politicians can be like madison. and professor akhil amar, thank you. and thank you new york historical society. >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday, american history tv documents america's story and on sunday, book tv brings you the latest nonfiction books and authors. and funding from c-span2 comes from these companies as well spark light. >> the greatest place on earth is your hometown and it's our hometown, too, at spark light we're facing our challenge. and that's were sparklight is working to keep you connected. we're doing our part so it's easier to do yours. >> sparklight along with these television companies support c-span2 as a public service. ♪♪ . >> guest: . >> your opinion matters. and with the video competition. be part of the conversation a documentary that answers the question how does the federal government impact your life. your five to six minute video will explore a policy or community. and c-span's competition. a grand prize of $5,000. entries will begin to be rec

jefferson and madison team up. hamilton washington team up marshall finds a teammate, a great story but teams in america worked particularly well when they combined north and t south end massachusetts and virginia in particular so marshall is virginia, story is massachusetts. about all the other virginia, massachusetts teams. james from massachusetts and patrick henri virginia. first president and vice president george washington and john adams and they work together in 1776 and so did jefferson and adams. adams is vice president and the thomas jefferson, one of jefferson's vice president and he's also one of madison's vice president so the north and south team of massachusetts and virginia is important in the answer to question, he's the last founder, he strengthens the judiciary, he's a washington man, a hamilton man continental list he finds a partner from another region, they together an impressive team just as washington and hamilton and madison and jefferson. >> i think it's fair to say both of us if we are n

and yes madison outlives marshall by a few years. but madison has been out of office since 1817. he dies in 1836 and marshall predeceases him. marshall is in office as the chief justice for 34 years or so. he is the last founder and he is continuing to have an impact into the 1830s were madison -- franklin dies in 1790. and washington dies in 1799 does not see the new century hamilton is killed in a duel in 18 oh four. famously adams and jefferson are going to die on the 50th anniversary of the declaration of independence. throughout all of this marshall is in power and what is he doing? he is vindicating marshall's .ision he is the great nationalist caring for the continental flag of george washington under whom he fought when he served at valley forge. if you work at valley forge with washington, hamilton as marshall was you understand we need money, we need to support the troops. adams wasn't there, jefferson wasn't there, madison wasn't there they don't feel it in their the way it marshall does. he has eight nationalist and cares for the vision has immense respect for washing

and yes, actually madison outlived marshall a few years madison is been out of office since 1870 any dies in 1836. and marshall predeceases him of marshall is an office as the chief justice for 34 years or so printed so he is the last founder and that he is continuing to have an impact into the 1830s where hamilton, i'm sorry hamilton, franklin eisenstein t90 buried and washington dies in 1799. in hamilton is killed in a duel in 18 oh four, and famously the die on july 4th and the 50th anniversary of the declaration of independence but throughout all of this, marshall is in power and what is he doing, he's vindicating partials vision, the great nationalist caring towards the constant issue list and geoe washington nick, under whom he fought, with whom he served at valley forge if you are at valley forge with washington hamilton and marshall was, you understand it we need money we need to sports troops rated and we don't we are dead. and adams was not dead and jefferson was not there. they don't feel it in their bones with marshall does. nationalist the cares for the vision and an imm

and yes, actually madison outlives marshall a few years but madison has been out of the office since 1817. and he dies in 1836, and marshall predeceases him but marshall gets in office as a chief justice for 34 years or so, he is the last founder and that he is continuing to have an impact into the 1830s where hamilton or madison - so franklin dies in 1790. and washington dies in 1799 predict and hamilton is killed in a duel in 1804 and famously adams and jefferson are going to die of 1826 rated 50th anniversary of the declaration of o independence predict throughout all of this, marshall is in our what is he doing it, is vindicating marshall's vision. he is the great nationalist that continental list of george washington with whom he fought and served at valley forge if you are valley forge, with washington the, and hamilton and as marshall was, you understand you need to money, and support the troops. if we don't we are dead. and adams was not there and jefferson was not there in medicine was out there and they don't feel it inon their phones like marshall does. nationalist, an imm

madison does not cite biblical text. but those of you who have some familiarity with the bible certainly can hear biblical overtones in what he's seeing, even a cursory look at the way madison puts things, it's apparent that the central ideas -- shah has already -- derived from christianity and can be traced to the bible as it had been understood by christian thinkers in earlier centuries. for example, madison says religion is a duty we owe to our creator, the great commandment of jesus. you shall love the lord your god with all your heart, with all your soul, and all your might. luke, thou shalt worship the lord your god and him alone shall you serve. religion is a duty we owe to our creator. second, he says that the business of government and that of religion must be kept separate. we maintain that in matters of religion, no man's right is a bridge by the institution of civil society, and again, this nice phrase, religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance. the government has no knowledge of what religious people do.

yes madison outlives marshall a few years that madison has been out of office since 1817 and then dies in 1836 and then marshall predeceases him that he is in office as the chief justice for 34 years or so he is the last founder that he is continuing to have an impact into the 18 thirties franklin dies in 1790. washington dies in 1799 and hamilton is killed in a dual in 18 oh four and adams and jefferson will die with the anniversary of the declaration ofni independence but throughout all of this marshall is in power and what is he doing? he is vindicating marshall's mission carrying forward george washington and her home he fought serving at valley forge with washington and hamilton then you understand we need money and to support the troops and if we don't we are dead they weren't there they don't feel it in their bones the way he does he has immense on —- immense respect for washington and for hamilton who was a brilliant lawyer use those legal ideas he is a nationalist figure to be a good listener i talk about the relationships so jefferson and madison team up he is a loner teami

the which is where james madison lived. so james madison knew about what was happening and some of the people he knew at the time where in jail in cult pepper, which is right up the road. so he had a firsthand knowledge of the harassment of these baptist clergy and their followers. he was only in his early twenties at the time. he had begun to get interested in politics, as his father was. he was elected to a committee to prepare a declaration of rights. this was my friend here tim shaw has been talking about. the original draft was written by george mason, but a contemporary of madison and jefferson. and the language is very significant. he said that all men should enjoy the fullest toleration -- toleration in the exercise of religion according to the dictate of conscience. the fullest toleration in the exercise of religion according to the dictates of consciousness. madison, he was only 24 years old, thought that was not adequate because toleration is a form of indulgence. but the ruling authorities grant people who they

jefferson madison and hamilton. madison and jefferson were allies anti-federalist and hamilton was their nemesis is the editor was was. there are two big issues they are trying to figure out the one is where should the capitol city be in the other how do we build it and should it be a simple federal town or glorious romanesque capital? the second argument jefferson calls for the dinner party. he and madison are going to team up and compete with hamilton. but what happened at the dinner party was they would resolve these issues and decide basically on where the capitol would be and hamilton would end up playing jefferson and madison like a guitar. he got everything he wanted. virginia said we are not paying our debts. the south didn't want to pay their debts. hamilton won the debt to be paid so he surrendered and said you don't have to pay your debt. little did jefferson and madison know if the south was not going to pay its debt what that means is the federal government can come in and assume the debt under the trea

madison is interesting and thcomplicated in many ways. they all were, quite frankly. so the party on june 20th, 1790 as they wrap in the musical, the room where it happened. so two factions, the jeffersonian and hamiltonian faction. the less government, the more government, the south, the i north, to make it simplistic and not digress.ag the prominent for jefferson's when they butted heads, hamilton typically carried the day because of washington. washington was more ideologically aligned with hamilton, adams and federalists but washington saw hamilton as more of a son, more as the father figure he never really had and hamilton is washington's right-hand man as they say in the musical. washington would decide with hamilton including on neutrality as opposed to jefferson's involvementt on behalf of france so june 19th, the day before, jefferson is waiting outside of washington's's office and he hes a great commotion and washington and hamilton have a fight. both washington and hamilton have volcanic tempers. part of the legendary stoicism can be contributed to a lifelo

so he plays jefferson and madison. ultimately jefferson wants a simple federal breakdown of only a few acres, so hamilton agrees they could have a design contest. jefferson to chair the committee that picks the winning design. it appears jefferson submits his own design anonymously for a little breakdown and then fix it. what jefferson did know was even though he said here's the design, when it went to washington, washington said nope, we're going to pick my romanesque capital, so there you go. the residence act of 1790 solidified or codified the spring compromise. the capital would be in virginia but ten years later, in the meanwhile it would be in philadelphia while the have to build this city would eventually be named for george washington, and that's the residence act of 1790. the boats on a lot of these difficult measures fail and you use george washington playing political chess match. when washington wanted to flip a vote, you bet he did. washington strategically picked a couple of members of congress, met with

so madison and jefferson don't want to pay back their debts, they're not going to contribute. and what they didn't realize by them not contributing, the federal government would have to assume the debt and who wanted that? hamilton. hamilton was the treasury secretary and made him one of the most powerful. and if they have debt we need a bank and debt assumption so hamilton pretty much plays jefferson and the brilliant madison like a guitar and gets all he wants. later there would be another interesting exchange that jefferson, pursuing his idea of a little simple federal town of one story brick buildings, jefferson proposes that we have a design contest and how democratic is this, the public submits their designs and jefferson proposes, i'll serve on the committee that picks the winning design, in fact, i'll chair it. thanks, tomment he picks his own design basically probably submitted anonymously. but what he doesn't realize when he takes that to hamilton and washington, and washington pretty much says, nope, we're going with mine. and bringing it to a close. washington has

he and madison will team up and defeat hamilton. what would happen at that dinner party was they would resolve all these issues. they would decide basically where the capital would be and hamilton would end up playing epperson and madison like a guitar. he played victim and got everything he wanted.on the debt virginia said we're not paying our debt the south didn't want to pay the debt . hamilton wanted the debt to be paid so he surrenders and said you don't have to pay your debt. little did jefferson and madison know if the south is not going to pay its debt what that means is the federal government can come in and assume the debtunder the treasury and use the secretary of the treasury ? hamilton. hamilton would become one of the most powerful americans. hamilton wanted a stronger federal government. by hamilton giving up the fact that virginia would never pay its debt was a guarantee that hamilton would get a strong federal government, a bank and a strong treasury so hamilton gets whatever he wants even though he plays that he'sl

i did a book on james madison, there's nothing like that. god knows he never wrote about it or said anything about it but washington again, is not ashamed and the one episode in particular involved his stepdaughter who was cursed with epilepsy as a young girl dies at the age of 15 in a family dinner, a horror. and he does something i hadn't noticed anybody else pick up on, he's got a lot of plans the next three months and cancels all. he stays at mount vernon stays with martha. he and martha lied to one another, they have never done that. a great athlete and i think she probably can help keep up withhe them in their get old and patient it wasn't the best. he broke with her and it not heroic, not more than you would help anyone would but he did it. it was a picture of a real man. >> that's an important insight, one of your contributions, one of your many peeling back the layers of the onion which as you said at the outset, i've always o.said this, it comes across as this statute so i felt it was the hardest to know but stories like that provi

jefferson and madison team up, hamilton and washington team up and marshall finds a team. and the team works particularly well when they combine more than south and in particular massachusetts and virginia. okay? so marshall is virginia and think about all the other ones, virginia and massachusetts, rhetorically the first president and vice president are going to be george washington and john adams and so did jefferson and adams is vice president and eldredge is another massachusetts guy and so the answer your question is if the last founder, he strengthens the judiciary, he is a washington man, continental is, and he finds a partner from another region and together they make a very impressive team just as washington and hamilton do and just as madison and jefferson do. >> i think it's fair to say. >> if we are not exactly members of the federalist party, we are sympathetic to it. but it's a very good word for thomas jefferson. >> i agree with what you said and after all, he is who he is. so what did he have those precious? >> well, like a young person, i adored jefferson

so jefferson and madison against hamilton. they have to resolve the couple pressing issues, just to among them. but will the location of the capitol. and one is the debt is is called federal debt assumption. so where should the b-uppercase-letter? now hamilton went to the north at one point new york, jefferson southerners wanted in the s south. it was darn near nonnegotiable. the south could walk if they don't get it in the south jefferson and madison and their beloved virginia believing adams and others to joke.. only inte swans. to jefferson and madison surprised it seems that, with secondary sources, jefferson would t later write and reimagine version of this meeting trying to put himself in favor of light. he duped him it was the worst moment of his political life because he did not like hamilton. hamilton agrees the capitol goes in virginia and the south. jefferson and madison could not believeve it. ends of the potomac. now the question of death, theti south, virginia did not want to contribute toward the debt assumption

jefferson and madison against hamilton. they have to resolve a couple of pressing issues, just two among them. one would be the location of the capital. and the other one would be the question of the debt as they called it, federal debt assumption. where should the capital be? hamilton wants it in new york, at one point in the north. jefferson wanted it in the south. the south would walk if they didn't get it in the south. jefferson and madison wanted their beloved virginia. leading adams and others to joke only in virginia are all geese swans, right? so to jefferson and madison's surprise, it seems that -- we don't have a lot of sources for this. we have secondary sources. jefferson would later write a reimagined version of this meeting trying to put himself in favorable light. he would later admit that when he realized hamilton duped him, it was the worst moment of his political life because he didn't like hamilton. hamilton agrees that the capital goes in virginia, the south, jefferson and madison couldn't believe it, bu

madison is an interesting guy and a complicated guy in many ways and they all were frankly . ben franklin or most perhaps among them so the dinner party on june 20 1790. as they wrapped in the musical, the room where it happened. so you have 2 factions, the jeffersonian faction and hamiltonian faction, the less government, more governments, the south and north just to make it simplistic. the problem for jefferson was whenever he and hamilton butted heads hamilton typically carried today because of washington. washington was more ideologically aligned with hamilton, but washington saw hamilton as more of his son. hamilton seeing washington as a father figure he really never had and hamilton is washington's right-hand man as they say in the musical. washington would side with hamilton including on neutrality which hefleshes out in this book . so in june 19 the day before jeffersons waiting outside of washington's office house and he hears a great commotion and washington and hamilton have a fight in both washington and hamilton had full tempers. part of washington's legendary s

madison is not going to agree that which madison are you talking about is done the same thing that madison says in 1786 87 he doesn't say in 179697. he's different. and are you assuming that they're divinely inspired and they'll say no to that not to that? but um and if you want to argue about what the original intent of a particular piece of legislation is you are claiming to be historians. very few lawyers are trained in history. and lawyers tend to argue on on the one hand or on the other hand basis because of their training and in the in the legal system that we developed. you're a prosecutor or your defense attorney? and you you shape the evidence according to your client. if your client and you suppress evidence as much as possible against the cut you as a historian you can't do that. okay, and therefore it seems to me the originalist the originalist decision that i find most questionable and this will upset many of our listeners is dc versus heller 2008. it's the decision on the second amendment. and the decision by justice scalia who is misophon lifetime member of the national rifl

in the dinner party was between you can see the picture, jefferson, anderson hamilton and madison and jefferson were allies and federalist in hamilton with their nemesis in the federalist. two issues are trying to contend with. where should the capitol city b and the other was how should it look at how do we build it into to be a simple brick federal house or a glorious well and asked capitol the second argument was assumption, we are in debt after the war and so jefferson calls for the dinner party. he and madison are going to team up and going to defeat hamilton predict what would happen at the dinner party is they would resolve these issues and they would decide basically, the more the capitol would be in hamilton blood with jefferson and madison he played them like a guitar. and he got everything he wanted. so virginia said were not paying our debt in the south did not want to pay the debt hamilton one of the to be paid. so he surrenders and says okay, you have to pay her debt, little did jefferson and madison know that if the south is not going to pay us, what that means is a fed

madison was not in on that part. but madison was very committed to all of the things that we just talked about. they were the two kind of young hotshot lawyers in the continental congress pouring over the articles of confederation to find ways to expand the power, the federal power. you know madison was committed to federal power, and to nationhood. everyone knows that. only later did the differences between hamilton and madison become so overwhelming. the enemies that hamilton had in the 17 eighties are group of people whose names are not super well-known. but they represent a movement, a populist movement. which had its own ideas about finance, if i may use that word, about money, american wealth, accountability to the people. and they meant themselves, the ordinary people. these are people frequently without the vote, which of course you had to have property to have the vote, and to run for office you had to have even more property. they wanted the vote, they wanted the vote for white men were talking about, they

and i did a book on james madison and others never wrote about it or said anything about it. but washington, again, is not ashamed of it rated but the one episode in particular involved his stepdaughter. who had epilepsy as a young girl died at the j age of 15. and it's hard any rights moving letter about it to one of his in-laws. and then he does something that i hadn't noticed anybody else pick up on which was he got a lot of plans for next three months and he canceled them all. he stayed at mount vernon and he sees with martha and martha ride together and they had never done that. washington was a tremendous horsemanan a great writer and athlete. and think you probably couldn't keep up t with him and he would get a little impatient and just wasn't the best. but in this time period, he stayed with her any road with her and some heroic. if not more than you would hope that anybody would do but he did it read and was a picture of the real man. and it meant something to me. sue and that is an important insight is i think that one of your contributions, one of your many of this

for those of you familiar with madison or madisons, you can see it there in several ways. manuscript gets tucked into a washington express pocket as he assumes in the second floor of the balcony, there we go look at all the people down below. george washington president of the united states of america we might call a joint session and then a delivery to the address. several people in attendance wrote in response the repressions the several notice there might be sweat or two on the brow and a quiver in the voice and shaking of the hands after this order question. i don't think it ever felt particularly comfortable that is for sure. but he did it and we talked about why but one of the legacies, i think he thought he was absolutely essential to the republican government that power shows itself and speaks itself it let's itself be known this is in the european deal unless it's a french kind of thing or a ritual in the house of commons or something, in any case it stands up with manuscript in hand maybe it shakes a little bit but this is pretty intense moment and it delivers th

madison, what you think of this and madison seems to have taken one look and said that's not going to happen. the two of them lend themselves to the task, so for those of you familiar with madison or madison pro craft, you can see it at work there in several ways. it's the manuscript then gets tucked into washington breast pocket as he assumes the office itself. he takes the oath of office on the second floor out on the balcony there. look at all the people them below and long-lived george washington, president of the united states of america.to and then walks into-- we might now college joint session and then delivers the address. several people in attendance a wrote they are sort. some notice that there may have been a bead of sweat or two on the brow and maybe a quivering voice, shaking of the hands. that's the orator question. i don't think ever felt particularly comfortable but, he did it. one of the legacies of the why is because i think he thought it was absolutely essential to the ethos of republican government, that power shows itself, that it speaks itself, that it lets itse

jefferson and madison do not want this to back death are not going to contribute. by them not contribute to the federal government would have to assume their debts and who wanted that? hamilton. hamilton was a treasury secretary makes him with the most powerful people in the government. the federal government assumes we need a bank we need a currency we need strong treasury everything hamilton wanted an federal debt assumptions of hamilton pretty much glazed jefferson and a brilliant madison like a guitar and gets all that he wants but later there be another interesting exchange jefferson pursuing his idea of a federal town one story brick building jefferson proposes a design contest how democratic is this the public submits the designs for jefferson proposes i will serve on the committee that picks the design effect i will chair. he picks his own design basically which is probably submitted anonymously. but what he doesn't realize is when he takes at the hamilton and washington, washington pretty much says nope were going with mine. bring it to a close washington

of congress is taking it up a notch, or should i say down a notch. 26-year-old junior brown shirt, madison cawthorn of north carolina who from the start made it clear that his purpose in washington is messaging, not legislating is not only pushing the big lie, he's issuing a warning that would be better described as a threat while promoting false claims of election fraud at a local gop event, cawthorn raised the prospect that if republican candidates lose future elections, the answer might be for their supporters to get violent. he even suggested that if things don't work out at the ballot box the way republican voters want them to, even he might take up arms against his fellow americans. see for yourself. >> i'll tell you, anybody who tells you that joe biden was dutyfully elected is wrong. if our election systems continue to be rigged and continue to be stolen, it's going to lead to one place, and it's bloodshed, and i will tell you, as much as i am willing to defend our liberty at all costs, there's nothing that i would dread doing more than having to pick up arms against a fellow ameri

we would definitely use it in madison. we have a similar project engaging disconnected youth in our conservation parks in particular which we have increased under my administration, but similarly, we have our green power training program in the city of madison where we have hired, we hire trainees and train them on solar installation, led light conversion, and we are hoping to expand further into some of the green infrastructure work that we are doing, forestry, etc., our trainees are 73% people of color and 73% women, and these folks can go on to careers in these industries, but what has happened is we are hiring them into our public works department, diversifying those departments and setting them on behalf of a good family job. i am proud of this program and i am very -- i think every city in this country could do something like this in addition to state and private companies as well, and i think we need to be investing in our youth and workforce in a way that is sustainable and grows these good green job careers. rep.

that was the best _ did you make of the madison? that was the best race _ did you make of the madison? that was the best race i _ did you make of the madison? t�*isgt was the best race i have ever seen, they dominated and blew the rest apart. what makes law at such a great cyclist and competitor? grit. cyclist and competitor? grit, determination _ cyclist and competitor? grit, determination and _ cyclist and competitor? grit, determination and never - cyclist and competitor? grit, | determination and never give cyclist and competitor? (it, determination and never give in or never give up. has determination and never give in or never give lip-— determination and never give in or never give up. has she always been like that? she — never give up. has she always been like that? she was _ never give up. has she always been like that? she was always _ like that? she was always competitive _ like that? she was always competitive from - like that? she was always competitive from a - like that? she was always competitive from a very l

madison and jefferson for allies and by federalist hamilton was their nemesis as a federalist. two big issues trying to contend with. one is, where should the capitol city? the others had republic? glorious capitol. the second argument was the assumption, we were in debt after the war so jefferson calls for the dinner party, they are going to team up and defeat hamilton. what would happen at the dinner party was they would resolve all these issues and decide basically where the capitol would be hamilton would end up playing jefferson and madison like a guitar. he played victim and got everything he wanted. he said we are not paying our debt. the south didn't want to pay the debt so he surrenders and says okay, you have to pay your debt. if the south is not going to pay its debt, what that means is the federal government can come assume that under the treasury and who is the secretary of the treasury? hamilton. one of the most powerful americans and if hamilton wanted a stronger federal government, jefferson wanted we could federal government. they pretty much guaranteed hamilto

madison, what you think of this? madison seems to have taken one look at it and says that's not going to happen. the two of them bend themselves to the task. for those of you familiar with madison or madison's prose craft you can see it at work there in several ways. it's that manuscript, and that gets tucked into washington's breast pocket as he assumes the office itself. he takes the office out on the second floor out on the balcony there. livingston, delivers it. look at all the people down below. long-lived george washington president of the united states of america. that's where we might roughly call a joint session, then delivers the address. several people in attendance wrote in response there sort of impressions. washington seems, so you will notice that there might have been a bead of sweat or two on the brow and maybe a quiver in the voice and a shaking of hands, back to this orator question. i don't think he ever felt particularly comfortable. that wasn't his zone, for sure. but he did it, you know, and wh

madison what you think of this? madison seems to have take one look at it said that is not going to happen. : : : you familiar with madison or madisons, you can see it there in several ways. manuscript gets tucked into a washington that get stuffed into his hpocket. he takes them out on the second floor out on the balcony livingston delivers it. huzzah, there we go. look at all the people down below. president of the united states of america and spent boxing to a joint session and then delivers the address. several people in attendance at washington teams, several noticed a bead of sweat or two on the brow, a quiver of the voice and shaking of the hand. i don't think he ever felt particularly comfortable, that was not his soul for sure but he did it. one of the legacies why because i think he thought it was essential to the republican government that power shows itself, speaksow itself, that it let itself be known this isn't a european deal, it's a french kind of thingd or some sort of ritual in the house of commons

jefferson and madison went in the south and virginia. they did not know what hamilton knew that george washington already decided the capital should be in virginia near his home. hamilton gave up the capital would be there and something that was already done so he plays jefferson and madison and ultimately jefferson once a simple town of only a few week or so hamilton agrees so now jefferson submits his own design anonymously and then picks it but he didn't know that it went to washington and washington said no but with the 1790 to solidify or codify the spring compromise the capital is in virginia but then ten years later meanwhile in the interim in philadelphia while they build the city that his name for washington and that is the residence act of 1790. but votes fail and here you see washington playing political chess master. if you wanted to flip the book vote washington strategically picked members of congress and that with them personally and would flip every single vote to get the votes he needed. washington not only picks the loc

wanted to pay the debt to be paid so he surrenders and says you have to pay your debt but little do madison and jefferson know if the south does not pay the debt that means the federal government will assume bad debt under the treasury who is the secretary? hamilton. the strongest federal government jefferson wanted a weaker federal government but by hamilton giving of that. and that hamilton gets everything that he wants then the second cap question is where the b-uppercase-letter? they wanted it in the south and virginia but they didn't know and what they already decided that the capital should be in virginia so hamilton said it would be there and then he placed jefferson and madison that ultimately jefferson once a simple federal town and then it appears that he submits his own design anonymously but what jefferson didn't know but washington said no so there you go so then in 1790 to solidify the state compromise the capital is in virginia but ten years later and then meanwhile that would be in philadelphia while they have to build the city eventually named for george washington the atta

madison, what do you think of this. he seems to have taken one look at it and said that's not going to happen and the two of them bend themselves to the task. so those of you familiar with madison or medicines pros craft you can see it here in several ways. it's that manuscript that gets tucked into washington's breast pocket as he assumes the office itself. he takes the oath of office out on the second floor out on the balcony and delivers it looking at all the people down below saying the president of the united states of america and then walks into what we now call joint session and delivers the address. several people were in attendance and wrote their sort of impressions. washington seems several notice that there might have been a bead of sweat or two on the brow and may be a quiver in the boys and shaking in the hands back to the question. i don't think they ever felt particularly comfortable. and that wasn't his zone which is sure, we can talk about why, but one of the legacies why is because i think that he tho

bend themselves to the task and those of you familiar with madison or madison's prose craft, you can see it there in work in several ways. it's that manuscript that gets tucked into washington's breast pocket as he assumes the office itself. he takes the oath of office out on the second floor, out on the back any there of livingston. and there we go, look at the people down below. and livingston says long live george washington, president of the united states of america. and see, and then into the-- and that's where we might now what we call a joint session. and then delivers the address. several people in attendance wrote, penned their sort of impressions. washington seems-- several noticed that there might have been a bead of sweat or two on the brow and maybe a quiver in the voice and shaking of the hands. back to this orator question, i don't think, ever felt particularly comfortable. that wasn't his zone for sure, but he did it, you know and we talk about why, but one of the legacies why is because it's-- i think he thought it was absolutely essential to the ethos of republican

madison, those are the big names. the book i wrote tries to identify issues on which they share wisdom that might help us. when his race. major figure is going to be jefferson who speaks to both sides of the racial divide, income inequality, they invented the middle-class society in the 1930s. anything under the sun, a crystal ball for the world. a society where wealth was distributed from the middle out. we no longer are a middle-class society. it is a second yielded age we are living in where wealth is unevenly distributed. the third areas the law. here i am talking primarily about the failure of government to do all that it should do, or to be harnessed in ways that it should be harnessed. i bring a discussion of the doctrine of originalism and have some things to say about the tradition of the weight has been used. foreign policies, washington is my lodestar here, the farewell address that have meanings now it didn't have through most of its history. those are the four areas i focus on. when i started writing the

so to jefferson and madison's surprise, we don't have a lot of sources. we have secondary sources but he would write a day reimagined version to put him in favorable light and it was the worst moment of his political life because he did w not like hamilton. he agrees the capital goes in the south but what hamilton knew washington was already up on the edge of the potomac now the south did not want to contribute so a lot of the fighting and the cost was born by the northern states pennsylvania new york and massachusetts were in a pickle so jefferson and madison will not contribute. so what they didn't realize by them not contributing the federal government has to assume their debt and the treasury secretary one of the most powerful people in the government. so hamilton plays the brilliant madison like a d guitar and gets all that he wants and then to have an interestingf exchange with a little simple town jefferson proposes to have a design contest. the public submits the designs but jefferson proposes i will serve on that committee and share it. thinks. h

you said that james madison was a debt pessimist. that had me thinking as i'm doing my own readings on the tore mags of the constitution and what happened afterward. is it possible for a debt pessimist -- part of the federalist pitch was to have a structured society and rescue the states and create a strong national government. that would imply debt realism. could you clarify about debt pessimism and madison? >> could madison have a been a debt pessimist and also a federalist? isn't that at odds, logically? it's been a while since i studied this. but i do seem to recall that madison wasn't a federalist all that long. right? he was, but he was not pushed on the issue of repayment of the debt. or of, you know, issues of the national debt. because frankly, what is in the constitution, the federal government shall have the right to borrow. but a debt pessimist can let that slide. maybe not a super-duper hardcore pessimist, but he can let that go. he was pushed on it, and he leaves, goes off and starts playing with jefferson. so, you know

madisons said small states are states that have been slave people. there were people who in those who don't and this was a way of compromising and colleagues that were used to being alone for themos to come together in a union. >> host: this was not an easy process, was it? >> guest: not at all, not at all. they saw themselves in different places and jefferson talked about virginia he talks aboutut his country and that's what he meant.at they didn't created nation all at once but they created a union and that was a difficult process and you know by the conferences -- compromises that they made. a papering over of the things you had in the 1860s. >> host: one of those founders that you have written. veaux about thomas jefferson when did your interest start? >> guest: my interest in jefferson starter when i was in elementary school and inch our classroom at the back of the classroom you have a separate library in the back of the classroom. do you have a library and it had books for third-graders and this was when i was in the third t grade. booker t. w

in the second one wasritten by madison in april of 1789 for a specific purpose and it was designed to assure the states that it recently ratified the constitution but it did so with recommended amendments and they wanted certain changes and six of the states were worried about what they called a standing army. standing on. it was designed to assure them going to hapn in the national defense would be in the hands of militia, state -based mitia. and that is what they thought the militia asked, of 1792, that implements the second amendment, is sensually required that white males between the ages of 18 - 49 they must purchase musket and an outfit. in the original meeting the second amendment is not that you are right to bear. meaning has been twisted as we experience dailyly and weekly basis, medicine and people purchasing ar 15, after the madison is going on his grave. his language has been twisted. the rest of the world, over $3m with this in the united states and guns or rifles. the highest rate in the world. and to my judgment, the spring court decision i think that a member of the na

for those of you familiar madison, you can see it at work there several ways. beckett tucked into washington's pocket. he takes it out on the second floor out on the balcony there and find delivers it. look at all the people down below. president of the united states ofto america. then he walks in. we might now call it joint session and then delivers the address. there are several people in attendance, washington seems to notice there might be a bead of sweat or two on the brow, maybe a quicker waiver and the voice, shaking of the hand in this question. i don't think het ever felt particularly comfortable, for sure but hes did it. one of the legacies why is i think he's got it was essential to the republican government that power shows itself, speaks itself and this isn't a european deal. it's a french kind of thing or a ritual in the house of commons or something. in any case, he stands up and put manuscript in hand, maybet t shakes a little bit but this is an intensent moment delivers the address. it's into seven paragraphs, not particularly long but very poi

and i think you cited that james madison was a debt pessimist. and that starts me thinking, as i'm currently doing my own readings on the constitution. is it really possible for a debt pessimist to be a federalist? then your comment woods say the medicine was. it seems that part of his pitch was to offer a structure that could tolerate debt, and create a strong national government. that would imply get real-ism. could you just talk about that for my own understanding on that point. >> so the question is could madison have been a debt pessimist, because he was also a federalist. and it's at odds logically. so you know, it has been a while since i studied this period, but i do seem to recall that madison was not a federalist for all that long. right well he was but, he was not pushed on the issue of repayment of the debt. or of issues of the national debt. because frankly the federal government should have the right to borrow. but a debt pessimist can let that slide. maybe not a super duper hard-core debt pessimist, but certainly he can let that go