our reporting reports to some of them talking to andrew giuliani. in the days and weeks before january 6, did they have a more direct line? that's something that remains to be seen. >> ben, ryan and david, thanks to all of you. >>> former trump chief of staff mark meadows is scheduled to appear before a grand jury in atlanta today. including, former president trump, then president trump, asking georgia's secretary of state to find those 11,780 votes, so he could beat joe biden in the state. joining us now, blayne alexander at the courthouse, jonathan lemire, and glen kirschner. do we know whether meadows showed up? >> reporter: the short answer is no, we don't know. this is a grand jury. it's a secretive process. we have been watching all of the entrances all day long. we haven't seen him walk in. there is that underground entrance where vehicles can enter. we have no way of knowing whether or not he actually used that entrance. as for what the d.a. wants to hear from him, she's laid out several things. at the top of the that list is information abo

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>> it shows the link between the oath copers and the white house, and andrew giuliani was texting with a member of lawyers for trump and involved in a lot of efforts to overturn the 2020 election, and some of what she saw was in detroit and it was later debunked, because she thought what she thought was a box of ballots and it was a tv crew's equipment, and a lot of nonsense that was being thrown around in 2020, and kelly surel, she told the oath keepers to delete their text messages, and she was charged herself in relation to the january 6th riot, and she invoked the fifth amendment so her testimony will not happen now. >> you and ryan also report that kelly sorelle also tried a white house number on december 20th, and journalists, hunter walker, that text message went to a white house switchboard line so couldn't be delivered. what is it that we keep hearing about the contacts? >> you probably meant to text somebody else, and we don't know who that was intended for, and it could have been andrew giuliani or somebody else. we don't know the nexus here. who was connected to who from th

we do know she was talking to andrew giuliani in the weeks after the 2020 election. both giuliani and cerelli say they were talk about election fraud issues, things that have been debunked and are incorrect. it's unclear who she was trying to contact with that text to the white house switchboard. we know the oath keepers sent letters to the president in the weeks before january 6th saying they were at the ready, they were ready to fight for, you know, what they believed to be -- if he sent out a note saying martial law or something, the oath keepers would be ready for this. that's what they showed on january 6th. they had quick response forces on the other side of the river ready to fight in a more armored way they did on january 6th if they breached the capitol. >> and a trial for some oath keepers members this week, i think maybe starting as early as today. ben, the big issue is this is i believe the first time of all the people who were there on january 6th rioting, were seditious conspiracy is in play. how could that be different? what would that mean? >> yeah. w

andrew, giuliani, possibly testing members of the group. does any that surprise you? that's not dozens telling a friend group, it's not like the right in the middle of it all. >> yeah, now, it does not surprise me at all, and i think we're gonna see a lot of revelations coming out, during the trial about connections with specifically, roger stone, giuliani, i'm sure. but i think it was really kind of stone that was probably the one taking the lead and opening lines of communication between the campaign, and then a ministration -- leaders of these different -- >> seditious conspiracy theories, those are serious charges. to think this is making any current members of the oath keepers kind of wake up to how serious this is, and the trouble they could all be in? >> i'm sure hope it is. i think it depends on how much account help, whether or not there are any repercussions to the events we saw, the violent insurrection we saw on january 6th. because thus far, there has not really been any really count held through these leaders. there's been some times, sure, but cases dis

giuliani during november, 2020, that's a definite link the you have in this chain, another piece of the puzzle. we have rudy giuliani, his father mentioning this idea of the oath keepers and proud boys. i think it's important to make that part of the puzzle as well. so i think this will definitely shape up and won that key moments i will be looking for in this testimony, is this moment on january six when another person who's expecting to testify, they've already told the court in sworn in his plea agreement that on the january 6th, stewart rhodes was in a hotel room trying to get in touch with donald trump, asking a trump intermediary put him in contact directly with donald trump and encouraging that intermediary to tell donald trump to call upon them that night. call them up and make them stop the peaceful transfer of power. that's a moment to definitely watch for in this trial. chris >> barbara, seditious conspiracy is a serious charge, it's not also a slam dunk, beyond people proving it beyond a reasonable doubt. your office brought this charge against a group called the atari m

giuliani. so the issues that you get a look at the data. they might look at thousands of leads, but these are not counterterrorism analysts. and what i'm saying, though, is that the investigation is going great. the committee has done well. but we are in a new war. we are in a forever war of information. and you have to look at these tiny pieces of data to really put together the command and control architecture that these individuals used. and the fact is, i think some of those dialogues that they're having, which some of it, some of its sad, i'm not a sociopath. sometimes, i get my feelings hurt. but they're still using our same data teams, the ones i built, the contrast, lines and lines of data, the text messages. that's all of our team. that's me. you don't, i find it interesting they say that. >> here's the other thing that i got from schiff's statement there, right? is that they understand they have a target painted on their back, right? and anything, and slipup, any error is going to be

andrew giuliani fell out. now we have a white house aide texting with an oath keeper charged with conspiracy. holy crap. those type of mistakes in data are critical. that's what i talk about in the boom. i want to committee to kick ass tomorrow. >> you said you were impressed with the way things were. are you still confident they've been able to pursue these leads from what you've seen so far or do you think the committee is wanting in some way? >> i think when you look at the day the, the committee doesn't have the authorities necessary. that's what i talk about. this is not a, this is a public trust investigation. this isn't fbi or doj. >> why do you think they're upset with you for coming out with this? >> they didn't read the book and now when they do, i think this calms down. i've been in politics, right. and i get it. right. because you know, you have to try. and these are good people. they've done a great thing for america. so and by the way, i got 20 years experience doing this and a former co congress

>> andrew giuliani worked as a sports liaison for the white house. he was texting with the general council of the oath keepers, kelly sorrell. she was constantly in contact with him about election fraud lies back in november of 2020. by 2021, she was tried to text somehow for some reason the switchboard at the white house. we don't know why she tried to do that. we don't know who she was trying to text instead, but that's who she was in contact with. we are largely trying to figure out the nexus between the white house, oath keepers, proud boys, these militant groups and the white house itself, but these should give some hints. >> there's a really interesting piece in politico that suggests the proud boys takes price in quote, their ability to convince the mainstream of the republican party that violence is sometimes the answer. how do you make this idea mainstream and clearly we know it got success. >> the goal now is not really for a lot of these people to win elections. it's to replace secretaries of state to get the results they want. if that doe

andrew chrisman, author of giuliani rise tragic fall of america's mayor. thank y'all thank you very much. that's tonight's read out. all in with chris a. starts now tonight on all in.ead >> you believe barr forced you out of that job because he no doubt believe that by removing the he could eliminate a threat to trump's reelection? >> just when you thought it couldn't be any worse than looked. >> we were very close to indicting that case around the time i got fired and barr knew about the

andrew chrisman author of giuliani the rise and tragic fall of america's mayor. thank you, appreciated. >> sure, thank you. they're wraps it up for this hour everybody, i'm yasmin vossoughian in the chair tomorrow. simone starts right now good afternoon. i'm katie fang in for symone coming up this hour, the judge departments appeal over the documents seized at mar-a-lago. the doc is saying that investigators had denied immediate access to classified. documents plus, the special master's first moves with the trump team and justice officials have to face off in person within days. and, more busloads of migrants arriving today in so-called sanctuary cities. how some republican governors are using people as pawns to make a political point. we will get into t

andrew chrisman, author of giuliani rise tragic fall of america's mayor. thank y'all thank you very much. that's tonight's read out. all in with chris a. starts now tonight on all in.ead >> you believe barr forced you out of that job because he no doubt believe that by removing the he could eliminate a threat to trump's reelection? >> just when you thought it couldn't be any worse than looked. >> we were very close to indicting that case around the time i got fired and barr knew about the case. >> tonight andrew weissmann at a stunning revelations from the snt why prosecutor fired by donald trump. then, what we are learning about newly unsealed portions of the mar-a-lago affidavit and the republicans unveiled their plan to abort plant that abortion nationwide. >> i thought of the night to introduce a bill. >> senator amy corker on the overwhelming backlash to lindsey graham's plan. >> give me a chance to vote on this bill. >> when all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. well, it was as bad as it looked, in fact it was even

joining us now, writer andrew kirtzman, author of a new book entitled "giuliani, the rise and tragic fall of america's mayor" and this is a question that many have been asking. you answer in the book, what happened to rudy giuliani. or was he always -- was he always, what is the wort that i could use carefully, conflicted. >> he's a very complex figure. and i had the same question and that is why i wrote the book. what happened to giuliani. and the giuliani story is one of the great rise and fall stories of our time. i mean, he was the most famous prosecutor of the 1980s. arguably the most famous mayor of the 1990s. after 9/11 he was more beloved than the pope according to the polling. and i think the short answer to what happened is desperation. it was desperation for power, desperation for money and then when it all came crashing down when he had a humiliating experience in the 2008 presidential race, he became desperate to recapture his relevance and that led him to donald trump. and donald trump was his kind of ticket back to relevance. and think every giuliani disaster since the

giuliani. it's called giuliani the rise and tragic fall of america's mayor and vivek ramaswamy, the new york times best selling author of woke inc, has a new book out. it looks at the state of american society. it's called nation of victims identity politics, the death of merit and the path back to excellence. npr legal affairs correspondent nina totenberg released her memoir, dinners with ruth. it focuses on her friendship of over 50 years with the late justice ruth bader ginsburg and new yorker war correspondent luke mogul and has a new book out. it's called the storm is here an american crucible. in it, he tracks the rise of right wing extremism and his experience. on january six, 2021, at the u.s. capitol. well, along with newly released books, we like to share some of the recent reviews of books that come out in national publications weekly. agent josephine chronicle. entertainer josephine baker's time as an anti-nazi spy in pre-world war two. paris. although many books and movies have chr