joe: obviously bitcoin having a massive year. if you look at the bloomberg galaxy crypto index, and this has a bunch of them. around tells the story, 350 in june and july, around 900. that could be a chart of snowflake, palantir, u.s. steel, anything. anyway, it is really extraordinary. caroline: extraordinary and a perfect storm almost with talks of forever lower rates for longer, where you go if you do not want to be going into gold. let's get the announcements now. we have the celsius network founder with us, alex mashinsky. your perspective please on how risky it is at the moment. you are a company hellenes. people are currently -- you are a company who lends. people are currently giving you crypto, lending it out. leveragere is always in every system. i think the risk-reward is still saying there will be major returns. bestin is still the performing asset across all categories for the last 10 years, every year in a row. the risk-reward is great. of there is definitely a lot -- we already up over 100% this year. you should de

so before that, bitcoin was a market good, people were buying bitcoin directly from one another. people were mining bitcoin and keeping it with one another. only after that did they use it as a medium of exchange? so i don't see how it contradicts mieses. they are him and also doesn't contradict them because even though because it has no industrial uses in the outside world, because it does have one non-monetary use which is unique bitcoin to pay the transaction fees of the bitcoin network. and that's the only, that's the only unsensible network in the world. so, you know, if it's, does the suez canal have values the only place where you can go from europe to asia without having to go around africa. it's a scarce resource. and if you want to go through it, it's valuable. people pay for that. but what about this is being unimpeachable. the fact that big point separates money from the state and that would seem to be in the history of money the 1st time we've really had that. and i mean, you could say gold is not necessarily bad gold. 'd there are less a centralized by the state. yo

one of our experts on bitcoin joins us now. edward, why has bitcoin doubled? edward: it doubles and doubles again, right? bitcoin has surprised a lot of people. a lot of people have been writing it off and said at some point it is going to zero. i know, because at 1.i was one of them. we keep eating our words and bitcoin keeps surprising. there is ato accept pool of people out there willing to buy this stuff. ago about thecond supply-side, but what has been proven over the last year is that the demand side is equally stable. there are people out there that will buy this stuff. you keep -- tom: just because of time, you just explained the cross perfectly. who controls the scarcity here? responsibility to control the supply-side of this commodity? edward: the supply-side is stable and written into the algorithm. unless the miners get together and say they are going to change this, they will only ever be 21 million bitcoins. whatever the demand side that is out there is going to have to match up with the other side of the equation. francine: eddie, you haven't be

made thesten >> we decision to start allocating towards bitcoin when bitcoin was a $10,000. it's a little more challenging with the current price closer to $20,000. amazing over a very short period of time how big of a run-up we had. but having said that, our fundamental work shows that bitcoin should be worth about $400,000. caroline: $400,000. we had to call him up to make sure he was meaning it. yeah, talk to us about that figure. how quickly do we get there? seth: the way we are thinking about it, and my involvement in bitcoin started in 2012 and coinfund was founded in 2015. the way we are thinking about it is if you look at the pattern recognition of bitcoin's ouf -- 50,000 to cycles, $1 $250,000 looks like the base case. my background is in equities. when tesla stepped up from the $25 to $35 range to $350, then it consolidated for a while, i think we can pull forward the next cycle, bitcoin go from 500,000 to one million, then consolidate for a few years in that range. but i think we can actually get tehre -- there in the 2021, 2022 time frame. romaine: we hope to hav

non-monetary use which is you need bitcoin to pay the transaction fees of the bitcoin network. and that's the only that's the only unsensible network in the world so you know if it's does the suez canal have values the only place where you can go from europe to asia without having to go around africa it's a scarce resource and if you want to go through it it's valuable people pay for that but what about this is being unimpeachable the fact that big point separates money from the state and that would seem to be in the history of money the 1st time we've really had that and i mean you could say gold is not necessarily bad gold 'd there are less a centralized by the state your thoughts you know to be fair like. the gold under a gold coin standard before a gold. standard than the one when when people just using the physical coins i was pretty decentralized i think they the more decentralized the more you go back in history the more decentralized it was anybody could make their own coins and maybe the best example might be the islamic dinar of a decentralized currency because it was

dollars, but bitcoin. you've got to hear about the lolly app from the co-founder and ceo who will join us live. in the meantime, i need you to look at this right now. if the risk of a government shutdown cannot keep the markets down, why would a flurry of highly questionable economic numbers that just came out swamp stocks either? look at the intraday of the s&p. it is just off its session highs. a gain of 23 points is the high. right now we are still up about 17 but econo-santa frontloading a bunch of economic data ahead of christmas and his naughty list is quite long. number one, new home sales dropped 11% in november from the previous month. personal income falling 1.1% in november. core capital goods orders, which exclude aircraft and defense products, is basically a proxy for business investment, really disappointed. while it did rise .4% in november, october, it saw 1.6% rise. notables on the nice list. let's not ignore that. jobless claims fell from last week and the headline durable goods number ca

is bitcoin the one? for the investor out there who is my age, or people even older than me who want to get into navigate thisou massive world of coins? there's just so much out there. does it make sense to go plane, vanilla bitcoin, right down the middle? mike: yes. i just showed them paypal. the significance is a lot of millennials now, there's things called no savings accounts, so you can put your bitcoin and savings account and you are in 6% to 8% interest. 10 years from now, that means instead of having one bitcoin, you have two, obviously paying some tax. money has to flow that way until or unless it fails. right now, the crypto savings .ren't saving carol: as long as there's cheap money, investors are going to be seeking out different types of assets which is why it helps explain some of the run-up we have seen it bitcoin. with institutional money getting more and more involved, do we need to see other kinds of digital currencies out there to meet the demand ultimately? mike: i think the key differ

bitcoin at $400,000. scott minerd says the cryptocurrency's fair value still has a long way to go even as it pierces $22,000. just under one hour away from the start of cash trading in europe, let's take a look at futures this morning after another rally on the nasdaq and s&p yesterday. the dow was down. we see futures rising in europe. ftse futures up .4%. take a look at u.s. futures this morning after back-to-back records there. we see futures up again. s&p futures gaining .3% as our dow and nasdaq futures. let's take a look at car sales. we are seeing a drop of 14% on virus containment measures. i would not say that's unexpected. november car sales had a tough time since we had at least here in germany lockdown light. openealerships were still and i personally spent more time at car and motorcycle dealerships in the month of november than i have in other months because the bars and restaurants were closed. that's an alternative hang out. people, it was just a little bit too much to do. anna: matt goes

. >> we made the decision to start allocating toward bitcoin went bitcoin was at 10,000. it's a little more challenging with the current price closer to 20,000. amazing over a short period of time how big of a run-up we have had. but having said that, our fundamental work shows that bitcoin should be worth about $400,000. annmarie: turning us now to discuss this is dani burger. what fundamentals is he talking about? is this just the argument that central bank easing, the erosion of fiat currency, is just going to help bitcoin? is that the single final mental? dani: it has to be because -- fundamental? dani: it has to be because it's not tied to a country. it's difficult to assess in that regard. that's really exactly the argument that is starting to emerge, especially when we are in this environment where rates are so low. the fed seems to be signaling they were going to be keeping rates potentially low as well and not tying it to a specific inflation number but rather an average of members so if we continue to get this to basement of fiat currencies, all of a sudden, you

the best way to do it is convert it into bitcoin because bitcoin is going up more than 100% a year cash is debasing at 15% a year >> but people put money in cash because it is stable, and you're quite right, cash can lose value in real terms, but bitcoin can be a very valuable -- a very volatile asset as well, right? >> it used to be but it's looking much better by the month. bitcoin is the world's first engineered safe haven asset and it's running on the world's first digital monetary network everybody in the world, every institutional investor is looking for a safe haven and they're all losing faith in gold and they're losing faith in sovereign debt as a safe haven so, bitcoin is sitting at the right place at the right time. it's very appealing to anybody that wants to preserve shareholder wealth. >> hi, rahel solomon here. you say it's becoming less volatile and yet i wonder, do you think bitcoin still has a credibility issue? if so, how do we move past that or investors such as yourself move past that >> if you had asked me about bitcoin in february, i would have said bit what in ma

you bitcoin is just about as record high a rewards credit card will give you bitcoin instead of cash or miles. and mizuho claims bitcoin is boosting engagement. dan, great to have you with us >> thank you great being back >> going into bitcoin and allowing users to trade bitcoin, this is all about engagement what have you found in terms of how much more engaged users are because of bitcoin >> it's a great question the survey we did, we surveyed almost 400 people. surprisingly almost one fifth-fo them already traded bitcoin. so this is a huge number 65% of them actually want to use bitcoin as a currency. but the key thing is not the bitcoin revenue which is minimal, it's the higher engagement turns out those who trade bitcoin are more than three times more likely to engage with the paypal app you use more product, use it more frequently, which enhances p paypal >> is this cause and effect or coincidence? the people who trend to trade bitcoin tend to be more digitally savvy and willing to engage the app in all the different ways that you outline? is if because you trade bitcoin they ar

one of them is bitcoin. unders in washington are pressure to resolve their differences after a deadlock. if we don't get a stimulus package, it could be hurtful for some of the equities in the u.s. the ips talk,ning going public today. that is coming up next, and this is bloomberg. ♪ francine: economics, finance, politics. this is "bloomberg surveillance." i'm francine lacqua, here in london. the golden falcon -- is going public today on the nyse, looking to raise $300 million. next guest setting up the company to pursue deals in media and technology sectors. to be joined by macro mas r. congratulations -- by macro as our. where do you find value? where do you see the best opportunities in the next 12 months and two years? youood morning and thank for having me on the program. it is an exciting day for us. -- as you probably know, there are so many highly qualified ones in europe, including in the u.k. there about 20 -- all of them are what they call european champions that would make the list on the stock

carney of course is you know an establishment hack who is would be rightfully fearful of bitcoin because it is written or limits the need for central banks and he's a central banker through and through but remember he was the very 1st when he was the bank of england head of bank of england still in the last month or 2 of that he spoke at jackson hole in the united states. and he said that basically the u.s. dollar was past its purpose it no longer served a purpose as a reserve currency and his idea was for a digital currency which is i mean larry fink he was just talking about big point he was talking about decline and then said digital currency probably because he knows his audience is mark carney and mark carney is the one who wants to see you know the central bank digital currency right to be clear of the u.s. dollar in the british pound and the euro are currently digital currencies that they they are already digital currency so they say well do we need a digital currency that's like saying like oh you know it's raining outside is it really raining outside you know yeah it's our it's

using its cash to buy bitcoin. it's up 89% in three months, 2% today. the stock is on the smaller side with market cap of just $3 billion. >>> time for cnbc news update with scott wapner. >> here's what's happening this hour home depot agreeing to pay $21 million in fines to settle charges its contractors violated rules on lead paint removal during home renovation the biggest penalty ever. >>> in north carolina police say one officer was killed and another wounded when a carjacking suspect open fire on them the suspect also killed. the city's police chief choked back emotion when talking about the 25-year-old fallen officer >> there's no playbook for this. concord police department is comprised of a resilient bunch we're going to get through this. we're a big family >> tough story there china says its mission to bring moon rocks back to earth is a complete success the probe carrying the precious cargo landed in northern china this morning it is the first time samples from the moon have been retrieved in 44 years. t

would you ever touch bitcoin? >> well, i have touched a bitcoin, stuart. i have one of my family members, my son is in bitcoin since $200, so good on him. here is the thing susan talked about the institutional investments, but the institutional acceptance is also growing. we are looking at paypal accepting and providing trading services. we are looking at fidelity jumping into the fray, square allowing payment. we have much more-- this is a different game than we saw in 2017 which as susan said was just a lot of retail investors. now, this thing is broadening out as people are seeing it as somewhat of a scarcity play with a limited number that as the yacht currencies spread and we print more money that it is something that's going to appreciate relative to the dollar, the euro, so i think it has some more legs. stuart: congratulations to your son. that was a fine investment that young man made. thank you. i want to get back to the housing numbers because they were spectacular. housing stocks in november came in at 1.547 million units, that's how much of bu

bitcoin has to be denominated in something. if dollar is weakening, if bitcoin goes up. this year the dollar was strong, surprisingly for much of the year, but it's weakness will make people think how do you keep a unit and sound money. a lot of people thought gold would be that store. but for younger folks, bitcoin is the digital as set thset the to hold as store value >> tom, you have been on this for a while. do you think that will continue to be the theme in 2021 although we have seen nice gains lately >> yes for 2020 it was a year where institutional investors were trying not to do harm to their portfolio so not a lot of risk from financial institutions. secondly, equities have seen negative mutual funneled flows for nearly ten years so stocks have become the least favorite asset class for nearly a deck tad. -- decade. 2020 was a year where stocks were resilient i think the cyclicals have been unkillable we went through depression and should have seen bankruptcies. credit held. people like leverage because it ups future value so i think their multiples will surprise

boss viable quality of bitcoin so explain to the audience what what that. means and why i think it's all part well bitcoin is a new technology it's based on a protocol that was invented by situation a commercial and it's computer software and it's a protocol that governs how computers on the big quite network speak to each other and the question is do you view this is a piece of software he viewed as a piece of software anything out changing it upgrading and that's a good thing if you view it as a new form of money then you think we don't want to change this we want it immutable because it's its value proposition really comes from the credibility of the monetary policy can we really believe that there are only $21000000.00 because if we can believe that then it's enormously valuable so there was a there was a sort of debate in community in $21516.00 about what the klan was and whether it needed to scale like a piece of software and that ended up resulting in the queen networks slipping into 2 different parts one which sort of stuck with the old rules the im

we will speak about bitcoin and the underlying value of bitcoin. after the jobs report, lawrence kudlow from the white house. this is bloomberg. ♪ >> bitcoin might be a good investment of opportunity. i have no view of that. i am not providing investment advice. you want to see currencies being stable. stability has to be underpinned by policy. policy has to be underpinned by politics. coeure on a separate matter, which is how banking will look at digital transfers, digital currencies. is not looking at banking transfers. he is looking at the underlying value of bitcoin. ist of the operation here who is the who of bitcoin? bitcoin holds value, or if the denominator expands, and we see a devaluation of bitcoin, who is that who that will the fact that? i agree, it is not a currency. it is not a means of payment. it is not a means of account. it is not a stable store of value. it is not a currency. it is not even an asset. an asset has to have income for users. real estate provides you housing or storage services. utility.income as a in the case of

i think this is just the beginning of this bitcoin trade. >> dan, it's tim without the bitcoin dynamic in making those platforms that which people kind of use and manage a lot of their financial dynamics, would square be a buy? i am not sure this is in your core coverage. i have owned the company a long time i don't own it now i am kicking myself, but the rest of this is hard for me to fathom >> i think square is a buy we don't know what it would be without bitcoin. they have been offering bitcoin for a long time. we have seen square do well even at times when bitcoin wasn't growing so there were times. we peaked in 2017 and there was a time when bitcoin wasn't doing well, but square was doing well and the cash app was getting about 2 million down loads a month. i think bitcoin is more of icing on top of the cake for square. the ability for square to become the cash app for ultimately the neo bank >> dan, great for your thoughts. dan nathan, can you give us a quick trade? >> it's a tough one. papal with a higher market cap than bank of america these guys do a couple of things they have

bitcoins technology, or bitcoin's blockchain is the most secure of any other blockchain. it makes sense bitcoin would be the reserve currency of the crypto asset ecosystem. francine: cathie would've ark investments, emerging as one of the top stock pickers by focusing on innovators and those rescuing the world from the global pandemic. i'm glad to be joined by matthew winkler, our bloomberg news editor-in-chief. he just wrote a great piece on cathie wood and what her findings teach us. matt, as always, thank you for giving us a little bit of your time. why did you decide, for the last story of 2020, to focus on kathy wood? matthew: it is something -- cathie wood? prof. hunter: it's great to be with you -- matthew: it's great to be with you, francine. it is something we have done for a few years. we look at who is the best stock picker according to data compiled. bloomberg, sometimes it takes us longer than the last week of the here to determine that, because it was a close call. that was not the case this year. cathie was so far out in front, that she has the top three fu

heel of achilles bitcoin continues to be volatility. when other asset classes are seeing volatility being suppressed, it remains relatively high in bitcoin. do you see that coming down, and if we were to see that, does that make it a much more investable asset to a wider base of investors? antoni: i would argue that if it were not for boyd -- bitcoin's volatility, i would not be on bloomberg. it is a blessing or -- and a curse, but the fact of the matter is that it is about the investment strategy. andhave to bite the bullet be invested, and take the long term perspective, but -- because on any scale, bitcoin has outperformed any other asset, so it is about the right strategy, and here you have to be in for the long run. kailey: do you think it is a correlated asset? there has been debate about that given that bitcoin tends to do better on risk on days. antoni: human beings tend to find correlation to everything. every now and then it is correlated to the stock market. you can find all sorts of analogies, but fundamentally i think that

and i fund everybody in bitcoin and they pay their employees and suppliers and bitcoin and then i paid my investors and bitcoin because i would then require no accounting, no legal, no bookkeeping, no custody, it would all be done. liz: do you understand he has a telescope he looks so far down the line, to the man that tim partnered with on the concept at a fox business exclusive we welcome draper goren holm, welcome. we can show you the second bit coin price, up 61% since the 2018 low. if you look at the price is down slightly today but were talking $22770 of. does bitcoin history repeat itself and fall apart as it did three years ago tomorrow. >> no, i'm sure it's going to be a roller coaster but i don't see that happening. liz: why, what's at the heart of that, what do you know today that we did not know three years ago today? >> for years we've been screaming the institutions are coming, the institutions are coming in today your scene a whole different level, micro strategy we sell guggenheim that bitcoin should be a $400,000 right now in tim draper's price prediction of 250k by 20

bitcoin to copper all making big money. i will go in depth on a high school dropout and his revolutionary toaster oven. is this one of the reasons i'm cheering idea mania? close but no cigar. congressional leaders remain on the brink of a covid-19 relief package but there is still no deal. i will ask republican congressman andy barr what is holding all this. what the heck is the fed talking about climate change for? it is beginning to look a loot like christmas at least in the northeast. what happens to your christmas tree after the holidays? we'll bring you amazing story of one veteran putting them to great use. all that and much more on "making money". ♪. charles: you know there is some exciting stories in the investing world but most contentious might be the sizzling ipo market which brings back memories of late 1990s. the rush is back, get the excitement, remember the tech bubble and market crash. it dovetails perfectly with the notion pushed by wall street elites and financial media too many individual investors are

bitcoin is getting close to 22,000. guggenheim saying bitcoin should be worth 400,000. rishaad: let's take a look at what is going on in the time market. -- the thailand market. the 30 level against its american counterpart. this has been a huge headache for the central bank. authorities looking at ways they can stop this appreciation of the currency. nifty opening flat as we await the start of the trading day. 10 year yields steady. the moment bonds at -- going to have a little bit of volatility as we get operation twist taking place in short while with 100 billion worth of rupees. talking about the bond buying purchase program, the fed sending a clear signal that it leaves no doubt it will keep on providing monetary stimulus until the economy no longer needs it. kathleen hays is here with more. the fed is going to keep on buying bonds until it is closer to its employment, which is crucial and inflation goals. optimism fromme jay powell. kathleen: as juliette mentioned, needsraders -- if the fed to do more, all it can do is do more on the bond of purchase front. they e

when you talk about bitcoin itself, i don't have a strong opinion on bitcoin. i'm not a strong believer in bitcoin. emily: why not? gary: it is a developing asset, potentially. for all the reasons it is a strong developing asset class, it may fail. remember, part of the integrity of an asset class or part of the integrity of a system is knowing who owns it and knowing who has it and knowing why it is being transferred. is it being used for legitimate causes? is it being used for good? or is it being used for illegitimate causes? is it being used in corrupt practices and corrupt ways? the bitcoin system today has no transparency to it. there are a lot of people that question why would you need a system that does not have an audit trail, integrity? you don't know who owns it. you don't know exactly exist -- you don't know exactly how much exists today. how much has been lost? how much has been third away on hard drives because they don't exist anymore? it lacks the basic integrity's -- it lacks the basic integrity of a real market. then, you have to get into the

why is it just bitcoin at the moment? why not other similar products not seeing the same gains as bitcoin over the last few months? >> it's actually not just bitcoin. the area has performed amazingly well this year. it was down at $100 at the beginning of the year so that is seeing tremendous returns. bigger piece of the ecosystem. we are seeing middlemen completely removed from financial contracts throughdefi which is happening. that's a success story that's in the process of a major upgrade. i think the future is externally um as well astheri bitcoin and it's something people should be looking toward if they want to get into the crypto space. guy: how significant is the regulatory risk? i think we will see more regulatory involvement. many regulators around the world especially in the major markets have come up with some sort of regime to regulate cryptocurrency. for others, it falls within the existing regulations. it's certainly not the wild west. it's not what it in 2011. regulators are getting more and more savvy. i

i bought my first bitcoin for $600. had i been a smarter person i would be sitting on a caribbean beach somewhere sipping a cocktail. i would've kept buying them when they went down to $235. i instead continued to work here. in any case the big focus has been the virus and the vaccine. u.s., it has the really hit markets to some extent. the ftse down 1%. one of the few indexes open for trade here in europe. to hearot helped continued bad news. with england being broadened and tightened. forget we still get some economic news today. it has been such a key metric for all of us. also more timely information when it comes to the labor market. it is the canary in the coal mine for her. indicator, those lockdowns have increased in the united states and around the world. to ouret's go over edward hammond standing by in london. one of the big concerns has been the vaccine isn't going to make things better right away. the u.k. was one of the first countries to really rollout the vaccine. heis johnson last night said is going to

been a wild ride historically speaking if you ever bought bitcoin in this time us really low chance of being in the minus 0 right now as we're nearing an all time high. everybody who ever bought because at least doesn't have a loss so the something and i would say yes most people most market coming to us are expecting bitcoin to go up because it's unprecedented you do not have another asset that performs just like it or has this tremendous. has similar attributes like that can so it's digital gold but also payments rails and it's basically money reinvented money reinvented at the base layer so everybody can use a gel whatever they want it's a tool we talk about the payment aspect of it has that gotten any better and other transactions have been sort of a weak point in the past pay pal however is big and situational back are now what we see. it has gotten better there have been tremendous efforts by the thousands of bitcoin developers to make it faster both on the protocol layout but also scaling it on. the off sort of 2nd layer there is a big effort on the way it's called the lightning

if you go all the way back to the first ever transaction with bitcoin, it was something like 10,000 bitcoin for two pieces. you could buy a lot of pieces with the cost of one bitcoin now. up to 29,000 earlier today. talking to people in the industry today, i think the next round number that we are looking for is the $30,000 level. it would be interesting if we are able to get to that before the end of 2020. the view thatng, we might be near a top for bitcoin. that is something we've been talking about throughout the month. it hits another milestone. it just keeps right on climbing. the question is, how much further can this run for bitcoin go? look. what is the biggest risk faster that is -- factor that is emerging in this? eric: there's a couple things that we are keeping an ion at the moment. first off, on a technical indicator basis, bitcoin is looking a little bit overbought. strength is well into overbought territory. there is wider regulatory concerns, as we've discussed. there's a lawsuit from the fec .gainst arrival coin while that's not related to bitcoin, there's always that fear

he's a long-time ceo of micro strategy and a bitcoin bull. he replied to musk if you want to do your shareholders a 1$100 billion favor, convert the tesla balance sheet from dollars to bitcoin. other firms in the s&p 500 would follow your lead and in time it would grow and become a $1 trillion favor musk asked if such large transactions are possible. saylor said they are, he bought over 1 billion in bitcoin recently let's talk about this with mark yusko. just another day on twitter a couple of billionaires talking about putting billions of dollars into cryptocurrencies. i said they're not currencies. they don't act like a currency i've seen, now people are talking about making balance sheets with them what's your take on this >> look, a billion here, a billion there. pretty soon we're talking real money. you know, when you think about it, the biggest currency we've had in history is gold it has been a currency for 5,000 years, a perfect storer of value. bitcoin is reallydigital gold. it's a digital version of a perfect store value. what micha

jewels, have you got any bitcoin -- juliette, have you got any bitcoin? juliette: you were talking about somebody getting a tattoo with bitcoin. might hold off on that one. it has been an underperformer since the 2016 vote but since october, it has risen 17% on vaccine optimism and on the optimism there would be a deal which was finally reached so now, we are hearing a lot of analysts saying it's time to go value hunting. the end of it could be an interesting trigger to rediscover the ftse 100 and over at goldman sachs, they say they remain positive with the market looking cheap. they are overweight the ftse 100 relative to the stoxx europe index and a tilt towards value. that value trade also plays into what artemis is looking at. they are looking at financial and energy shares as a rebound and recovery in dividends in 2020 one as well as companies are more confident to move away from this year's extreme prudence. you can also see some upside in the likes of the banks and home builders that were hit by the ongoing negotiations. as you can see on my chart

bitcoin does often get compared to gold. bitcoin is up almost 300% this year. which is a great year for gold. it's nowhere near what bitcoin is doing. the s&p 500 is up about 15% this year. not comparable to bitcoin. it does go into the conversation about whether bitcoin is a storage of value or a speculative asset. at times, it's either one or the other or both. certainly for this year, it's been the subject of great speculative returns but also has been seen as a value against the calamity of the global pandemic. eric, thanksht, so much for joining us. our cross asset reporter, he covers bitcoin. we told you about lufthansa, saying the ceo gave an interview saying they cut costs more than expected. they have $10 million in the quality -- sorry, $10 billion in liquidity. the only used $3 billion in package they got. the start up almost 5%. up almost 5%. the delivery helping drive the dax to a record high. the embarrassed maker of cyberpunk after lawsuits down another 2.7% due to all of those bugs and glitches. this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪ matt: welcome back to b

a revived push for a bitcoin etf. with an etfship that tracks the cryptocurrency finally off the ground, greg. greg: let's check the markets. pretty quiet. not surprisingly on new year's day. perhaps traders will take it and investors will take it after the year we've had. losses at the end of march, it has been made up particularly on the nasdaq, and the action is rather flat today. we've had a little strength in the bloomberg u.s. dollar index measured against a basket of currencies. the longer-term story for the year on the u.s. dollar since we got over the turmoil in march has been a downward trajectory. a lot of people said they expected further u.s. dollar weakness into 2021. in canada, we have substantial news. a big story brewing in the province of ontario in the past hour. the finance minister of ontario, the largest province in canada, resigning after it came to light in the last several days that instead of being here in the province during the pandemic under the emergency, he was actually at saint barts on

nouriel roubini on bitcoin. scathing over the underlying value of bitcoin. what will be the catalyst that will expand the supply of bitcoin, providing a lessening s value?in' the only advantage of bitcoin is its supply cannot be easily manipulated. it's supply was limited by the founders. my argument against bitcoin is not the one i have against other cryptocurrencies that are being .ebased day in and day out it is rather that it does not have any fundamental value. calling them cryptocurrencies is a misnomer. it has to be a scalable means of payment and a stable store of value. there is plenty of academic evidence that the price of bitcoin has been manipulated. wash trading, front running by exchanges. it is widespread. coin is one stable better whose supply has increased. every time the price of bitcoin falls -- there is good reason to believe it is manipulated. tom: because of time, i want to cut to the chase. this believe that we can develop an adult cryptocurrency business andout crime, without scam, without the lack of transparency within the global fi

i know plenty of sensible people who own some bitcoin. i think it might be a game of financial musical chairs. you can puck your own narrative. -- puck your own narrative. if you want to buy some, you can buy using paypal or cash app or robin hood. there's no etf yet. there's a story in this week's barron's where we talk about some publicly-traded options, something called grey scale bitcoin trust. if you want to know what's next for bitcoin, where it's headed next, i can maybe narrow it down for you a little. i know you know scott minor,-on the program earlier this year -- he was on the program earlier this year. he just came out with a forecast he thinks it's headed to 400,000 based on its scarcity relative to gold. and we have a contributor at barron's that says if you do this analysis where you compare the trading volume with the number of bitdowns that have been mined, he thinks it's worth $12,000. so you're either going to make 20 time your money from here or lose half your money. i hope that's helpful, jack. jack: that's super help