when it comes to the icc, we know that the icc is one potential venue for accountability. we have cooperated with the icc in the past. i mentioned this yesterday, within recent days the trial of a former commander as begun at the hague under the offices of icc. that individual is being tried in part based upon evidence that the department of state ourselves collected for his role in the genocidal campaign a regime carried out a number of years ago. we are consulting very closely with allies and partners first and foremost to the mechanisms and jurisdictions that will help us see the ultimate goal of accountability achieved. >> [indiscernible] the taliban continued its policies to not allow afghan girls to go to school. what will be the steps of the state department? [indiscernible] they cannot travel without their kids. [indiscernible] they do not get any response from the state department. [indiscernible] >> nothing could be further from the truth as you know. we have continued to stand by the people of afghanistan in terms of our communitarian leadership, and the contrib

from really being able to engage with the icc or spend any money to work with the icc on their investigations. and so i'm working on legislation right now to try and address those legislative issues. and i've been encouraging the biden administration to forcefully support the icc investigation here to make sure that the u.s. can help them with collecting evidence. we know that evidence collection is an incredibly important piece of the icc being able to do their job and that we have specific tools, like our intelligence community, that will be helpful in that evidence collection. and then to make sure that we are working with the icc on those tribunals and then working to hold accountable who they find guilty for these crimes. >> if the russians or when the russians i should say launch the full scale assault in the east that everyone is expecting could be large tank battles there, do the ukrainians have what they need to push that back? >> we are working tirelessly with ukrainians to make sure they have what they need. we have seen historic levels of security assistance go to the ukrainians f

there are, though, some other ways to hold workers accountable beyond just icc. but most of those pots run through the united nations security council where russia has the power to veto anything it wants, even though the rest of the world supports it. even now, multiple organizations and government bodies are investigating alleged russian war crimes, collecting evidence, trying to build a case that these things actually happened. ukraine's prosecutor general said over the weekend that her office has dozens of investigators looking at evidence in ukraine. on sunday, ukraine president volodymyr zelenskyy said that he also plans to create, quote, a special mechanism of justice involving both ukrainian international experts to hold russia accountable. but where and how this evidence will be presented remains unclear. so, what can the world actually do to hold vladimir putin accountable? joining me now is owned a hot the, way professional of international law at yale law school, and founder for the center of global legal challenges. professor, thank you for being with

and russia not being signatories to the icc. >> good morning, amy. there are several venues for accountability regarding the ukraine war. one is obviously the icc, the international criminal court in the hague. as you were right, neither russia nor the u.s. ratified and are signatories -- signature states, but there are other ways to take cases. one way, what happened here, so state referral. so let the when you was a signature -- the duane yeah was a signature state as well as u.k., referred the case of the ukraine situation to the chief prosecutor of the icc. the chief prosecutor opened an investigation for this is restricted to war crimes. so the so-called crime of aggression is not covered by the investigation and that is due to the very weak legislation when it comes to war of aggression, crime of aggression because many states don't want to submit themselves under any kind of international jurisdiction. they want to lead the wars. war crimes can also be investigated under the principle of jurisdiction in a number of european and other states an

ukraine is also not a member of the icc. though it has accepted some authority by the court, in the past. even so, russia is unlikely to recognize the icc's jurisdiction any time soon especially when doing so would likely mean sending vladimir putin to face international criminal prosecution. don't hold your breath for that one. there are though some other ways to hold war criminals accountable beyond just the icc but most of those paths run through the united nations security council, where russia has the power to veto anything it wants, even if the rest of the world supports it. right now, multiple international organizations and governmental bodies are investigating alleged russian war crimes, collect can evidence, trying to build a case that these things actually happened. ukraine's prosecutor general said over the weekend that her office has dozens of investigators looking at evidence in ukraine. on sunday ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy said he also plans to create quote a special mechanism of justice involving

as far as the icc is concerned, they will also look for suspects that they can get into custody soon. their focus is higher level individuals. ukraine can't prosecute the leaders of another country. it's not permitted under international law. that takes an international tribunal. in the past we have seen international prosecutors move quickly. the yugoslavia tribunal prosecutor moved against presidthe president there. within 16 months, he couldn't steal enough votes to stay in power. within 25 months, he was in the hague. many people thought it would be impossible. in other cases such as libya, president gadhafi died hiding in the battlefield, he was indicted 45 days after the icc gained jurisdiction. there could be charges relatively soon. it's a question of how challenging it is to put the cases together. there are two types. bombardment of mariupol, which may, according to the mayor, have more than 10,000 dead. whether that can be shown to be a war crime or whether those are legitimate targets that were shot. then we have the crimes of murder and rape and torture like we have seen

steve: very interesting is not the icc better special tribunal and that is where it comes from so is there any possibility of any precedent to try someone in absent to demonstrate the verdict? in the sense of the real scenario? >> the international criminal court cannot try somebody an abstention but a tribunal as i recommend could and it would have the full force and effect of all the members of the united nations and to have the problem with the icc in the united states and then with the icc then to establish a tribunal and then with respect to the work crimes against humanity in rwanda. so that is the avenue by which you can bring someone like vladimir putin to justice and yes you can bring him an abstention he would be isolated and cannot dare step into one of those member states to be obligated to take him into custody and put him on trial as a special tribunal. steve: i have been wondering about this for weeks and you have made it so clear and compelling steve: big news coming in france tonight the french president and challenger go into the second round of the french president

which is the treaty that created the icc and the countries that signed to be a party to it. we are already seeing bipartisan support for the icc investigations into russia's crimes in ukraine. we passed a bill in the house that would make sure the u.s. is providing support to investigations, and evidence collection for these investigations. i think it is incredibly important that as we support the icc investigation in ukraine, we also officially join. because right now, we are in a fight for the future of the international, if it will be an international system based on autocracy or based on the values that we all hold dear. and it is very important part of making sure that our side wins, that we continue to have a rules based international system, is that we hold ourselves to the same rules we're asking other countries to hold themselves to. because one of the biggest things that gives us power is our ability to muster other countries. we've seen that in this case. we've been able to work with partners and allies around the world to stand firmly and united against russia's

is not pary to the icc, other than a supportive role, what can it do to facilitate a trial? >> well, let me give you an update on where we are. and i would also -- let me first point to the fact historically, we have provided evidence to the icc even though we are not a party member. so if you look back to 2004, the state department collected evidence indicating that the sudanese military and militias were committing specific acts of violence against members of non-arab groups in darfur. and the secretary of state at the time determined that was a genocide in we worked with the icc and un securityy council to hold accountable. i would note there is historic reference. think about the timeline of this historic reference for that is also important because that was 2004, and it is just starting now. so it takes time. now it doesn't always take that amount of time. but just, you know, as you're looking at the history. right now, there are a number of efforts already underway to hold any russians accountable for atrocities and war crimes. overer the past few weeks, we established

the icc's chief prosecutor described ukraine as a crime scene. based on what you've seen so far, i know there is a lot of evidence that needs to be gathered, eyewitness testimony, but based on what you've seen so far, do you see hard evidence of war crimes and if so, how broadly in ukraine? >> yeah, absolutely. i think from the almost earliest days of the current invasion, we were seeing pretty clear indications of war crimes and these are specific violations of the geneva convention, designed to protect noncombatants, civilians or soldiers no longer able to defend them. since then, in places like bucha, irpin, and mariupol, i think there is pretty compelling evidence of crimes against humanity. and i would agree with the statement. certainly these areas on the outskirts of kyiv constitute one continuous large crime scene. >> we have been showing pictures there as you've been speaking of yet one more civilian family mourning over the body of yet one more civilian victim here. they appear to be the deliberate targets, a lot of evidence of that of

because there is going to be a war crimes trial with the icc. it needs to happen. and vladimir putin needs to be held fully accountable for what he has done to the people of ukraine. >> senator, it's brianna keilar. i wanted to ask you about this new tranche of weapons being sent from the u.s. these next couple weeks could be really pivotal in whether ukraine is able to push russia back effectively enough. are those weapons going to get here in time? >> it's a real concern. i spoke with a number of ukrainian leaders, i spoke with military leaders while i was there. if there was one message, it's this. the war crimes aren't going to end until the war ends. the human tear yann crisis is not going to end until the war ends. and the war is only going to end when the ukrainians win this war against the russians. and they're only going to win it if we can get this lethal aid to them in time. they have a long list. they have prioritized it. it's heavy artillery, heavy armor, surface-to-air capabilities. time is of the essence. they need more. there is a window of time we

alex: i am so glad you raised the icc report. for those of us who have been following climate change, the conclusion from the report was alarming but not surprising. at bank of america, we, frankly, have treated climate change as an urgent issue for years, really decades, and we also understood that we need to accelerate the pace and scale of our emission reduction, whether in operations or how we are financing our clients, which is, frankly, why we set these 2030 targets, first the portfolio targets, and i should mention we look at others, and our trillion dollar targets to mobilize capital. so to answer your question, they are ambitious, but they are also achievable. but having said that, our success will require a number of things. it is going to require continued and robust engagement with our clients, which we are committed to. it is going to require a supported policy environment. it is going to require collaboration across all sectors of the economy, along with policymakers, regulators, other stakeholders, which is why, if

there's an icc prosecutor on the ground in bucha and the icc tweeted "ukraine is a crime scene. we have reasonable grounds to believe that crimes within the jurisdiction of the icc are being committed. we have to pierce the fog of war to get to the truth." at the moment that's impossible in mariupol really until we're able to get inside and see what's actually going on, halle. >> let me go to you for your latest reactions to the developments in ukraine. >> it's shocking but actually not surprising that a military as undisciplined as the russian military and under direction the vladimir putin would be committing war crimes on this scale. >> ambassador, to you. >> kori is right, it's not shacking. it does raise the question about what it is we're going to do. clearly there is no diplomatic off ramp here, vladimir putin shut the door to that. sanctions, even if we get the gas and oil sanctions that the europeans have so far been unwilling to impose are not going to do anything in time. there is a question of what we're going to do to prevent even worse brutalities coming forward, w

now that we have a conflict in russia and ukraine and whether the icc has jurisdiction. even in non-international conflicts where there is amendment of the icc, it only extends by a state-by-state basis. it is still unlikely to be available in most of the situations that arise there. the second on the question of intent, it is partly about confusion of what it means to be shown with respect to establishing the crime. that is why in my remarks about emphasizing the resilience of survival and that is done with a view to recognize that starvation will occur, but you do not have to prove the specific outcome of the deprivation of the object. that is not an element of the crime. a reticent to engage in this line of strategy is a concern. how do you prove that this particular act caused this particular outcome, whether there are multiple factors linked between action and result? it is often long and torturous, the various ways of which they are being in one another. the fact is, you do not have to establish that. that is enough. i do think under legal categories, the concern t

psaki: there are a range of different options that history has utilized, whether it is the icc or the osce and basically an international forum is the appropriate form we are not going to predetermine what that looks like. >> does the west -- [indiscernible] is it considering moving back into look rain -- ukraine? pres. sec. psaki: it is in our interest to have diplomatic presence on the ground. that is made through the prism of security considerations and the smaller presence that gets larger but they are the appropriate entity to speak to that. >> it appears we are leading from behind. a lot of countries say that they are back to ukraine. pres. sec. psaki: the most important thing that the u.s. it does is lead the global coalition in standing up against russia and ensure we are providing military security assistance, tapping into not only our own resources but the resources of countries around the world. leading the world in a package of economic sanctions that have had an crippling impact on the russian economy. >> do you go to ukraine? pres. sec. psaki: we are not planning a trip

the icc is very clear -- that is easy at the icc. it is going to take countries and jurisdictions operating together in good faith to make the system work in a synergistic way. host: what happens if a country says " i do not care if you charge me. i will not participate. i will not allow you to extradite any of my fighters." what happens then? guest: we had that exact same scenario in sierra leone. we had that in charles taylor good's trial. there is no statute of limitations on these offenses. frequently you have seen countries take that position. you are seeing officials on trial in the hague even as we talk this morning so things change. the key thing right now is not necessarily to focus on what happens long-term in what court but how we build these cases in real time. we document the evidence with granularity because that is the necessary predicate for bringing any charges in any court. we will see what happens. i interviewed the lady in the milosevic trial. she said " nobody will ever charge milosevic," but i knew her statement

the icc is very clear -- that is easy at the icc. it is going to take countries and jurisdictions operating together in good faith to make the system work in a synergistic way. host: what happens if a country says " i do not care if you charge me. i will not participate. i will not allow you to extradite any of my fighters." what happens then? guest: we had that exact same scenario in sierra leone. we had that in charles taylor good's trial. there is no statute of limitations on these offenses. frequently you have seen countries take that position. you are seeing officials on trial in the hague even as we talk this morning so things change. the key thing right now is not necessarily to focus on what happens long-term in what court but how we build these cases in real time. we document the evidence with granularity because that is the necessary predicate for bringing any charges in any court. we will see what happens. i interviewed the lady in the milosevic trial. she said " nobody will ever charge milosevic," but i knew her statement

if it gets to a trial, if it gets to the icc, who stands trial? is it the commander of the russian unit, is it vladimir putin himself? >> well, i think what's important to focus on right now is to make sure even if we're talking about recent findings in bucha, horrendous images and video and reporting coming out of bucha, it is very important to conduct a proper investigation first. so we don't know how these people died. we don't know how they ended up on the street. we don't know, you know, the cause of death. and what we documented as i mentioned are apparent war crimes, and they should be investigated as such. but what's happening in bucha and many other places going to be looked at now, there should be a proper investigation. you know, when we're talking about mass graves, there should be very specific procedure with -- a proper explanation should be organized to make sure that vital evidence is preserved and bodies are identified and it's clear how they died and circumstances of their death. and in terms of accountability and justice, that's

well, it's - certainly discouraging in the sense that the sort of ethos of the icc and the elevation of rape as a potential war crime is one that would lead us to want it to be prosecuted robustly. but i think there is also a great deal of potential healing for survivors of rape through process of reporting and meeting others who have been through a similar experience, and there are often transitionaljustice through locally based initiatives that bring families of perpetrators together with survivors. even though at that exalted level of the icc, it may be impossible or difficult to secure effective convictions. there's more local processes through which justice can occur, there's more local processes through whichjustice can occur, and i think thatis whichjustice can occur, and i think that is one of the big motivations to document and to help look ahead at what we will have to, what justice will be needed once the fighting stops. justice will be needed once the fighting stops-— justice will be needed once the fighting stops. justice will be needed once the fiaahtin stos. . ., ~ .

is party to the icc, made up of 123 nations, which is responsible for holding war crime trials. if putin was ever charged, he would need to be arrested and handed over to the court, which is unlikely. the biden administration will continue to squeeze russia economically. new sanctions expected wednesday will ban all new investment there and impose additional penalties on government officials and their family members. and following those latest brutal acts, several nato nations expelled russian diplomats this week, and the european union has proposed an all-out ban on russian coal imports. norah? >> weijia jiang at the white house. thank you. >>> let's turn now to ukraine, where officials say they've uncovered more evidence of atrocities committed by russian forces. president zelenskyy said these are the worst war crimes since world war ii and he is calling for a nuremberg-style tribunal to investigate and prosecute any russians involved. cbs's holly williams is in ukraine. >> reporter: more sickening stories are emerging from the town of bucha. tanya nedazkivska said her husband

the icc is a possibility because ukraine has granted or will grant jurisdiction through the icc, but even then apprehending a putin or someone would be an enormous task. there are ad hoc processes that could be created or especially tribunals by way of agreement or through the security council again. but, again, you'll have a challenge with russia being a permanent member, seeking to veto any resolution. so i think right now what is important is that we document what is happening, make it clear, apparent and undeniable, so that there is a push, a will, courage for accountability, not only internationally, but hopefully within russia that the dissent builds and action is warranted and mandated. >> and that gets to the next question i was going to ask you. "the new york times" also notes in an analysis piece this morning, it is highly unlikely putin will ever be held accountable for what is done, despite the evidence gathered, so why is it still important to investigate him and others responsible for what we're seeing in ukraine? >> we need to look at this -- these events as not only b

the icc announced an investigation in ukraine which i am supportive of. i understand the biden demonstration is undergoing policy review of the icc and whether to provide serial support. does the biden demonstration support the icc's investigation? >> we do. let me add we welcome it. we are looking to see how we can support it. there are other critically important efforts and accountability for these were crimes and other atrocities that we are also supporting. the ukrainian prosecutor general, she is leading a major effort to document and collect evidence. we have our own experts working directly with her and her team. because we got back on the human rights council at the united nations we were able to lead the effort to establish the commissioner of inquiry. we are supporting that. along with the icc the prosecutor general, human rights council and other investigations going forward they will have our support. >> that is great to hear. i think it is important we support all of them. in terms of the icc, we know there are laws on the books that seem to

a number of other countries recognize the icc. back in the '90s, there was special tribunals set up. but i do think it's really important what ben just said. the idea of punishing because there is this sense from several people, world leaders who have spoken to putin, you know, in the early days of the war. particularly, the finnish president told me he felt there was -- and these were his words, a hatred growing inside putin for ukraine and for everything they stand for and everything that they have resisted. and an historian said even putin denying the legitimacy, the existence of ukraine as an independent nation and people could be adjudicated a genocidal thought, a genocidal ideology. anderson. >> and in terms of kharkiv, what have you been seeing there? >> yeah. well, yeah. this is the second city of -- of ukraine that russians tried to take in a two-pronged attack in the early days of the war. they were pushed back by the ukrainians but there has been constant -- ask we have heard it since we have been here -- artillery. and

we are not signatories to the icc. or at least should the u.s. increase funding for the court? >> yes. yes to both, jake. there needs to be an investigation. it needs to be done quickly, not 20 years later, as has often been the case with them. the evidence is there now. it ought to be collected now and vladimir putin ought to be investigated and prosecuted now. that's what needs to happen. and i hope thae t we do that. yes, if it's a matter of increasing funding, pushing whatever levers we need to do to make that happen. never again needs to mean never again. and we are witnessing images that we thought were permanently relegated to the history bobs. they're happening right before our eyes. i listened in on a couple of your previous guests, jake. bucha, you think that's bad. wait until they uncover mariupol and all the devastation and tragedy that's going to be uncovered there. >> i -- i know. it's hard to even imagine. i have to say, you have been an unequivocal supporter of the nato alliance. but just yesterday the house passed this non-binding resolution, reaffirming the ho

>> the icc is one venue through which you can hold a war crimes tribunal. there are other venues used in conflicts in the past. we're going to consult with our allies and partners about what the appropriate venue for any trials or tribunals would be. that's something we would do in private with them. i would say, those are the kind of things that would take place down the road. not something that is going to start today or tomorrow or this week. i think for -- as we continue to assess this evidence and analyze it, and collect it, and talk to our allies and partners about what the appropriate mechanisms of accountability are, we can't lose focus on the moment, when the most important thing we can do in the moment is to respond to these atrocities and that's to continue to flow weapons capabilities into the ukrainian so they can defend themselves, repel the russians from the north and they can defend against the russian offensives in the south and in the east. >> with the consideration of more sanctions coming forward, what else is left? i mean, at this point

s attitude international law, actually endorsing it, even the icc, and international court? >> i hope so. amnesty international has documented u.s. killing of civilians, destruction of civilian neighborhoods in syria, in particular the city of raqqa, which if you look at photos of it, buildings were completely destroye so i think everyone should be learning lessons. it is not one set of rules for the enemy and a different for yourself. if there supporting the icc in this context, they might understand the need for strong international criminal court were generally -- amy: joanne mariner,o7Ñ;Ñ;?k ♪♪♪ sally sara: in the mountains of the himalayas, a young girl leads the way home. she's been separated from her family for almost a year, sent to school in kathmandu. instead, she landed in a nightmare. kate van doore: children are being recruited or transferred into orphanages for the purposes of exploitation and profit. what better object of charity than an orphaned child? sally: thousands of children in nepal are being forced to pose as orphans to attract western donatio

and also because though the un security council could refer the time of aggression to the icc, russia of course would veto in this case. so what we need in this particular case is the establishment of a different international tribunal, a special tribunal to deal with the crime of aggression committed against ukraine. now you ask who would be held accountable. unlike the other international crimes like genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, aggression is different in that it is a leadership crime. so only those who are in leadership positions in the state that has engaged in aggression can be held responsible for aggression. so it would be the leadership in russia. also potentially actually the leadership in belarus. which was complicit in this act of aggression. >> professor, thank you so much for your time. thank you for explaining the legalities and where we stand on this, especially when it comes to genocide, which is often overused but not often understood. thank you so much, sir. >> it's a pleasure. >>> the man accused of shooting and wounding ten people on a crowded sub

whether or not to join the icc to cooperate with their investigation and remarkably, today in the "the new york times," you are gathering evidence. your team's on the ground are gathering evidence in bucha of the atrocities. >> exactly right. my incredibly courageous colleague and a team of photographers spent a week in bucha documenting extraordinary crimes against civilians. people randomly shot in the street. sex crimes. a parade of horribles to use an old phrase from the iraq war. it's devastating and you're right they're doing the work that, in some ways, will be done in a no cruel and vicious the war really is. it's a warconquest, of aggression and revenge, i think, on the part ofut, who was in ukraine broke away. they've long resisted being part of that because they don't want americans being part of a tribunal. russia is also not a member. it's a question of jurisdiction whether it will make an impact. >> and just to wrap this up, no pun intended, there is a debate over whether to change the laws. there's an agreement with lindsey graham and apparently dick durbin to change a 2

s attitude international law, actually endorsing it, even the icc, and international court? >> i hope so. amnesty international has documented u.s. killing of civilians, destruction of civilian neighborhoods in syria, in particular the city of raqqa, which if you look at photos of it, buildings were completely destrod. so i think everyone should be learning lessons. it is not one set of rules for the enemy and a different for yourself. if there supporting the icc in this context, they might understand the need for strong international criminal court were generally -- amy: joanne mariner,o7Ñ;Ñ;?k ♪ ♪ >>> hello and welcome back to nhk "newsline." i'm takao minori in new york. >>> people around the world are seeing evidence of what many believe is an atrocity. they're recoiling from images of russian attacks in suburbs of the ukrainian capital. some believe troops attacked civilians purposely and indiscriminately. president volodymyr zelenskyy visited the site about 40

we've brought up ongoing conversation with the icc and icj. we talked about the lack of enforcement there. we are not a member of the icc. >> it raises that point which is talk is cheap. as a whole host of action we can do starting with refusing to work with putin unless -- -- the ruble has rebounded at somewhat. it hasn't come completely back, but it didn't have to. their economy is damaged, but you know brian, you said it too appeared it could take months. were simply not doing what we could. but we made a promise, kayleigh, we said we never would let this happen again. >> sanctions are great. they are leaky. it's oil and gas in america. >> coming up the u.s. is breaking for a massive run at the southern border. when trump arrow restrictions are lifted next month. wait until you hear who the white house is blaming for the crisis this time. you know they are not doing the old i'm looking at myself in the mayor pointing a finger thing. it's somebody else's fault. te bn for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with

we have to and i have to as a prosecutor of the icc do my job. judges then will do their jobs and check and make determinations that we will respect. this great realization that a common front needs to be built based upon legality because it affects ukraine, but it affects all parts of the world because of the rules-based system and the principles of public international law that have to be rendered much more meaningful, not to judges in their gowns or advocates in the courtroom, but to the men and women and children that you see on the streets and refugee camps that are completely innocent and that suffer horrendous crimes time and time and time again. we tend to have not only short memories, but also an absence of shame. >> every year on international holocaust memorial day, i read these statements from leaders, never again, never again. and there's always a genocide going on, whether myanmar or any of the other places that you've mentioned. what do you say to somebody out there who says it's all nonsense. they say never again and then tens of

i asked the prosecutor if he was worried the icc joining may actually deter some of those countries. he says he hopes it wouldn't. it's possible, but he hopes folks in other countries will join this investigation because as he says, refugees have fled to a number of countries and they need to document as much as possible. jake. >> erica hill reporting live from warsaw, poland. thank you so much. and joining us live to discuss, democratic congressman mike quigley of illinois, who serves on the house intelligence committee and just returned from congressional delegation trip to poland, slovakia, and romania. the russian energy giant cut off gas supplies to poland and bulgaria, both of them nato countries, after those countries refused to pay for gas with russian currency, with rubles. you have already called for europe to shut off the pipeline and energy coming from russia because that money pays for the war and it would weaken putin to do so. so what do you make of this latest move? >> well, first, kudos to bulgaria and poland and others who are pushing back. i know estonia is being v

and that's what you're asking when you sign up to the icc. and it comes back, again, to the ways putin plays off this idea of america's constant exceptionalism for itself. i'm not saying this is true. but what american is saying, only american courts can act on american service people but we want putin to be held to account. legally it means whatever happens politically in russia, whoever takes over from putin, has no legal obligation to hand him over to prosecution. and that's incredibly difficult to enforce. >> we're also learning today that russia is shutting down the offices of human rights organizations like human rights watch and amnesty international in its country. what consequences does that have? >> well, for me it speaks to how much putin is gathered much about the disinformation he's continued to sow internally in russia. amnesty and human rights has been in russia for about 30 years. he's been slowly closing that space not only for disendt but for the ability to hear any alternative opinions, any alternative reality for the peopl

remember the icc itself was under sanctions from the trump administration for two years. and so it was very, very difficult to get this kind of unity that we now have, that these crimes are the worst crimes we know to humanity as a whole and that there is an absolute mandate to go forward and make sure that they are investigated and prosecuted. >> what happens to putin personally, nothing? >> well, it's complicated. he is the head of state. he is a sovereign in his own state. we've seen in other situations like the conflict in the former yugoslavia, he was indicted. he wasn't indicted at the very beginning of the war. he was indicted actually many years into the war. and ultimately once the indictment happened it wasn't that nato marched in to belgrade and captured the former president, it was that his own people actually arrested him and held him. and ultimately he was turned over to the yugoslavia tribunal for trial. we have seen the same pattern with omar al-bashir of sudan who fought an arrest warrant from the international criminal court for many, many years but ulti

the icc does not have its own police force and relies on countries to arrest suspects, jericka. >> duncan: debora patta and our cbs news crew, thank you. >> well a cbs news poll out today shows americans remain supportive of u.s. efforts in ukraine. that includes high support for increasing sanctions on russia. cbs's christina ruffini is at the white house with some new developments on the diplomatic front. christina, good evening. >> good evening, jericka, several european nations announced plans to reopen their embassy in kyiv and state department sources tell cbs news they are exploring options for potentially sending u.s. diplomats back into country, although likely not in the immediate future. >> this is a remarkable thing that the ukrainians won the battle of kyiv. >> on "face the nation" today national security advisor jake sullivan says that victory came down to the bravery and skill of the ukrainian military. and the weapons provided by the united states. >> we're working through when we will be in a position to set our diplomatic presence back up in kyiv. that is a judgment that

the former icc prosecutor told me that even if there is an indictment, the hardest part will be getting putin and senior members of the russian government physically into a courtroom. erin? >> absolutely. david, thank you. >>> and next, tiger woods poised to play in the masters after that serious car crash last year that left many wondering if he'd ever walk again. ♪ ♪ ♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover cd. you never know what opportunities life will send your way. but if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or psoriatic arthritis, enbrel can help you say i'm in for what's next. ready to create a bigger world? -i'm in. ready to earn that “world's greatest dad” mug? -i'm in. care to play a bigger role in this community? -i'm in. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, helps stop permanent joint damage, and helps skin get clearer in psoriatic arthritis. with less pain, you're free to join in. enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, ly

support for the icc to told that trial, to deal with the evidence you gist referenced? ? >> well i won't speak for the entire u.s. government but here in the pentagon, we've been clear about our concerns about the icc and some of their activities and the potential ramifications for american service men and women who are serving in iraq and afghanistan. i think we've been very clear about that. but again, there are clear war crimes going on in ukraine. we're going to help contribute to the administration's effort to document that, to collect that evidence. so that it can be used by appropriate international tribunals going forward. >> understood. i know those are complex international issues. we did want to get you on the record on all of the items and we understand how busy of a time it is for you and your colleagues so i appreciate you joining us, admiral john kirby. >> yes, sir. glad to be with you. >> we're going to fit in a break. when we come back, why barack obama is telling democrats he has advice, tout the wins and the guy who gives him advice, david plouffe, the

the icc has started an investigation into the war in ukraine, but what happens? what evidence is required to prosecute perpetrators and how solid does it need to be? hugh: so it needs to be very solid. we would point out that for a war crime it actually the responsibility of the state whose soldiers commit that crime, they have a responsibility to hold those soldiers to account. it is actually russia's responsibility. human rights watch is calling on russia to investigate these allegations of war crimes by its soldiers and to hold those to account and prosecute them if necessary. if that does not happen, we welcome the fact that ukraine has launched an investigation in bucha and elsewhere, sent experts to the area. we encourage them to do the investigation thoroughly and carefully. bodies need to be preserved, evidence needs to be preserved, testimony, witnesses need to be gathered. we welcome the fact that the european union and the united states in the last two days are committed to sending specialist investigators including forensic experts to bucha and elsewh

icc joined yesterday. we should join as well, and we could have our own fbi agents and others out there helping build this case as quickly as possible so that there could be high level arrest warrants issued, public arrest warrants. of course that doesn't mean you'd get the guy in custody if it's a high level russian or putin. there's a possibility that lower level individuals that are captured on the battlefield might be prosecuted by the ukrainians. we really want to take this to the top, to the people that made these horrible crimes happen. >> when we were in bucha yesterday and talking to the bucha prosecutor, he showed us photographs that they've obtained and seeing them for the first time that were taken by an eyewitness on the street where many of the -- many killings took place. there was a russian apc parked at the end of the street that shot many people on that street. there was another apc in a tank also elsewhere on the street. the images that they show, which were all taken by the same eyewitn

reporter: the icc has also charged his old ally with genocide but is still working on securing his extradition to the hague. laura: here in washington, former president barack obama made his very first visit to the white house since leaving office in 2017. it feels like the good old days, said president biden, as he welcomed back the man who he served under as vice president. for more we are joined now by our north american correspondent. why was barack obama crossing the threshold of the white house? >> well, he was there to celebrate the 12th anniversary of the passage of the affordable care a, obamacare as has been called. the democratic led health care reform effort. he w going to talk about the accomplishmes of this health care program, the 14.5 million americans who are now covered under its auspices, as well as to talk a little about what is left to be done for the democrats to shore up support for this law, including expanding coverage for poor americans, and also tout an administrative action under the biden administration to expand coverage for 5 million more families to give them he

the icc does not have its own police force, and relies on countries to bring in suspects. >> debora patta and our cbs news crew, thank you. >>> a cbs news poll shows americans remain supportive of u.s. efforts in ukraine. that includes high support for increasing sanctions on russia. christina ruffini is at the white house with new developments on the diplomatic front. christina, good evening. >> reporter: good evening. several european nations announced plans to reopen their embassies in kyiv, and tate department sources say they are exploring options for potentially sending u.s. diplomats back into the country, but likely not in the immediate future. >> this is a remarkable thing that the ukrainians won the battle of kyiv. >> reporter: on "face the nation" today, national secured adviser jake sullivan said that victory came down to the bravery and skill of the ukrainian military. and the weapons provided by the united states. >> we're working through when we'll be in a position to set our diplomatic presence back up in kyiv. that's a judgment that gets worked through our security profes

is not a member of the icc, but we have supported a number of investigations there over the years, including conveying key suspects who fell into our custom me to the hague, where they then stood trial for crimes against humanity. so even as a nonparty state, we can be supportive of this system of international justice. laura: how does war crimes prosecution work? is vladimir putin himself someone who could be accused of directing a war crime? >> indeed. war crimes prosecutions can be brought against individuals all up and down the chain of command. the direct perpetrator on the ground, the trigger polar, anyone up the chain of command, all the way up to the top, the individuals who are the architects of violence. these individuals can be held responsible for ordering offenses, but also under the doctrine of command responsibility, they can be held responsible if they knew or should have known that their subordinates were committing abuses, and they failed to take the necessary action to either prevent those acts or to punters them after the fact. and we are not seeing any effort at preventi