lincoln and frederick douglass. now in our next presenter's book, he tells the little known story of how two american heroes moved from strong disagreement to friendship and how that process changes the entire course of history. i am pleased talking to the stage new york times the best-selling author and fox news host mr. brian kilmeade. as much as as much as i enjoy the standing ovation when you start with a standing ovation, you'd only go backwards. so that's what i worry. so i appreciate everybody being here tonight. i've never been invited to a book festival. so to be invited was great to have a book ready to go with fantastic, and i'm so glad everything lined up to be here in a beautiful saturday, and there's no kentucky basketball scrimmage that's keeping all of you busy. that would allow you to show up. but i think we have a few things in common. i don't care about politics. i think we all love the country. we also know where we come from has not been perfect. it's not been a straight line, but we always get

frederick douglass born a slave. his best friends growing up were white kids because he go kids did not care and frederick douglass in the 1840s rights i think it will take a generation for to live and die before they realize there is nodifference between the races . we have a few more but that is why we protest as i digress third-graders and why we care so much what they learn. because they told us it matters. [applause] abraham lincoln one year of formal schooling. one year combined. he never could sit in the classroom. his dad says i'm suspiciousof those people that learn to do the reading and writing . that's what he was up against but he never stopped reading. he had the reputation of a great intellect, great kindness, great strength and then he said i'm going to become a lawyer. not a lot of political connections with abraham lincoln. he started running to become a one term congressman. nobody is looking at lincoln to lead to freedom through the most difficult times. for frederick douglass he's gotto escape for

and that's frederick douglass. and we've been talking a lot about frederick douglass, recently, especially since david blight wrote that brilliant lincoln prize winning biography a few years ago, frederick douglass has moved back to the front of the conversation. so i want to talk about douglass a little bit, and maybe use some of the last of our time to dig deep on frederick douglass and abraham lincoln. now, they may have had the most controversial relationship, i think, of any african american historical figure and lincoln. i've seen the exact same quotes from douglass used to prove that douglass liked lincoln, or hated lincoln. so before we talk about the specific meetings or anything like that, can you tell us about, what do we think, or what have we thought about douglass and lincoln, why has that been so controversial? >> that is a great question. i think that a lot about what we think about douglass and lincoln comes from douglass's speech at the dedication of the lincoln statue in washington, d. c., which

(laughter) frederick douglass -- no, not frederick douglass -- (inaudible) freudian slip, big time! that's another pitch of one. by the name steven douglas's birth name, two s is. he dropped that around the late 18 (inaudible), late 50s, i wonder why? >> frederick douglass. >> anyway, stephen douglas was reinforcing white supremacy and lincoln was doing what he could to shape his population shake his constituents loose of that but just reminding something they knew in the heart of hearts, that black people had the same rights as white people. and guess what? there people. >> if an african american moved into the free state of illinois, i think it was $50. if they couldn't pay the $50, they would be auctioned off. and someone could purchase their labor until the date was paid. and we think about the free state of illinois, not really free in the way we normally think. i want to come over to you. we see changes in lincoln's policies and possessions over the course of the political career. can you talk about that evolution? and how do we account for it? and it's great that you started

and i told this person about this meeting with frederick douglass. in freeing the slaves in this way. before lincoln's out of office it has nothing to do with winning the war it has nothing to do with military necessity has everything to do with spreading freedom and douglas recognized that in this moment that lincoln's heart was fully in emancipation and then the third meeting very briefly is on march 4th 1865 after lincoln's second inaugural inauguration. they go back to the white house for a party douglas shows up with an african american woman. they try to go in the guards won't let them in finally douglas is able to get in and he realizes that the guards are very quickly taking him to another exit and he demands to be able to see lincoln and lincoln he tells someone go tell the president that frederick douglass is here and lincoln comes over. so there's my friend douglas and lincoln asks douglas. what did you think of my speech and douglas so you don't care what i think and and lincoln says there's no man. who's who's opinion? i'd rather have an

and for for just for frederick douglas to say well lincoln bridge to say that impressed frederick douglass very profoundly as well. it might and it wouldn't have sounded out a place in the in the mouth of a presbyterian minister say reflecting on on the nation's ordeal of the war. but for a president to say that is truly extraordinary and i think that douglas is understanding of that and how how radical it was and how deep it was and how how much it reflected his sense of justice and his compassion for blacks i think is truly remarkable and therefore that that paragraph deserves to be more carefully scrutinized than the more famous final that immediately follows it thank you for calling our attention to it and thank you for reading it. noah feldman the second inaugural. i strongly agree with michael and his emphasis on that paragraph. i would say that that paragraph amounts to what we would call the political theology of the united states and a political theology is the use of religious ideas distinctively religious ideas to explain political events and to give them meaning and i think wha

frederick douglass may have translocated himself. he may have physically fled his legal owner but in the eyes of the law, he's an outlaw. he's outside of the law's protection. he goes to the united kingdom and for two years. he's there giving speeches selling copies of his autobiography and it's not until friends of his on both sides of the pond pay 150 pounds sterling 700 and some odd dollars in american cash. it's not until in the eyes of the law. he has been manated is he able to return to the united states in 1847 and live as a free man now, there's still a fugitive slave act, of course and in 1850, it makes it incredibly difficult for a free black person to be secure in his freedom for all the reasons we know but the point is you need the law. you need the government to do its job and so it's both lincoln as the great emancipator making it a part of the effort and as he puts it in the emancipation proclamation and act of justice so you have to have the action and the initiative of the enslaved. liberating themselves physically,

he had a long-standing relationship with frederick douglass. in relation, his oldest daughter apparently taught in the industrial school in washington, which was a school for the children of freed men and women. it was her charitable interest but then she died of typhoid fever and he had an anguished letter where he said every day will beeryai preserved to her legacy and it really was during the heart and soul of the family. but i think he was influenced by her concern. he spoke at washington's metropolitan it would meet regularly with black lawyers. there was the case that he intervened in pretty much single-handedly to try to make sure the officials that had allowed the lynching to take place were prosecuted so his efforts were way beyond his relationship with robert harlan. so, clearly he was committed to the equality of african-americans and he believed that this was a way of repairing b the damages. he came to believe equality under the law is caused the civil war and almost destroyed the experiment. he was deeply committed to enforcing in

and beyond that he also had a deep respect for frederick doug las. -- frederick douglass. he had a longstanding relationship with frederick douglass. his eldest daughter, edith, taught in the bethel industrial school in washington which was a school for the children of freed men and women to teach them industrial skills and hope to get them jobs. andem it was her charitable interest, but then she died of typhoid fever at age 26. and harlan wrote an anguished letter where he said every minute of every day is going to be devoted to preserving her legacy. she was really the heart and soul of the family. so i think he was influenced by her care and concern for african-american children. later in his life he spoke frequently at washington's met to propoll tan ame -- metro propoll tan, and he met, he would meet regularly with black lawyers. there was a case that, a horrific lynching case that he intervened many pretty much single-handedly to try to make sure that city officials who had allowed this legislation to take place were prosecuted. so his efforts on behalf of african-am

douglass, a long-standing relationship. in addition to his eldest daughter apparently taught in the industrial school in washington which was a school for the children of freed men fd women to teach skills to help them get a job. but then she died of typhoid fever at 26 and he had a letter that said every minute of every day is going to be devoted to preserving her legacy. he was the heart and soul of the family. but the concern he spoke at the metropolitan and they had allowed for the lynchings to take place were prosecuted so his efforts went way beyond his relationship with robert harlan. he believed that this was a way of repairing the damage. it almost destroyed the government and so he was deeply committed to enforcing equality. and it was the moment when he believed the civil war was inevitable and all that he worked for was falling apart. he understood what it meant for the supreme court to get it wrong so unlike a lot of these other justices that are a challenge, we look to these cases in terms of who was being har

well grant was spoused by frederick douglass even more than douglas espous lincoln. doug frederick douglass campaigned for grant in both 1868 and 1872 and i'm reminded of the story that at the end of the election in 1872 a group of african americans from philadelphia came to the white house and they said they wanted to come to thank president grant what they said was you are the first president elected by the whole people you represent finally that epitome of our republican values. well grant responded and he said well i fully empathize with what you're saying. it seems to me that every person should have a right to travel on any conveyance railroad that they want and then he made this really remarkable statement, but i believe that every american should have the right to vote. because when ron talks about the ku klux klan, they're real effort was to stop the voting. this was voter suppression. this is a white terrorist organization to stop voter suppression of why because they would vote republican. they would vote 80 to 90 percent republican. so grant then goes on

he was mentored by frederick douglass and george washington carver. he had no education. he learned to read on the sharecroppers. he rot back to ned williams the education. and what was important to us. poll tax receipts. voting. right now, people talk about reparations. i don't care about reparations. i care about our kids learning to vote and their rights. the man before you, he did make a statement about we need to do better and not let the government take care of us. we don't vote. in texas, it's the worst voting area. what used to be some of the best voting. i have to disagree with sheila jackson lee. host: hold on the line. do you have any questions? guest: i think the idea of family, she talks about her family growing up. she talks about growing up in texas and her memories of making food with the family, having the discussion with the family. i think family is hugely important when we think about juneteenth and emancipation date. in texas, it's especially important. i live in texas now. black texans have not gotten there do in terms of the history of civil rights

how come nobody seems to have noticed horace greeley frederick douglass are still arguing for a firm? emancipation policy in september of 1862 where they just not in the loop as to what the government was actually doing as far as emancipation is concerned or am i not in the loop? it's a very interesting question and i've struggled with it myself. i am in the process of writing an article based on a wide sampling of newspaper and diary reactions to general benjamin butler's contraband ruling in the late may of 1861 in which lincoln's order response to the contraband policy was as you know to send a letter telegram to butler in in fortress monroe saying your decision not to return to fugitive slaves is is approved. that that telegram was reprinted in newspapers all around the country and republican newspapers accompanied with editorial saying we told you so we told you you wouldn't get your fugitive slaves back and southern newspapers published it and with editorial saying we told you so we told you they wanted to keep our fugitive slaves and wouldn't return them that they would emancip

frederick douglass, still arguing for a firmaments beijing policy in september of 1862. are they just not in the loop as to what the government was actually doing? as far as the mensa patient is concerned? or am i not love? >> it's a very interesting question, i struggled with it myself. i've been the process of writing an article based on a wide sampling of newspaper and diary reactions to general benjamin butlers contraband ruling in late may of 1861. in which lincoln's order response to the contraband policy was, as you note, to send a letter telegram to butler in fortress, monroe, saying your decision not to return fugitive slaves is approved. that telegram was reprinted in newspapers all around the country, and republican newspapers, accompanied by editorial saying, we told you so, we tell you you wouldn't get your fugitive slaves back. and southerners papers published it at, with editorial saying, we told you, so we told you they wanted to keep a fugitive slaves and wouldn't return them. that they would emancipate them. so, there is a sense that it was known but it

interesting camera angle has come forth look at this this is frederick douglass bridge in the booth, help me what we're seeing this is a lone demonstrator on top of frederick douglass bridge but it appears colors of ukraine. this is in washington, of course we'll see a lot of this sort of thing. play book for this, we planned for this sort of thing as a network, larger network nbc universal, we want to be able to be eyes and ears for you and viewers across our platforms so we set troops into motion across the country to try to take the pulse of the nation in big cities and small, rural areas and in seats of power and on the farms we spread our resources out, will be able to watch a lot of the nation for you and give you that insight today that was one picture, one person on top of frederick douglass bridge hopefully not too much of that with us now, professor of law at rutgers law school good for you to be here. >> thank you. >> top thoughts on what we have seen, what's to come >> we were expecting this, knew it was going to come down. now that it is here, it is exactly as disastrous

as i mentioned before, gregory douglas -- frederick douglass, booker t. washington, demonstrated how important it is to take the handcuffs off. host: eric and washington, d.c. good morning. caller: good morning. this gentleman had a good -- a book, you get your money the best way you can. but, what i get is, we -- he keep thinking we keep blaming people for -- it is not happening, but it is. tell stash stop telling me the sky is dark but it is blue. i am 60 years old. i am not going to degrade you, i do not care how you get your cash. let's give a real example. in washington, d.c. area, there was a predominantly white community. as soon as other folks started moving in, guess where they went. they went across the bridge. the same as d.c., i blame our people because what we have to do is stand up. we are standing up for ourselves. we are asked some angst can be rate -- right. stop using the black men in the house crap. so what if a lot of people do not have fathers in the house. he may not be in the house, but he is in the -- his life. he may not be in the

he was mentored by frederick douglass. and george washington carver. he had no education but he learned to read from the sharecroppers. and then he brought back to ned e. williams, a little country school. the education. and what was important to us. tax receipts. and voting. right now, people talk about reparations. i don't care about reparations. would i care about is our kids learning to vote. and their rights. and demanding for you, mr. allen, he did make a statement about we need to do better. and not let the government take care of us. we don't vote. here in texas, it's the worst voting ever. what's used to be some of the best voting. and i have to disagree with sheila jackson. >> just hold on the line, peniel joseph do you have any questions or reactions to what you heard from anna? >> i think the idea of family. really a book, juneteenth, where she talks about her family growing up. in texas, in congress, texas. her memories of making food with the family, having the discussions with the family, parades, the barbecue, the homemade food. so i th

you cannot have 30 some pages on francis out ellen watkins harper frederick douglass. only received 25. so i called john hope franklin and he said yes, that's why nobody knows who she is. and that's why she deserves those pages. and so i said well it doesn't have to be there. i was famous for just pulling things. and so i i pulled it and and that sat there then until we did that conference. so it was written much earlier. um, so in terms of 1837, we thought that we should find people and we should trace it through this history through from 1837 right on up into the more recent period of that time and that's what we did. we had no idea that this was going to turn into a major book. but 19 18 37 was a beginning point, but as lisa tetrault has explained and others now who have published so many books. we know far more now than we knew then but what we wrote the scholars wrote. about black women these two were seminal works for all of those people. some of them were working on dissertations and all kinds of things. so that's how we came to that point. now martha has has wr

when we think of independent day like frederick douglass said what the negroes the fourth of july in his famous 1852 speech in rochester, new york. there was always a con stra dix with 1776 because of racial slavery and because women couldn't vote because of what the country had done and settlers had done to native american peoples as well. so juneteenth provides us a context to really become a new nation. abraham lincoln and frederick douglass really all called it a second american founding because it's through juneteenth not just black people but all americans in the 21st century have the concept of birthright citizenship. we have voting rights even though those are under assault and this idea of dignity and freedom. when we think of juneteenth we have to think about those americans who are black and enslaved as patriots alongside the heroes of the american revo revolution. because of the january 6th hearings and the anti-crt legislation passed that really precludes millions of our young people from learning this history this matters now more than ever. we have to think to ourselve

as i mentioned before, gregory douglas -- frederick douglass, booker t. washington, demonstrated how important it is to take the handcuffs off. host: eric and washington, d.c. good morning. caller: good morning. this gentleman had a good -- a book, you get your money the best way you can. but, what i get is, we -- he keep thinking we keep blaming people for -- it is not happening, but it is. tell stash stop telling me the sky is dark but it is blue. i am 60 years old. i am not going to degrade you, i do not care how you get your cash. let's give a real example. in washington, d.c. area, there was a predominantly white community. as soon as other folks started moving in, guess where they went. they went across the bridge. the same as d.c., i blame our people because what we have to do is stand up. we are standing up for ourselves. we are asked some angst can be rate -- right. stop using the black men in the house crap. so what if a lot of people do not have fathers in the house. he may not be in the house, but he is in the -- his life. he may not be in the

douglass who were demanding the right for african americans to be able to join this war and fight for freedom. in the south you had absolute reluctance total reluctance as you can imagine of arming the enslaved for this war to to maintain slavery. so although you have the myth of black confederate soldiers. it's a myth what you really have? is that when you see those pictures, those are the enslaved who were brought with the officers with the white officers. those were the enslaved who were supporting the officers in terms of of their boots and of their equipment and things like that those weren't soldiers and it was only like in march of 1865 when the confederacy is on its last leg gasping for air that they said, okay. finally we can arm the enslaved but by that time it was too late. carol anderson those of us have a certain age. you spoke about photos remember photos of the black panthers in the 60s with arms? what was their role in helping further this or hurting the cause yes, so what we see here with the black panthers. is that the black panthers were really came out of the conce

so grant in his presidency stands for them frederick douglass who had a kind of a not quite sure attitude towards abraham lincoln campaigned for grant in both 1868 and 1872. and i conclude the story of his presidency by this to me remarkable story. in 1872 after his resent reelection a group of african americans from philadelphia came to thank him. they said to him you are the first president elected by the whole people. they wanted him to know that he was the practical establishment of our republic. gun theories grant responded in your desire to obtain all the rights of citizens. i fully sympathize. he spelled out what he meant a ticket on a railroad or other conveyance should entitle you to all that it does other men. i wish that every voter of the united states should stand in all respects alike. it must come. it would be 90 years before it began to come grant was the last president to stand up for african americans. senator blunt in his remarks mentioned the first plan to build this wonderful monument theodore roosevelt in 1900 offered the words that he said, but i'm going to go furth

., protester climbed to the top of the frederick douglass bridge and slept there. he scaled the bridge to bring attention to abortion rights finally came down this afternoon and was taken into custody. on friday protesters in new york city were arrested after the walking streets blocking traffic in manhattan. los angeles lapd it arrest the crowd kept going and chicago, lines, i mean lines of protesters were in the streets. some say it's a big step in the right direction and pledge to fight back. >> this is an politicized, it's not about women, it's about control, the control of women and americans and freedom for pro-life. >> a historic moment and because of this decision, children will live today, we are excited and know this is just the beginning. >> it's important to note these major cities we showed you video of four new york, l.a., d.c. and chicago, they are homes and states that will not have any issues or changes with their abortion law but that wasn't the case for all across the country where there was chaos. [chanting] [screaming] thousand seen in arizona,

., ronald reagan, frederick douglass or abraham lincoln for the truth is that america's generation after generation we have always gotten better. it doesn't stop now it doesn't stop at all. so sometimes getting punched in the gut is the way you reflect and refocus. we are in the midst of that gut punch right now, trey. we're going to have to refocus our attention to it really matters. and we will do it i am confident in we the american people. >> all right come south carolina just went through a primary season. you had no opposition. it was kind of bittersweet for me in a way. this november you will be on the ballot for the first time and i will not be there with you. although i think you're going to do just fine. not the least bit worried. but it was bittersweet when you think, not just your political future because you have so many different interests. but when you look to the future do you have an idea of what you want to come about? >> i do trey. one of the things i focused on is because of the life of a man a well lived, chick-fil-a operator is my mentor pretty set a mission to posi

kennedy: and frederick douglass who really, really liked abraham lincoln, like he really liked him, he thought he was amazing and thought everything would change which is one of the saddest things about -- >> i'm not sure if that's true but yes. kennedy: it is absolutely true. he fought hard to defend the constitution and he believed people in his former situation would not have to meet the harshness they continued because of andrew johnson. you hate lincoln, right, dave? >> i hate all presidents and i hate this culture of i am offended so something must be removed and history is history so i don't leave and removing statues that i hate presidents more than i hate that and the two worst institutions in the history of america were slavery and number two right after that is conscription and lincoln's entire army was conscripted and the emancipation proclamation didn't even -- that's true but the emancipation proclamation didn't even free slaves in the north, it was like a war tactic so i think lincoln was a tyrant, i think the war was about slavery to the south but really wasn't to the n

i'm at the top of the frederick douglass bridge and want to know why you aren't in the streets. nonviolently shutting down the government day after day after day. so congress protects abortion rights. yes, outside of the supreme court right now. like i said, there's about 100 people who are protesting. i hear abort. the court is one of the main messages. >> that people are chanting here. we're also keeping our eyes on a candlelight vigil that is for tonight. but tomorrow night at 09:00pm, it will happen right at the bottom of the steps here. nation's highest court. stephanie, back to you. >> when history there, thank you so much, joseph, for that live report. and people who oppose abortion celebrated the supreme court's decision about a dozen people gathered outside the planned parenthood offices in walnut creek. one of the people there telling kron 4 she started crying when she got the news and had been praying for the supreme court's decision. but one pastor said this victory is just temporary. >> he's going to put it on the ballot for the citizens of california to vote aborti

frederick douglass who said, what is the fourth of july to the negro? we need to have our own opportunities to celebrate our legacies, history and culture. i think god that my father and people like my daughter's great grandfather, samuel dewitt proctor. it's adam -- such important work to tell our stories, to raise up our ancestors and preserve our legacies through their important work. those are the two dads in my mind today. my dad and my wife's grandfather. >> i've got to ask you this, pierce. do you have any plans at all to ever run for office again? >> yes, i'm keeping the door open. i get that question a lot. you know, there are a lot of important things that i want to do in this life. right now, i'm writing books, working on a podcast, writing for television. i think that's a really important role for me as a black dad, now that my children are young. i'm absolutely open to getting involved in politics again. it was the privilege of my life to serve on city council. i'm definitely open. >> all right, piers freeland, thank you for being with us.

brett baird wrote a despicable brian wrote a terrific book about abraham lincoln and frederick douglass. two opponents off slavery, different styles and different positions. very, very important book he did a good job i really am very keen on the books i brought here. i wasn't sure what the assignment was going to be. the two books i am really keen on one is the book about the gilded age which is charlie morris book wherever i putut th. that is the jazz age one. there it is. the tycoons that links to the jazz age for the jazz age book is about warren harding. but i want to group them all together and i'm going to give in opinion here. left wing historians have destroyed these presidents and by the way they tried to destroy gramps although as you toldan mk grant started to move up the list again. click on the c-span list of presidential rankings ... a grant has been moving up steadily. >> guest: deservedly so. not only did he win the civil war the battlefield, but as i said to you yesterday grant was a guy or tried to enforce reconstruction of regret was the guy who took on the ku klux k

there are people like frederick douglass, erica bethune, all the people of all the different agencies in washington d. c. who were african american and served. with the wilson administration things like submitting photographs of yourself with your application became a requirement to determine and weed out who was african american. separation of white women, for example, and african american men. getting rid of supervisors in the government who were african american. these kind of intrinsic things happened under that administration. so, exploring what are the effects of that? and then lastly, bringing in the people who contributed to society at this time who were african american. though this is the nadir of race relations, this was also a time of great cultural expansion coming from the african american community. the popularization of jazz thanks to world war i soldiers who went to europe to serve. not all came back but they did serve they did their duty before they were acknowledged by president obama and our government. so there is a deep time of pain and suffering, there is signif

we must remember freedom fighters such as harriet tubman and frederick douglass and gabriel prosser. we must remember that it was not merely the enlightenment ideas, some reckoning amongst white abolitionists, that brought the end to this system that had enriched colonial powers, but that abolition was propelled by constant revolt that forced colonial powers to realize, as scholar mary reckford, wrote, it would remain "more expensive and dangerous to maintain the old system than to abolish it." black people were actors in their own freedom. obscuring and marginalizing stories of black resistance serves to justify the hypocrisy of colonial europe and the united states by insinuating that had slavery been so bad, surely, african peoples would have fought harder against it. these are lies of omission that in the absence of truth warp our collective memory. resistance, therefore, must be central to any remembrances of the transatlantic slave trade, and must, therefore, be connected to the ongoing resistance movements in the fight for black liberation across the globe. i stand here before

douglass bridge today. that's where he hung a long green banner and he posted this video on tiktok. said it was the color of abortion rights movement cnbc's shomari stone back with us outside the court shomari. >> shep, the crowd has grown over the last hour when we first did our first live hit for you as you can see, it is growing here and it extends for approximately two blocks you have peaceful demonstrations you have debates from both sides of the aisle on this issue and people are continuing to gather out here. many of them say that they are upset over this overturning of roe v. wade. others say that they were cheering earlier today because they support the supreme court's decision shep >> shomari stone live for us thanks >>> this historic day marked by a ruling from the highest court in the land. the decision to overturn roe v. wade reverse decades of precedent. before we go tonight, people from all walks of life and both sides of the issue share their thoughts on this monumental day in american life

douglass bridge in washington, d. c. this is about two miles away from the supreme court. a lot of emotions across the country tonight what can i du with less asthma? with dupixent, i can du more.. catching my train... making moves... ♪ making a connection... a train connection. that's how you du more with dupixent, which helps prevent asthma attacks. dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems. it's an add-on-treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma that can improve lung function for better breathing in as little as two weeks. and can reduce, or even eliminate, oral steroids. and here's something important. dupixent can cause allergic reactions that can be severe. get help right away if you have rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor about new or worsening joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. are you ready to du more with less asthma?