judy: lisa, what does this tell us? lisa: that was in eye-popping soundbite. when i talked to republicans like mark meadows, he said overall, i think it was a snooze fe. democrats didn't gain any ground except i said, what about soundbite where you had an acting ambassador to ukraine saying it seems the policy ois the presidenrong? mark meadows had to admit this wasomewhere democrats seemed to land a punch. it is impornt because it is a contrast with what nick pointed out. there is a fight over the detail here. democrats and republicans are making detailed arguments abt what we kn about what the president did or didn't do. on the other hand, it gordon sondland and swallow realized the bigger battle is for the american public. swallow well -- swalwell was saying, was this wrong? being able to get an acting ambassador to say that about a president h serving is very rare and everyone felt it. it went beyond the mechanics o what is an impeachable offense and was aimed at this president and his t policies, ay good or bad? democrats and republicans both mefelt that