people like scott perry, they deny it. but you have people under oath saying that members of congress either requested individual pardons or blanket pardons for anybody involved in and around january 6th. >> yeah. although, jamie gangel, i should note that congressman mo brooks released the letter that he sent to the white house, which is something along the lines of, you know, the crazy democratic socialists and liberal republicans are going to try to abuse the justice department and go after us criminally, so you should offer blanket pardons to anybody who signed on to that crazy amicus brief. i called it crazy. mo brooks didn't, or anybody who voted to disenfranchise the voters of pennsylvania and arizona. >> the committee had the receipts on mo brooks, so he had to find some excuse. scott perry came out today and denied it completely, said, but let's remember he would not come in and testify under oath. >> right. >> cassidy hutchinson did. just to emphasize something that dana mentioned, donald trump was relentless in

scott perry's office denying this, calling it a ludicrous lie. mo brooks not denying it at all, but saying the pardons were unnecessary after all, but the worlds from republican adam kinzinger who says the only reason you would think to ask for a pardon is you think you committed a crime. david? >> rachel, thank you. >>> of course, the other major story tonight, the landmark supreme court ruling striking down new york state law on the books for more than a century. it required gun owners to show a proper cause in order to carry a concealed handgun. the court ruling that violating the second amendment's right to keep and bear arms. the three liberal justices dissenting. justice clarence thomas for the majority writing that citizens shouldn't have to explain to the government why they're seeking to xerl size a constitutional right. but the ruling allows states to ban guns in, quote, sensitive places that could include schools, government buildings, courthouses, but he specifically wrote all of manhattan could not be declared a sensitive place. toni

one of them is scott perry. she said they saw pardons from the white house. i had to hear it's twice because i was so taken aback by that. what is the significance of that? that lawmakers were saying i might need a pardon? >> i think it is very significant. she did not lay out the significance. she teased that there will be more of this in the next few weeks. the fact that one of the republicans from pennsylvania who was instrumental in trying to help the former president overturn the election results in pennsylvania, the fact that after january 6 he asked the president for a pardon shows that the reaction and response and what happened, he got very nervous that perhaps he was personally criminally or civilly liable. scott perry put out a statement today saying that was absolutely false. he did not do that. i do not think the committee is very concerned about overreach. they have done that in the past and it is really it th. they said they would not put out out there if they did not have evidence. yamiche: something else i have to ask you about and that is ca

no one of credibility would do the dirty work he wanted to do, so, scott perry pick this guy up out of relative obscurity and hands him over to the white house, and essentially, he asks, will you do this thing if we put you in position of power to do it and he says sure. i just want to know, who will play jeffrey clark in the movie, because this guy, what the committee set out to do today was to make jeffrey clark a household name. i don't think they quite accompanist that. however, they did paint a pretty villainous picture of jeffrey clark, and what an absolute betrayal of his oath to uphold the law, of his country, when he allegedly goes in and says, yeah, i'll do this. i'll do this for you. i just think it is incredible. that they convinced this guy to do it. >> let me get a legal response. today was lawyer day. lots of lawyers, doj memos and policies and that kind of thing. but, it is hard for me to even articulate just how shocking it was to see this happening inside the united states department of justice, where i once had the privilege of working. what we heard about today, is

scott perry who was also involved in trying to get clark appointed as attorney general has refused to testify here. as you will see, representative perry contacted the white house in the weeks after january 6th to seek a presidential pardon. multiple other republican congressmen also sought presidential pardons for their roles in attempting to overturn the 2020 election. >> so that is something we are go to be looking out for in the coming days is who sought the presidential pardons and why did they seek presidential pardons, jim. so a lot more to come and i would say buckle up. >> why did they think they had criminal exposure. melanie zanona, jessica schneider, thank you so much. >>> testimony from trump's own inner circle, including his own attorney general bill barr and his daughter, ivanka trump. >> repeatedly told the president in no uncertain terms that i did not see evidence of fraud, and -- you know that would have affected the outcome of the election. and frankly a year and a half later i haven't seen anything to change my mind on that. >> how did that affect your perspective

one name to keep an eye out for is congressman scott perry. perry sort of fits into two buckets and is a key focus for this hearing. it's a pennsylvania republican who brought jeff clark, then a low profile but senior don't official into the fold of trump world when previously clark hadn't been and the committee revealed in a prior hearing after january 6th perry himself sought to obtain a presidential pardon. it's unclear why he worried he had illegal exposure. any efforts by congress to obtain pardons are always very newsworthy, shall we say. the committee has heard testimony that mark meadows was seen burning papers in his chief of staff office in the white house after having a meeting in the final weeks of the trump administration with congressman scott perry. he's a really important character in all this, somebody who still doesn't have a major national profile but who shows up throughout many different stages of the president's efforts to reverse the election outcome. >> jake, jump in. >> the irony of all this is scott perry and mark mea

. >> i think it's scott perry. scott perry was tip of the spear to trying to have someone in the justice department installed as acting attorney general and essentially advance donald trump's plot to overthrow the election. he has been -- according to liz cheney he actually asked for a pardon. she also said there were other republicans who asked for pardons as well. they haven't said yet who that is. maybe they'll reveal that tomorrow. scott perry, who, again, liz cheney said asked for a pardon, has denied that allegation. so we'll see what kind of evidence the committee has tomorrow. >> so if they're asking for pardons, elie, why are you asking for a pardon if you didn't do anything wrong? is it for all the bad stuff i did or what -- >> and this is an interesting showdown. we have the committee saying he asked for a pardon and perry saying absolutely not. here we have just yes he did, no i didn't. so i want to see tomorrow does the committee have evidence to prove that? and if so they clearly have testimony to tha

i know scott perry personally. when i served as a staffer, i worked with them in fact very regularly. and at best i think that congressman loudermilk is being taken for a ride by the people he gave a tour to. at worst, potentially knows something he should share with the committee. i would urge him to be immensely skeptical about what happened here, evidence of just about anyone this constituent wasn't there for an innocent purpose to go see the train. this constituent was articulating a potentially violent threat against elect officials. that's serious. they should take it seriously. congressman loudermilk shouldn't wait for the committee to come to him and ask questions. she should be afirmtively going and sharing all the information he has with the committee. the fact that they released this video shows that the bipartisan select committee is taking this extremely seriously and that also means the justice department is taking this seriously, so the congressman should as well. >> you know, melissa, if you are giv

what we know thus far is that congressman scott perry has made an instrumental role in facilitating that, and making that happen, and that is why the increase of information we are gathering regarding testimony about perry trying to seek a pardon is so important, because it just flushes out the cast of characters here. >> very quickly, i have to ask you this question. in the sweepstakes for who gets flipped, who would be more valuable to flip? >> clark. he is in direct medication with the president and is facing the most serious jeopardy. he had an experience today which moves people closer to flipping. when you are in your pajamas and the fbi is running for your house, you really start focusing on your future. >> yeah. we talked about this in the break room, but these members of congress do not feel comfortable that the fbi could not do the same to them, they might end up in their pajamas, to. >> thank you very much. we will see you tonight in special coverage and of course on the last four with my other guest, sticking around. we will be back in a minute. a. . ♪ birds flyin' high ♪

you know, scott perry is -- was one of the people who was pushing italy-gate. this farfetched conspiracy theory that the italian defense contractor was conspiring with the cia toute satellites to flip votes from trump to joe biden. he pushed that in multiple emails to department of justice officials. he pushed it to mark meadows asking, you know, why they couldn't just work with the italians to figure this out and ultimately it got elevated to the highest levels of government. during a time when there was a lot of other things as sam stein just noted, including a pandemic that has killed million americans going on. but ultimately as the committee drilled down on yesterday, because of jeffrey rosen, rich donoghue and steven engle, three people who stood up against jeffrey clark and the former president and threatened to cause a mass resignation so jeffrey clark would be leading a graveyard. the former president was not able to go through with a lot of what he was trying to. >> jackie, talk to me about the pardons. i mean, you even saw a staffer being deposed abo

i think clark has taken the fifth 100 times, and scott perry, he asks trump for a pardon. and trump's own lawyer, herschmann told eastman, you need a criminal defense lawyer. and he told clark, what you are proposing is a felony. so, they know very well that when they were up to was no good. the group is probably bigger than that. but i'm delighted that the fbi did this morning raid, which is, jeffrey clark is a window into a larger organization or scheme. >> the committee revealed today six members of the house of representatives, including scott perry as you mentioned, marjorie taylor greene, and others, who requested pardons. i asked congressman adam schiff earlier tonight if that was a complete list or if it's possible, or if there were more people asking for pardons. and he indicated that, of course, it is possible that there are more people in the house of representatives and elsewhere asking for pardons involving january 6th. or other matters. that we don't yet know about. i can't think of another time in our history when members -- a group, of the house of represen

. >> representative scott perry who was also involved in trying to get clark pointed as attorney general has refused to testify here. as you will see, representative perry contacted the white house in the weeks after january 6th to seek a presidential pardon. multiple other republican congressmen also sought presidential pardons for their roles in attempting to overturn the 2020 election. >> just moments ago the congressman that liz cheney named tweeted this. the notion that i ever sought a presidential pardon for myself or other members of congress is a shameless and soulless lie. our reporters are back with us. there he is on the record with the tweet. the challenge, they say they have the documents to prove this. >> if they do, this is what liz cheney was talking about. these members were pressuring mike pence to not certify the votes. if that's what the criminal charges or the basis for that is. so the thing here is it's not just perry. they said there were multiple members. if they have documents from multiple members, it shows they knew intent that what they were going was wrong. t

and then scott perry. scott perry continues to deny this, the pennsylvania congressman. he denies he has ever asked for a pardon, but we saw the video of cassidy hutchinson, the aide to former chief of staff mark meadows under oath saying scott perry asked her directly for a pardon. and then louie gohmert, also another name mentioned of a republican who sought a pardon from the trump white house. he's also denying, he's saying he was seeking pardons for others unassociated with the government. we have heard members from the committee respond to these republican congressmen who have either denied it or they're not confirming it, and they say look, all you need to know is the witnesses we have that said that they sought a pardon, they were under oath. these republicans who are denying it, they were not. >> yeah, and it's not a crime to lie to the american people. it's a crime to lie under oath. pamela brown, thanks. >> just a few weeks ago here on "the lead," barbara lee shared her personal story, her experience having an abortion back in the pre-roe v. wade days. she's ba

>> there was zero to that. >> during that call, did scott perry mention mr. clark and what did he say about him? >> he did. he mentioned mr. clark. he said something to the effect of, i think jeff clark is great and i think he's the kind of guy that can get in there and do something about this stuff. this was coming on the heels of the president having mentioned mr. clark in the afternoon cool earlier that day. >> i would like to yield to the gentle woman from wyoming, vice chair cheney. >> thank you very much, mr. kinzinger. i thank the gentleman for yielding. as we discussed earlier at the center of mr. charge's plan to undo president president trump's election loss was a letter. on december 28th, mr. clark emailed you and mr. rosen a draft letter that he wanted you to sign and send to georgia state officials. you testified -- this could have glaifrave constitutional consequences. can you tell us what you meant by that? >> i had to read the email and attached letter twice to make sure i understood what he was proposing, because it was so extreme to me. i ha

this is representative scott per and representative andy biggs. those are the two from the the committee that sought pardons but the committee sought five pardons all together, kevin mccarthy himself, andy biggs, scott perry, jim jordan who mccarthy wanted on the committee in the first place and mo brooks who showed up in a bulletproof vest. seeking pardons, does it mean that you committed a crime does it mean that you think you did? >> it means you looked at your own actions and you saw what happened saying somebody might have a problem with what i just tried to do because what i just tried to do was overthrow the united states government and i almost got people killed so maybe i need some legal protection now. look, one of the things we saw last night, joy, is that liz cheney is going to dog walk for kevin mccarthy. it's going to be a bad five days for kevin mccarthy was scared and we know he was. a bunch of them were. they were frantically calling and trying to get the very one person that they all knew could stop it. lindsey graham called the

because you know that congressman scott perry is denying it. >> yeah. the seeking of pardons is powerful demonstration of the consciousness of guilt, or at least the consciousness you may be in trouble. that's what's so shocking about this. it's not just one. >> you have evidence that this happened? >> it is multiple members of congress, as the vice chair said at our opening period. and all in due course. the details will surface. >> so, yes, there's evidence? >> everything we're doing is documented by evidence. unlike the big lie, which is based on nonsense, as former attorney general barr said. everything that we're doing is based on facts and this is a bipartisan investigation, which is determined to ferret out all the facts of what happened. >> before i let you go, i want to ask about something that you were carrying in your pocket. a copy of common sense by thomas payne. you named your late son tommy after him. why did you have that with you thursday night? >> well, because, you know, we did name tommy after tom payne. and what we're going to need

i also want to know, if i'm doj, how exactly did scott perry know that jeffrey clark was the person to speak to about these issues? this was like a mob case, for example. who told you what? who leaned on you where? why does jeffrey clark have an audience with the president of the united states? >> why does perry know that clark is susceptible to this idea? >> exactly. again, at doj, remember, when you were a prosecutor in the department of justice, you are vetted to an extent even your credit cards are vetted. >> david, if merrick garland did pursue charges against the former president, would that make the former president more -- would that serve the former president's interests, you think? >> yeah, i think, look -- yeah, i believe so. the president would go out and say, look, i am being persecuted for my beliefs here. if you're not going to convict the president, which you're not going to end up doing, it will make him a thousand times stronger. i don't think the attorney general will bring judges. i've heard mention on this network many times they might indict lots of people around

scott perry, matt gaetz, mo brooks, louie gohmert and marjorie taylor greene. we all remember from the first hearing when liz cheney talked about members of congress asking for pardons. i think all of our ears perked up and we wanted to know, okay, who are they and what do they have on them. they, carrie cordero, had the receipts yesterday. >> they brought an actual white house aide to the president who testified in her deposition which is under oath and they have it on video and showed it in the hearing yesterday that specific members and she named them gaetz, brooks, biggs, gohmert, perry and she said marjorie taylor greene had asked another white house lawyer for a pardon. what i think is remarkable about these was the scope of the pardons that some of the testimony indicated they were asking for prospective, so a pardon based on crimes that haven't even been charged that they didn't know necessarily were being investigated but it reflects what i think several of the hearings have drawn out which is that so many people knew at the time that what they were do

perry and other republicans and we didn't get the full list of republican people seeking pardons but i'm sorry, there is no way you're not asking for pardons without a consciousness of guilt. it didn't work that way. you're only asking for a pardon when you think you have done something wrong, when you think you have some legal exposure, and that doesn't add up that you're asking for pardon that you are somehow innocent. that's the first thing that stood out to me. the second thing that stood out to me was the committee meeting, going after the concept of willful blinding and i think it is important because the committee was showing by having the former attorney general bill barr, by having his own daughter ivanka trump, talk about the fact that the election was not stolen, that the claims that donald trump was putting out there were nonsense and by saying that, that basically is making the case that trump engaged in willful blindness. the doctrine that if you're credibly informed that something is not the case, then you can't then use that as a legal defense to say oh, i didn't know

i also want to know, if i am doj, how did scott perry know that jeffrey clark was the person to speak to about these issues? who told you what? who leaned on you, where? why does jeffrey clark have an audience with the president of the united states? >> why does perry know that clark is susceptible to this idea? >> exactly. doj, remember, when you were a prosecutor in the doj you are vetted to an extent even your credit cards. >> if merrick garland did pursue charges, without serve the former president's interest? >> i think so. i think the president would go out and say look, i am being persecuted for my beliefs here. and it's a charge. if you're not going to convict the president, that will make it 1000 times stronger. i've heard mentioned on this network many times, they may indict people around him, leave him as an unindicted co- conspirator and then bring charges they can make cases against people i think that is probably more powerful. >> except in georgia. >> solicitations. yes. >> to laura's point about reading this guys house, what took them 18 months? >> we don't know if the

a brooks of alabama, matt gaetz, louie gohmert, marjorie taylor greene, scott perry, and andy biggs. this is republican congress member adam kinzinger. >> my colleagues and i also take an oath. some of them failed to uphold theirs and instead chose to spread the big lie. days after the tragic events of january 6, some of these same republican members requested pardons in the waning days of the trump administration. five days after the attack on the capitol, representative mo brooks sent the email on the screen now. as you see, he emailed the white house "pursuant to a request from matt gaetz, requesting a pardon for representative gaetz himself and unnamed others." witnesses told the select committee that the president considered offering pardons to a wide range of individuals connected to the president. let's listen to some of that testimony. >> and was representative gaetz requesting a pardon? >> i believe so. the general tone was we may get prosecuted because we were densive , you know, the president's positions on these things. e pardonhat he was diussing reqsting was as broad as

now, scott perry himself, pushing back on this claim on twitter today. he said, quote, the notion that i ever sought a presidential pardon for myself or other members of congress is an absolute shameless and soulless lie. so, of course, the question now, victor and alison, is does the committee have this evidence as they claim, and when will they present it to the american people? that's something we're going to have to wait and see. >> ryan nobles, thank you very much. the hearing also revealed never-before-seen video of leaders of the proud boys and the oathkeepers, it shows that they met in a garage on january 5th, the night before the capitol riot. the video shows some of the violence that the proud boy members used against police officers. cnn's jessica schneider has the details. what have you learned? >> reporter: alison and victor, ryan just touched on this as well. the committee is really laying the groundwork to put together more of the pieces about how the proud boys and oathkeepers came together in what appears to be a coordinated attack on th

number one the president, former president, had a consciousness of the truth and once scott perry and others saw pardons there was a consciousness of their responsibility. a consciousness of their criminality, that they went and wanted pardons. his closest advisers, including his family members, had told trump that he lost the election. despite that he engaged in a profoundly fraudulent way of diluting the american people. diluting them to the point of an ranging them to come to washington on january the 6th and march on their capital attempting to kill people to kill lawmakers mr. trump was involved in this, from even before the election! if you remember, we were watching calling out, mr. trump before the election, said that they would be fraud. he teed this up! he even had people like attorney general barr suggest before the election, that there would be fraud. obviously there was no fraud he lost deservedly that did not stop him from incensing american people to attack our democracy. >> on the heels of that, i will get to scott perry in just the second committee member elaine glori

the six republicans are scott perry, mo brooks, louie gohmert, andy biggs, and marjorie taylor greene. ( booid thcremde la creep matt gaetz. ( booing ) who was looking for pardons for more than just this coup. >> the pardon he was discussing, requesting, was as broad as you could describe. "from the beginning"-- i remember he said, "from the beginning of time, up until today, for any and all things." >> stephen: that's a little broad. "yeah, ah, i need a pardon from the beginning of time, or my girlfriend's sophomore year, whichever came first." and this was important to matt gaetz. he wouldn't let it go. >> mr. gaetz was personally pushing for a pardon, and he was doing so since early december. i'm not sure why. >> stephen: i am. i'm pretty sure there's a major reason. and it involves a minor. we'll be right back with beto o'rourke. stick around! ( cheers and applause ) ( band playing ) hey, got you a drink. thanks! ♪ ♪ it's right around the corner. do you see that? hiiiii! that's what's so good about it! ok, you can look. i like it. ahhh! (laughter) what are you doing tomorrow?

and they include scott perry, matt gaetz, mo brooks, marjorie taylor greene. more now from manu raju. >> he just told me it is your job to seize machines and you are not doing your job. >> reporter: top justice officials testifying about the lengths donald trump went to use the power of the federal government to pursue this conspiracy that the election was stolen. despite being told repeatedly there was no merit to his claims, trump demanding they declare the election corrupt and leave the rest to him and members of congress. >> were any of the allegations he brought up found credible, did you find any of them credible? >> no. >> reporter: trump's pressure campaign was relentless. >> between december 23rd and january 3rd, the president either called me or met with me virtually every day. >> reporter: all of it came to a head in a tense january 3 oval office meeting when trump threatened to replace acting attorney general jeffrey rosen with jeffrey clark, a doj official who was willing to act on trump's plan. >> i do recall saying to people that somebody should

we should note that pennsylvania congressman scott perry was named. he denies he made such a request. liz cheney and other lawmakers say there's evidence of this. what do you make of that? >> scott perry's district was adjacent to mine when i served in the congress. if it's true that members of congress sought pardons from the president, it speaks to the fact they felt they did something wrong, illegal and criminal. why else would one seek a pardon. they are seeking ppre-emptive pardons. this is quite a big deal. as a former member of congress, i really didn't ever try to call that justice department to influence anything. i just -- we're very cautious about any interactions let alone to do something of this magnitude. it's clear some of these republicans did seek pardons have a lot of explaining to do. >> we'll look forward to seeing more about this. i reported back then, around january 6th, me and caitlin collins that several republicans approached the white house asking for pardons. we had the reporting. this is what the committee is saying and we'

we know one of those lawmakers was scott perry who was involved in the plot to install trump loyalists at the department of justice, and he did not comply with the subpoena to cooperate with the select committee, but we don't know who those other republicans are and we don't know why they wanted a subpoena or why they were worried about potential criminal exposure. congressman pete aguilar, a member of the select committee was pressed about this earlier today. take a listen. >> it's very clear that some of my republican colleagues felt as well as members of the president's orbit and his former advisers and lawyers close to him in the campaign felt the pressure of what happened on january 6th and they sought pardons and they had conversations about pardons after january 6th. >> so that is something we are going to be looking out for in the weeks ahead, and it can be really problem attic for a house republican conference who has tried to ignore or deflect from this investigation and more broadly, the select committee is showing how trump carried out a sophisticated seven-part plan to try

she witnessed meadows burning documents after a meeting with republican congressman scott perry. and she reportedly confirmed that trump told meadows he agreed with rioters who were chanting "hang mike pence." what we don't know is what more hutchison might say today or why the committee is rushing to put her out publicly other than perhaps the security concerns. we also don't know if this has anything to do with a series of grand jury subpoenas delivered last wednesday to multiple people involved in a scheme to appoint alternate electors. that was the same day that officials searched the home of jeffrey clark and seized john eastman's cell phone, all leading to the provocative question -- does she have a smoking gun? as watergate star witness john dean tweeted, better be a big deal. lots to cover. i want to bring in my guests now. okay. let me start with you, nicholas. what are the chances that she has a smoking gun? have you learned anything more in the last few hours about what might be different about today? >> well, the committee has kept us guessing about why they called th

. >> people like scott perry are denying. you just don't believe them? >> we'll see the evidence the committee lays out will be, but the committee has indicated evidence several members of congress did seek a pardon. you have representative perry refusing to comply with the bipartisan investigation with the events of january 6th. i believe the committee would never make an allegation without substantial evidence to present to the american public. >> you heard my reporting about a framework for a bipartisan senate deal on gun safety. that deal is not expected to include so-called assault weapons ban or raising the age to buy a firearm. would you vote for that compromise? >> well, you know, i think when it comes to guns, we have to look at all of the options we have at the table, recognizing that the senate simply right now isn't capable of, i believe, passing the comprehensive legislation in all forms that's needed. we have to look at the text. as you mentioned, legislative text has not been put together. i'm disappointed to hear a focus on increased crim

representative scott perry who is also involved in trying to get clark appointed as attorney general has refused to testify here. as you will see, representative perry contacted the white house in the weeks after january 6 to seek a presidential pardon. multiple other republican congressman also sought presidential pardons for their roles in attempting to overturn the 2020 election. in our 4th hearing, we will focus on president trump's efforts to pressure vice president mike pence to refuse to count electoral votes on january 6th. vice president pence has spoken publicly about this. >> president trump is wrong. i had no right to overturn thl election. the presidency belongs to the american people and the american people along. and frankly, there's no idea more on america. and the notion that any one person could choose the american president. >> but president trump demanded that mike pence to do wasn't just wrong. it was illegal and it was unconstitutional. you'll hear this in great detail from the vice president's former general counsel. witnesses in these hearings will explain how

congressman scott perry said he stands by his statement that he never sought a pardon. he said, tonight, quote, this never happen. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene said the committee is, quote, spreading gossip that lies. after the hearing, congressman mo brooks released a copy of the email that was shown by investigators, at least in part. the copy shows that he, in fact, did request pardons for himself in a large number of congressional republicans. he did not deny that he sought a pardon. you can't, it's right there in black and white. he just wanted you to see more of the mail in which he asked for one. thank you. congressman brooks tells msnbc that he released this email and concern out of part the -- concern that democrats -- we have eased educational system by prosecuting and jailing republicans who acted pursuant to there constitutional or statutory duties. and so all republicans needed pardons. and matt gaetz's was supposed to be from the beginning of time up until today for any and all things. and he started asking for that early december. that seems norma

he basically said, hey, scott perry and everybody else, you're all welcome to stop by if you're worried about the facts as they're being presented. that's the test for perry, does he actually go under oath? he now has an opportunity to do so, and while i won't hold my breath necessarily, clearly the chairman was telegraphing that that's an option that was available to him. additionally, perry is interesting for all of the reasons that you just laid out, but what we also reported is that cassidy hutchinson testified that she saw mark meadows burn papers in his white house office after having a meeting there with scott perry. that's the kind of thing that just raises all sorts of huge questions regarding the role that this man and this member of congress played in the final weeks of the trump presidency as well as the nature of his that refused to answer questions in the select committee. he's search an important figure and i expect we'll be hearing more about him in the coming weeks as these hearings progress. >> frank, i worked in a white house that gets justifiably criticized for all s

the committee says scott perry and other republican members of congress asked for presidential pardons in the weeks after january 6th. those spokesman for perry will tell you quote, this is a ludicrous as -- joining me now is democratic congressman stacey of the u.s. virgin islands who was a manager for the second impeachment of donald trump which was triggered by the insurrection. welcome representative. after living through january 6th and knowing the details of that day as a former impeachment manager, what was it like for you to experience that hearing on thursday? >> first, thank you so much for having me on and it is good to see michael. i think what was so amazing to me about the hearings was the depth of information that they were able to give. it really gave flesh to the skeleton and the bones of which, the second impeachment of donald trump. we were able to show and outline that not only was this a dereliction of duty but we allege that this was an attempted coup of our government. an attempt by a fascist president to take control of our government. this committee has done th

. >> the committee also claims that multiple republican lawmakers, including representative scott perry, were advocating for pardons in the final weeks of the administration. the committee also heard live testimony from documentar jan nick questhead and they were watching on as one of their own testified about the extensive injuries she sustained as one of the first officers on the scene. >> what i saw was just a war scene. i saw friends with blood all over their faces. i was slipping in people's blood. >> pamela brown, thank you for that. >> joining me right out in is one of the members of the january 6th committee, congresswoman stephanie murphy. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me, kate. >> if last night was the preview and summation of what was going to be presented. was anything left out of that preview that people should know about? >> the details that we will be able to fill in with subsequent hearings will be as compelling, i believe, as last night's hearing was. you have to understand that we interviewed over 1,000 people. we had tens of thousands of documents.

. >> one revelation last night was the claim that scott perry, your colleague, congressman scott perry, sought a pardon from the white house and that other members of congress did the same. again, can you explain? give us more information about that claim. >> well, the evidence that we will talk about includes people in and around the president's orbit, advisers, as well as members of congress who sought presidential pardons in the last days of the trump administration. so we have gathered that information and we will share it as it is relevant to the information and to the january 6th committee work that we have. but clearly, individuals who were seeking pardons specifically after january 6th really begs the question what level of behavior did they engage in if they felt it was necessary to seek and receive a pardon. >> just to be clear, members of congress seeking pardons for connections to january 6th? >> members of congress seeking pardons after january 6th. i will say that. >> well, look, seeking pardons for what, though? seeking pardons for something that happened within the four

perry who is also involved in trying to get clark appointed as attorney general has refused to testify. here. as you will see, representative parry contacted the white house in the weeks after january 6th to seek a presidential pardon multiple other republican congressman also sought presidential pardons for their roles and attempting to overturn the 2020 election. in our 4th hearing, we will focus on president trump's efforts to pressure vice president my pants to refuse to count electoral votes. on january 6th, vice president pans has spoken publicly about this. president trump was wrong. i had no right to overturn the election. the presidency belongs to the american people and the american people alone. and frankly, there is no idea more on america than the notion that a one person could choose the american president. what president trump demanded that my pants do wasn't is wrong. it was illegal and it was unconstitutional. you will hear this in great detail from the vice president, former general counsel. witnesses in these hearings will explain how the former vice president and hi

. >> scott perry and others sought pardons. the only name check was scott perry. the other members of congress, are we looking at one other or multiple others? >> we'll be providing that information through the course of our presentations and our hearings. >> the allegations there's hard evidence they requested these pardons. >> we do. >> how many can you say? more than two members of congress? >> i'm going to wait and we'll provide that as part of our information that we will be providing in the upcoming hearings. >> last question and i'm curious of this. i think you guys, everybody in the committee has an idea of what happened. who plays the role of devil's advocate on that committee hearing? >> as far as -- >> during -- >> i think we take turns. everyone at different points. people have different perspectives and, you know, the fact that it's bipartisan, it ping-pongs back and forth. different members come in to say, what about this and then other people say, i'm not sure that's the direction to go. it's so collaborative. it's different than any other committee

one of those particular members of congress was identified was representative scott perry. perry taking to twitter today to push back on that claim. he says the claim that he asked for a pardon or any other member of congress is actually an absolute shameless and soulless lie. the committee said they have evidence to the contrary. we'll have to see if that evidence is revealed over the next couple hearings. wol wolf? >> good point. ryan nobles, thanks. >>> let's discuss what is going on with a former d.c. metropolitan police officer who defended the u.s. capitol on january 6th, michael fanone. he's now a cnn law enforcement analyst and also with us, jamie gangel and our senior law enforcement analyst andrew mccabe, the former fbi deputy director. jamie, you say the committee under promised and over delivered so how do they build on the case they laid out last night in these upcoming hearings resuming monday morning? >> i say they over delivered because i think a lot of people were skeptical that a year and a half later after everything we had seen that they would bring some

perry who played a central role pushing for clark to be elevated in the justice department. attorney eric hirstman saying gates, he believes, was also seeking a parten. >> the pardon he was requesting was as broad as you can describe, frunl the beginning of time up until today. mentioned nixon and i said nixoners pardon was never nearly that broad. >> the only reason i know to ask for a barden is because you thinks you kmitded a crime. >> reporter: in tigaddition to perry and gates, other members sought a pardon, mel brooks, andy biggs, marjorie taylor greene. now greene was a second-hand witness, her her say this. she has denied asking for a parted, others will to get it, mo brooks, but anybody overturning the election, he was concerned democrats would niez the justice farmt against political enemies. >> thank you very much, i want to go to the january 6th committee which congressman, i appreciate you taking the time back in the show. it was rifting to watch this today. we heard ton hew say today and i quote him, there were a lot of people whispering in his ear, feeding him

but we have asked these other representatives, scott perry, one of them. mo brooks, louie gohmert, matt gaetz, marjorie taylor greene, and andy biggs are the ones that the committee testimony today said asked for pardons for themselves in relation to the 2020 election, and what they had said, again, very serious accusations, especially from one -- from members of congress against the other. so we're waiting to hear for their -- from their response. judy: yes, ande heard white house -- former white house aides and advisers making some of those statements. and, finally, lisa, this was the last hearing that we know has been scheduled. but we are now told there are going to be more hearings in the future. what do we know about that? and looking back on what we have learned so far, how do you put it together? lisa: we expect more hearings in july. we do not yet know how many. we don't know when. and one source told me that they're still deciding that, that they have a mountain of evidence to go through. and, in fact, they are getting more evidence now. one exam

representative scott perry who was also involved in trying to get clark appointed as attorney general has refused to testify here. as you will see, representative perry contacted the white house in the weeks after january 6th to seek a presidential pardon. multiple other republican congressman also saw presidential pardons for their roles in attempting to overturn the 2020 election. in our country, we do not swear a north to an individual, or a political party. we take our oath to defend the united states constitution. and that oath must mean something. tonight, i say this to my republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible. there will come a day where donald trump is gone. but your dishonor will remain. >> all right. our all-star panel, simone sanders, glenn kirschner, cynthia, all with us after the break. don't go anywhere. panera chefs have crafted a masterpiece... succulent, seared chicken... a secret aioli... clean ingredients... in a buttery brioche roll. made fresh, to leave you... speechless. panera's new chef's chicken sandwiches. $0 delivery fee for a limited time

evidence also shows there was an effort by pennsylvania republican congressman scott perry to get a new attorney general in position before january 6 to january. 6th hearings will resume after summer recess. >> reporting in washington. >> reporting in washington. i'm basil, john. it's beautiful out here. it sure is. and i earn 5% cash back on travel purchased through chase with chase freedom unlimited. that means that i earn 5% on our rental car, i earn 5% on our cabin. i mean, c'mon! hello cashback! hello, kevin hart! i'm scared. in a good way. i'm lying. let's get inside. earn big time with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. (music throughout) >> and that wraps up kron. 4 news at 5 she ate you being with us this hour. but stick around. a lot of news to get to tonight on kron. 4 news at 6. pam and ken are here with a look ahead of that. all right. thank you, grant. thank you. of course, we're going to continue to follow the fires that are burning in the bay area tonight. and there are several of them. we have updates on th

scott perry might be saying, no, i'm fine. but he doesn't know who they have interviewed, he doesn't know what's the interviewees have said, he doesn't know what they have collected. so, i think there are quite a few house republicans right now who are sitting around wondering, did they have that text i sent to mark meadows? when did i send that? they're going through their own phones right now, wondering what they said and what this committee has. >> and it's not just house republicans. i, mean i was talking to a pretty prominent trump ally last week who, i asked in advance of thursday's hearing, what is the planned response to this? how do you plan to go on the offensive? there response was, we don't know how to respond because we don't know what to expect. we don't know what they have. at the end of the day, they have testimony under oath and we don't. so, they can't say that's a correct, that's factually inaccurate, that's wrong, because it's backing up against sworn testimony. >> and it's videotaped. >> and it's videotape