still with a, kevin guinness. george. and luke. kevin, i want to begin with you. they call out with pimco. talk about how they turned caution defensive in one of the big funds. my question is i hear this a lot about turning cautions and defensive. then i reconcile that with what is done really well. fixed income. how do you make sense of that? >> i think whatever they say about caution in -- and defensive is how is happening in the current market. especially with the long end of the curve. investors are willing to take a lot more credit risk. it has been a yield play for the last two years anyway. you offer me a twitter 5% for two years in turkey. the reason yous want get cautious and defensive. convertibles doing really well. triple c doing pretty well. relative to what investment. it is now the time to get defensive and go elsewhere. and some money. >> yes. but really slowly. we have been selling rallies rather than buying beds. the process is going to continue doing it. a lot of the trades at works the last 10 years are running out of steam. the long financials