kevin courtney is in east london and is the general secretary of the national education union. good afternoon to you. we heard a little earlier from our education editor that you are calling for a school is to be closed in event of a national lockdown in england. we are expecting a national lockdown but why do you want that to happen? well, if the prime minister calls for a national lockdown of around four weeks, which is what we are hearing, we don't think it should be a half measure. to have the maximum effect we think schools should be pa rt effect we think schools should be part of that closure. we have been looking at data from the office for national statistics which shows that the biggest section, the biggest growth rate, is amongst secondary school pupils, where, according to the ons, our analysis of their figures, cases have increased 50 times since september. far higher than any other age group. and so to get the maximum effect of the lockdown it would be sensible to include schools in it. we all want children to be at school, but we also know that if we just take hal

to kevin courtney earlier he was making the argument that that should not happen. so a contrast between his views and those expressed by the children's commissioner for england. because that is the big distinction between the lockdown that we had gci’oss between the lockdown that we had across the uk in the spring and the one we expect the prime minister to announce in the next few minutes for the next month. because whilst nonessential shops will close with supermarkets remaining open, hospitality closing except for ta keaway hospitality closing except for takeaway is, schools, colleges and universities will stay open. and so the children, at least, next month, perhaps not as disjointed and disrupted as it will be for many others. crucially their education not disrupted. while we wait for the prime minister to come out into the briefing room... forviewers prime minister to come out into the briefing room... for viewers who are wondering how we have got to this position, whereby we are about to hear the prime minister announced a national lockdown in england, whe

you are talking to kevin courtney earlier he was making the argument that that should not happen. so a contrast between his views and those expressed by the children's commissioner for england. because that is the big distinction between the lockdown that we had across the uk in the spring and the one we expect the prime minister to announce in the next few minutes for the next month. because whilst nonessential shops will close with supermarkets remaining open, hospitality closing except for ta keaway hospitality closing except for takeaway is, schools, colleges and universities will stay open. and so the children, at least, next month, perhaps not as disjointed and disrupted as it will be for many others. crucially their education not disrupted. while we wait for the prime minister to come out into the briefing room... forviewers prime minister to come out into the briefing room... for viewers who are wondering how we have got to this position, whereby we are about to hear the prime minister announced a national lockdown in england, when just a few days ago he was insisting that

courtney, who says it will be felt self—defeating for the toa will be felt self—defeating for the to a national lockdown whilst the role of schools is a major contributor to the role of —— spread of the virus. it says the latest figures from the office for national statistics estimate that 1% of primary schools... i beg your pardon, of primary pupils and 2% of secondary pupils have the virus. and there is an echo from the university and college union calling for all teaching to move online. its general secretary says that the health and safety of the country is being put at risk because of this government's insistence that universities must continue with in person teaching. so thatis continue with in person teaching. so that is news just in from our education editor. we are going to talk to the lets talk now to dr alison pittard, who's the dean of the faculty of intensive care medicine. we are expecting this news conference from downing street. it has been delayed for a while but we are expecting a new national lockdown in england in response to the rise in cases and to the press

kevin courtney, from the national education union, thank you. looking at the comments, the programme spoke to marcus rashford and picking up on the thoughts kevin was making, you know, marcus rashford said himself in response to the mp5, he said a lot of them are insensitive and they have not been through it and it is one of the reasons why people listen so carefully to what he says, it is a lived experience, a lived experience. we will follow that very closely. it's coming up to 20 minutes to nine. you might remember paul harvey, who we featured on the programme a few weeks ago. he's a former music teacher living with dementia, who became an internet sensation after he composed a piece of music using just four notes. his performance touched millions of people, including some of his former students who went on to work in the music industry. breakfast‘s graham satchell has been to catch up with paul for a very special reunion. this is 80—year—old paul harvey doing what he loves best. paul was diagnosed with dementia last year. his memory is