judge david carter has been telling us repeatedly that based on the evidence that he's seen that donald trump and john eastman together have committed two federal felony crimes, a conspiracy to defraud the united states and obstructing an official proceeding, the certification of joe biden's win and he made the claims and legal statement of the preponderance of the evidence, more likely than not. what people need to realize is to indict someone for those precise crimes you need less evidence than 51%. you only need probable cause, and i think the department of justice is about to play catchup with where some of these federal judges already are having evaluated the evidence of crimes by donald trump and his co-conspirators it, and i think the j6 public hearings are going to be the catalyst that we need. once we see the evidence with our own eyes of these crimes. doj will have nowhere to go but to indict these men for what they did. >> because this is not about the past as sandra garza has said. it's about the future, what could happen to us and not what did and what did was horrible. tha

. >> according to federal district judge david carter, former president trump and others likely violated multiple federal laws by engaging this scheme, including conspiracy to defraud the united states. >> the judge evaluated the facts and he reached the conclusion that president trump's efforts to pressure vice president pence to act illegally by refusing to count electoral votes likely violated two federal criminal statutes. >> i have heard you say that you are doubtful that any of this will end in a prosecution. but i haven't heard you say that you believe that trump is innocent. and my question for you is, regardless of whether you think it will happen or will not happen, have you, as a lawyer, seen evidence emerge that could support a prosecution? >> i think that the evidence is still not complete to warrant a prosecution, that the piece of evidence that's needed, and the select committee may well produce it, isnaldrumpg specifically to the peop who were the insurrectionists, "we want you to go do this. i want you to go do this." and so far, that key piece of evidence has not emerge

so to the federal judge, david carter, he said that it was more likely than not that donald trump was a part of a conspiracy to overturn the elections. is that what the hearing is going to lay out, is that with the committee is found? >> yes, the committee has found evidence of concerted planning and premeditated activity. the idea that all of this was just a rowdy demonstration that spontaneously got a little bit out of control, is absurd. you don't almost knock over the u.s. government by accident. so, we're gonna lay out all of the evidence we found, the house resolution 503 charges us with defining what happened on january 6th. explaining the causes of what's happened. and then, ultimately, laying out recommendations that would allow us to fortify ourselves against insurrections moving forward. >> and is donald trump the center of this conspiracy? are you able to connect those dots? >> well, i, you know, people are gonna have to make judgments themselves about the relative role that different people played. i think that donald trump and the white house where at the center of these

as you will see on the screen shortly, judge david carter wrote, quote, the draft memo pushed to strategy that knowingly violated the electoral count act. the judge concluded that quote, the memo is both intimately related to and clearly advanced the plan to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6th, 2021. a few days later, professor john eastman took up. this cause eastman was at the time a law professor at chapman university law school. he prepared a memo outlining the nonsensical theory that the vice president could decide the outcome of the election at the joint session of congress on january 6th. you will see portions of this memo on the screen. in the 1st line, he wrote, quote, 7 states and transmitted dual slaves of electors to the president of the senate. but doctor eastman goes on to rely on those so called dual slates of electors to say that vice president pence could simply declare president from the winner of the 2020 election. mister jacob were there in fact dual slates of electors from 7 states. no, there were none. and just a few days after that, dr. eastman wro

as you will see on the screen shortly, judge david carter wrote, quote, the draft memo pushed to strategy that knowingly violated the electoral count act. the judge concluded that quote, the memo is both intimately related to and clearly advanced the plan to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6th, 2021. a few days later, professor john eastman took up. this cause eastman was at the time a law professor at.

none of this worked, but according to federal district judge david carter, former president, trump, and others likely violated multiple federal laws by engaging in this scheme, including conspiracy to defraud the united states. you will hear evidence of the former president and his top advisers, direct involvement and key elements of this plot are what judge carter called a qu in search of a legal theory for as the judge explained, president trump's pressure campaigned to stop. the electoral count did not end with vice president pence. it targeted every tier of federal and state elected officials, convincing state legislatures, he said to certify competing electors was essential to stop the count and ensure president trump's reelection. as we have seen in our prior hearings running through this scheme was a big lie that the election was played with massive fraud and somehow stolen. you'll remember what present the president's own attorney general bill bar said he told the president about these claims of massive fraud affecting the outcome of the election hand. ah, i told him that the st

district court judge david carter. this was, quote, a coup in search of a legal theory. thank you, mr. chairman, and i yield back. >> i want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. the members of the select committee may have additional questions for today's witnesses, and we ask that you respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. without objection, members will be permitted ten business days to submit statements for the record, including opening remarks and additional questions for the witnesses. the second panel of witnesses is now dismissed. [inaudible conversations] >> without objection the chair recognizes the gentlewoman from california, ms. lofgren, for a closing statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. now that we understand the litigation efforts by president trump and his allies i would like to present additional actions taken by the trump campaign during this time. president trump continued to push the stolen election narrative, even though he and his allies knew that their litigation efforts, making the same claim, had failed. it's worth pointing

and so judge david carter of california believes the former president and others were engaged in likely multiple criminal acts. and so if the justice department con occurs with judge carter, let alone my own view or others, they should be pursuing that. and so, yes, i think there is sufficient evidence to open an investigation and it would be of you up to the justice department ultimately to decide does that evidence rise to proof beyond a reasonable doubt such that they're comfortable indicting someone. but there's certainly in my view enough evidence to open up investigations. >> as the chairman of the house intelligence committee, i got to get your take on president biden's trip to saudi arabia in july after promising to turn the country into the pariah of the middle east. we're told he's going to meet with the man intelligence officials say is responsible for the brutal murder of jamal khashoggi. is this a mistake? >> i think it is. i wouldn't go. i wouldn't shake his hand. i want nothing to do with him. and i understand the president has to deal with a whole variety of difficult is

steph, we should pay more attention to the fact that a federal judge in california, david carter, has announced in his rulings multiple times that there is proof by a preponderance of the evidence, 51% of the evidence, that donald trump and john eastman together committed federal felonies of -- >> okay, glenn -- >> [inaudible] official proceeding and conspiracy to defraud the united states. those are important findings. >> i'm with you, but think about the american people. we are saying, the american people, who have been waiting five plus years for trump to pay the consequences for anything, you are saying, they need to pay attention to a ruling from a judge in california? who said something that hasn't resulted in anything? come on? >> they need to pay attention to what the select committee is going to present to them, just as we would present the case to the jury. it's going to be compelling, riveting. it's going to be linear. i think if they sit and they absorb it, they are going to come to the same conclusion, that these wrongdoers need to be held accountable. >> jeremy, we keep

>> i sure think david carter seems to have gotten it right when he was litigating the john eastman e-mail. he concluded that and he found they committed a sect federal. boy, the evidence we saw about john eastman's apparently criminal conduct, even conceding he knew some of what he was suggesting, and saying let's do it anywhere, you know, it feels like the investigative circle can't get much tighter, and he is in real. garrett, obviously everyone wants to know if there's culpability for the former much, and he suggested he never suggested to vice president pence to overturn the election. i guess that would mean everybody testifies before the committee is lying. >> reporter: while he may be trying to split hairs, but say the election results be returned to the states, he wasn't asking that done for pure academic study. everything he has said in the intervening year and a half is that he thinking the eis stolen, and he should still by president. taken on its own, that tweet might have the narrowest sliver of truth to it in what he specifically said to mike pence, but taken across the lengt

>> this re-enforces the earlier ruling that we all heard from the federal judge in california, david carter, who decided by a preponderance of the evidence that donald trump together with john eastman committed at least two federal felonies. one, obstructing the official proceeding, the certification of joe biden's win, and the other, a conspiracy to defraud or commit offenses against the united states. i happen to think that there's now a third conspirator who would fit comfortably between donald trump and john eastman in that finding, and that would be mark meadows based on some of what we learned. i tell you, joy, there was a marquee line, one of the most incriminated things we have heard yet that was disclosed in today's hearing. i would make it the centerpiece of a prosecution of donald trump. that was after trump was advised that the crowd was armed with rifles and handguns and knives and brass knuckles, he said, i don't care. take down the f'ing metal detectors because they're not here to hurt me. in courtrooms around the country every day, joy, jurors are told that they can i

it seems that judge david carter's ruling that more likely than not that eastman and trump committed felonies feels like the bombshell of the century after today. >> we have gone way past that. judge luttig said revolution. we were as frank putts it 40 feet away from a situation in which the vice president of the united states and the speaker of the house, the two people in line for presidency after trump could have been torn limb from limb. that is like -- that makes the french reign of terror look like a nice game of tennis. it was -- i think you're seeing everyone's stunned reaction to it. as we learned monday that there was ever an iota of any legitimacy and learned today and it was dry to some was that this wasn't just a farfetched theory. it was intellectually contemptible made up out of whole cloth and trump embraced it and the more harrowing consequences almost ensued. i find myself still breathless in the wake of this hearing. >> it was and again i think some of the separation from taking us to law school in that first hour and then showing us almost an staccato bit of testi

but according to federal district judge david carter, former president trump and others likely violated multiple federal laws by engaging in this scheme, including conspiracy to defraud the united states. you will hear evidence of the former president and his top advisers' direct involvement in key elements of the plot, what judge carter called a coup in search of a legal theory. as the judge explained, president trump's pressure campaign to stop the electoral count did not end with vice president pence. it targeted every tier of federal and state elected officials, convincing state legislatures, he said, to certify competing electors was essential to stop the count and ensure president trump's re-election. as we have seen in our prior hearings, running through this scheme was a big lie that the election was plagued with massive fraud and somehow stolen. you'll remember what the president's own attorney general, bill barr, said he told the president about these claims of massive fraud affecting the outcome of the election. >> and i told him that the stuff that his people were shovelling

federal judge david carter or two john eastman to release documents that the january six committee, even though eastman claimed attorney client privilege protect those documents. the judge ordered them release released because, he says, that although he was acting as donald trump's lawyer when he was advising donald trump, that vice president mike pence could simply disregard electoral votes on january 6th, during congress's official count of the electoral votes, judge carter said that because the attorney client privilege does not cover possible planning to commit crimes, the documents that the committee obtained from eastman could not be protected by the attorney client privilege. clarence thomas is the only supreme court justice who voted to block documents from trump white house chief of staff mark meadows being delivered from to the january six committee at the time that clarence thomas tried to block those documents from being transmitted it was not publicly known that his wife was in frequent communication with mark meadows and that her communications could be included in the docu

david carter, who is the same federal judge, that essentially stays back there are coconspirator tours and say that they committed multiple crimes including to firing the american people and trying to saw halt a proceeding. emails were only turned over to the committee last week. there was about 400 of them. carter said that around ton of them were especially relevant and communications with the heart profile leader. we know that some of the emails that have been reviewed revealed jenny thomas's efforts in overturning the election. they are wider than previously known. because of that the committee is now discussing whether or not to explore the role that she played. this has to become to begin with an issue about a voluntary request. previously, i think there was a number of issues at play. there is a come meal and of -- it did not cause the majority of lawmakers to say yes, we need to bring her in. those were the minority. there was a fear that there could be a distraction and that because it was not enough evidence, and because jenny thomas is such a fire brain, especially at this m

district judge david carter said trump most likely committed a felony. >> select committee will examine president trump's relentless effort on january 6th and in the days beforehand to pressure vice president pence to refuse to count lawful, electoral votes. as a federal judge has indicated, this likely violated two federal criminal statutes. >> judge carter found that a memo written by trump attorney john eastman influenced his plans for vice president pence to prevent the certification of electoral votes and likely furthered two crimes that trump may have committed. obstruction of an official proceeding and conspiracy to defraud the united states. former acting solicitor general for the obama administration agrees, arguing there are more areas in which trump could face prosecution. the georgetown law professor lays out the future criminal case against donald trump. he outlines three charges that attorney general merrick garland could bring against trump and they include, obstruction of official proceeding, conspiracy to defraud the united states and seditious conspiracy. there is the

also, new emails that the federal judge david carter ordered the turnover, 440 new emails detailing his involvement with the effort to overturn the election. also, a new bunch of archives coming from the national archives, twice as many as the committee previously made. that will be turned over as well. >> so, one of the questions i think that so many people at home are trying to figure out is, in this last week, we have heard of six members of congress, that sought pardons. i think the congressman leading that conversation basically said, you do not seek a pardon unless you may feel that you are doing something against the law. what is going to happen to them? >> yes. that is a really good question. and you know, obviously, i am not a lawyer. but the fact that these members of congress were preemptively asking for blanket pardons raises a lot of questions about the way that they viewed their actions, and it suggests some degree of potential guilt. of course, this is not positive by a means, but it does raise questions about the nature of their activities, the extent of their activities

nobody has to take our word for it, zerlina, a federal judge, david carter, has already ruled by preponderance of the evidence, that donald trump and john eastman committed those crimes. but based on all of the evidence that the january 6th investigation has amassed, we're also looking at inciting insurrection, we're all lasalle looking at a conspiracy -- which the proud boys have already been indicted for. and i think part of what drives all of that home, and the connective tissue that pulls it out of that together. is that we are going to see, for donald trump for three hours, refusing to place a single phone call to send forces to protect the capital, even though he knew the capitol was under attack. we are learned last night that mike pence had to step into that breach. was he overstepping his authority? perhaps. thanks good he did. but because it sure looks like that donald trump was fine with people at the capitol being hurt, and perhaps worse. and mike pence, perhaps borne of self preservation because he was under attack. he at least made the call that donald trump did not make. and he

>> well, you know, again, look, i have said for some time that i agreed with david carter, the federal judge in california, that this plot to overturn the election likely violated multiple federal laws. now, it's one thing to say there's evidence to begin an investigation, it's another th thing to say is there proof beyond a reasonable doubt. that latter judgment is one for the department of justice to make, but i think these issues have to be investigated by the department. some of them, those who broke into the capitol are under investigation and prosecution, but the plot went beyond those that were in the capitol that day, and i do think those allegations merit investigation by the department. >> today, we heard a lot about this scheme to have states submit slates of fraudulent electors. and i suppose the hope was that vice president pence or somehow the confusion would allow pence or the congress to throw this back to the states and thus allowing trump to hold on to power. we finally heard of donald trump's involvement in this scheme, direct involvement, and we heard this from the

this isn't rocket science, this shouldn't be so hard, donald trump according to that judge, david carter, was illegally obstructing congress and conspiring to defraud the u.s. government. as well as the judge said, john eastman, there is a reason why we discover this week the 16 committee that the trump legal advisor, eastman, trying to hop on the pardon list, if that still in the works he asked. -- and a meme was born. and the other human being in this scenario, would be denying all that, would be running from the cameras, keeping their head down. but not donald trump, the man that incited a mob to assault congress, to keep himself in power, and failed to do so. now says that if he succeeds in returning to power, he'll pardon the members of that group. i can't make this stuff up. >> most people, should definitely not be treated the way that you've been treated. and if i become president, some day if i decide to do it, i will be looking at them very, very seriously for pardons. very, very seriously. [applause] >> donald trump hadn't even won the white house, when he declared that he can

federal judge david carter of course has said that on multiple times on the basis of his view of a far more limited set of evidence than what the committee possesses. so my point is that, you know, a president doesn't get a pass. and particularly if the department of justice takes the position as it did while he was president that you can't indict a sitting president, to then take the position as a practical or prudential matter that would be too controversial or perceive the as political to investigate criminal activity, potential criminal activity of a former president confers kind of immunity on the president, which is a dangerous idea. >> but we've obviously heard statements like this in the recent past about president trump, that he did something criminal. we've seen the former president investigated before. you were obviously involved in some of those cases and criminally so far nothing has been proven in a court of law. >> well, it's certainly true that he hasn't been charged with a crime. now, there are multiple investigations going on, so that might change. my point is, though

district court judge david carter, this was "a coup in search of a legal theory." thank you, mr. chairman, and i yield back. >> i want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. the members of the select committee may have additional questions for today's witnesses, and we ask that you respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. without objection, members will be permitted to ten business days to submit statements for the record, including opening remarks and additional questions for the witnesses. the second panel of witnesses is now dismissed. without objection, the chair recognizes the gentle woman from california, ms. lofgren, for a closing statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. now that we understand the litigation efforts by president trump and his allies, i would like to present additional action taken by the trump campaign during this time. president trump continued to push the stolen election narrative even though he and his allies knew that their litigation efforts making the same claim had failed. it is worth pointing out that litigation generally does not c

a federal judge, david carter, has ruled repeatedly after seeing evidence that both donald trump and one of his corrupt lawyers, eastman, have committed federal felonies. one of them is a three 71 conspiracy. it is a conspiracy to defraud and commit offenses against the united states. the other one is obstructing an official proceeding. this is the certification of joe biden. importantly, judge carter made his rulings by a preponderance of the evidence, more likely that, not a 51%. to indict someone for a crime, you only need probable cause. that is significantly less than a preponderance of the evidence. even before the hearings kicked off, i maintain that there is enough evidence to hold donald trump accountable in a court of law for the crimes he committed against the united states. >> glenn, you and i know, when you aim for the king, you best not met miss. you have to have beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt to convict. do you think this is a problem here? someone like donald trump, i would use the word, savvy, this is too much credit. he never put anything in w

district judge david carter wrote back in march, this was always a coup in seven of a legal theory. even the trump lawyer who pushed this seditious scheme, john eastman, admitted it was illegal and requested a preemptive presidential pardon. on the history front, there is talk of the 1876 election, popular vote versus electoral vote split. the deadlock with alternate slates of electors with a corrupt bargaining reconstruction in exchange for a term in the white house. now, rarely is this invoked as a positive example of anything. trump lawyers thought they could exploit a loophole to stay in power, which is nonsense but should still provide urgency for bipartisan talks to reform that act at the very least. perhaps the ultimate expression of how january 6th breaks the historic mold is that we have broken our addiction to parallels to water gate. despite this marking the 50th anniversary of what started the investigation. the crime and coverup seems small by comparison. trump only succeeded in making nixon look great again. ultimately, senate republicans stood up to nixon, told him it

carter in california, issuing a ruling that by a preponderance of the evidence, donald trump together with don eastman were involved in a conspiracy to defraud or commit offenses against the united states. if we see that evidence presented over the course of these j6 hearings, the department of justice will have to act. they will have to indict the people responsible for those crimes, because if they don't, and i'm sad to say it because doj was my professional home for decades, i retired from the department of justice. if they don't hold these people accountable, then they will lose their legitimacy, their credibility as the federal government's premiere law enforcement organization. >> glenn, allie, yamiche, thank you for being with us this morning. >>> turning to the gun violence we have in our country. right now in uvalde, the district superintendent is holding a press conference. texas house of representatives committee holds a hearing with law enforcement officials about the robb elementary school massacre. and on capitol hill, the push to take action on gun violence is intensify

as you will see on the screen shortly, judge david carter wrote, quote, the draft memo pushed a strategy that knowingly violated the electoral count act. the judge concluded that, quote, the memo is both intimately related to and clearly advanced the plan to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6th, 2021. a few days later, professor john eastman took up this cause. eastman was at the time a law professor at chapman university law school. he had a memo outlining the nonsensical theory that the vice president could decide the outcome of the election at the joint session of congress on january 6th. you will see portions of this memo on the screen. in the first line, he wrote, quote, seven states have transmitted dual slates of electors to the president of the senate. doctor eastman goes on to rely on those so-called dual states of electors to say that vice president pence could simply declare president trump the winner of the 2020 election. mr. jacob, where they're in fact dual slates of electors from seven states? >> no, they were not. >> just a few days after that, dr. eastma

that ruling we keep referencing from judge david carter, the california district judge who ultimately has ordered that john eastman turn over his emails to the select committee, which they've recently received and are now sort of recalibrating in order to feature that in their public hearings, but john eastman asked for a pardon via email. he was the person who was responsible for this legal theory, for exploiting the quote, unquote, ambiguity of the 12th amendment, and saying that the vice president could unilaterally -- had the power to unilaterally halt or delay the electoral certification, send it back to the states. what you heard yesterday from judge luttig, in particular, is there is no ambiguity in the electoral count act. you know, trump was told time and time again that it was unconstitutional, not legally viable. you even had specific examples where john eastman ultimately came to the conclusion that maybe his plan, you know, wouldn't work anyway and that it wasn't viable, as well. which leads us back to where we started, joe, which is what you said, intent. this is what th

as you will see on the screen shortly, judge david carter wrote, quote, the draft memo pushed a strategy that knowingly violated the electoral count act. the judge concluded that, quote, the memo is both intimately related to and clearly advanced the plan to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6th, 2021. a few days later, professor john eastman took up this cause. eastman was at the time a law professor at chapman university law school. he had a memo outlining the nonsensical theory that the vice president could decide the outcome of the election at the joint session of congress on january 6th. you will see portions of this memo on the screen. in the first line, he wrote, quote, seven states have transmitted dual slates of electors to the president of the senate. doctor eastman goes on to rely on those so-called dual states of electors to say that vice president pence could simply declare president trump the winner of the 2020 election. mr. jacob, where they're in fact dual slates of electors from seven states? >> no, they were not. >> just a few days after that, dr. eastma

>> this re-enforces the earlier ruling that we all heard from the federal judge in california, david carter, who decided by a preponderance of the evidence that donald trump together with john eastman committed at least two federal felonies, one obstructing the official proceeding, the certification of joe biden's win and the other a conspiracy to commit a fraud or conspiracy against the united states. i happen to think there's a third conspirator could fit comfortably and that would be mark meadows based on some of what we learned. i'll tell you, joy, there was a marquee line, one of the most incriminating things we heard yet that was disclosed in today's hearing. i would make it the centerpiece of a prosecution of donald trump and that was after trump was advised that the crowd was armed with rifles and handguns and knives and brass knuckles, he said, i don't care. take down the f'ing metal detecters because they're not here to hurt me. in courtrooms around the country everyday, joy, jurors are told that they can infer what that means. it obviously means donald trump believed they

district court judge, david carter, this was, quote, a coup in search of a legal theory. thank you, mister chairman, i yield back. >> i want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. the members of the select committee may have additional questions for today's witnesses. we ask that you respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. without objection, members will be permitted ten business days to submit statements for the record, including opening remarks and additional questions for the witnesses. the second panel of witnesses is now dismissed. without objection, the chair recognizes the woman from california, miss lofgren, for a closing statement. >> thank you, mister chairman. now that we understand the litigation efforts by president trump and his allies, i would like to present additional actions taken by the trump campaign during this time. president trump continued to push this stolen election narrative even though he and his allies knew that their litigation efforts, making the same claim, had failed. that is worth pointing out that litigation generally

as you will see on this screen shortly, judge david carter wrote "the draft memo pushed a strategy that knowingly violated the electoral count act". the judge concluded" clearly advance the plan to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6, 2021." a few days later professor john eastman took up this cause. eastman was at the time a law professor at chapman university law school. he prepared a memo outlining the nonsensical theory that the vice president could decide the outcome of the election at the joint session of congress on january 6th. you will see portions of this memo on the screen. in the first line he wrote "seven states have transmitted dual slates of electors to the president of the senate." but dr. eastman goes on to rely on those so-called dual slates of electors to say that vice president pence could simply declare president trump the winner of the 2020 election. from jacob, were there, in fact, dual slates of electors from seven states? >> no, there were not. >> and just a few days after that, dr. eastman wrote another memo, this one "war gaming out several sce

none of this work but according to federal district judge david carter former president trump and others likely violated multiple federal laws by engaging in this scheme including conspiracy to defraud the united states . we will hear evidence of the former president and his top advisers direct involvement in key elements of this plot for which judge carter called a coup in search of a legal theory . for as the judge explained president trump's pressure campaign to stop the electoral count did not end with vice president pence. it targeted every tear of federal and state elected officials convincing state legislatures he said to certify competing electors was essential to stop the count and ensure president trump's reelection. as we have seen in our prior hearings, running through this scheme was a big lie that the election was plagued with massive fraud and somehow stolen. you willremember what the president's own attorney general bill barr told the president about the outcome of the election .>> and i told them that the stuff that his people were shoveling out to the public was bullshi