no one said the cdc. the cdc has just been absent. and it isn't because they all of a sudden forgot how to do all of this. there's clearly been a decision to sideline the cdc, to make sure that they're not collecting and presenting data to the american people. and it makes the work of all public health officials across the country much, much harder. we need the cdc back. we really do. we're going to have a much harder time getting lieu it without them. >> do you know how we get them back? i mean i understand that in public health, you have to know both the science but also the political science, and you've been part of, you know, fighting for these, for agencies like this, to get their due, in terms of resources, and respect, and bureaucratic world, that is federal government. is there somebody who could fix this, could congress fix this, through better oversight? could public pressure fix this? how do you imagine this getting righted? we really need them back. >> yes, so the good news is all of the great people at the cdc, most of th

no one said the cdc. the cdc has just been absent. and that -- it isn't because they, all of a sudden, forgot how to do all of this. there's clearly been a decision to sideline the cdc, to make sure that they're not collecting and presenting data to the american people. and it makes the work of all public-health officials, across the country, much, much harder. we need the cdc back. we really do. we're going to have a much harder time getting through it without them. >> do you know how we get them back? i mean, i understand that, in public health, you have to know, both, the science but also the political science. and you have been part of fighting for agencies like this to get their due in terms of resources and respect in the bureaucratic world, that is federal government. is there somebody who could fix this? could congress fix this, through better oversight? could public pressure fix this? how do you imagine this getting righted? we really need them back. >> yeah. so the good news is all of the great people at the cdc. most of the

but why is it rejecting cdc guidelines that it asked the cdc to prepare to do that safely? cnn first told you about this guidance to open places like schools and businesses and places of worship last week, but we just learned that the administration is now tabling that guidance even as most states move to reopen by the end of this week. >> recommendations that the

the problem the cdc says. their information is being filtered. not the daily briefings that the cdc has given in the past, and it separates the public from the direct access to the science. that's where they think the problem is. >> yeah. i mean, you see that playing out on the airwaves, right? used to hear regularly from folks like that, you don't anymore. at least for now. drew griffin, good reporting, thank you very much. >>> tough calls to make for governors across the country as some see spikes in cases and deaths from covid, but they're looking to minimize the economic damage. the governor of kentucky joins me next to discuss his reopening plan and the difficult balancing act he faces. listerine® cleans virtually 100%. helping to prevent gum disease and bad breath. never settle for 25%. always go for 100. bring out the bold™ no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. ibut that doesn't mean ayou're in this alone. n-n-n-no-no we're automatically refunding ou

and cdc staff in china cut back with the last remaining cdc officer recalled home from the china cdc in july, 2019, leaving an intelligence vacuum when covid-19 began to emerge. so what do you think the significance of this editorial is? >> i think it reflects a deep unease worldwide at the u.s. role in this. one, as you say, that the cdc really appeared to bungle the early response and part of that was testing in particular. south korea and the u.s. famously had the first cases on the same day. south korea responded immediately, aggressively, and the u.s. really dropped the ball on testing for -- we missed a couple of months there. i think the other element of this, beyond the cdc, is that the world and the "lancet" expect the u.s. to play some kind of leadership role in global health. so president george w. bush really led the way in fighting aids with his program, also with the malaria initiative. president obama led the way in responding to ebola in africa, in 2014. and there's a sense today, i think, outside the u.s., that the trump administration rather than leading the way has

, what is going on at the cdc? joining me now is the person who probably knows more about this, other than anyone at the cdc, jason darren, reporter for the associated press, who has broken these scoops about why the white house is burying the cdc guidance. jason, thank you again for your time tonight. the cdc director, robert redfield said yesterday, that the new guidance would be coming soon. what do you make of that? what does soon mean? is there really an effort to get this guidance published? because it is, as you are reporting, remarkably detailed information that people need. >> well, first of all, thanks for having me, ali, i appreciate it. yes, there has been an effort at cdc to gets this guidance published for weeks now. and what the emails i obtained showed is starting in early april, the guidance was sent to the white house for approval from cdc, and it got caught in kind of a logjam there for weeks and by the 30th that's when the cdc was told it will never see the light of day, according to three diffe

this is the cdc director saying tonight the best, the rosiest of the dozen forecasting models the cdc is tracking says there will be 100,000 americans dead by then by two weeks from now. and it gets worse from there. that the the best case scenario. and the president, you know, did say at the white house already today when he was asked by a cnn reporter as to whether or not the death toll might be too low, he said actually that the real death toll is much lower than what the official numbers say. who says they are over stating the death toll? all right. the president really has been saying for a solid week now that the virus will go away on its own without a vaccine. he said it would go away on its own in april because viruses hate months that begin with a or something. he says it will go away without a vaccine. he said this evening today at an event supposed to be hyping how great america is doing in developing a vaccine. the president saying that doesn't really matter. he's there to hype vaccine development but vaccine disappearance magic will fix this problem before we need a vacci

and as an alumnus of the cdc, i'm so-called president of the cdc fan club. and i am really saddened that it's been sidelined this way because it continues to be the premier public health agency in the world. it ought to be leading the response against coronavirus both here and in many way influencing what's going on around the world. we would have liked that. it certainly happened in previous outbreaks whether it's ebola, zika, chicken virus, the 2009 h1n1 flu outbreak. the cdc actually led wonderfully and instructed us, gave us information about what to do locally. and there was harmony between the cdc, state, and local health departments. those relationships are still there. they need to be activated. the cdc, i would love to see come back to the fore. >> so, you know, sanjay, many states have been moving through the reopening process. the vast majority of them for weeks without these guidelines, right? this is just the facts. they have done so -- obviously you don't want a one size fits all. but they have done so counter to the white house guidelines whic

to edit the cdc's work. i wish president trump and his aides could be trusted to tell the market people the truth about this public health crisis. i wish they could be trusted to engage in political censorship of the medical and scientific judgments. of our nation's foremost experts. but at this point in the crisis, after all of the disinformation, all of the transparent attempts at political things, every american knows full well, the president and his staff, simply cannot be trusted to tell the truth. just yesterday, the president claimed that covid-19 cases are calling everywhere in america. but another report, also good to be released by the president's own coronavirus task force, is said to show infections like this are spiking to new heights. in a large number in small and large communities around the country. places in tennessee and iowa. and in kentucky. the point is that american must have the candid guidance of our best science is pretty unfiltered unedited, uncensored. by president trump for his p

he also talked about the cdc, he denied cnn reporting that he was complaining at the cdc at a lunch with republican senators yesterday, saying that they had botched testing early on. as we know now, multiple health experts say the late testing from the cdc led to a delay in testing in the united states. he said he had confidence in cdc director robert redfield and said he has two days left of taking hydroxychloroquine, a drug that even the fda has cautioned against coronavirus patients using. >> we'll follow up on all of his statements fairly soon. thanks so much, kaitlan. kaitlan was in the cabinet room when the president answered a few reports' questions. >>> more breaking news we're following, the u.s. coronavirus death toll now is well above 92,000 as all 50 states are moving ahead with plans to reopen businesses, schools, and public places, at least in some form. let's talk about all that's going on with our chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta. and the director of the harvard global health institute, dr. ashish jha. sanjay, the president is denying he said anything negative

it's a cdc product. >> reporter: a lack of fanfare for the cdc guidelines but not for reopening. >> as for the rallies, there will be rallies. if you're social distancing at a rally, if you only had two out of every ten seats facility at a trump rally, it would look more like a biden or a clinton rally so that would be odd. >> reporter: and jake, no rallies just yet, but what we are seeing is the vice president and the president increasingly traveling to battleground states around the country. today we saw the vice president going to a burger restaurant with florida governor ron desantis. as you can see in this video, the vice president and the florida governor, neither of them wearing masks. in fact nobody at that restaurant appeared to have been wearing masks other than some of the reporters who were traveling with the vice president. the vice president's spokesman said that patrons and staff were given a temperature check and asked if they had symptoms but they were not tested for the virus. so the vice president there certainly flouting cdc guidelines recommending people wear ma

i wasn't in the cdc. but in my interactions with people at cdc, there certainly is a process for making sure communications are approved within the agency and making sure things are correct. but in terms of being able to release information to the public or brief on a new scientific finding, especially during an outbreak or an epidemic, i didn't see that or experience that or see that from the outside. if you look at past outbreaks in the united states, you can see the cdc was doing daily briefings, as you just said, while things are complicated and dangerous. the cdc was providing the information that it had on a regular basis, very expected schedule of speaking to the american public. and i think they should be able to do that now. >> the president was reportedly highly critical of the cdc at his luncheon with republican senators up on capitol hill today. over the weekend one of his top advisers went on television to blame the cdc for early testing mishaps. do you worry that these attacks from the white

that was a major problem and the cdc played a role in that but the cdc is the best prevention agency in the entire world. other countries model their public health prevention agencies after the cdc and it's expected that the thousands of epidemiologists there will contribute to what we know about prevention of a new infectious disease. the two goals, from the very beginning, was to prevent the new virus and to save the lives of the people who are infected. and we could be optimistic about that because of the short duration of the virus. and the goal, from the very beginning, was the identification and isolation of infected people. but because of the scarcity of testing, we said, well, we can't. we don't have enough tests. so we will change our policy toward what our priorities are. that is saving lives. and we'll pretend we don't have to text becaust because we know can't. well, that's really unconscionable because you start to say what is testing? it's making test kits. no, that isn't what it is. the goal is to identify and isolate as many infected people as you can. and we still ha

maybe you know more customer. >> brad asked about recent cdc documents regarding reopening the cdc created was not so much a plan for reopening, but an update of models they had previously been undertaking at the national level and all models to project potential scenarios of what might happen depending upon what certain conditions do or do not come through. as many are aware we've been undertaking our old modeling are exercises with the state we are aware of the cdc models as well, cannot speak for what happens with those and how they have been viewed or implemented. we are aware of them. so okay thanks. the last question for today goes to emily over at w abi. so thank you so much my question could be answered by governor mills or doctor shah. i've two questions at first when you said many of the new tests be prioritized with care facilities just across the state, but the increased testing with the restrictions lifted on those things to see their loved ones again? that's a good question, there's about 6800 people in long-term care facilities all across maine. we're very hopeful we will be

why would you undermine the cdc that way? well, maybe because you wanted to have an alternate source of data in case you wanted to trash the cdc's reputation and have data you are more comfortable with. keep that in mind when the white house starts disputing the coronavirus death toll in our country and saying that not that many americans have actually died. keep in mind that they have bought and paid for a private source of data to compete with and undermine the cdc's data. "the post" further reporting that the cdc is now so demoralized, they're now so kicked and beaten down, they're no longer even trying to play their traditional role of keeping the public informed at the time of a public health crisis. quote, the cdc, which has not held a briefing since early march, has repeatedly asked the white house to resume its sessions for the media, but they have not received permission, and the cdc has finally given up. also this. quote, now as trump has promised a reignited economy heading into the november election, cdc is in the

such as humans are usually made through cdc regional -- such issuances are usually made through cdc regional administrators. >> i wonder if you people could help us. we've got 10 counties in this state where the deaths and sickness from dysentery, especially babies, i have always been higher than the rest of the state. >> heino. most of those counties are in the low income areas. , bad sanitation. everything is bad -- no garbage disposal, bad sanitation, everything is bad. >> yes. you know, we've always wanted to get some fly control going down there, but we just haven't had anybody that knows how to organize the program. we don't have any equipment, trucks, bulldozers, drag lines, sprayers. we have been sent some big powers sprayers, but we have the money for trucks and things like that right now. we may be able to give you a little more help later on. , could you work out a deal with your highway department to use some of their heavy equipment? >> i thing we ought to be able to. >> how about that fly control in atlanta next week? monthsill be a couple of before i can get anybody to atlanta

cdc. so i want to get your reaction to the breaking news this morning that the guidelines that they put out have been rejected. >> well, we don't know if they're rejected or just stifled, but the point is the cdc ought to be in leadership. in every past outbreak in my lifetime, the cdc has been in leadership. we had daily press briefings from the cdc in the past. we had every imaginable way that the cdc takes charge and that's just not the case now. >> and you've been saying, you've been hearing from people around the world, from scientists and cdcs in other countries asking you where is the u.s. cdc? what is the impact of this retreat? >> oh, it is overwhelming. the depth of the bench at the cdc is not mirrored by any other equivalent agency in the world. we have incredible talent, incredible skill set, and a lot of experience. you have people at the cdc who have been in command positions inside epidemics all over the world. and they're sidelined. meanwhile, you know, we don't have any ov

audiovisual aids for training are planned and produced by cdc. all types of printed material are also available. training at all levels is carried on in the diagnosis, prevention, and control of communicable diseases. >> cdc is one of the taskforces of the public health service, a reservoir of engineering, scientific, and medical knowledge, ready to help each state in its fight against communicable diseases. today, as yesterday, the challenge continues. opportunity is great for doctors, for nurses, for scientists, and for many others with the ambition and training to accept that challenge. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> university of kansas professor beth bailey discusses how issues of race affected the u.s. military and its self-perception of being colorblind during the vietnam war. she focuses on how african-americans were viewed by white soldiers, and how white african-american -- how african-american soldiers protested mistreatment. this is courtesy of the national world war i museum and memorial in kansas city, missouri. prof. bailey: thank you all for bein

straight talk from ex-cdc indeed. people who work at the cdc have started speaking out anonymously now. telling reporters about the way the agency has been compromised and sidelined and pushed aside, and not really defanged so much as deformed by the trump administration over the course of this epidemic. but people who are ex-cdc, who are retired from the agency, can put their name to some of these critiques. dr. bruce weniger is a medical epidemiologist retired from cdc, one of the ex-cdc scientists who wrote that article. he joins us next. stay with us. ng and distributing more fresh food than anyone... our drivers helping grocers restock their shelves. how we're helping restaurants open pop-up markets. and encouraging all americans to take out to give back. adversity came to town. so we looked it in the eye. and it won't be us... that blinks first. introducing tide power pods with cat & nat. that is such a large load, don't the stains sneak through? new tide power pods can clean that... whole situation. it's like t

here is a screen shot from the cdc's web site as of yesterday. this is courtesy of the good folks at the internet archive, the way-back machine. this, as of yesterday, is the cdc's coronavirus resources page, where they list a whole bunch of different projections and models that they respect and you might want to look at and you can see that the university of washington model, the institute for health metrics and evaluation model that i've just been talking about, it is right there on the cdc web site right prominent place on top. that was yesterday. today is the day they upped the projected death toll for the united states from 74,000 to 134,000 dead americans. today is also presto the day the cdc dropped this model from their list of models that you should look at. for weeks now, they have been promoting this model, showcasing it, talking about it in the white house briefing room, a prominent place on the cdc web site, now that model doesn't say we will have 74,000 deaths, now we will have more than 130,000 deaths so they have just take continu

what are you hearing from cdc officials? >> reporter: well it depends on which officials we talk to, kate. senior officials are frustrating with the way the agency has been treated by the white house. they believe they have been putting politics a head of science and feel there is political components coming back like the southern border and travel restrictions focusing on the wrong country initially the cases on the east coast could be traced back to europe and instead cdc officials told us that the white house was focused on travel from china when they should have been focused elsewhere. otherwise, though, we have heard from sources closer to dr. redfield who pushed back on the assertion that he's in trouble. they say he's proud of leading the agency and he's committed to doing this work and that he's the right man for this job right now. he is not, though, infallible. they said he is not right man for this moment and he's not charismatic information and not pushing back on misinformation coming from president trump. and a

the office of hhs civil rights division and senior leaders at the cdc, hhs feeling that the cdc was restricting religion, the cdc saying they were just trying to save sxlielives and t hope these recommendations do just that. >> because so many hotspots in so many places of worship, really that was the beginning, especially here in washington, d.c., the beginning of the coronavirus outbreak. nick, before i let you go, even before these cdc guidelines were released or you got your hands on them, some church leaders were feeling pressure in their own communities to remain closed. what are you hearing? >> reporter: yeah, well, look behind us here, we're having the viewing for retired former leader of this congregation in east atlanta. we asked the members we saw here going in and out, are they worried about the pushback they get from the community. they said they're doing the best they can, they're following what at the time they thought were draft recommendations from the cdc, wiping down hymnal books, wiping down the pews, social distancing is in place here, only letting in ten at a t

. >> well, the cdc has failed. the cdc is responsible for stopping a pandemic like this arriving in the united states. the cdc is supposed to be deployed overseas, and then is supposed to be in charge of erecting a prevention infrastructure inside the united states. there is just no assessment other than the cdc failed. dr. redfield's answer to me is maddening, but the real story behind his answer is that he doesn't know when this guidance is coming out. what we know from reporting -- >> of course, right. >> he signed off on the guidance. yeah, it's sitting in the white house. it's up to the president to release it. so he can't give us an answer when it's coming out because the president, i guess, has decided it's never coming out. >> and the fact that dr. birx gave the answer that she did to us last week, i mean, i just -- you know, look, i don't know what her -- where her mind is on this, but saying, oh, no, no, it's just being edited. that's a really long edit for something that's already -- the game is well und

has the cdc been sidelined here? >> i think the perception is that the cdc has been sidelined and at least part of the time. once you feel like the work you're doing is going through a political lens, it gets to be very, very discouraging. >> reporter: on march 2nd as covid-19 was racing across the globe, a cdc internal daily report obtained by cnn found evidence of local transmission in 29 other countries. the next day, march 5th, three of the top six countries affected by the disease are in europe. internal emails reveal a cdc global travel alert is about to be issued, expected to be posted that night. >> it would have urged precautions for international travel anywhere, almost two months after a travel warning had been issued for china. but it was delayed for unexplained reasons. the travel alert that was supposed to be posted march 5th does not take place until march 11th, the same day president trump would announce his restrictions on most flights coming in from europe. >> we will be suspending all travel from e

but we still don't have the official document as completed by the cdc. of course every american regardless of where they live or what party they belong to wants to get back a to normal as quicy as possible. i know every member of aon the senate wants that to happen as soon as it possibly can. making the wrong decisions about when, where and how could result in the loss of precious lives that could be otherwise saved in the recurrence of a second wave that could be worse than the first. in order to make the decisions wisely the country needs guidance. these are literally matters of life and death. and that's why they prepared this guidance. but the white house blocked the release of the guidance reportedly said the president and his political appointees can make changes to it. now as wehe all know, the president isn't a doctor. the president is not a scientist. many don't even believe that he is a genius like he thinks he is a. it's become clear the last two months how unfamiliar he is with the disciplines of science and medicine. anyone who would say dri

such arrangements are usually made through cdc regional representatives. the request for assistance comes from state health officers. >> i wonder if you could help us. we have 10 counties in that state where the death and sickness from dysentery, especially babies, have always been higher than the rest of the states. >> i know. most of those counties are in the low income areas. bad sanitation. everything is bad. >> we have always wanted to get some fly control going down there. we just haven't had anybody that knows how to organize the program and see that it is carried out. we don't have any equipment. trucks, bulldozers, drag lines, sprayers. sprayers send you some but we haven't the money for trucks and things like that right now. we may be able to give you a little more help later on. you work out a deal with your highway department to use some of their equipment? >> i think we ought to be able to work something out there. now, about that training course and fly control in atlanta next week. >> i can't spare any of my people right now and it would be

so i applaud the cdc for this. they're not trying to coat over something, and it's important that people understand it's what you're breathing. it's not what you're touching that is making the difference. so i think they're 100% right, and i think the cdc is frankly doing a great job. you asked john just now about are they in fact clouded. i wish people could see what the cdc are doing right now. they have hundreds of people in the field helping the state health departments in ways that are absolutely immeasurable. they are putting out good information. they are not on the stage in washington, d.c., i agree, and that's a shame. but as somebody totally independent of the cdc, i can tell you we're very, very fortunate to have those professionals doing what they're doing right now, and they're doing a hell of a job. >> well, in this case i'm so happy to stand corrected. let me double down on it for all the families watching who just today used clorox wipes on whatever groceries that entered their house, have wiped dow

redfield and the cdc. but behind the scenes they've become the latest scapegoat for this crisis as the former acting cdc director how worrying is that for you? >> well, what really worries me, wolf, is if public health is viewed as the enemy of getting the economy up and running. public health is the road map. it's the road map to getting the economy up and running. it's the road map for workers going to work feeling safe that their risk of being exposed has been reduced. it's the road map for the general public being comfortable going into stores and malls and restaurants. if you set it up that it's the enemy of the economy then as we move forward and people aren't doing the things that cdc and states recommend we may get people out to work quickly where we're going to see a rise in cases and we're going to meet a worse situation than we currently are. >> very interesting. sanjay, we do know there are some pacific reopening guidelines just been released by the cdc, the 60-page document. for example, they

i mean the cdc is donald trump -- >> claire. >> it's his. it's his. he owns the cdc. the guy who runs it is his appointee. who, by the way, couldn't get the job under bush. >> claire, you just hit the nail on the proverbial head here. he's not going to be judged in november on how many of his own executive branch officials he had fired and smeared on fox and friends. he's going to be judged on how well he took control and helmed the cdc when the test was not up to par. and redirected hhs when it first it wasn't doing everything it needed to do and took control of the w.h.o. and demanded more transparency from china and got on the phone with the european leaders -- he's not going to be judged on how well he acted like he was still a buff phone on reality tv show, this is his team. he will sink or die politically based on how well he runs the pandemic response team. do you think anyone has excomplained to him, claire. >> i don't think he gets that part. when peter navarro goes on tv and criticizes the cdc, you know, the cdc is trump. hhs is trump. azar is trump. you kno

straight talk from ex-cdc indeed. people who work at the cdc have started speaking out anonymously now. telling reporters about the way the agency has been compromised and sidelined and pushed aside, and not really defanged so much as deformed by the trump administration over the course of this ep em diddic. but people who are ex-cdc, who are retired from the agency, can put their name to some of these critiques. dr. bruce whenninger is a medical ep demologist retired from cdc, is one of the ex-cdc scientists who wrote that article joins us next. stay with us. ientists who wrote article joins us next. stay with us your transactions and check your balance from here. and pay bills from here. because your bank isn't just one place. it's virtually any place you are. just download and use the chase mobile app. visit chase.com/mobile. [anthony] hey mama, what's up? [mama] i'm confused. confused about what, everything ok? yeah, i only see one price on my phone bill. that doesn't sound confusing mama. you're on t-mobile, taxe

it'll be interesting to see how the cdc thread the needle here. this also comes right after the cdc issued new guidelines yesterday that suggested getting coronavirus off of surfaces, while possible, is not the likely mode of transmission. that is the it's person-to-person transmission, which really is the driver of this disease. if you start bringing congregants into a church en masse on sundays, that increases the chances you get infected on sundays. super-spreader's who not just the person beside them, but tens or dozens of people. that has happened in the past, harris. we'll find out from the president laying it out in just a few minutes time. this is something he promised yesterday, and again this morning, when he was talking with the bikers for "rolling for remembrance" about these new guidelines. we will hear them very soon. >> harris: john, just picking up on what you said, because it's an important point to remind people. we have seen, and there've been reports on the west coast, at least -- and you correct me if there are more -- that we

anthony fauci and cdc director robert redfield. they got some disturbing news. >> they gave us a pretty detailed outline of what they felt was happening with this virus. we knew this was going to be a serious crisis. >> it was exactly the opposite of what president trump was saying publicly. >> looks like by april, you know, in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away. >> the president's cdc director contradicted him later that week in an interview with dr. sanjay gupta. >> i think this virus is probably with us beyond this season, or beyond this year, and i think eventually the virus will find a foothold. >> a very small number of people in the country right now with it. it's like around 12. many of them are getting better. some are fully recovered already. so we're in very good shape. >> he was still of the view that you could stop flights, build walls, and keep coronavirus from coming to the united states. >> the chances of that were near zero, partly because it was now more than two weeks since the cdc tes

>> oh, the cdc obviously the cdc director, the cdc deputy director dr. redfield. ann comes to mind, that's my bias. i've known him for over 20 years. but, you know, those are the individuals i expect when i think of who -- when i turn on the radio and turn on the tv and read the newspaper. those are the voices i expect to hear telling me this is what's going on in the outbreak. this is what i should be expecting. this is what i should be doing. >> i want to read a quote for the audience that i think goes to why we were not prepared for this pandemic. this is from your book "the next pandemic" and you say the time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the acts in the display case where the sign says in case of emergency break glass. please expand on that, doctor. >> so this is about having the appropriate public health systems in place every day. we see this playing out during the current outbreak. it was -- it's very clear that we had inadequate public health infrastructure, the people, the tools, the systems at our national level, at our state le

the cdc decided to combine them in federal numbers, making cdc numbers bigger than florida's own figures. with deaths approaching 100,000 people, bottom line is states and the federal government may have been using inaccurate test numbers as they made decisions on reopening, and it is unclear what they've done to overall integrity of the testing data, which is not a comforting thought. for weeks we have been following public available numbers. the data used for insight into how many cases are confirmed, leading indicator for how many deaths you're likely to see which inform projections on how many could lose their lives, and how many beds we have, and if we're testing enough. joining me, robinson meyer, staff writer for the atlantic. i also have dr. patel, primary care physician, former policy director at the obama white house and msnbc contributor. robinson, let me start with you. when and how did you figure this out? >> yeah, so over the past few weeks, america's ability to test, at least in numbers, has increased. it has gone, we were testing 150,000 a day to testing 400,000 a day, in

the white house views the cdc guidelines as too strict and that's why they sent it back to the cdc to revise it. we're watering down the initial cdc decision. this comes as the white house own safeguards to protect the president broke down. the person close to the white house tells nbc news that president trump was lava level mad after working one of his valets tested positive. the president and the vice president have since tested n g negative. there's the economic calamity and it wraratchets up not to bo this process. amid the chaos, the justice department is seeking to drop its case against michael flynn who pled guilty to lying to special counsel mueller's investigation. more on that in a moment. it's amazing how much effort to justice department is putting into to undo the mueller investigation in a pandemic. we'll get to that in a couple of segments. joining from the kwhowhite housd it decision on the cdc hans. we're little a confused because there seem to be some indication. at first the white house said yes, they owned sending it back and there's an indication, no, it was the

a doctor from the cdc, dr. messionnier got ahead of the messaging they were working on and warned publicly there is going to be severe disruption to america life. >> we are asking the american public to work with us and prepare in the expectation that this could be bad. >> the president was angry than and said why are they overplaying the problem? it's leading to the stock market crash. >> breaking news. >> the dow is taking a dramatic hit down, almost 900 points. >> president trump actually considered firing dr. messionnier but ultimately did not. >> if the president was less concerned with what the warning sounded like and more concerned with the content of the warning, he might have concluded the cdc was right and moved much more quickly to try to mitigate the effects, trying to prepare the american people. >> instead, the day the president returned from india, he blamed the media, tweeting that msnbc and cnn are, quote, doing everything possible to make the coronavirus look as bad as possible, including pan

i worked at cdc for 13 years and worked side by side with dr. fauci on a number of responses, and, you know, he's one of the most respected infectious disease immunologists in the world and what you want to see is what he's laying out there not come true because we're taking actions that are necessary to make it safe for children to return to school in some fashion and the point he's making is we're not going to have something incredincrediblea vaccine. we need to build the public health system to respond and contain little sparks of dise e disease. >> it's a renowned agency, i think it's fair to say worldwide. it's performance is lasting and over saw the testing debacle. don mcneil said it's a great agency but incompetently led and i think dr. redfield should resign. do you agree? >> four of the years i was in emergency response and i'd have to say, there was never a response where we didn't make mistakes, what is different here is cdc is not facing the public through the media every day to explain what they're doing, what they're learning, how

you know, i worked at cdc for 13 years and worked side by side with dr. fauci on a number of responses, and you know, he's one of the most respected infectious disease immunologists in the world. and what you want to see is what he's laying out there not come true because we're taking the actions that are necessary to make it safe for children to return to school in some fashion. the point he's making is that we're not going to have something incredible like a vaccine by this fall, and if we are serious about trying to get parts of the economy open and running, we need to do a lot more than we're doing now in terms of building our public health system to be able to respond and contain little sparks of disease so they don't become wildfires. >> you were interim head of cdc. it's a renowned agency, i think it's fair to say, worldwide. its performance here many have viewed as deeply lacking. it oversaw the testing debacle, don mcneil, a science reporter for "new york times" said it's a great agency but incompetently led, and i think dr. redfield, the head of

and the cdc still represents some of the best epidemiologists in the world. it's worth looking at it and understanding not only the guidelines but what's driving the guidelines. but yes, i think what you're asking, is the cdc once again being sidelined and they are. i think it's pretty clear at this point. >> if you want to see, i think, the personification right now of the lines being drawn between politics and science, it's how the president talked about these studies that have been done on hydroxychloroquine. i want to play that sound for both of you now. >> if you look at the one survey, the only bad survey, they were giving it to people in very bad shape. they were very old, almost dead. it was a trump enemy statement. >> that study was a phony study put out by the v. ra. >>> again, it's one thing. sanjay, and dana, i want your take too. you know what, i'm taking it. i had a conversation with my doctor. we decided it was the best course. there are implications there that are troubling. that's one thing. it's another thing to go to war against this study

the guidance that cdc puts out there is for that specific mission. it's for disease control and prevention. we should take those recommendations at heart. >> i want your thoughts on the company maderfa getting approved to start a phase 2 trial of the coronavirus vaccine. how significant is this? >> well, washington, that is actually great news. it shows that things are moving forward as fast as possible i spoke to frauch that things could be provided as things worked as we had hoped they would. i think things are moving as we had hoped. it's as fast as science allows. now, it's only one of many and we can't stop focus that the vaccine is going to help us get out of this pandemic, it will be essential to contain it so people can be comfortable again to resume their normal lives. it's only one of many candidates and they all need to be supportive at this stage because we don't know which one will eventually prove to be safe and effective. >> an important point as well. thanks, to you. thanks, to both of you for the important critical work that you both

cdc has been there for a long time. there is some great talent and the cdc. ideal of them. now what you're saying is we have done 14 million tests. let's go back to the first week. cdc has done i think a really good job. i did not say anything bad about cdc at the meeting. meeting -- the republican party, the senators virtually everyone was there. 53 there. and we had a great meeting. we are looking to do great things for the country. we are helping people with stimulus, getting money to people. they need it. and we are going to open up, i call it transition to greatness. that is what it is, transition to greatness. when they tell you the numbers, those are really surprisingly good numbers. we are doing very well. i think it is going to be something special. these are two governors we're invited, they have both done a fantastic job. one happens to be a democrat, one happens to be republican. i think we are about even -- we could say the democrats have been as nice about what we have done as the republicans. it has been terrific. laura, i know she will speak her mind and sou

we do have communication with the cdc. i will review that particular guideline on their website and see what we can do. that is an interesting question in statement. -- and statement. host: tarsha is next out of tuscaloosa, alabama. good morning. caller: good morning, dr. brooks. i do have a question i would like to address. i think there is an underlying issue not being looked at. some decisions that are being some whereby it may not favor others. i think it is not just that there may be some underlying health conditions that are out there making it more likely minorities are dying from this disease. say for instance, you have nurses. and it is something that maybe people do not want to talk about. but you have nurses from all over the country saying that there are patients being left -- being put under on the breathing machines and they are left to die. most of them are minority patients, just like medical apartheid. and then, there's no one there because their family members have left. i know in alabama they had this po

of the cdc. navarro said the cdc let the country down on testing. >> joining us now is andy slavitt, the former acting administrator for medicare and medicaid services under president obama. thanks for being with us today. i know you've been looking at the country over the last few weeks and considering it as a patchwork of reopening there. we are faced with new questions every day, which is new york and new jersey, the cases continue to drop day by day. texas, we've seen the largest single-day spike in the number of new cases. looking at texas right now and put the graph on the screen, do you have explanations for why. i know there's been new testing, particularly around amarillo where there is a meatpacking plant. >> well, good morning. i think it's going to be impossible to find positive -- in retrospect it might be easy. in real-time, because we recognize that we have testing deficiencies that we're making up for, because some of the data lags when people are experiencing things and because t