but lincoln is. and in romaine's case, he is so poorly treated by white society in washington that, part way through his time, he just decides, i'm out of here and he moves to new york city. but it wasn't because of how lincoln treated him, it was because of how washington, d. c. was a southern city in 1863. and it was that treatment that caused him to go to new york. but it's lincoln that breaks down the barrier, in terms of diplomacy and welcoming a diplomat from haiti, which would've been unfathomable before his presidency. >> in official interactions, he seems to have charmed the town. maybe not charmed the town, charmed with the people that came to state dinners and so on and so forth. he is a polyglot, a man of charming manners. >> i found an incredible letter by a woman from iowa. i shouldn't say this out loud because someone will scoop me on it, but her letters are so wonderful and i'm thinking of trying to turn them into a book, to gather them all together. i think there is enough there. exc

and so lincoln agrees and lincoln decides to wait until there's a union victory the problem is lincoln's generals can't get their act together. and so there's a major loss at manassas and i in august and then there's not a victory until september of september 17th at antietam. and so while this is going on while lincoln is waiting for this victory to come he does several things to try to prepare the white racist north the white racist electorate in the north for what is coming. he knows he's going to issue an emancipation proclamation. he knows he's got to wait, but he might as well begin to prepare and shape public sentiment on this issue. so he does several things one of which is he writes a very famous letter to horace freely where he says my paramount object in this struggle is to save the union and it's not to either save her to destroy slavery. he's trying to get people on board if if you are willing to fight for the union think about how ending slavery might help do that and then he also calls in this black delegation and he brings us stenographer into the room to write down every

year dedication of the lincoln mario we are joined by author and abraham harold holzer lincoln to -- joined by author and lincoln expert harold holzer to discuss. what sets it apart? guest: one is just the beauty, the building and the magnificence of the marble statue, the largest marble monument portrait in the united states, then and now. what further has set it apart is the use of this space i am sitting on all the way to the steps as a platform for the discussion of grievances, for the aspirations for a more perfect union, for what reagan called unfinished -- what lincoln called unfinished work. it has evolved into the setting for demonstrations, gatherings, meetings, concerts that all point to completing that unfinished business of his. host: describe where you are and for those who haven't been there, with the should know. guest: i am sitting about 50, 40 feet from the reflecting pool on the far end of the monument. and of course the memorial is behind me up 87 steps, i think i have that right. finished in 19 and they waited for it to settle on the soft ground before it settled

lincoln's church. as well as the church of many of his cabinet members and memory members of congress it was reverend wallace radcliffe of the new york avenue presbyterian church who offered the invocation at the dedication ceremony here at the lincoln memorial 100 years ago. so to continue in that tradition, please welcome the reverend doctor sarah johnson. friends, let us pray. got our help in ages past. our hope for years to come we thank you for the gift of this beautiful day and for the opportunity and privilege to gather to mark a memorable occasion. moment and monument in our country's history. as we sit in the shadow of this great monument, we remember and give thanks for the life and legacy of president abraham lincoln. and his unwavering commitment that a government of the people by the people and for the people shall not perish from the earth. we humbly ask that the marking and the memory of this day and of days before. will not lull us into a dream like state. an ill-fed longing for the way

the hundred year dedication of the lincoln mario we are joined by author and abraham harold holzer lincoln to >> we're going from the west end of the national mall by author and abraham lincoln expert harold holzer, to discuss one of the nation's most recognizable landmarks. mr. holzer, good morning to you. in your mind, what is it about the lincoln memorial that sets it apart from all the other memorials here in washington d. c.? >> good morning to you, john. thank you for having me. what sets it apart, i think, are two things. one is just the beauty of the building and the magnificence of the marble statue by daniel chester french, the largest marble monument portrait in the united states. then and now. what further has set it apart in the last four score years, not coincidentally, is the use of the space that i'm sitting, on all the way to the steps as a platform for the discussion of grievances, for the aspirations for a more perfect union, for what lincoln called his unfinished work. so, this place, rather than just a tribute to lincoln, has evolved into the setting for demonstrations

lincoln and roosevelt. in c-span's most recent historian poll, these two american originals were at the top three, as they always are. they have kept their reputation, and as you see on the screen, both faced significant crises at the beginning of their presidencies, their respective presidencies. the image you see here is lincoln in the first year of his presidency, 1861. and roosevelt within the first year or two, i'm not sure of the date on this one, but early in his presidency. so here is how we are going to handle our chat today. i am going to pose a question a theme or an area to discuss. i will start with a lincoln topic, usually, and i will turn it over to craig to answer it. and then offer a roosevelt's comment, and throw it back to me for a roosevelt rejoinder. this will last about one and a half, and then we will just be off to the races. let's start with training and preparation. for the presidency. this isn't eastman johnson painting of lincoln reading and learning by the fire light in one of h

this was lincoln's theme lincoln was always against slavery. he had a visceral and moral objection to slavery but slavery was not the main issue in the first couple of decades of rear the 1830s and 1840s. all the issues were economic and they really flowed from lincoln's own background. he wrote a campaign biography his candidates for president due today. he talked about how hard it was living in frontier, kentucky and indiana and illinois where there were no roads or just the worst muddy roads, and there was no credit and businesses failed including one that that he worked for when it was cheaper to ship goods from england to the east coast and his issues were all economic issues a tariff to help american industry a national bank to provide credit so that ordinary people would be able to do business as lincoln had and not fail perhaps and really most importantly roads transportation was just this is the buildback better of their day and if you lived in the on the frontier back then to be able to get goods to market really spell the difference

the lincoln realm. he's also the author of monument man, the life and art of daniel chester french, who, as you'll find out in a few minutes, had something to do with the statue behind me. his jewel expertise and lincoln and art makes him the perfect person to trace the history, the art and the architecture of the lincoln memorial, including the seeded statue that us continue to inspire us even 100 years later. please welcome to the podium herald holder. >> good morning and thank you david for the introduction and for all you have done to create this event. i cannot help thinking, as i start, those of us on the platform have been looking across the reflecting pool and the square dome building in the distance, the old library of congress, is the site where abraham lincoln lived in a boarding house during his first term in congress, during which he introduced a resolution to ban slavery in the district of columbia. it took him another 13 or 14 years to sign that legislation as president. but it's just an

and leadership in lincoln. i'm pleased to report that my intuition is that we will have many more of these wonderful gatherings. and so we have to think historically and in thinking back i wanted to say jonathan white gave us a wonderful bulletin, so look at what the topics were and in doing it. i see that the chief borrowed my punching lincoln for his collection, and maybe it's down in starkville because i gave my first talk here in 2003 lincoln our mortal president, but more seriously it was the scholars who were so supportive of the idea of bringing lincoln and his world alive. they got me started on my lincoln journey and we discussed in the prelude that there can be new meanings to exploring these topics seeing the spielberg film in 2021 and reexamining where we are in the lincoln world in 2021 is so important and i have the great honor of introducing a dynamic duo of lincoln scholarship. craig simons is a former professor of u-verse naval college a former professor and chair of history at the us naval aca

did his study lincoln? we know in any of his writings if there's any references to other wartime presidents? >> roosevelt was like any president that we researched or spoken to, they were all lincoln aficionados. they actively determined to become the first democrat to seize abraham lincoln for the democratic party. he assiduously works that connection while still serving as governor of new york. and particularly emphasized that, as america went to war, in 1941, he wanted references to lincoln's reluctance to start a hot war with southern states, with slaveholding states. his reelected entrance into the war as he was still looking for a way for the united states to stop the spread of fascism. he even hired the robert emmet sherwood, who had just won a pulitzer prize for writing the play, a blinken in illinois. which was made in 1939, it was made into a hollywood movie. and sherwood begins putting references to the reluctant leadership of roosevelt. by the way -- of lincoln, sorry. very much identified with

i think that lincoln would have brought grant east much sooner because you know in in the east lincoln has one fail general after another the western theater, which is very much dominated by ulysses and grant this one winning one battle after another so the question is why didn't lincoln not bring him earlier and there were these this constant rumor mill that was going on in washington. yeah, and for the cadets one of the great episodes, i think maybe the greatest episode in the west is of course the battle of vicksburg. which was so risky. that his most trusted lieutenant general sherman insists that an official letter but in the file saying that he sherman believes it's too risky now. this is that the two who were like this remember what supposedly sherman said? yes. i stood by grant while he was drunk. he stood by me while i was crazy. i was crazy sherman did have some issues as well and grant was the stabilizing force but a fascinating episode i want to stay with you ron turn now you again you've already mentioned i think that you assessed that grant was a considerably better presi

you've seen the lincoln movie, you know the president lincoln was sitting often in that telegraph office, waiting to hear what was taking place. but the confederates had suffered the telegraph lines so president lincoln and others in washington did not know what was taking place. at the end of the second day, a general union, general rode into the camp and said, i know what lee is going to do. he is going to do this and that, he's going to divide us, and he is going to -- and grant, who was often called grant the silent, grant the sphinx, was sitting there and rose slowly, you raise himself up and he said, i am heartily tired of hearing what's general lee it's going to do. it almost seems like some of you think he is going to turn a double symbol somersault and land on both sides of our ranks. i want us to decide what we are going to do. well, shortly after, that a veteran goose person said i will give $1,000 for anyone who is willing to get through the confederate lines and give the word to president lincoln. and young henry wing, four years of age, said i will make that effort. but bef

ulysses s grant who assumes the mantle of abraham lincoln. he really assumes his legacy. the two great acts of the drama the civil war reconstruction. and he is the one great figure who can exit to those periods. almost everything that happens between 1861 in 1877, ulysses grant is right at the center of it. and i think we now can see clearly that ulysses s. grant was the single most consequential president for the african american community between abraham lincoln and lyndon johnson. frankly, i don't have some of these things before grant were really instrumental behind the passage of the 15th amendment, which was the single greatest event in the country's history since its founding. he presided over the civil rights act of 1875 which provided for the ending of discrimination in transportation, public accommodations, schools, and juries. the supreme court knocked it down in 1883, and we did not get back to that until the civil rights act of 1965. most importantly, and hope we have time to get into this, grant took the newly formed department

todd lincoln and mrs. grant says they have got to go see their children in new jersey, which they did and president lincoln was assassinated that night. grant is bereft with guilt and he thinks if i had been there married would have been able to save president lincoln. he was also a target, grant was of john wilkes-booth. >> after he was assassinated grant stands at the time of the most popular figure. >> by far. johnson despise that. he despised the grant had that power and grew to really hate him. johnson did to the point where he was just trying to figure out how to get them out of the way want to send them to mexico and do all these things in grant stood up to him and said no. he said if it's a military worker i will go but i'm not going if this is just you sending me. >> grant us known as the northern union general but you write in your book that because the approach that he took to southern soldiers to the confederates i don't want to see the people in the south admired him as much as those in the no

study fdr called it the lincoln study and then the lincoln bedroom after harry truman. but there was this interest about what to do with this room to sort of restore some of the historical elements that you know, you're calling it the lincoln bedroom, so why not go back to the true lincoln era when lincoln actually used the space and so i wanted to ask our panelists to sort of talk us through this project what all went into it and and how it came about and how it was how it was executed. so i'll leave the floor open to whoever would like to start these two. well during lincoln's time that room was not the bedroom. it was his office the lincoln area furnishings were not placed in there in the lincoln bedroom created until 1945 under president truman. so up until the early 2000s the room as a matt mentioned. i hadn't really changed much since the truman renovation. in fact the carpeting that you were seeing in some of those early photos. was actually installed in that room in 1952. so as you can imagine by the early 2000s, there was dry rot, and it was time to replace it.

lincoln. lincoln in jackson. >> it's all complete remanufactured, it's all made-for-tv. they want to make liz cheney into some sort of celebrity. it sort of seemed like she was making her announcement that she was running for president sometime in the near future and then just before that, charlie brought it up as well but i'm a veteran, i'm a gold star husband. i think it's despicable for the cheney's to attempt to wrap their greed and hubris in the valor of our fallen men and women. the death of the bush cheney dynasty really just shows that the people that they've sent to go and fight in these wars they benefited from, that we are now taking control of our country. if it's a civil war they want, we are going to fight a political civil war, we are going to fight in the republican party and the deplorables are taking over our government and we don't care what the cheneys and bushes have to say about it. >> laura: it's over for them. they don't know it yet. charlie -- we also should note that i don't think she said she actually congratulated harriet hageman. did she? she

you've seen the lincoln movie. you know that president lincoln was sitting off and in telegraph office waiting to hear. was taking place but the confederates had severed the telegraph lines. so president lincoln and others in washington not know know what was taking place. at the end of the second day a general union general rode into the camp and said i know what lee is going to do. he's going to do this and that and he's going to divide us and he's going to and grant who is often called grant the silent. grant the sphinx sitting there he rose slowly. he raised himself up and he said i am heartily tired of hearing what general lee is going to do. it almost seems like some of you think he's going to turn a double somersault and land on both sides of our ranks. i want us to decide what we are going to do. well shortly after that a veteran news person said i will give a thousand dollars. for anyone who's willing to get through the confederate. and give the word to present lincoln and young henry wing 24 years of age

but lincoln is assassinated and johnson is erasing lincoln's vision day by day. and grant can see that happening before him. and he eventually was drafted to run for president, winds in alliance live. and once he was done, he pushes through the 14th and 15th amendment to the constitution. he fights the kkk with federal troops. he tries to keep the country together and win the peace after the war. and that really thrilled me to be able to dig in and be able to tell that story. and the climax is, as he's leaving -- >> i get the sense, -- you feel like grant was one of the most underappreciated presidents. so his ranking in those historian rankings has gone up 13 spots in recent years. >> that's before my book. so eisenhower went up five spots. we have looked back at why the historians choose to look at it again. i think in this day and age, when we are in such a partisan divide. and everything we've talked about with race, looking back at all that he did to hold the country together at a really pivotal time, gives him another look. >> and do you think he, to this d

you're calling at the lincoln bedroom, why not go back to the true lincoln era when lincoln actually used the space. so, i wanted to ask our panelists to talk us through this project. but all went into it and how it came about and how it was executed. i move the floor open to whoever would like to start. >> these two. >> during lincoln's time, that room was not the bedroom, it was his office. the lincoln era furnishings were not placed in their, in the lincoln bedroom, created in 1945 under president truman. so, up until the early 2000s, the room, as matt mentioned, hadn't really changed much since the truman renovation. in fact, the carpeting you're seeing at some of those early photos was actually installed in that room in 1952. so, as you can imagine, by the early 2000s there was dry rot. it was time to replace it. it was first lady laura bush that decided to take this project on. it would have been very easy for her to have brought a decorator in and created a nice, victorian looking setting for the lincoln furniture. but she decided that the rooms should be restored along histor

todd lincoln and mrs. grant says they have got to go see their children in new jersey, which they did and president lincoln was assassinated that night. grant is bereft with guilt and he thinks if i had been there married would have been able to save president lincoln. he was also a target, grant was of john wilkes-booth. >> after he was assassinated grant stands at the time of the most popular figure. >> by far. johnson despise that. he despised the grant had that power and grew to really hate him. johnson did to the point where he was just trying to figure out how to get them out of the way want to send them to mexico and do all these things in grant stood up to him and said no. he said if it's a military worker i will go but i'm not going if this is just you sending me. >> grant us known as the northern union general but you write in your book that because the approach that he took to southern soldiers to the confederates i don't want to see the people in the south admired him as much as those in the no

lincoln's problems at the illinois central railroad during that period of time? >> i found it in a book called lincoln and the railroads 227 copies were ever printed. was by her have no idea it existed before he did research for this book. you can buy this book from other libraries. anyway i finally got a copy in the pages could not be cut apart. nobody had even read the book took the book home and copied every page in it. but my favorite story writing for a newspaper in new york city talks about a conversation he had with abraham lincoln on a boxcar. at 9:00 o'clock on a hot sultry evening that is where the train stops or someone is to be picked up or dropped off it's not a regular stop. they're getting to a station the train intended to take after waiting a half an hour for the train to come in at thunderstorm at the station. it was then in their when he was clerking the highest of the political ambition was to be a member of the state legislature. this of course he said with a laugh but my friends got me into this business being a railroad lawyer. i do not con

lincoln ultimately prevailed. he saved our union and he defined our obligation as americans for all of history . speaking at gettysburg of the great task remaining before us , lincoln said that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died inn vain, on that this nation under god shall have a new birth ofe freedom and that government of the people, by the people and for the people shall notm perish from this earth. as we meet here tonight, thatd remains our greatest and mostmo important task. most of world history is a s story of violent conflict, of servitude and suffering. most people in most places have not lived in freedom are americans. freedomom is a providential departureiden from history. we are the exception we have been given a gift of freedom by god and our founding fathersa . it hast been said that the long arc of history bends toward justice and freedom. okay, welll liz cheney just>>iz compared c herself to abraham lincoln. so that kind of that kind of takes full circle.ou we'll go back to

this was a delicate line for lincoln. he came to realize that, along with the agitation of various abolitionists, generals, philanthropists, civilians, he was constantly getting advice from everybody. this is back in a time when presidents like lincoln still meet with people on a week to week basis and hear from the public. it's a very different context that we're used to now. so he had to be dragged along to that stance. for him, i think, the process of enabling it as a war measure under the parents that he had as commander-in-chief was the way that he could square this strategy, essentially. a military tactic that he recognized had value. i think it's best expressed, perhaps, by somebody like henry alec, to grant, in march 1863 by saying that every slave removed from the south is a white man taken from the battlefield for the confederacy. that is a consideration with the prisoner exchanges. many things. he had to be dragged along. it took a lot of agitation, by radicals, by abolitionists, and it was really when the mean

all right, will move on to president abraham lincoln. which is someone we probably all know a little bit about as far as his presidential travel. this image you are looking at right now highlights the stops he made on his journey from illinois after he was elected president to washington d.c.. you can see, it's a little bit fuzzy, i apologize for that, that he made 93 individual stops on his real journey. remember, rail journeys then were not like they were now, they weren't very quick at all. but before this, before this journey, he spent quite a bit of time in illinois traveling by train because of the lincoln douglass debates. bob, do you want to talk a little bit about mr. lincoln's problems with the illinois central railroad during that period of time? >> my favorite story is one that i found in a book called lincoln and the railroads, only 227 copies wherever printed. i received the book because of -- it is a great thing, i had no idea existed before i got into the research for this book. you can buy this book from other libraries.

lincoln? we don't want to quite park on the 20th 21st century, but some of you here know my personal story of how i became interested in the presidency in the white house's my dear mother took me to see john f kennedy campaigning and our hometown of louisville, kentucky in october of 1960. just one month before he was elected and i always start with that story because my mother was not a political scientist or historian. she was out in the suburbs of louisville raising baby boomer children, and but was very well read and and a wonderful grammarian and a champion speller and and but she just was drawn to him we're catholic he was the same generation. he was a world war two veteran is it was my father but the next memory i have a i think i was about six was being taken to hodgenville, kentucky to see lincoln's birthplace. so one one moment taken to see an almost president one from some time before and then a couple years later my dad took me out to the airport in louisville to see ex-president e

that abraham lincoln went and - that abraham lincoln went and started — that abraham lincoln went and started a — that abraham lincoln went and started a new _ that abraham lincoln went and started a new party _ that abraham lincoln went and started a new party based - that abraham lincoln went and started a new party based on l that abraham lincoln went and . started a new party based on one issue. _ started a new party based on one issue. a — started a new party based on one issue. a single _ started a new party based on one issue, a single issue _ started a new party based on one issue, a single issue and - started a new party based on one issue, a single issue and that - issue, a single issue and that issued — issue, a single issue and that issued it— issue, a single issue and that issued it for— issue, a single issue and that issued it for the _ issue, a single issue and that issued it for the party- issue, a single issue and that issued it for the party was - issue, a single issue and that - issued it for the party was slavery. the aitusions — issued it for the party

people said the lincoln, you want to cancel this election. lincoln said no! we are fighting to prevent the -- to preserve the government. we are fighting the idea that if you lose the election, you get to start a. war we are fighting against that kind of idea. if we were to postpone the election because of the war, we've already lost the cause we are fighting. for if we postpone the election, we would stay in power, but we are fighting to maintain the idea of self government. we can't do that! we are going to hold election exactly is scheduled. we're gonna do exactly what the constitution says. right. but politics is tricky. how is that going to affect grants campaign? there is going to be a lot of scrutiny. it's going to be a lot of importance. but another thing. i already told you about the idea political generals, these are generals who are actually politicians because we can't trust the experts, i'm not saying that. the people kind of, there is a belief among some people, i know that sounds incredible today -- we cannot trust experts. they have been educa

and he said, i try to think that abraham lincoln would've done for the staff if he had lived. in that quote was the sort of seed that this book came from. it stems from a fascination about how they come about winning a after winning a war, something we've struggled with this century, not alone. also, the question of how we defend democracy and what kind of leadership it takes to reunite a divided nation. that's very much an extension of my previous books, especially the washington book. the question of how we strengthen democracies from those who would divide us. what kind of leadership what i call, and lincoln's case, a soulful centrist, a mediator in a time of reactionaries. and what qualities led him to be such a revolutionary figure in terms of spreading a vision of democracy that continues to inspire people because it was based on reconciliation? because he was someone who met hate with love, and brought a new testament leadership, i think, in some respects, so the national and international stage. >> watch the full program anytime online at c-span.org slash history by se

and it's really lincoln that created this. it's not in my book, but it needs to be mentioned. >> do you want to say, give us one more burst of line from your book because there is so much in it. >> i think on the slavery thing, this is the central issue, that is obsessing us now, we have to understand two things, more than two things but one, they all thought that slavery was on its last legs. maybe people in south carolina and jordan, george i didn't think that, but certainly that northerners did. that slavery was dying. and in virginia, washington had more slaves than what he knew what to do with and tobacco was no longer being grown because it exhausts the soil, they are turning to wheat, we does not require great labor, people like washington are renting out their slaves in norfolk or richmond and the idea of renting out the slaves, suddenly that is one step towards wage labor. so slavery is somehow on its last legs. i can give you dozens of quotations from many figures saying, and 30 years, 40 years there will be no slave

i just said it was lincoln who said it wasn't me? but anyway humor, he said whistled off sadness that a good story for him was better than a drop of whiskey. and he one time people said to him. why do you tell so many stories? and he said because stories are better than facts and figures stories have a beginning a middle and end he understood i think what is true and that's why even today we went to sagamore hill and there was a great. national park ranger there who was telling a stories about teddy roosevelt. there's something about stories who our brain is hardwired. so that stories of the way our ancestors used to tell people in the cave days. what the next generation would want to know so lincoln understood that and every great lecture when you look at the speeches he gave we remember the beautiful language, but they always told this is where we come from. this is where we are now. this is where we need to go. and then the other way he was able to find solace and relaxation was like many presidents. he found refuge by getting awa