but barr set up the u.s. attorney in pittsburgh to take in evidence including evidence that rudy giuliani was given. we were a cab ride away from rudy giuliani. in this situation, rudy giuliani was required to drive all the way out to pittsburgh to provide whatever evidence. we wanted to see the evidence. and when we asked for the evidence that pittsburgh was collecting, and when bill sweeney, the head of the fbi in new york asked for that evidence, he was -- it was declined and we're talking about an fbi, what is called a 302, a summery of interview. we wanted to see it. >> with whom? >> that was i believe with rudy giuliani. and we wanted to see it. it was relevant to what we were looking for -- into. and sweeney wanted to see. it sweeney asked for it and he was declined. i talk about this in the book. he was declined access to it. >> i mean, what is clear in the book is that it wasn't just -- the corruption interference with fbi's ability to function as you said. and ukraine caught my eye for multiple reas

and barr knew about the case. and as you know, that case was indicted by the southern district of new york, by audrey strauss, who took over as acting u.s. attorney after i was fired. and she brought that prosecution. and then president trump pardoned steve bannon, which was an outrageous pardon. but that's one of the cases that we were investigating, and we were very close to indicting. and the other case was the ukraine investigation arising out of the lev parnas and fruman indictments. that was something we had been investigating for quite a while, and we continued to investigate for quite a while. both of them were very sensitive. >> geoffrey berman, former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, author of the very, very newsy new book, holding the line, inside the nation's preeminent u.s. attorney's office and its battle with the trump department. thank you for being noisy when it counted. thank you for relaying what you have done now. i imagine we're starting a new chapter on accountability at t

i don't think bill barr did that. you know, i voted to confirm bill barr. i have also ultimately said it was one of two or three that if i could take back, i would because it was pretty clear very soon afterwards that he was not going to represent the department. he was not going to be that independent voice that i thought would instill the integrity, but he would be doing the bidding. it was improper at the time. and as i think mr. berman said, what happened before the election is a completely different than what we see with bill barr. afterwards, he was on his way out the door. >> stewart, the thing is, you know, there is this thing that donald trump does. he either finds people who are corruptible or he corrupts them. it's hard to understand which it is. with barr, though, he wrote a memo, applying for the job, essentially saying please, sir, put me in coach. i'll save you from the mueller probe. outlined how he would do it in a memo, got the job, and came in and acted as the attack dog for the united states. something richard nixon really wanted his att

with that, michael barr. [applause] mr. barr: thanks, david, for that warm introduction. patients is definitely a virtue. thank you also to the brookings institution for the invitation to speak with you today. as most of you know, on july 19 i had the honor of being sworn in as vice chair for supervision of the governors of the federal reserve system. this job was created after the global financial crisis to lead the fed's work overseeing the safety and soundness of banks, and in support of its financial stability mandate. in the 12 years since then progress has been made in strengthening the banking system and oversight. i look forward to building on that work by helping to make the financial system safer and fairer in support of an economy that serves the needs of households and businesses. on behalf of those who may be wondering what building on that work means, i will speak about some of my near term goals and how i will approach achieving them. starting with that word filled in, which means more than just maintain. success in financial regulation and supervision does

>> so my problems were with attorney general barr. the idea that i would be referring a case to the office of responsible profession ability dealing with bill barr who was his boss would not go anywhere. it doesn't work and that's why our system requires people of good faith who will abide by their oath to keep the department of justice independent from politics. >> geoffrey berman thank you very much for delivering us the final story about this. it's gonna be fascinating to see what the senate judiciary committee asked of you and asked of others who are named in this book. thank you very much for joining. >> thank you for having me. >> coming up. white house chief of staff ron klain will join us next. so i can wake up refreshed. neuriva: think bigger. trelegy for copd. [coughing] ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on by... ♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪

>> so my problems with their attorney general barr. the idea that i would be referring a case to the office of responsible profession ability dealing with bill barr who was his boss would not go anywhere. it doesn't work and that's why our system requires people of good faith who will abide by their oath to keep the department of justice independent from politics. >> geoffrey berman thank you very much for delivering us the final story about this. it's gonna be fascinating to see what the senate judiciary committee asked of you and asked of others who are named in this book. thank you very much for joining. >> thank you for having me. >> coming up. white house chief of staff ron cain will join us next. ill join us next shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, m

and if you have lost bill barr, and bill barr is -- god. that is -- here is the downside, the delay. going to the court of appeals takes time. trump will then go to the supreme court, and take more time. i think he will lose in these places but that is a long time, possibly even years. the second option is seek clarification. go to the judge, and the judge obviously ba shift things. she said the current president biden has not waived executive privilege. -- by the government, the solicitor general, had a -- document from -- new my way of executive privilege by that. and could then you would enjoy saying, ask her to narrow the scope of the injunction, so that the investigation can proceed. downside, this judge doesn't seem all that amenable to reconsideration or logic. -- last option, most intriguing. the justice department can move this case to washington d. c.. this judge wrote su this judge wrote su es, you might he cases. so, judge cannon is really an extreme version. return to school. eto o'rourke was there. like quickly before we go, w

i don't barr to be running for president anytime soon. >> i don't either. you know, laura, as of right now there's this friday deadline for a joint filing on this proposed special master. these two sides haven't agreed on much so far. so how will this unfold? >> not in a timely way. it will probably be frustrating for everyone involved trying to get to the person they'd like to have be able to be set as that special master. but also the judge can have a very big role in this. she may have her own ideas about a truly objective party. but really it's going to come down to, wolf, the parameters of what the special master will look like. the timeline. will there be a deadline as well for how long it takes for these 11,000-plus documents to be reviewed? how about the timeline for getting the people who have to review this now some sort of security clearance including that special master if he or she does not already have some. and the attorneys for of course donald trump will likely have to go through a clearance process to figure out whether they agree with the

and that change for barr toward the end. and so, i am not surprised to see that he thinks this is also a bit of a bridge too far. i'm interested in how ever just the fact that barr was sort of known as attorney general as someone who had a very strong belief in, you know, the power of the executive branch, the power of the president himself. and now, he seems to be saying that, you know, trump really does not have a valid executive claim. perhaps this is all just because of the bitter taste left in his mouth after all that trump has said about him, and the way that he departed administration. but barr has had a bit of a shift here when it comes to trump. and it is also a reflection of what a lot of people who left that administration at the end felt about trump. they stayed for a lot of that presidency until the end. and they are in that club of people who think that perhaps trump should not be anywhere near the presidency. although we should be clear, don, bill barr has kind of danced around this issue of whether he would v

and that is bill barr. here is what he said about trump's claims about the classifying the documents. >> i frankly am skeptical of this claim that i declassified everything. because frankly, i think it's highly improbable. and second, if in fact he stood over scores of boxes. not really knowing what was in there. and saying i hereby declassifying everything in here that would be such an abuse. and show such recklessness, that it's almost worse than taking the documents. how long is the government going to try to get that back? they ben jawbone for a year. they've been deceived on the voluntary actions taken. they then went and got a subpoena. they were so deceived on that. they feel, and the facts are starting to show that they were being jerked around. and so, how long do they wait? >> so i mean, are you surprised by barr's support of the doj? >> i am, everything he says i agree with 100%. it's accurate it's right. ? it's a correct assessment of the law. in the facts. but it is stunning to hear william bar

this is the bill barr we were expecting. he didn't do if while on office, we can't give him a pass but he's made a drastic turn around here. >> you can tell he did because donald trump tore him up on truth social. >> i don't think those guys hang out very much anymore. natasha and ellie, thank you so much for being with us today. >>> scientists making a major breakthrough in the fight to save coral in the caribbean. the new and exclusive cnn reporting this morning. >>> and harry enten is hard at work on this labor day. we have the numbers behind the holiday next. cool. because the tempur-breeze° transfers heat away from your body... ...so you feel cool, night afafter night. for a limited time, save up to $700 on select* tempur-pedicic adjustable mattress sets. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ trelegy for copd. [couing] ♪ birds flyin' high, you know h i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on by... ♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with t

you can have people who as you said are like bill barr but even worse. he was thinking of installing sydney powell as a special counsel. the people he surrounded with to emulate are an absolute nightmare to a working fundamental democracy, so it's really unfathomable to people in the department and outside of the department, and those are republicans and democrats who i think all share that view if you believe in the rule of law. >> jeffrey berman i should say as a lifelong republican. andrew weizmann, thank you so much. >> you're welcome. >> coming up. a flurry of activity on multiple investigative fronts as relates to the ex president. january six committee is now teasing a new hearing and we will share new evidence with the doj. also what we're learning tonight from a newly unsealed portion of that mar-a-lago affidavit. that's next. if you have diabetes, then getting on the dexcom g6 is the single most important thing you can do. it eliminates painful fingersticks, helps lower a1c, and it's covered by medicare. before dexcom g6, i was frustrated. all

barr laughed. i think it's a crock of blank, adding that i don't think a special master is called for. but, daily eve of trump got suwannee special masters, they would never prevent the doj from going ahead and indicting him now, right? >> first i go back to my original point. this does not happen to regular people who are not donald trump. that will get the option to ask for a special master. in the past was ministers have been appointed, it's normally when there's a raid on attorney's office. that means that our offices are clearing comes as 40 of this criminal evidence that has to do with people who are not even relate to the topic. and it's kind of like a bus station of our officers of important attorney general information. the other thing, what with the special master even do to help trump team? i've been racking my brings about why this would possibly help. it's going to be neutral third party who might not side of the trump team. wilson fort lee, this many weeks later, doj has finished its

i would include bill barr on that list. and yet, even by standard, list the news and the waves he was making today. >> will the government be able to make out a technical case? will they have evidence that they could indict somebody on, including him, and that's the first questions and i think they are getting very close to that point frankly. >> your reaction, senator? >> well, i can tell you that for four years bill barr was the leading apologist and defense counsel for the president of the united states, donald trump. time and time and time again when it was bob mueller's investigation or the consideration of the actions taken by the president, bill barr was there to make an excuse to try to dir vermont attention from the president's wrongdoing. now he's being more forthcoming in his new role as just a citizen barr, and it appears that he's critical of trump for what he's done. he's saying the technical evidence is there. i don't know how you can deny that. we have photographic evidence even in the public realm that conf

that is bill barr. and the combination of those two, one in doj, the other leading the executive branch, leading the free world, leads in some ways to the erosion, the very assault on the basic foundations of our democracy. can you imagine deploying the fbi, the doj, to, you know, indict and convict your political opponents? that runs against everything that a democracy stands for. here's more evidence. the question is, what are we going to do with it? we've been asking ourselves all along, what are we going to do with the evidence? >> that's what we've been asking ourselves for five years, eddie. mike, i remember your reporting about how trump wanted jim comey and hillary clinton prosecuted. bill barr confirms that one of his last interactions, and it didn't go well with trump, was he was mad that he still hadn't prosecuted comey. we learned the other side of that, which was when trump was wrapped up in an investigation or prosecution, he didn't want evidence of that either. this is also from the "time

do you think that what barr is doing now is an attempt at a rehabilitation of his image? >> well, i talk about in my book, you know, barr after writing his book going on a book and rehabilitation tour. and look, when you examine whether people did their jobs during the trump administration, i think you should look as to whether they followed their oath prior to the november, 2020, election. after the election and after trump lost. i think a lot of people re-examined what their personal interests, recalibrated their personal interests, and so after the election, barr and others scurried off the ship. but before the election, he was doing the bidding of the president and undermined the rule of law and corrupted the department of justice. >> i have so many more questions for you. so stick around. i'm going ask but the prosecution of jeffrey epstein and what you told his victims. stay with us. we'll get to that next. stay with us. y system. >> customer: and they recycled my old glassss. >> tech: don't wait. schedule today. >> singegers: ♪ safelite repai, safelite replace. �

you talked to a close friend of barre seid. he said that seid described himself as prone to anonymity paranoia. so this leads to the issue of dark money. this is changing the landscape of politics in the united states. can you talk about what he wants to do with education, with medicaid, and of course the denial of climate science? >> so he is funny groups like the heartland institute that are hotbeds of climate denial. he is funny groups like state policy networks that push -- have opposed medicaid expansion, pushed deregulation and tax cuts at the state level, pushed voting restrictions. now he is giving money to leonard leo, who we understand seid considers himself a libertarian but letter leo is a staunch social conservative who has built the supreme court to tear down abortion rights in this country. we see he is funding a very radical right-wing program. amy: and education? >> well, so he has funded a lot of -- we believe some universities. he appears to be the donor gave 0 million to rename george mason university's law

when you've lost bill barr. that's where we start the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. charlie savage is here, author of a definitive piece of reporting about this very moment. frank figliuzzi is also here, former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence, both msnbc contributors. charlie, you have the reporting that really, frankly, bill barr makes some of the same points as some of the experts you talked to, but they don't have any sort of political affiliation or association. take us through your reporting on yesterday's decision. >> sure. well, i called many, many experts in criminal law, white-collar law, who are constitutional law, separation of powers experts, people who have dealt with special masters as former prosecutors, as defense attorneys, and i could not find anyone who was a serious lawyer immersed in this area who thought this was the correct decision. as your intro pointed out, people thought that the extension of a special master to executive privilege was unprecedent

bill barr is widely accepted among top conservative republicans in the country. of course, trump calling him a rino, and he addressed this on fox news, meaning a republican in name only. i think the criticisms have hurt him from people in trudge's base but barr laughed that off and said obviously he's a true conservative. he really disagrees with what's happening with the trump response with the fbi search of mar-a-lago. and he also said he disagrees vehemently with the decision to appoint a master. he's gone very far to criticize the steps that trump's legal team has been taking. it's fascinating coming after the january 6th hearings as we've seen many times in his take-up positions where he was very clear where he didn't think the 2020 election was stolen despite what trump was claiming and criticized trump and his team saying what they were trying to do with the department of justice wasn't sound and right. it's a voice for a lot of republicans who have known bill barr in this space for a long time. he served for bush in the past and his voice carries a lot of

yamiche: it is a window into what bill barr said, which is it is not just forgetting your library card and tang it with you. this is really big, incredibly important documents. there's also this fight over the special master. talk a little bit about how this might impact the doj's investigation, how it might stall it given the fact the judge is saying they should not have access to the documents. devlin: the judge has basically told the government you cannot use the classified information you took from mar-a-lago. what we have just seen is the justice department has filed a response saying you have to undo that restriction because we can't do the work we need to do to protect national security without restriction in place. their argument is, one, there could be more stuff out there we have not found, and if we can't look at the stuff we have found, we might not be able to trace it back to other things that might be out there. that's important because they have not made that suggestion before. the other part of it is, there is a damage assessment happening right now. the government said

bill barr is the ultimate unitary executive guy. in his view the president has the ultimate power in the executive branch. i'm sure he is of the view the president has unlimited power to declassify. but what bill barr is saying there is an important distinction. even if the president has unlimited power to declassify, there is no evidence and plenty of counter of evidence to this notion that he actually did it. you can have the power but if you didn't exercise it when you were president, you can't exercise it now in 2022. i agree with bill barr on that and i agree with him on the earlier clip that we played. he can understand as a former attorney general that basically doj got strung along over a year, jawboned to use his colorful expression. i think he's right when he essentially concludes doj had no choice but to go in and execute that search warrant. >> and carrie, one other thing he said, bill barr, the whole idea of a special master is a red herring and a waste of time. part of his reasoning is the justice department has alread

does bill barr today change any of that? >> maybe as to those folks who aren't 100% loyal to donald trump. the folks who were 100% loyal to donald trump and believe everything he says are never going to be swayed by what bill barr says. so from a political per spelktive, no, they're not going to be swayed by this at all. but in the general court of public opinion i think having bill barr, former attorney general coming out and saying basically this idea he could, you know, willy-nilly declassify documents is garbage is certainly something that folks are going to, you know, pay attention to, you know, beyond the folks that just are blindly loyal to trump. >> jim schultz, george conway, to have you both here tonight. thank you. >>> out front next president biden sharpening his mid-term message warning republicans who refuse to accept the 2020 election results are a threat to democracy. if that message, though, breaking through? >> plus it's a story you'll see first on out front. one town at the center over a bitter battle over

this is the former attorney general bill barr. i want to play for everyone what he said about the mar-a-lago investigation on fox news. listen to this. >> let me just say i think the driver on this from the beginning was, you know, loads of classified information sitting in mar-a-lago. people say this was unprecedented. well, it's also unprecedented for a president to take all this classified information and put them in a country club, okay. and how long is the government going to try to get that back, you know? they jawboned for a year. they were deceased on the voluntary actions taken. they then went and got a subpoena. they were deceased on that, they feel. and the facts are starting to show that they were being jerked around. so how long do they wait? >> you know, nick, i want to come back to you in one microclimate on this point. but laura, on your end, the fact that bill barr is coming out pretty forcefully against trump on fox news, i wonder what message this might send? keep in mind, as we all know, this is somebody who ha

i've always been suspicious of barr. there's never any time when he's not the villain and i wonder why is he suddenly all trying to be on the right side of history when it comes to trump, when it comes to january 6th, whether he lost the election, saying it's bullshit, of course he lost the election and now coming out saying, hey, he might get indicted this. new berman book is damning. looks like it's going to be damning just per the "new york times" reporting. he was fixing stuff to go after trump's enemies. trump wanted everyone including john kerry and anyone who was perceived to be a problem for him and it feels like barr was willing to do it. do you feel like this is reputation maintenance in advance? >> bill barr is onries each are youtation rehabilitation tour, and quite frankly when i have someone who committed a whole bunch of crimes and they have never been accountable for those crimes and then they start to say a whole lot of good stuff about the crimes of others and they are all about accountability, i'll tel

>> first of all, i've never met bill barr. i can tell you i think all of us agree he does remain steadfast in one thing, and that's the principle of protecting presidential power and presidential authority. i think we can agreen that, that that is where he's coming from and that's where this kind of refreshing view emanates from. what most people have a problem with -- and just make it as simple as possible for people. when you have merrick garland and many others who echo that term like you tell your children, no one is above the law, but then you see not once, but twice, bill barr, the same perso person, when he talks about the mueller investigation and he talks about the obstruction of justice, and the evidence is clear there is evidence to charge someone with obstruction of justice, that has not happened. then you heard in his statement today, the question should be, should a former president, even if the evidence rised to beyond probable cause, should a former president be indicted? for me, the answer should be yes. now,

it's remarkable to hear bill barr say that. this is the guy who, you know, cleaned up the mueller report and twisted what the mueller report said and put it out in front of the american public. it just really is quite a world that we're in that bill barr is now saying, look, this is really bad. this is really damning for the president to a fox news audience, no less. i can't imagine the emails and angry tweets bill barr is getting after throwing that all out there, nicole. >> there will be no violence for him here, but neal, i want to come to you on this serious point that everyone's getting at and that's not just that trump does not have a possession of the records and the classified do you means and neither do his lawyers at this point that we know about and in terms of lying on his behalf when he's out there saying, no, i kept my classified stuff in cartons. they weren't on the floor. they confessed that there were crimes under investigation. >> his lawyers made one of them, and it was reported that she sign happened a docum

those were bill barr's words as former attorney general. i will also say as someone who has been out on the campaign trail talking to voters recently, i think this is something that i think people across the country are paying attention to. this idea that former president trump was not diligent in safeguarding the secrets of this country and it shows the recklessness on the part of him and if you're a critic of former president trump on the campaign trail and this shows you even more who is in office in 2024. if you're a republican in this country there's still a faction of loyal trump supporters who see this as the fbi overreaching and when you read this article you understand how important it was to the doj. >> andrew weissmann, i also think that there are some patterns now that i think we can take into the full picture that when it comes to donald trump, the fbi does not overreach. they do what they have to do to try to ensure that the rule of law and the united states of america is preserved. and as we gain more visibility, perhaps, thi

notable comments from bill barr. elie, joshua, thank you for breaking that down for us. >>> we have new signs that inflation might be slowing down, but a big question still to remain is, is it enough to change the mind of the federal reserve chair? it's also been five days and many people in jackson, mississippi, still don't have water. will the federal government deliver a fix? that's a “club” i want to join! let's hear from simone. chuck, t that's a club i want to join! i literally just said that. i like her better than you the new subway series. what's your pick? bother the bugs... gotcha. ...not your family. zevo is made with essential oils which attack bugs' biologal systems. it gets rid of the bugs plus is safe for use around people and ts. zevo. people-fridly. bug-deadly. (vo) get business internet from verizon, the network businesses rely on. ditch cable and switch to verizon business internet, with fast, reliable solutions, nationwide. find the perfect solution for your business. from the network busines

bill barr there. saying that he thinks the government is close to having enough evidence to indict trump. do you think he's right? >> absolutely. there is enough evidence just based on the fact that he has all this classified documents, and then when they try to get them from him, he basically concealed them. we don't really know the full extent of all this. but just the possession, and knowing the possession of these documents is a violation of the act. that's the problem, the espionage act covers a wide range of activity. starting with knowing possession, to right up to the point to providing the information to a foreign adversary. we don't really know where on the spectrum donald trump really fits on this. and that's gonna make a big difference in terms of informing the decision by the department of justice, whether they indict, if they indict, on what they indict, and how serious the indictment becomes. the more you get closer to one end of the spectrum, the more palatable it is to be able to brin

are republicans and trump camp, and they reading barr's comments the same way joyce says? i keep hearing barr saying the doj has almost enough evidence to indict him. >> republicans have remained pretty mama on this, but i tend to agree with joyce here, which is that most people in the republican party took a former attorney general barr's comments to mean the former president shouldn't be indicted and the president should the precedent shouldn't be broken. he is protected by a sort of, the things that come with a post presidency, and that the former president should go quietly into the night. that being said, republicans are just coming back to washington d.c. now. they're going to be facing an onslaught of questions from reporters, senate republicans have already returned. house republicans just coming back next week, so i certainly think that we are going to hear more varied responses. maybe some people finally turning the corner as the news about what exactly was taken by the fbi from mar-a-lago as underscoring the severity of the investigation as we reported yesterday

when barr was attorney general, there were -- even before barr was attorney general, there were deep concerns about the political v politicization of the justice department. you had a president of the united states who was out there talking about ongoing criminal investigations, identifying publicly people he thought should be investigated. that was very concerning to a lot of people at the time. it was something that we closely watched. we tried to get inside the justice department as much as possible to understand what was going on. a lot of this stuff was laid out in the muller report about trump's attempts to weaponize the justice department. but we didn't have a full picture. what berman's book does is its confirms many people's worst fears about what was going on inside the justice department, that it was as bad as people thought it feels, that there was the pressure not only to protect the president but to go after his enemies. i think that's an important distinction, because it's one thing to sort of try and block and interfere with an investigation into yourself. it raises q

former attorney bill barr live onset here. correspondent of the justice department breaks down the latest in this saga. hi, david. >> hi, martha good to be with you. all is in the hand of bill barr's successor merrick garland at the department of justice. merrick garland's team to decide if doj will file an appeal to this ruling by judge aileen cannon. right now the department of justice cannot continue the investigation into the former president for this judge's order while they wait to appoint a special master. this is a live look outside of the 11th circuit court of appeals in atlanta if the department of justice appeals a three-judge panel with the circuit court of appeals in atlanta to hear the case. of the 11 active judges on the circuit court market six appointed by donald trump. a doj spokesman tells fox news that the government is looking over the order by judge aileen cannon of south florida for 2020 appointee. no word on that appeal from doj. canon wrote yesterday in a labor day order, "the special master shall be a

here is what trump's former attorney general, bill barr, as in the bill barr -- here is what he had to say about the whole mar-a-lago ordeal. >> i think that whole idea of a special master is a bit of a red hearing herring. even if they are subject to executive privilege they still belong to the government. >> he's there and the legitimate reason for those materials to be in the former presidents possession? >> no. i cannot think of a legitimate reason why they could be taken out of the government, away from the government, if they are classified. i personally think that for them to have taken things to the current point, they probably have pretty good evidence. the facts are starting to show that they were being jerked around. i think the driver on this from the beginning was that it was, loads of classified information sitting in mar-a-lago. people say this was on unprecedented. well, it's also unprecedented for a president who take all this classified information and put it in the country club. >> yowza!! joining us now is nicholas wu -- congressional reporter for politico, justice

bill barr also talked about this in the last hour. >> i think the whole idea of a special master is a bit of a red herring. at this stage, since they have gone through the documents, i think it's a waste of time. >> kevin mccarthy sent a letter to the attorney general asking he and the fbi director christopher wray testify about what's going on, so many lawmakers want to know what's happening behind the scenes, even some democrats calling for congress to be briefed and the attorney general, you talked about this, if the former president would be charged, barr wants to see where the case leads, he doesn't hope it happens but it's out of his hands. >> john: and people say if the president is charged for having classified materials are charged, that would be a double standard with how hillary clinton was treated in 2016, she had classified emails on the server, she was not prosecuted. how can you not prosecute her -- >> it could be the obstruction argument, even barr said look, the government made it very clear they want to work with trump's people to get the material back. but what was

and chad and cathy, bill barr said a lot today on fox news. he even said this about the special master. >> i think the whole idea of a special master is a bit of a red herring at this stage since they've already gone through the documents. i think it's a waste of time. >> then he also spoke with "the new york times" tonight and had this quote calling it a crock of sugar. do you agree? >> pigs must be able to fly because i agree with bill barr on something. the special master is a tomtal red herring. they're still government records. they belong to the government, not to donald trump. they belong to the archives where they're supposed to be documented and logged for historical reasons. the presidential library if donald trump wanted to build one. they're not his personal records. they're not his souvenirs. everyone is waiting for this ruling from the judge. every day that passes, every hour that passes without an injunction from that judge they're still passing what they've got and doing their work. >> a good point time is of the essence. i don

he's already written off bill barr. but bill barr did work at the cia earlier in his career, so he probably has a better personal understanding of the nature of these classified documents than a lot of the other president's supporters or some of his lawyers who have never worked with this material before. there's also the factor that some things are almost impossible to excuse. yes, we could have said that about many things in the past. bill barr also was not a fan of what happened on january 6th. but in this case, if you look at the affidavit that went to the judge who authorized the search and seizure, if you look at the government's filings in the special master case, this is not a close call. this is not a matter of fine legal judgment. there is essentially no case for the former president because all of these records are presidential records and as the former president, he has no title or right to possess them. so, the former attorney general of the united states, no matter how politicized he was on some issues, he

i agree with former attorney general barr, that it's a bad decision. needs to be appealed. i think the justice department will do that. because the reality is, if you are dealing with top secret, secret classifications on documents, i don't know what kind of master you'd have to appoint in order to be able to have somebody who has the clearances necessary to make these decisions. in the end, it is the government's responsibility to look at these documents and determine how they are to be maintained. that, i think, is the issue at stake here. >> mr. secretary, good morning. it is willie geist. as someone who was the head of the defense department and ran the cia and spent so much of his life protecting the united states of america, what is your reaction, first of all, just to seeing the sheer volume of documents discovered by the fbi at mar-a-lago, and then the classification of those documents? >> look, this is a very serious matter. i think the american people need to understand how serious it is. because it involves our national security. >> right. >> the reason we classi

from bill barr, what is the impact? >> erica, well, my book, of course, to be clear is very critical of bill barr and i think we have to keep in mind that during his tenure as attorney general, baierl was a wildly dishonest operator. he covered up for donald trump. he cheerloaded some of donald trump's political talking points and conspiracy theories, so you take that same person and now we see what he's saying and i think really makes his comments resonate even more strongly. this is a trump longtime partisan and loyalist, but let's also remember bill barr has had experience as attorney general, twice. he's actually one of two people ever who served as a.j. twice, once in the early '90s under george w. bush and of course now under donald trump. he's able to understand the position that doj was in here. he understands that doj got dragged out and slow-played for over a year, that they tried to subpoena, they still didn't get all the document, and i think bill barr is able to put himself back in the seat at doj and say w

and you even have the most hard right lawyers saying what attorney general barr is now saying, which is did he break the law, yes, of course he broke the law. are the papers his papers, no, they're not his papers. should he be arrested. that's where the debate stands. and yet another far right legal analyst came out and said the same thing, so, again, you see the news and you sort of draw a breath, but at the same time, it's not so surprising. one person after another person after another person, every day, is facing justice for being part of a mob that tried to overturn a presidential election. and the person that they all credit for getting them there, the person that inspired them to do that. the person who was the head of that conspiracy to commit sedition against the united states. he's living in his country club in florida. at some point justice is served and at some point, americans can be assured that no man, no woman is above the law. >> and of course as you say, even william barr, trump's attorney general, saying the justice department, it appears has enough to indict the q