[inaudible] >> my question is you mentioned many names but you didn't mention trotsky which i don't care about chalky but he has a lot of operation which i don't know, but . [inaudible] they go into different leftist parties and then they go to this power. is there analog with aoc and other candidates in congress and people around canada and using those properties, i don't know, their philosophies trotsky or something surely are red flags beforeyou that you follow . >> let's take one more in this round and that's you carl and we will come back to veronica and others. >> i'm carl gershwin from the national endowment for democracy and my question follows avery's question about why the rebound and i think his use of the term inequality was the first time the word quality got mentioned in this discussion area and you know i'm thinking that tocqueville used to write that over the last 700, 800 years democracy has been advancing and it was almost inevitable and confidential because and human by democracy equality. in his great concern was how do you protect liberty if democracy is advancing in

trotsky took the red army and said, i want to make it a working man's army. when you go to work, you don't wear a suit that has a raised collar and epaulets. you have a suit that has a laydown collar. on will -- as we saw on the front of that book, that was the early war uniform. it was a simple smock. the rank was on the collar. as the war progressed, there was more and more reference to the past, to the heoroics of the military achievement under the czars. so, a lot of the changes were made to kind of encourage that, to reinforce that. so, later on during the war, the uniform was now changed back to, in a sense, the czarist-type looking uniform. again, the medals came back. medals were prolific. the guard medals, the idea that there were famous cz arist units. now we were going to have elite red army units to raise morale and encourage the men to fight. so, i guess i would like people to take away from this -- i'll say, for example, that c-span is a source of much of the information that we use in our hobby. and i've heard numerous occasions, on various his

so, trotsky took the red army and said i want to make it a working man's army. so, when you go to work, you don't wear a suit that has a raised collar and epi lets. you have a suit that has a laydown collar. so as we saw on the front of that book, that was what we called the early war uniform. and it was just a simple smock like this with a laydown collar, and all the rank and insignia were on the collar. but as the war progressed, as i suggested, there was more and more reference to the past, to the heroics of the military achie achievements under the czars. so, a lot of the changes were made to kind of encourage that, to reinforce that. so, later on during the war, the uniform was now changed back to, in a sense, the czarist-looking type uniform with the boards and the raised collar, okay? again, the medals came back. medals were prolific. as i said, the guard medal, the idea of there were famous czarist guard units. well, now we're going to have elite red army guard units, to, again, raise morale, encourage the men to fight. so, i guess i'd like people to tak

my last book was called trotsky in new york, 1970, about trotsky and the months he spent in new york before the russian revolution. on a rating of the commissars, i would certainly rate trotsky in the top three. [laughter] john: any q and a's that you would welcome? brian: these three men -- these two men have already written so much, that if we could continue this until 5:00 this afternoon -- i would love to hear you tell again this story of guiteau and lafayette park and the fact that garfield was shot half a block from here. that story about lafayette park, i can't get it out of my head. john: james garfield was shot in july 1881. guiteau the assassin was stuck for several weeks. he had made the decision to remove garfield. again it was a regime change as opposed to a vindictive assassination. so he, one of the things he would do, he would read in the newspapers what was going on with the president. the president's schedule. the secret service existed, but it was still in the james west artemis gordon period, if you like that tv show. it did not protect the president. so what guit

my last book was called trotsky in new york, 1970, about trotsky and the months he spent in new york before the russian revolution. on a rating of the commissars, i would certainly rate trotsky in the top three. [laughter] 's that you and a would welcome? brian: these three men -- these two men have already written so much, that if we could continue this until 5:00 this afternoon -- i would love to hear you tell again this story of gateau and lafayette park and the fact that garfield was shot half a block from here. that story about lafayette park, i can't get it out of my head. john: james garfield was shot in july 1881. stucks the assassin was for several weeks. he had made the decision to remove garfield. again it was a regime change as opposed to a vindictive assassination. of the things he would do, he would read in the newspapers what was going on with the president. the president's schedule. the secret service existed, but it was still in the james west artemis gordon period, if you like that tv show. it did not protect the president. so what charles would do is he would go to

[laughter] if you even get the trotsky gcial anarchist in the room together it can get pretty ugly. so my question is, how does this democratic socialist future, how do we harness all this leftist energy for all of these factions to come together and mobilized? parties the democratic socialism? and then to operate. >> so the short answer is organizing. and those organizations i have been involved in that things are moving very slowly and for those sites to bubble up and foster in the long those very silly lines so it's interesting to think about this some people to go out and knock on doors and medicare for all to disabuse you when you are talking to 12 friends versus every day people. and personally i found that helpful through my own psyche but yes the best way to make phone calls and engage in the work of politics and with anger and the internal position of politics. >> i want to ask about the idea of municipal socialism so one is the idea of the direct democracy to be very micro- local and then are as we have seen in other places from that micro level of words. and with that dem

uniform and about the reference that i'm a guard, when the red army was first organized in the 1920s by trotski one thing he wanted to do was eliminate the uniform of the past, of the czar-ist regime. so under the czars, the uniform of a regular soldier in many cases would look like the one i'm wearing. the difference would be the raised collar and have ep illets. so he took the red army and said i want to make it a working man's army. so when you go to work, you don't wear a suit with a raised collar and ep illets, you have a suit that has a lay-down collar. so as we saw on the front of the book, that is what we call the early war uniform and it was just a simple spock like this with a lay down collar and all of the rankin significa insignie collar. but there was more and more reference to the past, to the heroics of the military achievements under the czars. so a lot of the changes were made to kind of encourage that, to reinforce that. so later on during the war, the uniform was now changed back to, in a sense, the czar-ist looking type uniform with the boards and the raised collar, okay. ag

trotsky and he knows all the stuff and he still comes around to the idea that nothing will work because real socialism because you read how it will work in the book those are on - - ideas are nutty and off-the-wall. but he commends bernie sanders as a sellout as a social democrat. why do people follow bernie? these people fall to the left of bernie sanders. and there is a big article in berlin and germany and is a real socialist not social democracy and then move away to social democracy and socialism and to go on and on. he is not the anti-semite and those which are coming back to in the bolshevik revolution failed and unlike those failures hours will work. >>. >> public policy fellow at the wilson center. to me this is a spectacle to see the american left and the so-called socialist today expressing solidarity. and it is repeating an old mistake with this attraction to authoritarian regime certainly there are explanations you might offer or a slogan, but i wonder if you can see that fatal attraction with the explanation. >> i would like to see the young people come up with sue one - -

. >> we were talking yesterday and you quoted me leon trotsky, and you also write in your book that we sometimes read in the conflict. it's like a boxing ring you can put on your hand and you might get clocked. .. so you were talking, no permanent victories, only permanent battles, were talking wars like the cold war which was a forever work until it ended.il that is the reality that a lot of people don't seem to want to face. >> long-term resilience, adaptability, the ability to evolve when our adversaries evolve, that is the stuff that we need to focus on, not necessarily how to get down broadway. >> that is a great place to in into. >> how societies remain free and you guys have done a wonderful job for one hour, could've been a lot longer in this conversation will go on. [laughter] and pleased to be with you, thank you to our panel, have a good day. thank you. >> you are watching a special edition of book tv area now during the week while members of congress are in the district due to the pandemic. on wednesday the digital world, michael strain discussing how the future of success