here with us now, the author of the piece, joan biskupic. you covered roberts for years. my question here is was he trying to preserve roe for the long-term or the short-term, go more slowly? >> good question, jim. good to see you and poppy. the chief has been against abortion rights in the past, but this time it was going way too fast for him. first of all, the justices didn't even take this case initially to decide roe v. wade. it was just going to be consideration of the mississippi law that banned abortion after 15 weeks. so this was a huge transformation of the case. the chief anticipated what a jolt to use his word it would be for the country, so he wanted to stop what the majority was headed toward doing. but toward your bottom line question, look, he is somebody who has opposed abortion rights in the past, maybe if there were full consideration of roe he would be a rote tovote to overt but it was too fast, too much for him to handle in the end too. >> joan, so people understand, you are the author of really the definitive book on john roberts, the chief, and you k

cnn legal analyst and supreme court biographer joan biskupic broke this story. joan, this is fascinating. how did chief justice roberts lobby his fellow conservative justices. >> well, you know, back in december after the oral arguments were held, a vote was taken, and it was essentially 5-1-3. 5 hard right conservatives wanting to uphold the mississippi ban on abortions at 15 weeks and to go even further and say roe v. wade should be history. rolling back nearly a half century of abortion rights. chief justice john roberts agreed that mississippi's ban should be upheld but said we did not take this case to reconsider roe so extensively. we should not do it. we should exercise judicial restraint. we should adhere to precedent, and then of course the three liberals, the three remaining liberals on this court who not only wanted to strike down the mississippi ban but they did not want to touch roe v. wade or the 1992 case that preserved it. so the chief justice for weeks, months, tries to pick off one or two of the conservatives. his best prospect, brett kavanaugh

it's so interesting, joan biskupic. great reporting. >>> ahead for us, another sign the justice department's own investigation into the january 6th capitol attack is revving up. up next, why the grand jury wanted to hear from this man who was chief of staff to former vice president pence. plus, as monkeypox infections continue rising, the biden white house prepares to take more action. will it be enough? >>> and later, dramatic water rescues under way in st. louis. when will all this rain let up? [whistling] when you have technogy that's easier to control... that can scale across all your clouds. we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling] your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire only two things are forever: love and liberty mutual customizing your car insuranc

multiple sources telling cnn's 's joan biskupic that chief justice roberts fought hard to preserve the right to abortion. but a potential deal with one of the conservative justices ultimately collapsed. the real question is why. joan is here with the inside story. joan, look, the chief justice had been successful in the past trying to cajole and persuade behind the scenes. but with that lead draft opinion, things seem to have changed. is that the moment -- >> bottom line, laura, i wonder if he ever was going to be successful. but once it was leaked, then it really eliminated the chance almost to about zero. you are exactly right, the chief has been successful in the past. the chief himself has switches vote at the 11th hour, as we know most memorably in the 2012 obamacare case. he has been someone who knows that votes switch sometimes. they don't always stay the way, as this one did, in december they voted five conservative saying we totally want to reverse roe. chief justice john roberts in the middle, said he wanted to uphold that mississippi ban on abortions at 16 weeks. and then of

cnn's joan biskupic is joining me now. a lot of sarcasm there, joan. >> it was so classic samuel alito, brianna. he exudes a sense of aggrievement all the time, even as he is winning. he had the majority in the decision that he said, whose name cannot be said. and that's the dobbs ruling, where the justices rolled back a half century of reproductive rights, women's privacy rights in america. and he also has been in the majority, plowing ahead on all sorts of religious conservative, but yet he cannot help but engage in sarcasm. that's his way. there have been times when the court didn't go as fast or as far as just alito wanted it to go. and he exuded this sense of persecution in various dissented or concurrences. but annow the breaks runoff ande is winning. he held on to his majority, a narrow five-justice majority to reverse roe v. wade from 1973. and then also this session, the conservative majority allowed more prayer in public places, such as prayer on a football field. and also, more government funding of religion. so