caller: liz cheney is switching it. liz cheney will go down in history as a profile in courage. i reread -- i looked down into "my open grave" last night by robert kennedy. he wrote the story of edmund g ross. she did a brave thing. she did the right thing. this party, which i use to advocate. i cast my first ballot for richard nixon. i can no longer call myself a republican. a party cannot be built on lies. our country cannot survive built on lies. host: how did you vote in 2016? caller: i voted for hillary. host: that was the first time you voted for a democrat? caller: with one exception, i voted for dukakis. host: an 2020 you voted for? caller: yes, i voted for joe biden. host: you voted for republicans along the way and you call yourself a republican? caller: every election, not just the presidential election. i vote down ballot most of the time, 90% of the time. i have voted republican. i have given money to republican candidates. i can't support this. this is wrong. this is fundamentally wrong. host: let's go back to the microphone. >> i have had the conference meeting. i

cheney's platform and what she's going for, i'm not defending liz cheney at all in any level, i'm simply saying she voted with president trump alongside his policies and proposals more than 90 times. so, you know, when you're talking about what is actually ringing honestly here, everybody knows the voters, republicans voters know that this caucus vote was simply about one thing, getting rid of liz cheney because she was calling out what she felt was a big lie and that was that the election had been stolen and all you need to do is look at the next step and that is that representative elise stefanik was chosen and she had voted not many times with president trump yet she flipped and simply said as she did just an hour ago on fox news, on sunday morning futures, donald trump is the leader of the republican party. howie: right. now, this is big news, ben in the star tribune. let's put the front page of the wyoming paper. is the media interested here in the battle with cheney, trying to put her at the center about a thousand times greater than a house leadership fight is for lots of average

war for liz cheney. how does that practically play out in the halls of congress? >> she is still decidedly in the minority of the minority of the house republican conference about this very issue. she will be an outspoken voice. she'll get a lot of attention when she speaks. but there are so few members of the house republican conference or senate republican conference for that matter who are going up against donald trump, even the ones who are uncomfortable about the former president. they don't want -- they recognize his power with the republican base. she has a significant challenge if she's going to try to use this in a way to bring -- to try to take -- prevent the former president from re-emerging in the political scene given the support within the republican conference. and one reason why even perhaps both sides didn't want to have the voice vote today. or the secret ballot vote today. even if she did -- the reporting i have done over the last several days in talking to a wide array of members, a l

liz cheney has remained unrepentant. here she is yesterday. >> millions of americans have been misled by the former president. they have heard only his words, but not the truth. remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar. i will not participate in that. i will not sit back and watch in silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule of law and joins a former president's crusade to undermine our democracy. >> we heard from liz cheney again today. >> i will do everything i can to eure that the former president never again gets anywhere near the oval office. we have seen the danger that he continues to provoke with his language. we have seen his lack of commitment and dedication to the constitution. i think it is very important that we make sure, whomever we elect is someone faithful to the constitution. >> here is jeff flake in the washington post saying the party no longer cares about the truth. this is amy eds, a former republican lawmaker in liz cheney's home state of oil me. >> it'

that is why liz cheney's critique is not just distracting. it is about whether a political party and its supporters embraced or at least tolerate an imagined reality and the men who is creating that. for his part, the man in the middle of all this is at his resort in mar-a-lago in florida and is still keen to talk about the election. tmz shows a video in which mr. trump makes a eech at a wedding. we hear him rail against biden's iran policy and the election result. and then he says the couple are beautiful. there's another video where the men who was president in january stands in front of a small crowd and turns to some familiar themes. >> let's see what they find. i wouldn't be surprised if they found thousands and thousands and thousands of votes. after that, you'll watch pennsylvania, georgia, michigan, wisconsin. you're watching new hampshire. they found a lot of votes in new hampshire just now. this was a rigged election. everybody knows it. anchor: with that, mr. trump wrapped up, the crowd waited for the band and the former president'

far less conservative than liz cheney. but she has been called a star by the former president and certainly has returned the love. one activist who spoke to cnn anonymously said, quote, that is all that counts these days. here she is again on steve bannon's show. >> my vision is to run with support from the president and his coalition of voters. this is also about being one team. and i am committed to being a voice. and being a clear -- sending a clear message that we are one team. and that means working with the president, and working with all of our excellent-republican members of congress. >> by the way, the president, she is referring to, is the former president. she talks of him, as though he did not lose the election. and that is what it takes to rise in the republican ranks, these days. buy into the big lie to borrow that phrase from an anonymous conservative, that's all that counts, these days. perspective now on the message this sends and the congresswoman spreading it from someone who served alongside her, kathle

liz cheney. very good catching up with you. >> there grow, two very different directions for the gop. and apparently the republican party has made its choice. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, may 6th. along with joe, willie, and me, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei is with us. and member of the "new york times" editorial board, mara gay joins me this morning. we may as well dive right in. this morning, republicans are another step closer to pushing out congresswoman liz cheney from her role as gop conference chair. house minority whip steve scalise now publicly backing congresswoman elise stefanick to replace cheney in the position. a spokesperson for scalise said, quote, house republicans needs to be solely focused on taking back the house in 2022 and fighting against speaker pelosi and president biden's radical, socialist agenda. and elise stefanick is strongly committed to doing that. a spokesperson for cheney responde

liz cheney will try it. we'll see if she can convince voters that she's got the right path. >> donny, this has been painted as a split in the republican party, but the truth is, it's not even really a split. there's liz cheney, adam kinzinger, who we'll talk to live here, there's mitt romney and a handful of others and everyone else who's going along for the ride on this lie. >> it's incredible. you look at those three congressmen. and there was another tweet from a congressmen from north carolina yesterday, that sums up what i'll call the sophistication of the republican party and goes, nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, good-bye, liz cheney. that's where they are. what's so ridiculous is, what they should be doing is saying, there's long gas lines in this country, the jobs report succeed last week, we've got violence in the middle east, we've got a hacked pipeline. like, they do have talking points and they just can't get it. one other thought about the lie that they're talking about, i want to revisit

liz cheney is not going to go away. she is going to continue to stand up for what she believes in and as long as she is there and as long as she has a microphone, she's going to be able to -- she's going to say i'm not going to go away. i'm going to continue to talk about this because i believe it threatens the american way of life. >> yeah. mia love, jamie, david axelrod, thank you. moments ago, liz cheney on the house floor. >> today we face a threat america has never seen before, a former president who provoked a violent attack on this capitol in an effort to steal the election has resumed his aggressive effort to convince americans that the election was stolen from him. he risks insciting further violence. millions of americans have been misled by the former president and heard only his words but not the truth as he continues to undermine our democratic process sewing seeds of doubt about whether democracy really works at all. i am a conservative republican, and the most conservative of conservative principles is re

for liz cheney. this is the beginning. if she loses this vote, this is the beginning of a schism that you will not be able to pull back together in time to coddle a majority. what you can do is what abraham lincoln counseled, which is the premise that right is what makes might. do what is right and build a majority off of that. >> mike madrid, thank you. >> thanks, don. >>> liz cheney talking tonight about how the lies threatened our democracy, but are they hurting our standing around the world? >>> plus tensions between israelis and palestinians reach a fever pitch with air strikes from israel and abarrage of rockets from gaza. i got this mountain bike for only $11. dealdash.com, the fair and honest bidding site. we sold an ipad worth $505 for less than $24. a stand mixer for less than $20. a 4k television for under $2. a macbook pro for under $16. as well as a playstation 4 for under $16. and brand new cars for less than $900. dealdash.com offers hundreds of auctions every day. all auctions start a

liz cheney will stay in the party. i imagine she will be a voice of conscious and reason but not a voice of leadership in today's republican party any longer. >> you saw mitch mcconnell going out of his way, referring to joe biden, referring to socialists and people taking over. he wants no part of this as a lot of republicans wish it would not be playing out in their party. how does it affect the republican agenda. mitch mcconnell said his job is to stop the biden administration, but he has problems on his own bench. >> he absolutely does. you know, what i find is so fascinating about mitch mcconnell, he does not do anything without a plan. he always has a master plan that we have not seen until a couple of chess moves out. just as he avoided impeaching or allowing enough time to impeach donald trump while he was still president and have that trial, just as he did that, he is side-stepping the issue now. what does he really want? he wants to retake the senate. he wants more republicans elected. by hook or by crook don

this isn't liz brown, this is liz cheney. a name that is engrained in the political lexicon, in the american electorate. i'll tell you, when you're dealing with cheney, this is not some helpless person, this is not someone who's going to be intimidated. this is not someone who is going to live in fear. this is someone who has a lifetime of legacy, friends, allies, supporters, a professional network to tap into to make life very difficult for kevin mccarthy, for donald trump, and she's made it very clear she's not going to go quietly into the night. she's not stepping aside from the podium, microphone and the stage. in fact, because of all of this and the way this has gone down, she has an even bigger microphone now and in their haste to silence and purge liz cheney, what kevin mccarthy and the house republican party have done is amplified her. they have liberated her to now stand up, speak forwardly and lead this charge against them, and i think that they are going to rue the day that they kicked her out of leadership and rem

your thoughts on liz cheney? caller: liz cheney should remain in office. all she did was speak the truth. there are a lot of controversial issues. liz cheney like everyone else was elected to serve all of the citizens in her district. in this case in her state. regardless of whether or not they voted for her. she still remains a conservative republican. she is being honest and trying to work with the president even though she does not agree with his policies to get things done. host: we talked about elise stefanik, the likely successor. a bit of a profile piece on her in the washington journal this morning. one of the youngest women ever elected to congress is set to lead after raising her profile as a prominent defender of president trump during his first impeachment trial. she would succeed ms. cheney as the only woman in the house gop leadership and would hold a position that puts her in charge of the messaging effort. she has an assignment that gives her a policy profile similar to that of ms. cheney, a military hock. she has been a vocal supporter of

and my question is still, what does liz cheney do next? and again, we talked about this a little earlier in the broadcast, is there a constituency there, specially in the wake of insurrection that could support some growing movement that exists outside of the trump party? they could call it the republican party. they could call it something else because as we know the republican party is now, in fact, the trump party. that is what we're going to see happen today. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us. don't go anywhere, "morning joe" starts right now. >> dr. fauci, do you support hin funding of the lab in wuhan. >> senator paul, with all due respect, you are entirely and completely incorrect that the nih has not ever and does not now fund, gain a function research in the wuhan institute. >> government scientists like yourself who favor gain of function -- >> i don't favor

do you have the votes to oust liz cheney? >> everyone in leadership serves at the pleasure of the conference. as you know, there is a lot at stake. democrats are destroying this nation. we've watched the greatest expansion of government and the socialist liberal agenda. we watch to them destroy our borders. we are hundreds of thousands -- we have hundreds of thousands coming across, we are catching people on the terrorist watch list. you have destruction of our energy. got the largest missed jobs report in more than two decades. did it -- to defeat nancy pelosi and the socialist agenda, we need to be united. we need to move forward, and that ice -- that is what i think will take place. >> is this just her ideology, that she is unable to get over being never trump and hindering her ability to discuss that very message that you just laid out? >> any member can take whatever position they believe. that is what the voters vote on the individuals, and they make that decision. we are talking about a position in leadership. we are i

conservative by her voting record than liz cheney. liz cheney is the more conservative candidate the difference is that, elise stefanik has agreed, even as a moderate republican to be a lapdog for donald trump and that is the single qualifier that makes for eligible to be elevated in the republican conference just as they prepare to kick out liz cheney. >> this is a very interesting point for people who don't know, elise stefanik, i she has voted not a long lines of president trump more often than most republicans have not, she has taken stands that definitely are to the left or not to the right of liz cheney. carol leonnig, i want to read a little bit from what liz cheney wrote today, she wrote an op-ed in the washington post and she is not shining away from her position she right i am a conservative republican, and the most conservative of conservative values is reverence for the rule of law. at the heart of a republican is a commitment to the peaceful transfer of power among political rivals in accordance with the law. president ro

liz cheney is a hawk on china. she's a hawk on russia and she understands what a propaganda triumph it is for them to have a former president leading his party in this direction and she's saying no, she's putting her hand up. she's refusing to go along. >> jamie, i mean, there is a long history of crass and craven politicians who have toadied up to bullies to remain in power, and over time, they don't usually end up so well, certainly at least not in the history books. congresswoman cheney, what happens to her now and i mean, at the larger picture, you know, for democrats watching and thinking well, this just doesn't really matter much because this is, you know, a battle happening within the republican party. we are a two-party system and we only work as a democracy when those two parties at least function on the basis of reality and one party does not completely believe a lie. >> from my conversations with her and from some of her colleagues who also think that donald trump is a danger to the country, what they te

the big lie, that liz cheney ref refused to support. and for that, republicans threw her under the bus. the vote held behind closed doors. so none of those cowards in the gop would have to answer for those votes. but, if they thought that they would silence her, they were sure wrong. liz cheney stepped up to the microphones, and said this. >> i am absolutely committed, as i said last night, and as i said just now to my colleagues, that we must go forward. based on truth. we cannot, both, embrace the big lie and embrace the constitution. i will do everything i can to ensure that the former president never, again, gets anywhere near the oval office. we have seen the danger that he continues to provoke, with his language. we have seen his lack of commitment and dedication to the constitution. and i think it's very important that we make sure, whomever we elect, is somebody who will be faithful to the constitution. >> i said it last night. this is a profile in courage. liz cheney refused to back down, even though she knew her party would pu

the gop voting to push out liz cheney. at the same time, former trump officials will be setting the record straight on the election and on the insurrection as well. what do you expect at tomorrow's hearings? >> what we expect, don, is for more truth to be told. the former acting secretary of defense is going to talk about his concerns about sending troops up to deal with the insurrection on january 6th because he was concerned that it may provide some sort of indication or, you know, a lack of understanding about what their responsibility was and people might rmisinterpret it a a military coup. that's how concerned they were about the level of violence that could happen on capitol hill. we'll also hear testimony from top level officials in the trump justice department that are going to once again emphatically say there was just no evidence of widespread fraud throughout the country on election day. this, despite the fact that republicans continue to pedal that narrative over and over again not just here in washington but i

we shouldn't be talking about liz cheney. we should be talking about pushing back against the radical biden agenda and this is all a distraction from our ability to be able to do that that's why she will likely be replaced this week. we'll sort it out. i don't know who will replace her. that will be a discussion the house conference will have this week, we'll take up because at this point it's necessary to do so. chris: i've asked you two questions, congressman. why are you unwilling to discuss her criticism of president trump? >> i'm not. and as a rank and file member of the house republican conference, liz cheney or anyone else in our conference can stay focused on other issues, unreap lated to us win -- unrelated to us winning back the majority in the midterm election. i know the belief that i have, chris, that a majority of our conference a has that she has lost focus on the single mission we have to win back the majority, to push back against the radical biden agenda is the reason she needs to be replaced. as a rank and

so, liz cheney represents every person in this state, like her or not. >> liz cheney has proved herself to be a lousy representative. >> and we spoke with a lot who are saying that. >> here's what liz cheney wrote, the republican party is at a turning point. history is watching. whose side are you on? liz cheney or donald trump? >> donald trump. if she runs again, i will vote for her opponent. >> reporter: conservative groups rank liz cheney more politically conservative than donald trump and she has a life long pedigree with a father who served as vice president. a national republican group has put up this billboard thanking liz cheney for, quote, defending the constitution. it all matters little to many in this very red state, who consider their wyoming representative a turn coat and their ex-president from new york city a hero. >> i think she needs to go. >> how come? >> just because i don't think she did the right thing for the republican party. >> she says that donald trump is lying about the election being stolen. >> i agree. >> agree with what? >> i agree that the election was st

get started today. >>> house republicans are set to oust liz cheney, congresswoman liz cheney from her leadership position tomorrow. matthew dowd is the former chief strategist for president george w. bush. he likens what is going on in politics right now to black mold. here is what he writes. he says, quote we have a black mold momentum in america today. the rise of anti-truth, anti-democratic voters, politicians and some media is a dangerous concern for hour house of democracy. it is a dangerous concern for our house of democracy." it is a huge cause of concern for the long-term health of our republic. this black mold start out in the dark as a few spores of lies and conspiracies and hate. it was left unattended for too long and now must be dealt with in a serious and clear way. and matthew dowd joins me now. matthew, profound words everyone should listen to. thank you, sir. good to see you. black mold. >> good to see you, don. >> black mold is disgusting and toxic, possibly deadly. what's your remedy? how do we save our democracy? >> well, thank you. well, just like with black mold,

does liz cheney do next? and again, we talked about this a little earlier in the broadcast, is there a constituency there, specially in the wake of insurrection that could support some growing movement that exists outside of the trump party? they could call it the republican party. they could call it something else because as we know the republican party is now, in fact, the trump party. that is what we're going to see happen today. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us. don't go anywhere, "morning joe" starts right now. >> dr. fauci, do you support hin funding of the lab in wuhan. >> senator paul, with all due respect, you are entirely and completely incorrect that the nih has not ever and does not now fund, gain a function research in the wuhan institute. >> government scientists like yourself who favor gain of function -- >> i don't favor gain of function research in china. you're saying things that are not correct. >> you're fooling with mother nature here. you're allowing super viruses to be c

congresswoman liz cheney

this fight with liz cheney is not about policy. it's about doubling down in the election lie because all these people looked at the landscape and in the aftermath of 2020 and they said we don't have a better idea. so we are just going to double down and stage a bs-voting rights fight to try to restrict voting to stop these people from coming back in 2024. it is just a -- people cannot think of any other coalition to build. so they just keep stripping people away. and so, you know what? go ahead. try to win without the liz cheneys, the mitt romneys. i don't know. nascar, major-league baseball. i mean, i don't know who is left in this tent, besides matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene. and, kevin mccarthy, if you want to go down that road, just give up the gavel because they hold the power, anyway. >> congressman riggleman, is this -- you know, tom friedman has talked about this as a threat to dmemocracy. certainly, liz cheney says it is. do you agree? >> i agree. going forward, how are we going to have a policy discussion based on

this fight with liz cheney is not about policy. it about doubling down on the election lie because they looked at the landscape and aftermath of 2020 and just said we don't have a better idea so we'll double down and stage a b.s. voting rights fight to try to restrict voting to stop these people from coming back in 2024. it is just people cannot think of any collision. you know what? go ahead. try to win, i don't know nascar, major league baseball. i don't know who is left in this tent besides matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene and kevin mccarthy, if you want to go down the road, they hold the power anyway. >> congressman, tom freedman said this is a threat to democracy. liz cheney said it is. do you agree? >> i agree. if you look forward, how will we have a policy discussion based on facts? where do we go from here? i had this argument with somebody in a committee meeting. i said i'm telling you now there is not satan worshipping child blood sucking people. they said you're being paid by sorrows and you're changing sexual orien

does liz cheney stay? leaf the congress to try to lead the movement? >> yamiche, mccarthy is a lot of things. i think david jolly listed some of them. he's proven himself today standing before the sacred structure that is the white house that you cover a liar. watch what he said today and then i've got the tape. >> i don't think anybody is questioning the legitimacy of the presidential election. i think that is all over with. we are sitting here with the president today. so from that point of view i don't think that's a problem. >> so kevin mccarthy is the reason that the big lie took hold. mccarthy and mcconnell are the reason that i think it's -- i want to get the number right but i think it's 70% of republicans who don't believe what he just said. among the republicans 70% do not believe that joe biden is legitimate. only 23% do. i want to ask you about the white house's sort of tolerance for flagrant lying from the republican leader of the house. still going to work with him on infrastructure? >> well, in an era that has been traumatic as it has be

same with liz cheney. the answer comes back, no, this is about former president donald trump and what happened during the election and what happened on january 6th. >> let me ask -- congress is dealing -- the house republicans have this on their plate. this is obviously expected to happen as early as wednesday. there's a lot of other stuff on the do list for lawmakers as they come back into town, into session. starting with infrastructure. you had senate minority leader mitch mcconnell who is shifting where he is on this. he said, i would support something like a $600 billion plan. now it's like six to $800 billion. is that a sign there could be compromise? is this just more two parties talking over each other? >> it depends on who you ask. there are a variety of opinions amongbelieve it's possible they could get a bipartisan deal with democrats and -- they insist that they try. there are progressive lawmakers in the house and senate who say this is a fool's errant. republicans are not going to be on board

get started today. >>> congresswoman liz cheney is ousted tomorrow. matthew dowd, here is what he writes. "we have a black mold moment in america today. it is a dangerous concern for our house of democracy." it is a huge cause of concern for the long-term health of our republic. this black mold start out in the dark as a few spores of lies and conspiracies and hate. it was left unattended for too long and now must be dealt with in a serious and clear way. matthew dowd is joining me now. thank you, sir, good to see you. black mold. >> good to see you, don. >> black mold is disgusting and deadly and toxic. how do we save our democracy? >> just like with black mold, the way to get rid of it is you have to acknowledge you have it and not hire somebody to paint over it and not realize the fundamental problems. it may means tearing out some walls and fundamentally dealing with the problem. that's the only way we do it. as voters we have to do that and we have to see it clearly. we have to acknowledge it and we have to hire contractors who are elected offici

but nevertheless, liz cheney is not backing down. we are hearing from multiple sources that she is not going to step aside from her leadership post. she is going to have that vote just as she called for that vote in february and that she ultimately survived. she's willing to have that vote again. but this time almost certainly, she is going to lose that vote. we are hearing also behind the scenes from multiple sources that elise stefanik is consolidating support. she is emerging as the clear favorite. the republicans are lining up behind her. members of the republican leadership are supporting her as well. so you're seeing a rapid turn of events from liz cheney being the number three republican but growing increasingly isolated amid her war of words with the former president and calling out the president's election lie. now republicans say that is becoming a distraction for their efforts to win back the majority so she's going to be pushed aside almost certainly probably next wednesday, and then after that elise stefanik will emerge

liz cheney refuses to lie. that's one of my republican senate colleagues said to me following my impeachment vote, i wouldn't want to be a member of a group that punished someone for following their conscience. congresswoman cheney appears to be following her conscience and kevin mccarthy suggested it may cost her. what is the latest you're hearing about where things stand between mccarthy and cheney? >> it appears that the republican party surprise, surprise caved to donald trump and kevin mccarthy thinks he has the votes to push liz cheney out and he is, i heard, pushing for elyce to replace her, who, anderson, is again not a surprise a trump loyalists. a little while ago i spoke to someone familiar with liz cheney's thinking about all of this and i was told quote it is not a surprise. she knew this was coming. she is not afraid of the consequences. the stakes are too high. translation, she is ready to move on, this is about principle over politics and i'm told she will not resign, she will wait for the vote.

and liz cheney, they want to be rid of liz cheney because she's forcing them everyday, when she speaks the truth everyday, she forces these cowards, her fellow colleagues, to look in the mirror everyday and look at themselves. but, again, kevin mccarthy who i served with, he knows the drill, he knows the deal. he wants to be speaker. and he knows where republican voters are at. it's absurd, but it's really tragic. >> joe walsh, thank you so much for joining us this morning. appreciate it. >> thanks, guys. >>> so this is very much connected, tomorrow facebook will announce its decision on whether donald trump will remain suspended from the platform as he continues to push the big election lie. he did it just yesterday. joining me now cnn's senior media reporter oliver darcy. oliver, explain to me how facebook will make this decision, this board, and also, you know, are they going to consider just over the last 24 hours he has put out stuff that just blatantly false, the same type of stuff he did that got him suspended in the first place? >> yeah to be clear, john, facebook is not making

that's not going to happen now. >> liz cheney, the last time liz cheney and mccarthy appeared at a press conference together was more than two months ago when they were asked about whether or not donald trump should speak at the conservative political action committee event and what happened there was mccarthy said he should and liz cheney said he shouldn't. and then since then, they have not appeared together. things got incredibly tense and ultimately leading to her being ousted from the house republican leadership ranks. of course, she still has her seat in congress. she has to face re-election next year, but not having that perch where they could drive the party's agenda, the message and showcase some unity was important for republicans who say they want their team in line here and now they picked someone who has been in line with donald trump. >> so she said, liz cheney said last night, in that interview on fox with bret baier that she's not going to run for president. now a lot of people who have run for president have said they are not. but it was a pretty clear answer from her. m

when democrats quote liz cheney more than republicans quote liz cheney, or fundamental job and primary job is communication, it's a battle between them and i think we will see some fireworks next week. >> laura: when you have cnn realizing that just because trump was out of office it doesn't mean the voters have abandon him. when is cheney going to get to that? >> we have been asking what is the future of the republican party post trump? the answer is it is not really post trump. we are still in the trump era in the republican party and if liz cheney is in fact ousted in a week that really solidifies this. that tells us pretty clearly where the party is, where they believe the energy is. >> laura: what are they afraid of? he had 74 million votes. 74 million. despite everything that he faced. >> he got more votes than any republican candidate in the history of our nation and yet, as we look at this, liz cheney says that donald trump has no role in the republican party. i can tell you it is the most coveted endorsement that is out there. he continues to shape, as you mentioned, the race

capitol where congresswoman liz cheney is expected to speak any moment now. her office sent out a statement saying her speech would start around 8:00 p.m. likely, her last speech as house republican conference chair. now, with that happens, we will go liveher remarks. tomorrow it's expected to go to vote to lose her position, a battle between her place in the party but the former president and his false allegations about voter fraud which have continued to be em brbraced by the vast

liz cheney and elise stefanik, liz cheney daughter of the former vice president, and elise stefanik who went right from harvard to working for the george w. bush white house. elise stefanik has absolutely 100% embraced the trump big lie, floated several conspiracy theories. one of them has like a quarter of the ballots in fulton county, georgia, being fraudulent. no evidence for that. it's a remarkable turn of events. >> it's not clear if she actually believes these lies or is lying on her way to power. abby, this morning, 2016 presidential candidate carly fiorina, very conservative republican, said she's very disappointed in her party and believes sexism is at least partly at play. take a listen. >> men are complaining it's like having your girlfriend cheering for the wrong team. really? or she's not humble enough. what that means is we would like a woman so that we like. we want a woman. but we don't want the woman to speak up. we don't want the woman to have an opinion of her own. we want the woman to go along, to get along with all the men. of course it's sexist. >> what do you thin

one, i think he wants to make an example of liz cheney. two, i think it's signaling a message to donald trump, he's got your back. and, three, i think they're really out of ideas. i mean when this is, you know, your incoming message coming into a 2022 midterm election, you're not talking about really joe biden's record all that much. this is the main story. i think it's because you want it to be. >> and, john, i wonder once liz cheney is gone, then what? you heard miles taylor say this isn't the end. the beginning. you do see it that way? >> political parties change when they get beat soundly and consistently. republicans have lost the house senate and presidency in the last several elections. but they still have a chance of winning back the house. obviously what miles is doing, what liz cheney is doing is not hiving off a big chunk of the republican party. sort of an ice cube off an iceberg. what it does is clarify what's happening to the republican party. jeff flack, the former republican senator outlined it. he said it's not about a sin

you know, i think liz cheney. she's my classmate, we disagree on a lot but i don't question her patriotism or her motives, and i don't question her willingness to tell the truth. and in this particular case i think they've probably elevated her stature in some ways and given her more prominence to speak her mind. at the same time they are doing just complete acrobatics to try to explain themselves on a day like today where i think at the white house kevin mccarthy said no one questions the legitimacy of the election -- which, by the way is probably the right way to view the election. however, that causes his members consternation who still maintain that there was widespread election fraud. and so i don't know exactly what is going on with the republican party except that we and people like myself, we just have to stand for principle. and we really have to put our principles above all else. >> the hearing got heated today. >> i noticed. >> i want to play this moment for you because i want your reaction. >> she requ

that liz cheney keeps bringing it up. donald trump has brought up the election some 20-plus -- 24 times since he's been off social media. he's put out a statement claiming election fraud. and the person who seems to be obsessed with relitigating the past is donald trump, not liz cheney. >> i think the problem for the republican party is that they really -- since 2016, they have not figured out trump's appeal and haven't figured out how to govern trumpism without trump. that's great for donald trump because he wants this to be all about him. he doesn't want trumpism to exist without him. the problem with the party is they can't figure out what it is that got him elected, that made him popular, so there's this struggle. for the conference, the question we have to ask ourselves is why doesn't liz cheney speak for the conference? isn't that a big problem for the republican party? the answer, of course, it is a big problem and one they need to sort out. >> hallie jackson, elise stefanik voted against the trump tax bill. forget

cheney and someone like liz cheney and mitt romney. >> let's talk to the woman who is poised to inherit the earth, at least the republican caucus chair womanship in the house. elise stefanik, former, romney, ryan and bush accolite and according to your reporting, unrecognizable to her old friends. tell us why. >> elise stefanik's transformation mirror-s the transformation of the republican party. i covered her in my book and spoke to her when i first wrote it and talked to everyone who i could find who knew her and one of the things that struck me back then, she was widely respected by both her republican colleagues and by democrats. including people she had run against. people told me she was highly intelligent. highly ambitious and had a deep sense of integrity. and now looking at what has happened and looking at her embrace of the quote unquote big lie. many of the people who have known her her entire life told me two years ago, they were impressed with her sense, with her morale character and her sense of patriotism and honor are now frankly embarrassed for their. somebody told me t

i don't think liz cheney understands that. not just with respect to her comments on trump, her attitude toward the drift of the party. a new center-right movement that has populist elements is one that can easily become the majority. host: trent is calling from louisiana. good morning. caller: we are quick, i have to apologize for using a bad word last time i was on. i'm sorry. i got a little upset. host: thank you. caller: thank you. i am the patriarch of a large family. lots of grandchildren. half of them are military, half of them are educators. i feel like i have a micro civil war going on in my family. we have to touch each other very gently these days. the long game of the trump movement, i'm trying to tie in with that letter the french retired generals wrote to macron, that they might get involved to stop a civil war in france. last week some of our retired generals sent out a letter saying that they see america careening toward socialist marxism. last year i bought two books. one was by buckley, "american secession," a

now he succeeded in ousting liz cheney. he goes down to hold a meeting at the white house with president biden, and he wants to play the role of a serious political leader who is talking to a president. so he says nobody is questioning the election. it just doesn't -- the words that come out of his mouth don't mean anything more than, you know, carving something in the sand and a wave then comes by and washes it away at the ocean. this is somebody who wants to become speaker of the house, he's acting in ways he thinks will make him speaker of the house but you can't take the words he says seriously. >> john harwood thank you, very succinct i appreciate it. congresswoman liz cheney booted from her post in the house, the house republican leadership, but she hasn't been silenced, saying she intends to be a leader in the battle for the soul of the gop and to fight to stop the spread of what she calls trump's destructive lies and hiss efforts to unravel our democracy. joining me to discuss, the veteran journalist dan rather, and

cheney's point, and that's why it's such a dangerous moment for liz cheney to speak up, and kinzinger, and other republicans to say this isn't enough. how it works out, say the republican party, join the democratic party, that's another question. this can't be permitted. this is the danger. hair not an old historical record that needs to be set straight. this is an ongoing attack on our democracy and constitution. >> yeah, i don't speak for any industry beyond our one hour of television this night this is easy jargon and cuba have when you have what we are actually talking about. to our guest, our great things as always baratunde thurston, bill crystal we will do this again thank you for staying up with us tonight. coming up, us parents across our country prepared to vaccinate children as young as 12, our next guest, a public health expert who was a pediatrician by training, essentially here to tell us tonight to expect big controversy to follow. roversy to follow. like these before loading them in the dish washer. but new cascade platinum changes all that. new cascade platinum, with

and now, people, like liz cheney -- liz cheney, of all people? liz cheney. dick cheney's daughter. on the ropes because she refuses to promote the big lie. because she is telling her party exactly what it doesn't want to hear, and that is the truth. i'm here to tell you the truth, people. that's all. that's it. sources telling cnn that cnn's jamie gangel that the congresswoman, the number-three house republican, said this today in an off-the-record interview with former-house speaker, paul ryan. and i quote here. we can't rebuild the party or the conservative movement on a foundation of lies. we can't embrace the notion the election is stolen. we can't whitewash what happened on january 6th or perpetuate trump's big lie. it's a threat to democracy. and that could cost liz cheney her leadership position in a republican party, that is tearing itself apart, right now. the congresswoman and a handful of other republicans, on one side. on the other? more and more members of what used to be the party of lincoln. now, the party of a disgraced, twice-impeached, one-term president, who lost

>> clearly, it's not liz cheney right now. we have largely become a post policy party and really much more focused on a culture war. i think the clearest evidence of that is, you know, look who is going to most likely replace liz cheney. by every measure, liz cheney is more conservative than she is. you go through every issue. there is no question that she has more support. it's because she fights those culture wars. she stands by donald trump. that's obviously the big one. and, you know, i wish that there was some bigger goal that we are working towards. you know, joe biden is talking about dramatically remaking the scale and roll of government and republicans are largely focused on things like dr. suess and mr. potato head and imaginary meat bands. these are things that what john boehner is talking about let's wait up. let's focus on the big issues are but obviously we're so far beyond that because most of what republican voters want to hear more than anything is just do you support donald trump? it's as simple as that. >> m

we know that liz cheney is not a liberal. i mean, these people are standing up for facts when it comes to the election but they're in lockstep on republican policy. this doesn't have going to do with policy. it has to do with one man's brittle ego and the fact he cannot understand or comprehend that he lost and lost handily in 2020. and it's, you know, it would be a lot easier, and i think you could accept this, and obviously we're not like members of congress, it would be a lot easier just to report the news the way a lot of our colleagues on other channels do which is, he says this. she said that and now we're moving on, right? but we take a minor risk, we're not -- we don't face voters. we face viewers. and say, no, this is true. there's such a thing at empirical truth. taxes, abortion, guns. but facts. this is true. members of congress are elected to do that and they are taking too many of them are taking the easy way out. and it's sad. >> jake, what liz cheney did last night was go even a step further and say there are c

liz cheney refuses to lie. as one of my republican senate colleagues said to me following my impeachment group, i wouldn't want to be a member of a group that punished someone for following their conscience. but that is sadly what the gop seemed determined to do. punish liz cheney for refusing to go along with trump's lies for her impeachment vote. and as mccarthy -- that the congresswoman is not on board with the gop's message, you got to wonder exactly what their message is. what are their policy proposals? what's their plan for america? what is it? what are they about? policy. how are they helping you? what are they doing for you? the gop has been struggling to come up with any kind of coherent message at all. what they been standing up for lately? you really want to know? i have to say this every night and it's the truth. mr. potato head, dr. seuss. >> first they outlaw dr. seuss. and now they want to tell us what to say. >> i am sam, i am sam. sam i am. that's sam i am. that's sam i am, i do not like that

my colleagues have heard from liz cheney. she opened the meeting defending herself and essentially said let the chips fall where they may. our nation needs this republican party as a party based on truth so we can shape the future. if you want leaders that will enable and spread his, donald trump's destructive lives i am not your person. you have plenty of others to choose from. that will be their legacy and then she said and this is an answer to a question we've wondered for several days now, which is what will be her next move. after today i will be leading the fight to restore our party and our nation to conservative principles to defeating socialism and defending the republican and to making the gop worthy again of being the party of lincoln and then she opened the rest of the meeting with a prayer. you see liz cheney, one more opportunity and she had an empty room last night and a full room in the republican conference this morning throwing down the gauntlet and saying essentially if you want to fight this, i will be her