the first four of which reside within the doj. the pardon attorney under the direction of the attorney general is responsible for assessing petitions for executive clemency, reviewing case materials, vetting petitioners, and providing recommendations to the president. it is where the clemency process begins and ends for some petitioners. understanding the central importance of the office of the pardon attorney, to a discussion about clemency, and our committee's oversight over both the department of justice and the office of the pardon attorney, i thought it best to have the pardon attorney participate in our conversation today. it is unfortunate we were unable to reach an agreement with the department of justice to have the pardon attorney here to discuss how we can increase efficiency and reduce bias in the comments he process, because as the supreme court has noted, executive clemency serves so many families that are struggling with loved ones who deserve to have that consideration. i expect to have the -- here in be very futur

this isn't really something that you can gauge by knowing that doj wants to see these documents. it is suggestive of the fact that doj is engaging in a broadly based investigation, then fulfills that promise that merrick garland made on january 5th that he didn't care how high up people were, who they were that if they were involved in january 6th, which i took to be the entirety of the big lie, that the doj was heading into take a look. >> joyce, shifting gears a bit before we run out of time. in wisconsin yesterday, we saw a totally new legal approach to january 6th, the actual electoral college delegates in wisconsin, filed a lawsuit against not just the ten republicans who pretended to be the states electoral college delegates, but also a trump campaign lawyer involved in this scheme, and the lawyer who helped come up with this game in the first place. that strikes me as a place for individuals to hold people who try to overturn our elections responsible, in case the justice department doesn't. do you think that case has legs, though? >> this is a brilliant lawsuit. use as wi

kudos to the secrecy with which doj has been doing this. i think the public chatter that this is too slow, that doj is not moving fast enough, i think they are, i think they've moving. i think they've been deliberate in this and i think they have locked it down in terms of leakage. they were ready a month ago to receive transcripts of everything. it was a general request, not just this person's testimony or that. it was give us everything. i think they're ready and poised to move on it in their own timing. >> thank you very much for your insight. >>> still ahead, finland and sweden officially submit their applications to join nato. moments ago the new objections from turkey that could derail everything. >> well, derail everything for now. >>> plus donnie deutsche on why he thinks all the talk on replacement theory creates a branding theory for democrats. >>> white supremacy is a poison that's been allowed to fester and grow right in front of our eyes. no more. i mean, no more. we need to say as clearly and forcefully as we can that the ideo

the doj did not indicate the number of transcripts they wanted or if there were any specific interviews they were interested in. so far the committee has interviewed more than 1,000 people, including many close to the twice-impeached former president. while attorney general merrick garland has received criticism about the justice department's response to the insurrection, this is the latest sign of the department appearing to escalate the scope of its inquiry. and as the "new york times" also points out several months ago the department quietly detailed a former federal prosecutor from maryland to the department headquarters. he's overseeing the politically fraught question of whether a case can be made related to other efforts to overturn the election aside from the storming of the capitol. that task could move the investigation closer to donald trump and his inner circle. january 6th committee chairman bennie thompson told reporters tonight that his committee is willing to work with the department of justice but no agreement has been made yet on what will be provided. joining me now f

that is what doj will try to figure out. they have no way of knowing up front if that will lead right to the lead to the former president or not. the fact that they're willing to do that i think tells us a lot in term of what doj's level of commitment is when merrick garland makes statements like the one he made in regards to the january 6th investigation, that he'll follow the evidence no matter where it leads. i think that's important. when we look at the criminal conduct here, harry's right to say the fact that a case is open doesn't mean trump himself is a target of the investigation. but it could get there pretty quickly. and the bookend cases are hillary clinton, where there wasn't a prosecution because she didn't know that there was classified material. what prosecutors have to prove so not that the defendant should have known the material was classified they either took away or retained. they have to prove they actually knew it. and the book end case is general he petraus and he was prosecuted. he pled guilty to a mi

doj is a really big place. main justice, justice department headquarters, is massive, but this investigation is arguably, i think, in fact, the biggest criminal investigation the justice department has ever had to deal with. hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of defendants. it's also one of the most legally and politically complex. no one wants to bring a charge against a former president or a former white house chief of staff or a former senior administration official and lose in court. justice department lawyers and prosecutors are going to be very, very cautious and circumspect as they figure out how to make next steps in this investigation. the other challenge for doj is not just factually figuring out the complex ins and out of what happened in the white house where we're already seeing stiff-arming from white house officials, including dan scavino and mark meadows. it's not just figuring out the facts. it's also figuring out a legal theory that may or may not work in court and part of the reason that that

there's a lot of information doj can obtain. they can go to google to show where your phone was on that day or get your messages if they are unencrypted. there's a lot of ways they could match that up with what the individuals told congress. i think there's this interplay, tension but also interplay between the doj investigation and the congress investigation. we see during sentences, doj were -- the judges credited people who testified before the committee. that's been a benefit for defendants who have actually gone to the committee and testified. that's been something that their defense attorneys have brought up and gave that as credit. there's a lot of interplay between this investigation and it will be interesting to see how -- if these transcripts come through that could advance this further. >> ryan, thank you very much. >>> that's going to do it for me for this 11:00 a.m. hour. i will be back in this seat at 2:00 p.m. eastern. >>> before that, "andrea mitchell reports" starts right now. ♪♪ >>> good day, everyone. this

all of that is going to be the subject of review by doj. >> so frank, those are good questions. i was going to ask you what the questions were that you had left in your mind, and you just rattled off a bunch of them. in the history of these critical incident reviews, do they tend to lead to change? i mean, one of the things that we ask for in circumstances like this is accountability. everybody says at the end, especially when someone like you and others say this is the most colossal failure of law enforcement i've seen in this kind of situation. you say, okay, colossal failure. what happens now to give accountability? accountability will not bring these kids back. accountability will not bring these teachers back, it will not bring peace to this community. what do these critical incident reviews lead to? have they done that in the past, and can we expect they might do so now? >> yeah, in my experience, they do. so of course ironically what's the greatest example we can show that's on point? the columbine reviews that were done literally changed the policy. but now here we are y

republicans running for office have to commit to taking a look at this at doj or the fbi. we want law enforcement officials who pledge to enforcing the law. >> 100%. i see that with so many of the people i know in law enforcement. we have to make a distinction between the door kickers, nose doing the actual work. our leadership is broken, whether it's the upper echelons of law enforcement or the fbi or the doj. you see the same thing with the military. when our generals get on stage in congress. if they can't see what's happening after being in a venue for 20 years, they are incapable of leading. they shouldn't be in those positions. we have seen the with woke in the military take over. i don't know if the fbi has committed a crime in decades because they are too worried about nonsense. they are worried if your grandmother took a selfie near the capitol on january while actual terrorists get free rein and probably help as it relates to the entrapment and the other failed persecution they tried pushing on the american people the last couple months. >> donald trump, jr., we

for appointing a fake slate of doj electors. that man doug mastriano, he rocked to a primary after a twice-impeached ex-president who endorsed him. pennsylvania's leading far-right figure funding busses to shuttle supporters to the rally on january 6th 2021, that preceded the attack on the capitol. during his run for governor he has bard the news media from attending his campaign events and the qanon conspiracy theory. it is difficult to understate the potential impact of an insurrectionist running, potentially running one of the country's most important battleground states. nbc news reports this, quote, should mastriano prevail in the general election, he will be able to appoint the secretary of state to oversee elections and his choice would re-set the state's voter rule so everyone would, quote, have to re-register. mastriano may be the election truther and he will not be the last as nbc's vaughn hillyard reports doug mastriano, arizona, carrie lake, michigan, james craig and rebecca kleefisch, they'd each be tasked with cert

the budget includes a increase for fy 22 to fy 22 connected levels, for doj. however, rhetoric and behavior from the administration to often send a different signal of law enforcement officers not respected or shown respect from our leaders there, will not be respected within the community. we've also seen in the appalling agree increase in attacks on police officers. it is no department that the departments -- police department that shows officers a short start short staffed and have issues in recruiting new officers. the budget request would undermine the port of prison -- excuse me -- the bureau of presidents ability to benton state will modern facilities that are able to deliver education [inaudible] and felicia program. in addition, the request proposes new unauthorized grant programs intended to inhibit americas exercise of their second amendment rights. the budget request is ultimately a -- it's disappointing that these messaging programs were pro privatized over the bunches critical nations is fully addressing the surge in violent crime. the budget req

tim garland, welcome to this hearing this budget that is being presented supports the doj grant program under the newly-reauthorize violence against women act, which i was proud to cosponsor. for programs that support local police and sheriffs departments. i want to highlight these programs as a critical tool to address the shocking increase in violent crimes including a 30% surge and u.s. murder rate, the largest single year increase and 50. unfortunately violent crime continues to lack the attention it requires. it is absolutely critical the department of justice supports state local law enforcement, both through grant programs and joint force and -- includes an increase for, to fy 22 enacted levels for doj, however rhetoric and behavior from the administration to often send a different signal. if law enforcement officers are not respected or shown respect from our leaders, they will not be respected within the community. we have also seen an appalling increase in attack on police officers. it is no surprise that the departments police officers, police departments and sheriffs officer

the doj must do that independently. if they think it's political, democrats going after republicans or vice versa, they don't act. they shouldn't act. but if they think someone's defying a legal subpoena, they have a duty to act. as for the wider political theaterics here, which going we can ignore, emily, let me read more from navarro's own words. you don't have any euphemisms or legal jargon. it's just him. and he says, if an incumbent can strip a predecessor of executive privilege, his view in this filing, imagine what will happen to biden and his advisers if biden and his adviser win the white house in 2024. he says, emily, if i'm not dead or in prison, i will lead the charge. it's a bit like a flip of what 50 cent famously said, emily, i'm sure you're familiar -- if i'm not rich by 26 i'll be dead or in jail. this is, if i'm not dead or in jail, i will enact april retribution on my opponents. i mentioned the fact that he has to right to file what he wants, but everybody else has the right to accountability for it.

the doj office of legislators previously objected. they said they would impact the doj's work. one thing that can clear is, what began as an enormous cases for a lot of people who are black and white trespassers, has moved up the chain to this kind of case, which is, again, they are possibly connected will surrounding the president or just are being one of them. we know the oath keepers providing them security. this mystery caller. at the same like doj is going across the longer is gone. >> yeah, i think that's, true i think is a first time seeing tensions ramp up. they have different eyes that are looking at this, and different approaches that are taking, whereas, doj the fbi, has to say very strict to what is the colonel fence they're investigating here. they can poke around the arnaud pinson doors, and hope they have it. but there's tension where -- and just in general, doj is hesitant to get into some of the details of their discretion and inquiries. >> ryan riley, thank you so much. still to come, the continued fallout for the supreme court leak as states prepare for post

what about the impact on doj components? marshals, immigration courts, u.s. attorneys offices. if you prepared any estimates, as a department prepared-ing estimates as to what the increasing expenditures maybe this year, unaccounted for in your budget request? >> i don't know that we have those numbers now, but i think our staff can work with yours. there is no question that there will be an increase in the u.s. attorney resources needed along the southern border. we've hired, with respect to the ij's, as i was telling senator braun, we've hired all the way up under the current appropriation. without, more we won't be able to increase the numbers. we are doing everything we can to streamline the system and to move people, the ij's, to the borders to assist their. we are always happy for more money, and i'll be happy to have our staff speak with the subcommittee staff about that. >> well, general, the crux of my conversation with you earlier in today's hearing generally revolved around violent crime. in my view is that the consequence of what the administration is determined to

we'll take a look at it and doj will get in there. there's a lot of inestitude in there n. >> lastly, was this a failure of training or a failure of valor? >> well, you know, i think it's probably both. i think as a law enforcement officer you're trained to act independently and you rely on your training. we see that every day. they should have gone in and engaged, and then at the top there needs to be answers. >> yeah, yeah. >> maybe not put the school police chief in charge of an operation like this. we'll see what happens. thank you both. up next, remember the guy who yelled at beto o'rourke during last week's press conference. >> sit down. >> you're out of line and an embarrassment. >> sit down. >> we will take a deeper look into the politicians who represent the town of uvalde after the break. who represent the town of uvalde after the break. looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? once-weekly ozempic® can help. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ ♪ oh, oh, oh ♪ ozempic® is proven to lower a1c. most people who took oze

. >> greg: when parents got upset, the doj called them a threat. it was a lie when garland said the fbi didn't spy. according to whistle-blowers inside the doj, the fbi used counterterrorism tools to target parents who protested their children's school covid policies, this is in stark contrast to statements made by attorney general merrick garland who claimed before congress that such investigations never happened. jim jordan and mike johnson say they have evidence garland directed the fbi to label parents with that threat tag allowing the bureau to track them. we've got to get one of those, the investigations claimed -- threat tags were applied over the country, the threat operation center was used as a tip line were parents or school officials could be reported to. the calls were more one-sided than me challenging hire us to a slam-dunk contests. he still owes me 40 bucks. gun owners, republicans and those opposed to vaccine mandates were often targeted, not surprisingly fbi found zero evidence of any terrorist threats. i doubt the doj would spen

it's entirely right and appropriate that doj do this investigation. they have resources and expertise far beyond what local and state law enforcement have. doj has the entire fbi, atf, marshals, and they're bringing in outside experts. even more importantly, doj has integrity, independence, and credibility that i think local and state law enforcement officials in texas have given away. they have given us statements that have been incorrect, inconsistent, and not at all transparent. we need doj to give us answers in the way that the american public can believe and accept. >> right, because we didn't get straight answers last week. they were all contradicted by answers we got later on in the week. elie, do you see this resulting in charges potentially? could it reach that level? >> jim, it's very, very rare to see police officers charged with crimes based on their emergency response. really the only situation we have seen where someone has been charged was in the parkland, florida, shooting where a school security guard was charged with child engarjment

[applause] he also said to you tt politics at doj is no politics in doj and in reading your book that seems to be actually your ethos. you may be reflect a little bit on maybe that there's being a shared value between me you and president bush, right, you know, the attorney general performs a number of different functions, you know one is providing legal advice. and they are you're you are acting as a political official who was politically. sympathetic to the administration and you try to give advice that will you know be in accord with law but also from the standpoint of trying to help the administration get to where it wants to go within the law. the other is as a policy advisor and executing programs like fighting drugs or crime and so forth. that's a political position president wants to do something for political reasons in the crime arena fine. there's nothing wrong with the attorney general acting that way. but the thing that's really sacrosanct in the department of justice. is the enforcement of the criminal law and trying to make sure that there are not different standards fo

no doj memo for the supreme court justices yet. as republicans claim the white house is playing politics with protest. >> the same thing we saw with black lives matter and antifa riots where the left embraced them and now they're embracing mob violence to get their partisan outcome. reporter: white house only going so far to say there has been no violence against the justices and that the president condemns violence. only supporting peaceful protests. congress in the meantime has stepped in. the senate last night approving a bipartisan bill to increase security protections for not only supreme court justices but but also their immediate family members. elizabeth. elizabeth: aishah hasnie thank you so much for your terrific reporting there. it good to see you. welcome to the show congresswoman kat cammack from house homeland security. what is your take on this? why is the president and attorney general garland still silent on this? it's a crime to do this. >> it's a crime but goes against their political agenda, goes against their n

will the committee have the courage to refer him to the doj. plus, it is never a good sign if you are literally burning official documents. that is what trump's former chief of staff reportedly did according to testimony from his former chief assistant. coming up next. assistant assistant coming and it's never too early to learn you could save with america's number one motorcycle insurer. that's right, jamie. but it's not just about savings. it's about the friends we make along the way. u said it, flo. and don't forget to floss before you brush. your gums will thank you. -that's right, dr. gary. -jamie? sorry, i had another thought so i got back in line. what was it? [ sighs ] i can't remember. what happens when performance... meets power? you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy... ...and you like it. you get bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing... and power is a very good thing. ♪ we are america's doctors. and some of us... and power is a very are grandparents too. we want you to know. we

doj is not looking to any possibility wrongdoing in uvalde. what they will do, is still constructed investigation designed to determine an accurate timeline, an independent investigation into what happened, and then use that timeline and what appears to be a terrible failure by law enforcement here to develop best practices, in future incidences. so, this is not something that will bring accountability to the extent that accountability is necessary. instead, it's a tool for law enforcement and an aide for doing better in future settings. which is in so many ways an awfully stout outlook when you think about it. >> ryan and joyce plouffe thank you so much for being with us. a quick reminder that we're waiting for president biden and first lady dr. jill biden to depart uvalde, a live look at garner field, right now both are meeting with first responders before boarding -- for san antonio. when we see the president, we'll bring you live right here on msnbc. live right her on msnbc (grandmother) thank you for taking me home. it's so far. (young wo

what do you know with the doj's involvement? >> that's exactly the kind of evidence that the doj will want to examine as it conducts its review. this is not a criminal investigation. the justice department has many tools at its disposal and they will analyze the law enforcement response to this shooting and try to figure out exact hi what wrong and make recommendations for best practices for other law enforcement agencies going forward. now, this review is actually specifically requested by the city's mayor. not surprisingly seeing how much scrutiny local law enforcement officials have been under for the response to this shooting and also these conflicting timelines and conflicting accounts that we've gotten in the wake of this tragic event. at this pain the "is really the only entity that can come in incredibly suss out what happened here. this review will be conducted by the office of community-oriented policing and it's conducted similar reviews into how police responded to the terrorist attack in san bernardino as well as th

johnson: we're working with the doj now on a legal orientation program. we have received some funding in fy 22 for this effort. and we obviously requested additional funding in fy 23 two expand it to more facilities. but the tablets and some of the other virtual platforms are well underway now at most of our facilities and we're going to continue to roll it out through the rest of the fiscal year. >> mr. fleischman? >> thank you, madam chair. i will be deferential to you, but would you prefer to recess before we go to vote, or should i go ahead and ask? >> i will leave that up to you. >> i have got some proxies did you, i'd feel a little more comfortable if we could recess now and then reconvene after the two votes. mr. director, we have two votes on the floor. one is about ready to conclude and and want to

and also doj has said they will get involved. we do need to look at the response time, what happened and as this unfolds on memorial day, we know that courage is more and courage is going despite your fear. i think all of us are concerned about the response time and what was going on and what the police were thinking of the time of this incident. >> ainsley: and then, you actually talk about the freedom and sacrifice and especially memorial day. even listed and the united states army and for 24 years, tell us what your messages on memorial day. >> i think this is the reason why we remember memorial day. we are called to action that is greater than ourselves. so, memorial day to me and the reason why we honor those who have died in service to our country is that it takes for us to go beyond self-preservation to have that courage to do so, knowing courage does not mean that you don't fear, but that you put something above yourself, whether the love of your country, love of your fellow man. extraordinarily important on this day to r

that a doj probe, what is the standard for a doj probe to find this is not just, oh, we got to better communicate response times and so on, but there was negligent decision making here. that's a question that parents are asking right now. >> yeah. i don't think, jim, we're going to know the answers to that until the review is done. again, it has to be independent. it has to be effective -- excuse me, objective. it has to be comprehensive. nobody can go into it with preconceived ideas. we really have to go in with a blank slate, and interview as many people as possible, review policies and procedures, review training, and do a very slow, methodical, accurate assessment of the situation. >> frank straub, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. >>> canadian prime minister justin trudeau proposing sweeping legislation that'd freeze handgun ownership across canada. >> quick, comprehensive response here. the measure would also force people who own military assault-style weapons, like the ones used in the uvalde shooting, buffalo, and so many others, to enter a buyback program. brynn gi

again, we're talking about the doj case in this instance. this is the group of oathkeepers charged with seditious conspiracy, the most serious charges levied so far and this is an allegation from one of the defendants who is now cooperating about a call that puts him very, in very close proximity so far. >> if you go into d.c. and throw a rock you'll claim a huckster having a direct line to donald trump. some of those people actually do. the number of people to direct lines to the former president includes shall we say quite a cornucopia of characters. we don't know -- we don't know if the person who took the call from stewart rhodes had a direct relationship with trump or if he was just one of many, many scam artists claim to have such a relationship. the good news is it shouldn't be that hard to figure out who was on the other end of that call because it was a phone call presumably there will be records of that phone call somewhere, and there's no question that justice department prosecutors will be trying to track down those phone records

amber, committee has been absorbing the doj being more active, and now the doj is sort of after the fact and ones on the transcript of the interview. i think the january six committee is sort of annoy that they're gearing up before there are major hearings to reveal so much of what they've learned, and the department of justice just wants dirt transcripts before, it's a bit of, some of it seems a bit silly at the end of the day. as you point out, it will take on number of different investments, in teams, in full accountability on january 6th and true accountability can really only come from the department of justice which is only arm that can actually critically prosecute anyone. the january six committee, has very little authority to do much else other than reveal what occurred and passed legislation and recommend legislation. so, there's some frustration my gases after these earrings there will be better coordination, it maybe make sense for all of government, for the country or the january six committee to get these transcripts over, i think they want to have their moment in the sun i

because this isn't a criminal investigation, doj can't subpoena any one of the local law enforcement officials and make them come to a grand jury and testify. they will rely on the chief of police or the mayor ordering people to cooperate and ordering people to tell what they know happened for doj to be able to assemble all the answers and develop a complete report of what happened on that day. so it is crucial that they get direction from the top in the city, and i would say as well as the state. the uvalde police department was not the only law enforcement agency on the scene. it's going to be important that doj talk to every law enforcement, state and local, that responded. >> as we know there's a lot of tension between state and this locality in terms of a local state rep and what you're hearing from the governor certainly and the other top state officials. >> yeah. that's absolutely right. i think what you've seen over the past few days is a lot of finger-pointing among them. one thing i want to add, andrea, i do think it's important. alzheimer's we look at this review as it lau

let's look at two channels the doj will go in and this will take months. you're talking about a report that easily could fit 500 pages. the communications we are talking about with command centers, things like video from the school, but think about all the interviews with the people on scene and the witnesses, especially in those witnesses have cellphone cameras. all those witnesses they're going to be unreliable. they will say different things so the investigators have to spend months sorting out why person a said something and person b said something fundamentally different about the same incident. you have to come back and say, okay, what did we learn from this? then there is a separate secondary question given what we learned and heard are there people there who didn't do the right thing? that's going to be i think one of the most painful parts of this. >> why is it a complicated call, phil, if you have children calling 911 saying there are people who have been shot but there's also people who are alive, clearly at risk, and you have an on-scene comman

let's talk about the doj investigation. before we get to that take a listen to what texas congressman had to say about this report that the district police chief did not have a radio at the time. >> self-preservation out the window there hostages inside. you have to put their safety in front of yours. much higher risk. it is scarier. that appears to be what happened here. it was clearly a scary scenario. we know no why it was not followed. if he does not have a radio, my god, that means he is not getting the word that children are calling 911 from inside. in the announcement of the investigation the release that doj said identify lessons learned and best practices to help first responders prepare for and respond to active shooter event. more than two decades ago after the columbine massacre, so many lessons learned that have been employed in training across police departments all over the country. what are your thoughts that we see this investigation and they are looking into ways to better handle things when everything we