such a great point because michael flynn is still waiting for his sentence. i think the final chapter of the michael flynn story perhaps is not written yet. when you go back and you take a look at what andrew mccabe did, misleading the investigators according to these reports, about leaking to the media and also about this laptop that his office had uncovered, which belonged to huma abedin, hillary clinton's very close associate and her then husband anthony weiner and he waited three weeks during the heat of the election to sort of pass that information up the chain of command, right? >> that's particularly odd. you have one of the highest profile investigations in the department of justice, they give this laptop which is a seism

he has michael flynn. and he also understands that michael flynn touches on lots of other issues. they were discussing sanctions. and sanctions is thought somehow to be what undergirds the relationship between trump and the russians. you help me with my election, i will relieve sanctions. it's theory, speculation. but all of the topics are start points for a broader investigation. i agree completely with rinatto, that the high-level topics are the tip of the iceberg of what mueller will speak to trump about. which is why we saw such an eruption from the president when he he was told this is the breadth of what mueller wants to talk about to start when mueller was -- you know when trump rather was being told that mueller's investigation was winding down, it would be over quickly, it was a short interview to take place, i think that he was blind-sided a bit by the breadth of what mueller is asking. that's why we saw the weekend tirade. >> and trump insisted loudly and often that there was no collusion between his campaign and the russians. could he be right. >> what this suggests to

>> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see the. >> msnbc national security contributor michael schmidt is one of the reporter who's broke the story for the "new york times." first, let's talk about the timing and the context under which these discussions happened. >> so this happened last summer. this was at a time that mueller was building his cases against manafort and flynn. this was when they were trying to figure out what evidence the government had. and there was concern within the president's circle about what cooperation from these two would look like. particularly by flynn who had been around for the entire campaign and obviously for the first three weeks in the white house before he was fired. >> okay. but so the context is that the cases are building. there's a worry i guess that they're going to talk. and dowd is talking to flynn's lawyers and manafort's lawyers individually and sort of floating the idea what if the president were to pardon you? >> dowd had the lead in dealing with both of these lawyers.

i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. >> we'll see what happens, obviously not a no. a lawyer at the center of this story has been in the news for leaving trump's team, john dowd. i want to bring you more context tonight you might have not have seen anywhere else. he has a broad power of pardons. before he joined trump's team, he represented arizona governor against fraud. here is how that case ended. >> just before leaving office today, bill clinton made dramatic use of his power to pardon. some surprising pardons today too, for patty hearst, kidnapped by a radical group in the 1970s, and a former republican governor aft being prosecuted for bank fraud. >> in that special report, we just showed you from back in the day, it was a pre-emptive pardon he secured in a politically hot case, a rare case of a president pardoning someone before any conviction. now tonight i can tell you that lawyer is off trump's team and his conversations about potential pardons, that's what's leaking tonight. i'm joined

michael flynn close a plea deal. and he's fighting these very serious charges in court. and a roll of the dice for manafort nelson thinks the government has overstated their case. >> or he thinks maybe he will be pardoned. that could also be part of it. let's look at the big picture. we know that president trump has presided over a cover-up of all things russian for more than a year now. the question is, is it a nixon cover-up? and these developments today make it look more and more definitive that it probably is a criminal cover-up by the standards of most legal experts. we don't know that for sure. but we're tying together both the question of the president's actions in relation to promising things that will in fact impede and instruct mueller's investigation, and also, we are seeing in the gates developments, which also affect manafort because they were business partners, gates and manafort, and russian intelligence agent alleged worked for both manafort and gates. and we're beginning to see the outlines, perhaps, of a real, quote, collusion case with the trump campai

and the firing of national security adviser michael flynn. so those are the ones that -- so those are what they're talking about now. so his interests go beyond those four topics though. don't you think it goes beyond that? it goes beyond just simple collusion, i would think. that's why i asked john about is in an obstruction case. so this is not ending anytime soon. >> it's sprawling. just think of all the buckets here. number one, gets to the basic issue of collusion. two and three on your list get to more of the obstruction of justice. four, i think, is one that's gotten a little bit forgotten in the recent months of a lot of news, is this flynn case and whether mueller is looking into a logan act violation. remember the logan act? we were talking about that. you go back and you read the filings in the flynn case. remember, he admitted to lying to the fbi. there's some interesting clues in there. he talks about a very senior official in the transition who knew about what the conversations he was having with the russian ambassador. mueller

pete: where is that same argument for michael flynn. rachel: michael flynn didn't have those defenders in the media. email from renee mccabe deserved to be fired. about time someone in the swamp has accountability. all the mainstream media going nuts blaming president trump. pete: email from burt, is he said this is what happens when the elites, the political class believe they are immune to those laws by which the rest of us must abide. this decision is necessary if we are truly a nation of laws. bert. amen. ed: we want to know what you think about this. was this fair? andrew mccabe is saying that the president is trying to destroy his credibility as a witness before the mullen probe. is that true or is it andrew mccabe destroying his own credibility with his actions as a deputy fbi director? rachel: is this just a draining of the swamp that was promised in the election? pete: let us know. what is the most important story of the day? is this story or saint patrick's day or university baltimore county beating uva in the first round of t

when michael flynn end up getting in trouble. the underlying activity is the obama administration was trying to get a security crown ask kril resolution passed through the u.n. to cleanse judeo-christian jerusalem. michael flynn was talking to these other countries advocating for them to do the right thing not just for america, but for our allies in israel. lou: the untell jones community at large is corrupt. and i think we agree on this, and i commend you for calling for a special counsel even though i'm not sure that's progress in this matter. to look into that corruption and malfeasance. congressman lee zeldin, thank you for leading on these issues. we appreciate you being with us tonight. president trump standing firm on tariffs to help american workers keep their jobs. president trump: we are not backing down. mexico -- we had a very bad deal with mexico and canada. for many years nafta has brand-new a disaster. lou: mueller's phoney probe expand together middle east despite no evidence of collusion. we'll pam anyone the mue