that's why jim lawson was in nashville. they were in the basement of clark memorial church and that's where they learned how to do the things that have led us to this conversation today. to go to a point president obama made, it's a vivid, powerful expression of a fundamentally american evnlightenment idea. the individual has agency and our individual voices, if enough of us raise them, can create a chorus that lifts us to a better place. >> congressman, to jon's superbly crafted point today, offered a tableau of the history of the past few decades in our country. i thought one of the most indelible points made by president obama was to readjust our thinking for the modern era and identify one john lewis as among our founding fathers. >> well, i thought that was a very poignant point that president obama made. you know, when the fullest history of our nation is written, john lewis' name will be etched in that history as the story of one of our founding fathers who made our union more perfect. our job is to take up that mant

jim lawson, who taught them about nonviolence right there in shville. and after that, even until the present, john lewis, from time to time, pops up at things that i'm doing, he's doing. we encounter each other, see each other, even in recent he became the warrose reputation from getting hit over the head down there on the bridge and all the other things that he did could be relied upon in policy discussions to get-- make the statement or give you the support that people would say, "well, okay, if you got l jois on your side, i guess maybe we ought to talk about doing that." was principled. he did what he thought he should do. but if he thought somebody else knew more than he did or had more experience than he did, he would listen prayerfully becse he was a spiritual guy, too. he was practical, uat he was spir and he was courageous. and he was useful to the movement forever because jt saying his name, getting his pport could be crucial a important times.as >> sreen: i want to ask you both this question. charlayne, you first. in the context of what isha

as a college student in tennessee, he signed up for jim lawson's workshops on the tactic of nonviolent civil disobedien disobedience. john lewis was getting something inside his head, an idea he couldn't shake. it took hold of him. that nonviolent resistance and civil disobedience were the means to change laws, but also change hearts and change minds, and change nations. and change the world. so, he helped organize the nashville campaign in 1960. he and other young men and women sat at a segregated lunch counter, well-dressed, straight-backed, refusing to let a milk shake port on their heads were a cigarette extinguished on their backs, or a foot aimed at their ribs, refuse to let that dented their dignity and their sense of purpose. after a few months, the nashville campaign achieved the first successful desegregation of public facilities in any major city in the south. john got a taste of jail for the first, second, third... well, several times. [laughter] but he also got a taste of victory, and it consumed him with righteous purpose. he took the battle deeper into the south. that sa

lawson and reverend kelly miller smith to round up diane nash and james babble and marion barry, who later became the mayor of washington, d.c. there was a tremendous cadre of talent and ged ca dedication in that national movement and it really opened up the doors for the other college campuses and they were the ones that picked up the freedom rides when they were stopped in alabama with bombs and threats from the klan. c.t. vivian, though, was with me down in -- he was in selma with john and i was there also but where we got beat up was in st. augustine, florida, where the sheriff deputized a group of klan and gave them permission to beat us up. but people never fought back, they never got angry and dr. king told me to try to -- that there was no need to keep marching, that we should slow down a little bit because we didn't want to get people more seriously hurt. but we wouldn't stop. we kept on going until the civil rights bill was passed in 1964. >> ambassador, mayor, reverend andrew young, thank you so much and thank you for all that you have sacrificed, all that you have given,

. >> jim lawson came to nashville, and he enrolled as a student at vanderbilt university divinity school. >> this unbelievable young man taught us the philosophy and the discipline of nonviolence. and he kept saying respect the dignity and the worth of every human being. even if someone beats you, throw you in jail, look them in the eye and respect them. >> lawson's group began sit-ins at lunch counters in downtown nashville in early 1960. lewis and the other students filled the counters, tried to order food and then took whatever abuse was hurled at them. when the 20-year-old lewis was arrested for the first time in february 1960, his parents were shocked. >> a lot of people of color at that time, they were afraid of what was going to happen. he could die. they could lose the land or any number of terrible consequences. >> but lewis and the other students continued their sit-ins. and after months of protests, the politicians and business leaders in nashville agreed to desegregate lunch counters in may 1960. >> we all applauded, and here was the situation that turned out right. >> with t

in greenberg, february 1st, off nashville, the reverend jim lawson, i have known john as -- he took the most beatings. john engaged everything. for example, said -- to test the village. the overriding challenge -- john never stopped going. black and brown had to sit behind at the military bases. said i want my freedom now. he loved that. in december, could be immortalized on the bridge. the beating he took, it was a choice moment. a beating for all of us. john didn't stop there. john lived to be 80. he never stopped. and then a step further, he was able to at the african-american museum, couldn't happen. always on the edge to make these things happen. last act was the voting rights act of 1965. blacks can vote, 18-year-olds can vote. john lewis helped establish democracy around the world. i am sad that he's dead. we talked at least once a month all these years. and our movements get the credit it deserves. happy but sad at the same time. >> rev. jesse jackson. thank you, sir. thank you very much. >> you're welcome. >> take care of yourself. thank you, sir. kelly o'donnell is back with m

we decided we were going to participate in the wororkshops that jim lawson was conducting in nashvhville focused on the et ins. it w was j john who persuadededo go to o the workshohops. i had so many jobsbs on campus,i did not have time. as john has s always been,n, hes very persuasive and persistent. j just tothe wororkshops stop hearing john talk.k. byo and behold, i w was consumd the information andnd the straty and that sort of thing.. john realllly recruited me into it. one thing i want to say is that, 1960 -- weit ins in desegregated thehe lunch countes in nashville in about threee months. we were one of the first student groups in our community that did that. one of the things that did tt was ththe fact t that we had strategy. we had our spokesperson. she had to deal with the media and be able to put it in such a way that it was appealing. we had to try to win as many people over as possible to make changes. you cacannot do it without winng the sympathy, if not the actctie susupport, of the majority. ingot a majority of people nashville to really support what we were doing. the ec

lawson, i got hooked. and i've never changed. in fact, that's what i do now, training people all over the world continuing nonviolence, martin luther king's nonviolence, and so i've trained people, but that was my beginning with john lewis. jon: we have seen video of him crossing the edmund pettus bridge with both president clinton and president obama. what do you think about the idea of renaming that bridge for john lewis? >> well, i think that the naming of the bridge is something that i would hope that there was a lot of support for that, and it would be ideal because it would be a kind of a history because to be honest with you, a lot of people will go on the tours, for example, now and forever, they will be going to that bridge because of the crossing that john lewis and hosea williams and the others did, and the bloody sunday was the signal of lessons for everybody in terms of bringing about social change and particularly the bill. so if the bridge was named for john lewis, i don't see how it would h

. >> jim lawson enrolled at vanderbilt divinity school. >> this unbelievable young man taught us a philosophy. and he kept say respect the dignity and the worth of every human being, even if someone beat you, throw you in jail. look them in the eye and respect them. >> lawson's group began sit-ins at lunch counters in downtown na nashville in early 1960. lewis and the other students filled the counters, tried to order food and took whatever abuse was hurled at them. when the 20-year-old lewis was arrested for the first time in february 1960, his parents were shocked. >> a lot of people of color at that time, they were afraid of what was going to happen. he could die. they could lose the land or any number of terrible consequences. >> but lewis and the other students continued their sit-ins. and after months of protests, the politicians and business leaders in nashville agreed to desegregate lunch counters in may 1960. >> we all applauded, and here was the situation that turned out, right? >> with that success, john lewis was even more inspired to take on jim crow laws that segregated people b

. >> jim lawson came to nashville and he enrolled as a student at vanderbilt university, divinity school. >> this unbelievable young man taught us philosophy and he kept said respect the dignity and the worth of every human being, even if somebody beats you or throw you in jail, look them in the eye, and respect them. >>> lawson's group began sit-ins at lunch counters in downtown nashville in early 1960. lewis and the other students filled the counters, tried to orders food and then took whatever abuse was hurled at them. on the 20-year-old lewis arrested for the first time in february, 1960, his parents were shocked. >> a lot of people of color at that time were afraid of what was going to happen. he could die and they could lose the land and any number of terrible consequences. >> lewis and the other students continued the sit-ins. and after months of protests the politicians and business leaders in nashville agreed to desegregate lunch counters in may of 1960. >> we all applauded and here was a situation that turned out right. >> with that success, john lewiss was more inspired to tak

and individuals like jim lawson, who had a sort of a baptism in the philosophy and the discipline of non-violence. we took the long, hard look. we believed that our struggle was not a struggle that last for a day or a few weeks or a few months or a semester. it was a struggle of a lifetime. and i said then, and i say it even today, that you have the pace yourself a long, hard look, the long, hard struggle. and you have to come to that point and accept non-violence as a way of life, as a way of living. our struggle was not a struggle between blacks and whites, not a struggle between people, but a struggle between what is right and what is wrong, what is good, what is evil, between the forces of justice and the forces of injustice. in the movement, during the time when i was chair of the student non-violent coordinating committee, and in the movement itself in general, we call ourselves a circle of trust, a band of brothers and sisters. when someone got arrested with you, went to jail with you, someone beaten with you, almost died with you, you forget about race and color. brian: how d

and individuals like jim lawson, who had a sort of a baptism in the philosophy and the discipline of non-violence. we took the long, hard look. we believed that our struggle was not a struggle that last for a day or a few weeks or a few months or a semester. it was a struggle of a lifetime. and i said then, and i say it even today, that you have the pace yourself a long, hard look, the long, hard struggle. and you have to come to that point and accept non-violence as a way of life, as a way of living. our struggle was not a struggle between blacks and whites, not a struggle between people, but a struggle between what is right and what is wrong, what is good, what is evil, between the forces of justice and the forces of injustice. in the movement, during the time when i was chair of the student non-violent coordinating committee, and in the movement itself in general, we call ourselves a circle of trust, a band of brothers and sisters. when someone got arrested with you, went to jail with you, someone beaten with you, almost died with you, you forget about race and color. brian: how d

jim lawson. those guys. people at howard, we viewed nonviolence as a tactic. one of the things that the nonviolent people's philosophy, those people, they feel that you can appeal to men's hearts. my view, which i said to them, you might as well appeal to their livers because they are both organs of the body. there was nothing to that. you did not engage in nonviolence because the otherside had overwhelming force. there was not a sense that the other side would do the right thing if you told them because at the end of the day, the other side knew what it was doing to you better than you did. so it's not that they did not know what they were doing. they wanted to do it. so, we had huge, huge -- i mean, that was a source of early tension. i mean early, 1961, 1962. we did not believe in nonviolence as a philosophy. >> a parallel question, in the early years especially when things heat up in the south, what was your involving in the sense of what you might be able to expect from the federal government? >> slim and none. i think there were individuals, particularly

as a college student in tennessee, he signed up for jim lawson's workshops on the tactic of nonviolent civil disobedience. john lewis was getting something inside his head. an idea he couldn't shake. took hold of him. that nonviolent resistance and civil disobedience were the means to change laws, but also change hearts and change minds, and change nations. and change the world. so he helped organize the nashville campaign in 1960. he and other young men and women sat at a segregated lunch counter, well-dressed, straight back, refusing to let a milk shake poured on their heads or a cigarette extinguished on their backs, or a foot aimed at their ribs, refused to let that dent their dignity. and their sense of purpose. and after a few months, the nashville campaign achieved the first successful desegregation of public facilities in any major city in the south. john got a taste of jail for the first -- well, several times. but he also got a taste of victory. and it consumed him with righteous purpose. and he took the battle deeper into the south. and that same year, just weeks after the s

it became one of the most display movements because we had a young man by the name of jim lawson, wonderful teacher, really young methodist minister, attended vanderbilt university in nashville. he worked for the fellowship of reconciliation. he had traveled to india and studied the way of gandhi. dr. martin luther king, jr. would come to nashville during the spring of '19 60 and he would say the national student movement was the most disciplined, it was well organized and able there are accepting the way of nonviolence as a way of life, as a way of living. it was there many of young people like diane nash, bernard lafayette, ct vivian who is going to be on tasha honored by the president in a few weeks with the medal of freedom. these young people that not only go to gel and get arrested but they went on the freedom ride and they became organizers all across the south. and today many of these young people are still working for social change them for social injustice. >> host: december 1, 1955, 50 miles from your house near troy, alabama. what happened in montgomery, alabama, and what you re

you don't want to be jim clark. you don't want to be george wallace. you want to be lewis or lawson or king. >> brian -- >> and that, dear viewers, is why eugene and i are looking forward to jon's book. go ahead, gene. >> i just wanted to quickly mention one thing. tears did come to my eyes. reverend lawson actually name-checked my childhood pastor. he named a number of other figures around the south who have felt the call, the call of the civil rights movement. and one of the people he mentioned was the reverend matthew mccollum, who was pastor at trinity methodist church in orangeburg, south carolina, the church i went to at least once a week for my entire upbringing, who i remember sitting around my house when i was very young and the adults talking with great urgency about -- about things that i didn't yet understand. and what they were talking about were actions and planned demonstrations and organizing. they were talking about the fight for civil rights. so that was a personal moment that deeply touched me. >> let's not forget the word "fight." a