, a record provided by ambassador volker. ambassador sondland said a call between president trump and president zelensky would take place soon. ambassador volker said is that what was most important is for zelensky to say that he will help investigation and address any specific personnel issues, if there are any. on the next day, july 20th, i had a phone conversation with ambassador sondland while he was on a train from paris to london. ambassador sondland told me that he had recommended to president zelensky that he used the phrase, i will leave no stone unturned, with regard to investigations when president zelensky spoke with president trump. also on july 20th. i had a conversation with alexander doneuk. president zelensky's national security adviser who emphasized he did not want to be used as an instrument in a u.s. re-election campaign. the next day i texted both ambassadors volker and sondland about president zelensky's concern. on july 25th, president trump and president zelensky had the long-awaited phone conversatio

we ask for ambassador volker and mr. morrison to be our witnesses, we also see why chairman schiff wanted to put them in the afternoon we also see why, from the -- remember, ambassador volker was the first witness that we deposed, and we called for the release of his transcript. getting that out, because he's the definitive source on this. i think you saw him tell this story. the one thing i thought, even telling the ukrainians when they learned that the aid had been held, they said don't worry about it, and that's exactly what happened. it got worked out without any promise, start of any type of investigations. this is a very good day for the truth, and for the president of the united states. a very good day for the country, but the sad thing, as i said in the hearing, these two individuals are no longer working in our government, because they are the kind of public servants that he would appreciate. >> some of the important facts to recap, ambassador volker says that president zelensky doesn't know there's a hold on ai

>> that's correct. >> and volker was handling, ambassador volker, was he the primary -- >> volker, perry and others. >> okay. ambassador volker, you testified he's a professional diplomat, correct? >> yes he is. >> and you had a great relationship with him? >> i do. >> you said he was a very smart guy? >> yes. >> ambassador yovanovitch said he's a brilliant diplomat? >> he's pretty smart. >> you stated he's one of those people i'd hand my wallet to? >> i would. >> and so did you hear his testimony yesterday? >> i did not. >> okay. because he didn't -- >> i was busy getting ready for you. >> he didn't have any -- he didn't have any evidence of any of these preconditions. and he was the one most engaged with the ukrainians, wasn't he? >> yes. >> okay. you testified, you know, this was his full-time job, although he was doing it for free. >> he was the special envoy. >> you testified you came in and out of the events, correct? >> that was correct. >> okay. all right. your deposition, we asked you about your communications with the president. and we asked you whether there were so many that

volker's notes. i know the desire to have the 2016 election dnc server and burisma were already being discussed by then. again, i had no direct contact with mr. giuliani on july 10th but through ambassador volker and i probably mentioned that this needs to happen in order to move the process forward. that seemed to be the conventional wisdom at the time. i don't recall any abrupt ending of the meeting or people storming out or anything like that. that would have been very memorable if someone had stormed out of a meeting based on something i said. >> nobody accused you of that point in time being involved with some sort of drug deal? >> no. >> did dr. hill ever relate to you her concerns about you being involved in a drug deal? >> never. >> you were surprised when testimony came out that there was a drug deal going on? >> i was shocked. >> in fact, after the meeting you went out and took a picture, right? >> yeah. ambassador bolton, his assistant indicated he was out of time. that he needed -- he had

ambassador volker, mr. morrison, good to see you again. i appreciate your service to your question and your service in government. our country is safer today because of the work of both of you men. i want you to know that during all the testimony that we've had, no one has ever alleged that either of you have done anything inappropriate or improper. and everybody has spoken of both of you as having a high level of professionalism and a high degree of ethical standards. ambassador volker, i appreciated in your opening statement your comments of your work to focus on russia as an invasion of ukraine and an occupation and your work on legal defensive arms. that would include the javelins, would it not, ambassador volker? >> yes, that's right. >> and that made a big difference to ukraine? >> a very big difference. >> tell us about your military service. >> mr. turner, i'm a u.s. naval reserve officer. i'm an intelligence officer. >> and where did you go to law school? >> george washington university. >> now, gentlemen, there's been a lot of ta

through ambassador volker. i probably mention that this needs to happen in order to move the process forward that seemed to be. the conventional wisdom of that. i don't recall any abrupt ending of the meeting or people storming out or anything like that that would have been very memorable us. someone that stormed out of the meeting based on something i said ok nobody accused your that point i'm of being involved with s relate to you her concerns about you being involved in a drug deal never. so you're surprised when testimony. urged that she thought there was a drug deal. and in fact after the meeting you went out. you took a picture right. ambassador bolton. are his assistant indicated that he was out of times that he needed yet another meeting to attend an. we all walked out of the white house everyone was smiling everyone was happy and we took a picture on the line on a nice sunny day. and they did you ever tired of the word room. he asked to use the word to continue the conversation in the real subject that

a superb envoy kurt volker. he quit before testifying's showing trump was pushing to conduct political investigations. for this up to phil moting ima. talk to me about key bits of the volker testimony? >> reporter: most interesting about his testimony the window it provides into both on the u.s. side and on the ukraine side. how rudy giuliani rose to the point he did. where he became essentially the focal point of ukraine policy. not from official or regular channels but ukrainians thinking they needed to talk to kurt volker to get anything to the president to lock in a visit to the white house with the president and how to move forward on funding. one piece republicans telegraphed over the course of the last couple of weeks since his testimony say makes clear the president didn't do anything wrong in regards to a quid pro quo. kurt volker in his testimony says, to my knowledge the news about a hold on security a assistance did not get into ukraine circles until the end of august. by that time we dropped the ide

volker, perry, bolton and i strongly recommend. mr. morrison acknowledged and said, thank you and specifically noted that he was tracking these issues. again, there was no secret regarding moving forward and the discussion of investigations. moreover, i have reviewed other state department documents, some of which are not currently in the public domain, detailing mr. giuliani's efforts. for example, on july 10th, the very same day that ambassador volker, secretary perry and i were meeting with the ukraine officials in washington, ambassador taylor received a communication that mr. giuliani was still talking with ukrainian prosecutor lasenko in whatsapp messages with ambassador volker and i, ambassador taylor wrote to us as follows, just had a meeting with andre and vadim, referring to ukraine foreign minister. taylor said the ukrainians were, quote, very concerned about what letsenko told them. according to r.g., meaning rudy giuliani, the meeting will not happen. volker responded good grief, please tell the dean to let the u.s. govern

this was an exchange with ambassador taylor and ambassador volker ambassador volker. ambassador volker is saying don't let other people speak for the u.s. government. that was his point. >> but if rudy is following the directions and he saying what he saying here, and you're also following directions, right, and you're saying it's a condition, who's giving you the instructions to say what you're saying? >> that's why we thought it was problematic to work with mr. giuliani. >> exactly. who did you work with to say the things you said? did you have conversations with the chief of staff, secretary pompeo to say what you're saying? >> are you talking about in the july 10 meeting? yes, with ambassador volker because of that point, ambassador volker was the one in touch with mr. giuliani, not me. >> you had no direct conversations with mr. mulvaney about this or secretary pompeo to make this condition statement? >> only the text and emails i have already reviewed. >> thank you. my time is up. >> ms. stefanik. >> thank you, and mr. sondland, for your service and your recogni

volker, thank you. but for the fact that you as a private citizen with your own personal phone and text messages with mr. all-janne and mr. sondland and mayak and whomever else, but for those text messages we have been putting up on the screen all day, we would have nothing. nothing. and this coverup would be complete. that's something we should think about. now, on july 19, you had breakfast with rudy all-janne at the trump hotel, correct? >> correct. ms. speier: in that conversation at one point he brought up mr. lute sen. coe and you said whatever mr. lutsenko is saying is not correct is that right? >> yes. ms. speier: then he brought up mr. biden. i'm going to quote here, i've .nown him for a long time all-janne, simply not credible to me. biden would be influenced by concerns for his son or money or anything like that. we've had discussions about burisma and biden and the crowd strike server. you in that conversation with mr. all-janne debunked all of that. at that at time, breakfast, who else was

tim morrison pap and culling volker. i appreciate the minority request for the two important witnesses a as well as undersecretary of state david hale from whom we hear tomorrow. as we heard from other witnesses when joe biden was considering whether to enter the raise for the presidency in 2020 the president's personal lawyer rudy giuliani began a campaign to weaken vice president bidden's- vice president vice president's candidacy by pushing ukraine to investigate him and his son. to clear away any obstacle to the scheme day are skas after the new ukrainian president was elected trump ordered the recall of marie yovanovitch the american ambassador in kyiv who was found known for pushing anti-corruption efforts. he cancelled vice president pence's participation in the inauguration of president zlenky and sent a delegation with rick perry. they encourage new interaction was the new ukrainian administration. hopes that tlufrp would agree to the new ukrainian president were diminished when trump pushed back. according to v

>> that's correct. >> with ambassador volker because at that point, ambassador volker was the one in touch with mr. giuliani, not me. >> but you had not direct conversations with mr. mulvaney about this or secretary pompeo to make this conditioned statement? >> only the texts and emails that i've already reviewed. >> thank you. my time is up. >> thank you, ambassador sondland for your service and i want to thank you for your recognition in your opening statement of your hard working staff at the u.s. mission to the eu. you testified that you never received any direct confirmation or specific investigation as to why there was a hold on aid. >> that's correct. >> and in fact you testified, quote, president trump never told me directly that the aid was conditioned on the investigations, end quote. >> that's correct. >> you said, quote, never heard those words from the president, correct? >> correct. >> instead you testified that in your september 9th call with president trump, the president said, quote, no quid pro quo. i want nothing. i want nothing. i want president zelensky to do the

gordon sondland and ambassador kurt volker. they then briefed president trump on their encouraging first interactions with the new ukrainian administration. hopes that trump would agree to an early meeting with ukrainian president were soon diminished, however, when trump pushed back. according to volker, he just didn't believe it. he was skeptical and he also said i hear he's got some terrible people around here. president trump also told them they believe that ukraine tried to take them down. he told the three amigos talk to rudy. and they did. one of those interactions took place a week before the july 25th phone call between trump and zelensky and ambassador volker had breakfast with rudy giuliani at the trump hotel. volker testified that he pushed back on giuliani's accusation against joe biden. on july 22nd, just days before trump would talk to him, he had a telephone conference, a top advisor to the ukrainian president so that he could be introduced. on july 25th, the same day as a call between president trump and zelens

volker -- thank you. but for the fact you as a private citizen with your own personal phone and your text messages with mr. giuliani and mr. sondland and whoever else, but for those text messages that we've been putting up on the screen all day, we would have nothing, nothing. and this cover-up would be complete. that's something we should think about. now, on july 19th you have breakfast with rudy giuliani at the trump hotel, correct? >> that's correct. >> and in that conversation at one point he brought up mr. and you said whatever he's saying is not correct. >> yes. >> and then you brought up mr. biden and i'm going to quote you here, i've known him for a long time, he's a person of integrity. to giuliani, simply not credible to me. joe biden would be influenced in his duties as vice president by money or things for his son or anything like that. now, we've had many discussions over the last few days about these investigations into burisma and biden and the 2016 crowd strike server. and you in that con

i'm sorry, ambassador volker? >> yes. >> the rule of law central to our democracy. >> that's so true. we had some discussions and challenge from the other side, that the president has the authority in foreign policy to do what he likes. in fact, he does. a recent president by president trump to take our troops out of syria and allow the turkish forces to go in literally meant that some kurdish families went to bed saturday night and look up sunday morning, pack their kids and fled for their lives. a lot of people, including both sides of the aisle disagreed with that. the president has the authority to do it. impulsive asset has been about threatening our national security. we are not talking about that here. master volker, i listened to your testimony and i take it and thank you for making efforts to try to advance what had been a bipartisan party, to help ukraine get rid of corruption, help resist russian aggression. but you came to learn was that there was a sidebar ukraine policy with giuliani as an advocate,

volker, perry, bolton and i strongly recommend. mr. morrison acknowledged and said thank you and specifically noted that he was tracking these issues. again, there was no secret regarding moving forward and the discussion of investigations. moreover, i've reviewed other state department documents, some of which are not currently in the public domain, detailing mr. giuliani's efforts. for example, on july 10th, the very same day that ambassador volker, secretary perry and i were meeting with the ukraine officials in washington, ambassador taylor received a communication that mr. giuliani was still talking with ukrainian prosecut prosecutor. ambassador taylor wrote to us as follows, just had a meeting, referring to the ukraine foreign minister. taylor said the ukrainians were, quote, very concerned about what let senk oh told them, according to giuliani, the zelensky/potus meeting will not happen. volker responded, good grief, please tell the dean to let the official u.s. representatives speak for the u.s. lutsenko has its own self-inter

because volker says, and if he was on all your phone calls, volker says that never happened. >> no. i did have a few conversations. i don't recall how many, because i don't have the records. with mr. giuliani directly when mr. volker wasn't available. >> and did mr. giuliani -- go ahead. >> i don't believe i testified that mr. giuliani told me that aid was tied. >> oh, i think -- see, this is part of the problem, ambassador sondlandd you have said s, i listened to you today as a lot of people and not only are your answers somewhat circular, frequently, you've contradicted emails that you have put up there, kurt volker walked us different understand ing of wha you're saying than what you're saying you were saying so i'm a little confused as to how everyone's in the loop because there -- if giuliani didn't give you an express statement then it can't be that you believe this from giuliani. now let me tell you right now. is donald trump your friend? >> no, we're not friends. we have a -- >> do you like the president? >> yes. >> okay. >> well, you know, after you testified, chairman schi

>> that's correct. >> and volker was handling, ambassador volker, was he the primary -- >> volker, perry and others. >> okay. ambassador volker, you testified he's a professional diplomat, correct? >> yes he is. >> and you had a great relationship with him? >> i do. >> you said he was a very smart guy? >> yes. >> ambassador yovanovitch said he's a brilliant diplomat? >> he's pretty smart. >> you stated he's one of those people i'd hand my wallet to? >> i would. >> and so did you hear his testimony yesterday? >> i did not. >> okay. because he didn't -- >> i was busy getting ready for you. >> he didn't have any -- he didn't have any evidence of any of these preconditions. and he was the one most engaged with the ukrainians, wasn't he? >> yes. >> okay. you testified, you know, this was his full-time job, although he was doing it for free. >> he was the special envoy. >> you testified you came in and out of the events, correct? >> that was correct. >> okay. all right. your deposition, we asked you about your communications with the president. and we asked you whether there were so many that

you left a message for kurt volker. kurt volker sent this text message to andre yermak to president zelensky and president trump had a phone call where plt zelensky spoke similar to this text message, right? >> right. >> you agree the message is that president zelensky needs to convince trump that he will do the investigations in order to nail down the tate for a visit to washington, d.c., is that correct? >> that's correct. >> now, i'm going to move ahead in time to the end of august and early september, when you came to believe, i believe as you testified, that it wasn't just the white house meeting that was contingent on the announcement of these investigations, that the president wanted but security assistance as well. you testified that in the absence of any credible explanation for the hold on security assistance, you came to the conclusion that, like the white house visit, the aide was conditioned on the investigation that president trump wanted. is that what you said in your opening statement? >> it is. >> so le

ambassador volker, mr. morrison, good to see you again. i appreciate your service to your country and your service in government. our country is safer today because of the work of both of you men. i want you to know during all of the testimony we've had, no one has alleged that either of you have done anything inappropriate or improper. and everyone has spoken of both of you as having high level professionalism and high degree of ethical standards. ambassador volker, i appreciated your comments of work to focus on russia as invasion of ukraine and occupation and work on legal defense of arms, including the javelins, would it not, ambassador volker? >> yes, sir. >> that made a big difference to the ukraine? >> very big difference. >> mr. morrison, tell us about your military service. >> mr. turner, i'm a u.s. naval reserve officer. i am an intelligence officer. >> where did you go to law school? >> george washington university. >> now, gentlemen, there's been a lot of talk about a lot of people, we have to pick up the pace, these are shorts

on july 19th in a whatsapp message between ambassador taylor, ambassador volker and me, ambassador volker stated, had breakfast with rudy this morning. that's ambassador volker and rudy giuliani. teeing up call with yermak monday. that's senior adviser andriy yerm yermak. must have helped. most important is for zelensky to say that he will help investigation, and address any specific personnel issues if there are any. on august 10th, the next day, mr. yermak texted me. once we have a date, which is a date for the white house meeting, we will call for a press briefing, announcing upcoming visit and outlining vision for the reboot of the u.s./ukraine relationship including among other things, burisma and election meddling in investigations. this is from mr. yermak to me. the following day, august 11th, and this is critical. i sent an email to counselor brechbuhl and lisa kenna. lisa kenna was frequently used as the pathway to secretary pompeo as sometimes he preferred to receive his emails through her. she would print them out and put them in front of him. with the subject ukraine, i wrote,

tim morrison pap and culling volker. i appreciate the minority request for the two important witnesses a as well as undersecretary of state david hale from whom we hear tomorrow. as we heard from other witnesses when joe biden was considering whether to enter the raise for the presidency in 2020 the president's personal lawyer rudy giuliani began a campaign to weaken vice president bidden's- vice president vice president's candidacy by pushing ukraine to investigate him and his son. to clear away any obstacle to the scheme day are skas after the new ukrainian president was elected trump ordered the recall of marie yovanovitch the american ambassador in kyiv who was found known for pushing anti-corruption efforts. he cancelled vice president pence's participation in the inauguration of president zlenky and sent a delegation with rick perry. they encourage new interaction was the new ukrainian administration. hopes that tlufrp would agree to the new ukrainian president were diminished when trump pushed back. according to v

>> that's correct. >> and volker was handling, ambassador volker, was -- >> volker, perry and others. >> okay. ambassador volker, you testified he's a professional diplomat, correct? >> yes, he is. >> and you said you had a great relationship with him? >> i do yes. >> very smart guy? >> yes. >> ambassador yovanovitch said he's a brilliant diplomat, in fact. do you agree with that? >> he's pretty smart. >> you stated that he's one of those people i would hand my wallet to? >> i would. >> and so did you hear his testimony yesterday? >> i did not. >> okay. because he -- >> i was busy getting ready for you. >> he didn't have any evidence of any of these preconditions. and he was the one most engaged with the ukrainians, wasn't he? >> yes. >> i mean you testified this was his full-time job, although he was doing it for free. >> he was the special envoy. >> you testified you came in and out of the events, correct? >> that's correct. >> okay. >> your deposition we asked you about your communications with the president. and we asked you whether there were so many that it would be impossible t

volker, thank you. you as a private citizen with your own personal phone and your text messages with mr. giuliani and mr. sondland and mr. mayak and whomever else, but for those text messages that we've been putting up on the screen all day we would have nothing. nothing. and this cover-up would be complete. that's something we should think about. now on july 19th you had breakfast with rudy giuliani at the trump hotel, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> in that conversation at one point he brought up mr. lutsenko and you said whateverly brought up is not credible, is that correct? >> yes. >> i'm going to quote you here. i've known him for a long time. he's a person of integrity to giuliani. simply not credible to me. joe biden would be influenced in his duties as vice president by money or things for a son or anything like that. we've had many discussions over the last few days about these investigations into burisma and biden and the 2016 crowd strike server and you in that conversation with mr. g

hill informed me that ambassador volker met with mr. giuliani to discuss ukraine. this caught me by surprise. the next day i asked ambassador volker about that meeting but received no response. i began to sense that these two separate decision making channels, the regular and the irregular were separate and at odds. later that day, i received text messages on a three-way whatsapp text conversation conversation with ambassadors sondland and volker. ambassador sondland said a call between president trump and president zelensky would take place soon. ambassador volker said what was most important is for zelensky to say that he will help investigation and address any specific personnel issues if there are any. on the next day, july 20th, i had a phone conversation with ambassador sondland while he was on a train from paris to london. ambassador sondland told me he recommended to president zelensky that he use the phrase, i will leave no stone unturned with regard to investigations when president trump spoke with president trump. also on july 20th, i had a phone convers

volker, i did not. question, called them earlier yet that's what president trump wanted zelensky to commit to investigating before he could get volker. right. question, a visit to the white house. cnn's lauren fox with me now with more on what she is gleaning from these transcripts. lauren, what's yujumping out at ought? >> one talking point we're hearing from republicans in the last moments the fact in this closed door deposition volker told them he wasn't aware of a quid pro quo. when pressed, "you asked what conversations did i have about a quid pro quo." "none, because i didn't know there was a quid pro quo." this isn't all good news for republicans. as pointed out. volker was very concerned about that july 25th phone call and surprised and troubled that the president was trying to push for investigations into his political rivals that as you read he didn't believe there was any have a lvalidity to those a and also said he was concerned about rudy giuliani's role and what it would do to the u.s. rel

special representative to ukraine, kurt volker. they briefed president trump on their encouraging first interactions with the ukrainian administration. they urged the president to meet with zelensky, but the president's reaction was decidedly hostile. the president's order was clear, however. talk with rudy. during this meeting, ambassador sondland first became aware of what giuliani and the president were really interested in. this whole thing was sort of a continu continu continuum, he testified at his deposition starting at the may 23rd meeting, ending up at the end of the line when the transcript of the call came out. it was a continuum he would explain that became more insidious over time. the three amigos were disappointed with trump's directive to engage giuliani, but vowed to press ahead. ambassador sondland testified, we could abandon the goal of the white house aiding from president zelensky, which the group deemed crucial for u.s./ukrainian relations, or we could do as president trump directed and talk to mr. giuliani to

from ambassador volker. so we had already begun those discussions i believe with the ukrainians prior to august 1st, so everything was being funneled through others including mr. volker. >> but you testified that mr. giuliani was expressing the desires of the president, correct? >> that's our understanding, yes. >> how did you know that? who told you? >> well, when the president says talk to my personal attorney and then mr. giuliani as his personal attorney makes certain requests or demands we assume it's coming from the president. i don't -- i'm not testifying that i heard the president tell mr. giuliani to tell us. so if that's your question. >> but in your deposition the question was at the may 23rd meeting when the president said go talk to rudy. you responded he didn't even say go talk. he said talk to rudy. you subsequently said it was sort of like i don't want to talk about this. so it wasn't an order or a direction to go talk with mr. giuliani, correct? >> our conclusion and the conclusion of the th

senator volker, your are you aware of the statement from mr. petrenko that he said no one told the ukrainians, certainly not him that there was any linkage between the security assistance funds and investigations? >> i saw that statement, yes. >> do you know the foreign minister? >> i do. >> during time relevant, did you have any discussions with him about the investigation and links? >> not about investigations with him, i believe i kept that discussion to being with mr. yermak. and we did discuss with foreign minister poroshenko and his diplomatic adviser security assistance after it was raised august 29th. i discussed that with him. >> the primary person you worked with was mr. yermak? >> yes. >> and mr. yermak also had some meetings with ambassador sondland, did mr. yermak ever give you any feedback from his interactions with ambassador sondland? >> i cannot say whether he did or did not, we were in frequent contact and talked about the issues as we went along. >> the episode at warsaw where apparently ambassador sondland pulled mr. yermak

volker responded, good grief, please tell him to let the u.s. government representative speak for the u.s. lieu seng owe has his own self-interest here. taylor confirmed that he had communicated that message to the ukrainians. he added, i briefed ulrich this afternoon on this. referring to breck tell. everyone is in the loop. three things are critical about this whatsapp exchange. >> first while the ukrainians will -- they were communicating without our knowledge. ambassador taylor, ambassador volker and i were all surprised by this. second, mr. giuliani was communicating with the reportedly corrupt ukrainian prosecutor and discussing whether a zelensky trump meeting was going to happen, again, without our knowledge. third, with this alarming news, ambassador taylor briefed the counselor to secretary of state pompeo. and even as late as september 24th of this year, secretary pompeo was directing kurt volker to speak with mr. giuliani. in a whatsapp message, kurt volker told me in part, spoke with rudy per guidance from s. s is the state departme

>> that's correct. >> and volker was handling, ambassador volker was -- >> volker, perry, and others. >> okay. ambassador volker testified. he's a professional diplomat, correct? >> yes, he is. >> and you said you had a great relationship with him? >> i do. yes. >> you said he was a very smart guy? >> yes. >> ambassador yovanovitch said he's a brilliant diplomat, in fact. do you agree with that? >> he's pretty -- pretty smart. >> you stated he's one of those people i'd hand my wallet to. >> i would. >> so did you hear his testimony yesterday? >> i did not. >> okay because he didn't -- >> i was busy getting ready for you. >> -- he didn't -- he didn't have any evidence of any of these preconditions and he was the one most engaged with the ukrainians, wasn't he? >> yes. >> okay. i mean, you testified and this was his full-time job, although he was doing it for free. >> he was the special envoy. >> and you testified you came in and out of the events, correct? >> that's correct. >> okay. all right. your deposition. we -- we -- we asked you about your communications with the president. and

you have another witness tomorrow volker. another member of the three the former special envoy to ukraine who is going to have to revise testimony because subsequent people who testified discussed incidents he was asked about and didn't know about. you have this issue of even a couple witnesses who have come forward who seem to be more protective of the president or less critical of him are the ones who have found themselves coming under more questions as other witnesses have called into question their ver rasty. it's important to note that these witnesses this week are essentially firsthand witnesses. who interacted directly with president trump. and volker will come tomorrow. he was there along with sondland. at the original meeting in may. trump said i don't like the ukrainians and anything about them. it's a corrupt country. and they hate me. the personalization of the policy that is at the heart of the scandal. both sondland and volker dealt directly with president trump. vindman will come in tomorrow morning. he was on

volker, ambassador volker i'm sure you would agree. >> yes. >> the same thing would be true if it were the budget holder doing the same thing unless the state police agreed to conduct an investigation on a political rival? >> yes. correct. >> in your view is it any different for a member of congress? of course not, right? would you agree that the president has the same obligation unless he gets an investigation into a political rival. mr. morse son? >> yes, sir, i would agree with that hypothetical. >> i would agree. >> we're having a debate, both sides here, how to read what's plainly before us, the presidential phone call where the president ignored the work of the advisors, national security council, talking points, instead chose to talk about the bidens and hunter biden and asked for an investigation. so we are just going to have to debate that but isn't the principle that no bern, including the president, is above the law absolutely essential and worth the effort to make certain that we continue to guarantee, ambassador morrison? >> sir, i haven't -- >> i'm sorry, a.mbassador volk

you told kurt volker to call you. you left a message for kurt volker. kurt volker sent this message to andre yermak to prepare president zelensky and then president trump had a phone call, where president zelensky spoke very similar to what was in this text message. right? >> right. >> and you would agree that the message that is expressed here is that president zelensky needs to convention trump that he will do the investigations in order to nail down the date for a visit to washington, d.c. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> now, i'm going to move ahead in time to end of august and early september when you came to believe i believe as you testified, that it wasn't just the white house meeting that was contingent on the announcement of these investigations that the president wanted, but security assistance as well. you testified that in the absence of any credible explanation for the hold on security assistance, you came to the conclusion that like the white house visit, the aid was conditioned on the investigations that president trump wanted. is

volker who dealt with rudy giuliani quite frequently that volker said a couple of things. one, is, he sounded like a character witness for joe biden. that he told -- that he told giuliani you're barking up the wrong tree here with these conspiracy theories. and that he felt that dealing with giuliani was what the president had directed the three people to do in that may 23rd meeting and that he felt that it was a way for them to get the money to -- to ukraine. which is what his policy goal was. so he didn't see it as irregular, as an irregular route the way mr. taylor did earlier in earlier testimony. he saw it as just one more way to get the money to ukraine. so you do see why the republicans called him to a degree. one more thing i want to say here is that he says and in hindsight he wished he would have seen it and he did not understand when they said investigate burisma, which is the energy company that hunter biden sat on the board of, that he didn't see that equals joe biden. he said i wish in hindsight that i would have known that and i think that is what we'll hear

>> i think volker got off very easy. volker i think clearly if not outright committed perjury in his deposition, clearly dissembled and they let him get away with suddenly remembering a bunch of things he'd previously forgotten and also they let him get away with essentially this thing that i don't think anyone can plausibly believe, this sophisticated foreign policy professional had -- the sophisticated foreign policy professional who's actually crafting language for the ukrainian president to release about these investigations but he has no idea what these investigations are really about, he has no idea why donald trump is incredibly interested in an investigation into this one particular ukrainian energy company. i mean, i don't think anybody can possibly believe that although devin nunes could possibly pretend to. and i think they could have reamy torn him apart, and instead of they pretended to believe him and went easy on him because as said despite being a witness of defense he did end up confirming. >> walter, i'

i never met him and had very few calls with him, mostly with volker. volker testified. i answered their questions and described them as my opinions, not demands. i.e. no quid pro quo. let's continue with your calls and comments. fresno, california, and this is dietrich on the others line. go ahead. >> caller: yes, the republicans, all of them, keep asking about, where's the whistle-blower. where's the whistle-blower. when is the whistle-blower going to speak? if the truth be told, if the whistle-blower were to testify, it's not going to persuade their argument one way nor the other. even if it was in a closed door deposition, it's not going to persuade them. their opinions one way or another. so i think they should just, i mean, they're not believing people with firsthand knowledge. they don't care what the whistle-blower had to say. instead they'll just put their safety at risk. >> all right, live video outside the longworth house build iing. right across the street from the u.s. capitol. these protesters just outside of longworth where the members of congress, the wit

>> not to my knowledge, man. >> ambassador volker? >> not to my knowledge, either. >> did either of you have any evidence of quid pro quo? >> no, ma'am. any evidence of bribery? >> no, ma'am. >> any evidence of treason? >> no man. >> no evidence of treason. >> with that, i yield back. >> thank you. mr. morrison, did ambassador bolton want the security aid hold left? >> yes, congressman. he did. >> you testified he had a one-on-one meeting with president trump related to ukraine security assistance, is that right? >> can you point to where i testify that? >> on page 266 266, he said ambassador bolton had a one-on-one meeting with president trump in august, but the president was not yet ready to approve the release of the assistance. >> 226? >> 266 and 268. but i am asking you, did that happen or did that knock was mark >> i just want to be clear. okay, yes, sir. i see. >> you testified to that. what was the outcome of that meeting between ambassador bolton and president trump. >> ambassador bolton did not yet believe the president was

so gordon sondland and kurt volker adding more clarity to this situation. garrett haake continues to go through the documents for us. mimi rocah, thank you. we'll continue digging through the transcripts and bring you more as we get it. we'll be right back. d bring you more as we get it. we'll be right back. >>> thanks for watching "velshi & ruhle." i'm going to hand it over to chris jansing. the light just gets brighter with each piece of testimony. >> it does indeed. we're getting to see the role rudy giuliani played, how everybody watched him for signals that they thought were coming from the president. ali, we'll see you back here in an hour. good afternoon, i am chris jansing in for katy tur. we're expecting new transcripts any moment now from the two key witnesses in the impeachment inquiry as democrats put more of their investigation out into the open. this is day 43 of the impeachment inquiry, and here's what's happening. democrats have just released excerpts from the transcripts of their closed door depositions with gordon sondland and former speci

particularly volker. i was watching this and looking at the reaction it strikes me everybody thinks they won. democrats think they had this -- go to the basketball game watch the score board and everybody leaves happy. democrats think they won. republicans think they extracted enough moments. this afternoon to rebut the quid pro quo stuff. and i'm not sure how much of that will matter by tomorrow. after we hear from really the only person that i think may matter this week. sondland. >> there was also morrison's argument that he was on the call listening in. didn't like what he heard. he didn't like them bringing up the bidens. he doesn't think it was illegal. he's not actually an attorney. he did go to law school. his reaction was go to attorneys at the white house and inform them about the details of the call. and suggest that they lock it down. and if i don't understand, he was asked directly later on in the day, trying to be pinned down why did you want them to lock it down? he says it was because he w

and i recommend to ambassador volker that we stay clear. to find out the legal aspects of the question, however, i gave him the name of a deputy assistant attorney general whom i thought would be the proper point of contact for seeking a u.s. request for a foreign investigation. by mitt-august, because the security systems had been held for over a month for no reason that i could discern, i was beginning to hear fat longstanding u.s. policy of support for ukraine was shifting. i called state department counselor uric breck dull to discuss this on august 21st. he said he was not aware of a change in policy but would check on the status. my concern deepened the next day on august 22nd during a phone call with mr. morrison. i asked him if there had been a change in policy, to which he responded, it remains to be seen. he also told me during this call that the president doesn't want to provide any assistance at all. that was extremely troubling to me as i had told secretary pompeo in may if the policy of strong support for ukraine were to chang

volker. we were discussing this before he began with a member of the intelligence committee who was in a tight-lipped way citing news accounts. now you have the news, which is that volker and sondland are moving closer to whatever you want to call it, a ukraine plot, a conditioning government action on getting reelection help, which is a no-no, or what we have reported as a potential impeachable offense, a bribery plot. they were joined briefly at the lectern by mick mulvaney in public, who is still fighting testifying. what we were discussing with the member of congress has now become, as they say, on the fwres congressional record, on record, actually there was a link. he's not denying that, he's just saying he didn't know it. that's something that defends himself but people aren't interested in the rise and fall of mr. volker very much. what he's saying is bad for the president and the other people involved in the plot. >> claire, i spoke with a congressional source while dan goldman was i

delegation also included senator johnson ukraine special envoy volker and lieutenant colonel alex been in the national security council my attendance of president selenski inauguration was not my 1st involvement with ukraine as i testified previously just 4 days after assuming my post as embassador in july of 2018 i received an official delegation from the government of then ukraine president petro poroshenko the meeting took place at the u.s. mission in brussels and was pre-arranged by my career e.u. mission staff and i have had several meetings since then in brussels later in february of 2019 i worked well with u.s. ambassador maria vonn of it and making my 1st official visit to ukraine for a u.s. navy visit to the strategic black sea port of odessa and the reason i raise these prior ukraine activities the meetings in brussels my visit to odessa is to emphasize that ukraine has been a part of my portfolio from my very 1st days as the u.s. ambassador and he claimed that i somehow muscled my way into the ukraine relationship is simply false during those alleged ski inauguration on may

speaking to ambassador volker. then ambassador taylor an hour later says the nightmare is they give the interview and don't get the security assistance. the russians love it and i quit. you would agree that in this text message, after you had spoken earlier an hour earlier with ambassador taylor that he is linking the security assistance to this interview,public announcement by zelenskiy. >> that's correct. >> and ambassador taylor said you had a conversation at that point and he did -- and that you told him that just as your text message indicates you did have a conversation with president trump prior to that text message. does that help to refresh your recollection that you in fact spoke to president trump at that time? >> again, i don't recall president trump ever talking to me about any security assistance, ever. what this tells me -- refreshing my memory is that by the 8th of september it was abundantly clear to everyone that there was a link and that we were discussing the chicken and egg issue of should the

>> that's correct. >> and volker was handling, ambassador volker was -- >> volker, perry and others. >> okay. >> ambassador volker, you testified he's a professional diplomat, correct? >> yes, he is. >> and you said you had a great relationship with him? >> i do. yes. >> you said he was a very smart guy? >> yes. >> ambassador yovanovitch said he's a brilliant diplomat, in fact? do you agree with that? >> he's pretty smart. >> you stated he's one of those people i'd hand my wallet to? >> i would. >> and so did you hear his testimony yesterday? >> i did not. >> okay. because. >> i was busy getting ready for you. >> you didn't have any -- you didn't have any evidence of any of these pre conditions? and he was the one most engaged with the ukrainians, wasn't he? >> yes. >> okay. i mean you testified you know this was his full-time job, although he was doing it for free? >> he was the special envoy. >> you testified you came in and outt of the event, correct? >> that's correct. >> okay. in your deposition, we asked you about your communications with the president and we asked you whether

i'm sorry, ambassador volker? >> yes. >> the rule of law central to our democracy. >> that's so true. we had some discussions and challenge from the other side, that the president has the authority in foreign policy to do what he likes. in fact, he does. a recent president by president trump to take our troops out of syria and allow the turkish forces to go in literally meant that some kurdish families went to bed saturday night and look up sunday morning, pack their kids and fled for their lives. a lot of people, including both sides of the aisle disagreed with that. the president has the authority to do it. impulsive asset has been about threatening our national security. we are not talking about that here. master volker, i listened to your testimony and i take it and thank you for making efforts to try to advance what had been a bipartisan party, to help ukraine get rid of corruption, help resist russian aggression. but you came to learn was that there was a sidebar ukraine policy with giuliani as an advocate,

i've known kurt volker for a very long time. i've admired him. i've talked to him when he got this position, thought it was a good thing. but quite frankly i was terribly disappointed today. he was not only threading a needle, he was splitting hairs right and left all along the way. and indeed, he helped to draft a statement for zelensky while at the same time telling the members incredulously that he really never made the connection between burisma and biden. so what was he doing? he said he was really helping to make a statement that was anti-corruption when in fact the only corruption that was going on here was by the president of the united states. and as others have pointed out today and certainly pointed out in the hearing today, the president has not gone after corruption in turkey. he's not gone after corruption in russia. even only knows he hasn't gone after corruption and murder in saudi arabia. he hasn't gone against corruption with his bromance with kim jong-un. so the president has a long way to go, and wouldn't even include corrupti

kurt volker was in that meeting. there is a senator in that meeting as well, came in in the wake of the inauguration. he said, this was a guy they should support. in that meeting, volker made clear in his testimony that the president made clear he was corrupt, that they were terrible people, despite what officials were telling him, saying they needed to talk to rudy because rudy, and i'm paraphrasing here, had basically made clear what was really happening on the ground in the president's perspective on the ground. so it shows how rudy giuliani rose to the position of being a focal point not just for president trump and president trump's views on ukraine and views on foreign policy of ukraine but also the almost desperate need ukranians felt to connect with somebody in the administration to get through to president trump. they identified that after trying to go through official channels, failing to set up a white house meeting, failing to get the way cleared, that they had to go to rudy giuliani. it was their only wa