donald trump has done he's seen the success of donald trump. but we've just got to remember, it's not necessarily like to say, well, i'd like to get trump policies, but without trump, again, like i was saying earlier, you know, it's it's easy in our minds to think about, well, wouldn't it be really great? but there's reality. and the reality is that a lot of trump's support is tied to his personality. it's tie to him. so this this it's sloppy, intellectual thinking to think that you can simply get trump's policies, put another person there, and that automatically it all just goes over. it's not i mean, it could happen over time, but it's certainly not an automatic thing. so i would caution that says, well, i want trump's policies, but i don't want trump, you know, that that again, while it basic sense and we would all love in in some ways to have those kinds things be real and be able to materialize and come to fruition. they're just not going to donald trump has a very significant following. and until rhonda sanders or mike pence or any of the

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donald trump's possession. cnn reports the trump attorney 's discovered pages with classified markings and december, while searching through boxes at the former president's mar-a-lago residents. the lawyers subsequently handed the materials over. a trump aide had previously copied those same pages onto a thumb drive and laptop, not realizing they were classified, sources said. the laptop, which belonged to an aide, who works for save america pac and the thumb drive were given to investigators in january. of course, once the document had been digitized and put on the thumb drive it could be reproduced in unlimited numbers and sent to anyone, anywhere in the world. according to the new york times, jack smith is on the classical investigative route of following the money. the times reports in addition to the documents and the january 6th investigations, mr. smith appears to be pursuing an offshoot of the january 6th case, examining save america, a pro trump political action committee, through which mr. trump raise

donald trump running at only 30%. here is the republican front runner ron desantis today responding to donald trump's attack against him yesterday. >> i spend my time delivering results for the people of florida and fighting against joe biden, that's how i spend my time. i don't spend my time trying to smear other republicans. >> joining us now stuart stevens a veteran of five republican presidential campaigns, he is the author of it was all a lie, how the republican party became donald trump. stewart, donald trump's attempt to intimidate prosecutors on the issue of indicting him by being the front runner for the republican nomination isn't working out as planned. >> yes, you know, listen, lawrence i still think donald trump will be the nominee. i thought it was interesting that the sentence didn't deny this allegation against him. but, i suspect that this will have some impact the fact that he is going to be running for president, we will be in debates here, i don't know, in a few months, probably, there will certain

donald trump today, donald trump tomorrow, donald trump forever. i wouldn't care if they may --made donald trump king of this country because at least i would know my family is safe. this country would have a little morality and dignity. we would not be like these democrats. if we could get rid of them, that will be the best thing to ever happen to this country. host: exactly what would you like a second term of donald trump to look like specifically? caller: i would like him to outlaw the democratic party. i would like him to arrest our media that committed treason against him. but can i tell you why i would never vote for nikki haley? i think you people in the media might want to worry about that a little bit. donald trump one half -- he won't care if you want to impeach him again. you all are talking about russia. host: your criticism of nikki haley, what is that? caller: what is that? for one, she took down the confederate flag. she has zero chance of winning in the south. she came out two months ago that she would never even consider running a

donald trump is fine. i like donald trump. donald trump can't win. he's a loser. i am going to bring you to the promised land. that's the only thing you can say. this ridiculousness of them bowing in front of this false god is just -- is actually quite pathetic. but the strategy is basically you don't have to completely diss donald trump. donald trump served a purpose and cannot win. desantis who i don't care for has the best story in that he is a proven winner. whether you like or don't like the politics can stand on the platform of winning. donald trump had the time and the place. i don't bestow any negativity on him but i can win. that's the platform, a winning ticket. >> again i don't think people will do it. i don't know that desantis will do it. these republicans are -- >> why are they so scared? the guy has like seven legal cases against him right now on top of everything else. >> some republicans don't want donald trump to be the next president or the next nominee. you can cross donald trump. whether you like him or not, the guy loses. he' a loser. he put

if you are ron desantis and you he beat donald trump, excuse me, donald trump is probably going to undermine you in the general election. i don't like all 30% of the republican party that support donald trump are gonna stay home, because trump is not the nominee. but if it's five or 10%, if he's claiming fraud like he did in iowa in the 2016 primary, he is going to undermine whoever the nominee is if it's not him. forget the pledge, i think we should expect that, and you have to be thinking about that if you can potentially get in the race. >> the other thing about the pledge is it's just dumb. what do you hope to accomplish with this idea of getting these guys to sign a piece of paper that if donald trump is the nominee. i can tell you that, if donald trump's nominee larry hogan's gonna be hard-pressed to stand up there -- >> it's about the debate, but i don't think donald trump really needs the debate stage. that's another thing we need to question. is donald trump actually gonna go on a debate stage? >> and there is the same reason for donald trump or frankly anyone else can say i'm not s

donald trump and ron desantis. pamela paul writes today that liberals can learn a lot from desantis. quote, it would be tempting to write off desantis, the bombastic republican governor of florida, as another unelectable right wing lunatic unfit for national office. we've made that mistake before. we're back with my guests. natasha, basically what pamela paul is saying is that desantis is not trump. people who think he's the new tangled trump, he's not trump. he's stolen a page from trump. but her argument is we shouldn't write him off. compare their respective back ground think. trump's acceptance into the university of pennsylvania after an academic known only for mediocrity. desantis, the son of a tv ratings box installer and a nurse earned his way into the i'vy league. he worked his way through yale while playing baseball and graduated magnum cum laudee. >> it sounds like she's really impressed by his resume. >> i think that was a lesson learned with donald trump. i think when donald trump ran, it changed our s

we like donald trump. but here's the creamy thing -- creepy thing, lindsey graham is not a donald trump fan boy, he's an enemy of donald trump and we know that not from what he says but ignore what he says but watch what he does. this is the same lindsey graham spent four years while donald trump was president trying to undermine his biggest priorities on the biggest issues, foreign policies and immigration. one point he said the border wall wasn't real and met fore for border security. he didn't want trump to build an actual wall to prevent actual people from invading an actual country. he wanted a met fore. how'd that work? 7 million people later, not very well. metaphors don't secure your country and on foreign policy, graham became apoplectic when trump wanted to withdrew troops from syria. he called that a big win for isis as if trump was on the side of isis. as if trump was supported snuff videos. right. you know who they are inside by the nature of their attacks. are the attacks fair or are they re-

grand jury investigating donald trump. but first we're gonna widen the focus to what is really at stake in the grand jury's criminal investigation of donald trump in georgia and jack smith's, two federal grand jury investigations of trump for possible illegal conduct involving his possession of government documents and possible crimes leading up to and on january 6th. the import of the crimes being investigated in each of those criminal investigations is that any criminal conduct found in the georgia investigation or in jack smith's january six investigation weighs heavily on the future of democracy in america. we have, for the last two years, been at a tragic political crossroads in this country now that one of the two major political parties no longer believes in democracy as a basic organizing principle of that political party. 139 republican members of the house of representatives voted to overturn the last presidential election. they voted to overturn the will of the people, the votes of the people, including the will

they don't want donald trump again. think of the legal and political issues around donald trump and half of republicans say let's look for somebody else. let me flip that coin. this is trump's advantage in a crowded field. 44% say nominate trump. if donald trump can stay in the high 20s or low 30s and get close to that, six or eight other candidates, winner take all, that's the challenge. trump is weakened but not weak. want to show you this number. people say what do you care about what democrats think of joe biden on this day. six in ten democrats want somebody other than joe biden right now. why do i point that out? democrats want someone other than biden. republicans want somebody other than trump. if there's an opening for somebody like haley it seems across the american electorate all voters are open to the idea of somebody new, fresh. the question is can she start today from a low position and make that progress? that's the challenge. >> but there's a lot of time. i twoopts bring in abby phillips and dana bash, p

second to only donald trump himself. now he hasn't declared yet himself, but we do expect that to happen. nikki haley is very early on, probably trying to get more media attention and potentially more money from the donors. so the field isn't crowded right now. she isn't a threat, but nobody expected donald trump to be threat to anybody back in 2016 and yet he got elected. so this is a very open race. and the big question mark is with a nikki, haiti will be able to get more traction. and what the reaction will be when the field gets more crowded. one thing is for sure, because that's mathematics. the more crowded the republican field gets, the better it is for donald trump to be a wildcard, once again in 2024. while the red carpet is being rolled out here in berlin, ahead of the opening of one of the world's biggest public film festivals, the 73rd berlin ali kit 6 kicks off on thursday with 19 movies vying for the golden and silver bare prizes. this year's event will also have a special focus on the recent anti governmen

also former vice president of donald trump. mike pence is also expected to enter the race to others are also potential. so it's really very much early days. the more people join the primaries, the more likely mathematically it becomes fidelmo term to pull through the end to once again become the wild card. this is a party that is an in a turmoil. it is fighting with itself over the very person from one thing is for sure though, that trump is them, will survive into this next election campaign. and here the question is, where the nikki haley who entered the race making a big thing about her immigrant legacy. her parents came from india and, and at the same time, she was someone who really back trump during his heyday is it all says un ambassador, whether she will find a way to navigate this and actually oppose him and to become that new generation. she said that the party once and clearly the desire is there, but who will fit that bill? i have question marks whether nikki haley really would become the person to do that wrong. di

we start talking to those folks, they are still dug in, ryder died for donald trump. and i really wanted to figure out how big is that group of people. so we commissioned a poll, which was released today and we ask a question that i was dying to know the answer to. to, if donald trump ran as an independent, he loses the republican primary and runs as an independent, would you vote for him as an independent candidate, at 28% of the voters on the survey said, yes, and this was where donald trump's leverage is. he doesn't need the whole party, he just needs this dog in raleigh to help and claw his way into position for the republican primary. that's what they are so scared of. even if they got a guy like ron desantis who in this poll was beating trump head to head on a ten way ballot, do a ballot, trump's dead luck on that group of voters is what has them so afraid to do anything to block him. >> your polling had andy to weigh desantis up quite a bit, 52 to 30. in a true way, that strength a little bit. in a five way, it shrinks even more. of course, it will be like nine

., two men had continued to close in on donald trump. he has read and reviewed the book the just heard about, rachel maddow's interview with warren prosecutor mom mike pomerantz, that's next. rantz, that's next plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. having triplets is... -amazing. -expensive. okay, well that too. so, we switched to bargain detergent, but we ended up using three times as much and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back to tide. they're cuter in clean clothes. mhm. they are. thanks honey. you suck at folding. oh, i know. do 3x the laundry and get a tide clean. it's got to be tide. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ moderate-to-severe eczema. it doesn't care if you have a date, a day off, or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments.

trump but with donald trump supporters. so far, she's -- i take john heilemann's point, this is her debut, but at some point, she's going to have to go after him. he's the only other candidate running at the moment. she can't go through the whole of this primary campaign ignoring donald trump. it is not possible. she has given us no indication so far, just as ron desantis has given us no indication so far, of how she'll actually handle the bully when he is right in front of her on a debate stage. i don't think we've had an indication from either her video or her speech yesterday that she's particularly prepared to do that or has a plan for how to do that. >> yeah. and, michael steele, you look at one quote after another from ronald reagan. it's all about optimism. when the lord calls me home, whenever that may be, i will leave with the greatest love for this country of ours and eternal optimism for its future. optimism is in order. day-to-day democracy is proving itself to be not at all a fragile flower. and he goes through

it is that the boots of the insurrection, donald trump's footsoldiers, we're following donald trump's directives, let's face it, he said, your vote was stolen. the election was rigged, your president is being unlawfully taken from you, now, go to the capital and stop, that's an action word, stop the steal, stop the certification. and they listen to him, and they obeyed his commands, his directives. they are being tried, convicted and imprisoned, and the person who gave that order, on lawful order though it may be, is out playing golf and running for president again. that, i'm sorry, is a deep injustice going on right now. the only way it can be remedied is with donald trump being charged for his crimes. >> yeah, we'll see objects but we have to do anything about that. glenn kirschner, jill wine-banks, thank you so much. greatly pressure your time and insights this evening. when we come back, 20 years ago, an inmate at sing sing correctional facility who claimed he was innocent, wrote to ask and nbc news investigative producer to look into this case. what happened next is the subject o

donald trump is not afraid of her. donald trump just quietly said, good lock. and faded into the background. if donald trump is afraid of somebody, he comes after them. with everything he's got. he's not afraid of nikki haley and it's obvious. and i don't know how she -- republican party. despite spouting poll tested phrases that don't mean anything. she's in trouble. >> it seems like it's off to a rocky start. claire mccaskill, michael steele, always a pleasure. thank you very. time and that is all in on this thursday night. i'm ayman mohyeldin in for chris hayes. alex wagner tonight starts right now. >> it's always good to see you, a man. great to share the studio with you. great show. and thanks to at-home for joining us. first, it was the lawyers, trum

he is pretty much broken a relationship, and, what donald trump because he believed donald trump out there to him and his family in such a great danger for what reason is obvious. second, you asked, is it possible, pence is trying, trump is trying to win over pence? it's always possible. but, i think your first theory has a little more strength. which is, donald trump is worried about his classified records, exposure right now. this is a case that is probably causing the former president the most sleepless nights because it's the easiest case to establish that he was engaged in potential obstruction of a subpoena. seeking classified records, remember, his team asserted to the department of justice that they've done a diligent surge and all the records have been returned. and then the fbi agents coming at the department of justice's best, and one bullet hole, they find a lot of classified records. , so i think donald trump, who is often focus on donald trump it's mostly excited to say, look, pence had them to. he's a good guy. he didn't do anything wrong, seen here. >> silly me. i tho

he's pretty much broken a relationship with donald trump because he believed donald trump put him and his family in such danger for what reason is obvious. second, you asked is it possible pence is trying -- forgive me, trump is trying to win over pence. it's always possible, but i think your first theory has a little more strength, which is donald trump is worried about his classified records exposure right now. this is a case that is probably causing the former president the most sleepless nights because it's the easiest case to establish that he was engaged in potential obstruction of a subpoena seeking classified records. remember his team asserted to the department of justice that they'd done a diligent search and all the records had been returned, and then the fbi agents come in at the department of justice's behest and lo and behold they find a bunch of classified records. so i think donald trump who's often focused on donald trump is mostly excited to say, look, pence has them, too, he's a good guy, he didn't do wrong, same here. >> silly me, i thought it could be long for the

it's much less about mike pence and much more about donald trump protecting donald trump. >> why are we not surprised about that? okay. charles coleman, thank you so much for weighing in. it's an elephant in the room when it comes to the president running in 2024. now a prominent democrat's saying, you know, it just doesn't matter. we will talk about it next. it next postmenopausal women with hr+ her2- metastatic breast cancer are living longer with kisqali. so, long live family time. long live dreams. and long live you. kisqali is a pill proven to help women live longer when taken with an aromatase inhibitor. and kisqali helps preserve quality of life. so you're not just living, you're living well. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizzine

he talked often about the trump pence agenda, and wants to associate himself a lot with donald trump, but at the same time, he wants to present him as risky, it is a really difficult high-wire to walk it will be interesting to see if he can pull it off. but upsetting the trump base as being involved in this subpoena is usually not a good starting place. >> no, it's not, and then simultaneously, eugene, we have this whole second track investigation and having to do with the handling of classified documents. now, obviously, pence is now involved in this, joe biden has been involved in this, donald trump has his own issues with this. now, let's discuss mike pence's handling of the situation vis-À-vis comparing it to donald trump. do you think, let's say, if he does run for president, that pence can use this? or, like with biden, has it been nullified because a classified document has been found on pence's property as well? >> if i'm advising mike pence or if i am mike pence, i am not going to want to bring this up as a point of difference between me and donald trump. because you don't w

if there is an indictment of donald trump, it will be a big deal. we've got a long way to go in that case. >> and nina, we've mentioned the former president reacting to some of this. what is he saying? >> well, he's saying it's kind of the greatest hits of the kind of response that you hear from donald trump that we're all familiar with now, about the partisan prosecutor calling reverse racism, whatever that means. i just want to add one other thing to what elie was saying about what this foreman said. i went to kate baldwin, i will be sad if nothing happens. i can tell you that as that interview was going on, i was texting with a former trump attorney who's still very much plugged into trump world. he was saying what ali said, that this is like just gold for them. not only legally, but also politically. and kind of laughing about the fact that, yes, i mentioned that you have georgia, you have new york, you have doj. a lot coming at him.

i think donald trump may get his mojo back. one never knows. [ overlapping speakers ] >> with donald trump, one never knows. margaret and john, great to see both of you. we'll see you next week in d.c. thanks to all. >>> the supreme court hearing the second of two cases that could change the internet. and who is really responsible for what people post? stay with us. turns out, some wishes do come true. and it turns out the general is a qualityty insurance company that's been saving peoeople money for nearly 60 years. for a great low rate, and nearly 60 years of quality coveragage- go with the general. when you stay at a vrbo you always get the whole home not part of it but the whole upstairs the whole downstairs the whole fridge and the whole secret napoom because is it really a vacation home if you have to share a house with a host? ♪ only with vrbo ♪ hey, heading on a family trip? nah, sorry son prices are crazy, we're gonna have to skip it this year. (son deflating fully to the ground.) awh, well use priceline they have

trump, not just somebody who i different from donald trump. the real question is whether or not they will be appealing to voters, again, just like in any other state, looking for an alternative but don't necessarily want someone who is all that different. this aspirational, more optimistic message, the reagan-esque message, it's not been that successful for republicans since donald trump came onto the scene at least during primaries. we saw this in 2016, we sawt in 2020 the candidates who won primaries for governor, for senate, for congress, ran much more like donald trump than like nikki haley or tim scott. the appetite may not be there. amna: both candidates are from south carolina and both candidates of color. once on much of the party messaging right now seems to be pushing back on the idea of a more diverse america, decrying the so-called "woke'agenda, how do these candidates fit into that? amy: it was fascinating, they did not use the term woke at all, they said look at me and my family, how can we be a country that doesn't offer the pro

donald trump the personality, without donald trump the rockies, without donald trump the mess. and so, what he is trying to do is lean into a governance, subtle strategy. where if you feel the country is moving in the wrong direction, culturally, and you have wokeness or the like, you can still vote for this person. but you can do it without having a porn star scandal at the same time. >> [laughter] excellent. how do you say it, some people like that. >> there is a graveyard somewhere full of republican primary contestants who were second term governors who had peak this early in the race. i mean, jeb bush is in there, scott walker's and their. i don't think anybody wants to be peaking this early. all it does is healthy with money. but $100 million did not help jeb bush get the nomination. you are right, i totally agree with the analysis that he's trying to be trump, but just a little bit more buttoned down. what he doesn't have that trump has is the kind of broad scale charisma. i mean, like him or hate him, donald trump can entertain a crowd. i have spent a little bit of time

i don't think she's going to go out there and attack donald trump. but you know, no one else really embodies sort of the collapse of the party as well as nikki haley. this is someone who at one time, you remember, michael, she was what the party was supposed to be. she went out and said donald trump was everything she taught her children not to be. and she went from that to saying that she wants to run to carry on the trump legacy. it's so sad. she's already broken. trump breaks candidates. she's already broken before she gets in the race. >> that seems to be the narrative for a lot of these guys, david. when you even look at someone like florida governor ron desantis. the other day, we saw all these headlines that said desantis snapped back or hit back at trump after he went after desantis' covid response. but did he really? i think he's just ducking and covering at this point. that wasn't a clap back from desantis. the was more like, okay, pat on the wrist. >> right, but it gets outsized coverage because so many people cowered. he basically destroy

and that is not good for donald trump. >> right, i agree with that. i think he is a little boxed in because he wrote a book about it. you could say, like, i don't remember, it was a long time ago, but when you've written a book in which she recounted one of the key conversations, you've got a little less wiggle room in terms of that. we wrote this greenpeace about what -- is doing. tell me a bit about your poured-ing and and i'll ask how this plays into. it the thing that looms over the year 2023 and all of republican politics and all of presidential politics is, is donald trump going to get indicted, and if so what does that mean? what are big republican donors doing to stop donald trump being the nominee? >> i wouldn't call them anti trump, but i would say the non trumping of the party. they are concerned about republicans winning. >> that's what they care about. they think he's gonna lose. >> that's what i'm saying. if he were the nominee they probably support and, regardless of what they say now, ultimately, if it's him and joe biden or whomever t

the niece of former president, donald trump. mary, i always say the needs of former president donald trump at the end, frankly, because the other stuff that you have done has been incredible. you do have some really telling inside a. let's start with nikki haley. interesting lee, nikki haley was the first republican to step into the line of fire by announcing her candidacy for the gop nomination. she says that there needs to be a new generation of leaders. she just cannot seem to differentiate herself from trump. is she just a sacrificial lamb at this point, until someone like, i don't know, rhonda santas officially stepped into the fray? >> yeah, katie, it is a little mystifying to understand what her run is about alas -- as is often the case, she's running for vice president. she needs to walk a very fine line, right? she cannot be too anti donald. she has to tow the gop line. i think we are going to see a campaign that is replete live, republican athens. we have already seen this in her opening bid. racism, homophobia, and th

he isn't donald trump, and that, you know, for the last two years, all donald trump has done is talk about donald trump and been, you know, a grievance, you know, speech of grievances in talking about 2020. donald trump doesn't want to move on. people in the republican party do. they say we like you, but we don't want you to run again. >> maybe you heard that the current head of the ntsb who, by the way, got on the board from donald trump and then was moved up sounds pretty upset about the politicalization of what's happening in east palestine, and donald trump obviously was there yesterday. while a lot of other folks are going to places like ohio, what do you make of his moves so far, which frankly aren't a lot of moves because he hasn't exactly been out there much? >> he hasn't. and his visit to ohio was really disruptive yesterday. a school had to close, things like that. that's not exactly how you bring good faith. you could have sent the water, the trump water that he bragged about. what's more important, i think donald trump went because he wanted to change the story. the news

male: i voted for donald trump, and i'm gonna vote for him again. so is my wife. male: if i was forced to go vote, i would probably put my support behind trump and the republican party. david: fields of corn greet us in ohio. it's a wealthy state with an economy the size of some countries. trump needs ohio. no republican has ever been elected president without it. at edison, we stumble on what we thought was a virus-testing line. david: we're from australian tv. what are you guys doing? male: food pantry. david: oh, food pantry, is it? even in the heart of america's food basket, the local baptist church feeds between 2 and 3,000 people a month. female: we love jesus, so we just wanna do what needs to be done. female: amen. amen. david: trump's christian support is slipping, but not here. david: this trump country? female: it is. as you're driving around you're probably seeing lots of trump signs. there are some who aren't crazy about our p-o-t-u-s, but this gal loves donald trump. david: and you, ma'am? female: yes, sir. all the way. both: trump all

and that is a lie from donald trump. one of donald trump's lawyers said today, quote, this is not the way that a grand jury is supposed to operate. that too is a lie in georgia, because according to georgia law, which very clearly says that everything that emily kohrs has done and said is perfectly legal. and judge mcburney, in last month's hearing about the grand jury, said, by all appearances, the special purpose grand jury did its work by the book. the trump lawyers did not mention a single legal principle that they believe was violated by emily kohrs's interviews according to georgia law. not one. in washington, special prosecutor jack smith is pursuing mike pence's testimony even more quickly than expected. the new york times is reporting that special counsel smith has already filed a motion in court to compel mike pence's testimony in anticipation of mike pence's objections to testify the times reports a request amounting to a preventive motion to compel mr. tensed as the monee came before the former vice president

it was their view of donald trump. that is proof of how donald trump is toxtoxifying the republican party. >> republicans are not walking away from donald trump because of january 6th, because of covid, because of helsinki, any of that. it is because he lost. for the first time, he is being blamed for the defeats in november, which should have been a very good republican cycle and turned out not to be. but, of course -- >> stunning. >> yeah, stunningly so. of course, you can't beat something with nothing. there's going to have to be another republican who does step to the forefront, who is able to beat trump. most eyes on governor desantis, unproven national commodity. we'll see about that in the months ahead. and we know republicans are going to jump in. nikki haley next week will be the first. the bigger the field is a sense that it'll be better for trump. it is telling that some of the interest, powerful voices in the republican party want nothing to do with him. >> interesting. >> i think the operative word i heard

donald trump. legally. special grand jury was convened to investigate efforts by donald trump and his allies to overturn his 2020 election loss in georgia. and this week, a judge ordered the release of part of that special grand jury's report. according to the report, the grand jury found evidence of possible perjury by at least one witness. but no evidence, of trump's crimes of widespread voter brought. the report indicated that the grand jury did make recommendations on indictment, but no identifying information was released publicly. so we don't know who they thought might have been dishonest. we don't know who they are recommending for indictment. still, a new new york times op-ed, written by three experts on the fulton county investigation, on the january six committee's investigation, and georgia state law, sees real danger for donald trump, and the country. writing quote, we need to prepare for a first in our 246 year history as a nation. the possible criminal prosecution of a former preside

financial crime relating to donald trump. it all comes back to financial crime relating to donald trump. that's all it is. that was his red line to mueller. you look into my finances, that's offlimits. it's all about the financial crime. and that's why i'm glad susanne and her colleagues continue to dig. hopefully we'll start seeing some level at trump and what he's been doing. >> by the way, pete's book is called "compromised." tomorrow on this program, mark pomerantz will be here. we've been talking about him. we've wondered a long time what he saw, what happened when he quit. he was the lead attorney in the manhattan d.a.'s office. he'll be our guest in the hour at 4:00. you went a want to miss that my thanks to susanne craig who makes sense of all of this, and harry litman who talks in the kind of tones that don't set me off. thank you very much, harry litman. pete strzok will be back in the next hour when we come back. >>> republicans practically tripped over themselves over the weekend to call out president joe biden fo

there is a subpoena out for donald trump this evening. lawyers representing leaders of the right-wing group known as the proud boys, who are currently on trial for seditious conspiracy for their role in the january 6th attack. they are demanding the ex presidents testimony as part of their defense. trump, of course, infamously delivered this message to the proud boys during the presidential debate with joe biden. >> are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence and a number of the cities that we saw in kenosha and as we have seen in portland? >> give me a. name >> white supremacists. >> who? proud boys? stand back and stand by. >> now, these are not the circumstances under which many people would have predicted trump would be subpoenaed, because, quite honestly, the ex president is embroiled in so many various investigations. there's also the special grand jury investigation into trump's election interference in georgia following his 2020 loss

., two men had continued to close in on donald trump. he has read and reviewed the book the just heard about, rachel maddow's interview with warren prosecutor mom mike pomerantz, that's next. are positive for acetylcholine receptor antibodies, it may feel like the world is moving without you. but the picture is changing, with vyvgart. in a clinical trial, participants achieved improved daily abilities with vyvgart added to their current treatment. and vyvgart helped clinical trial participants achieve reduced muscle weakness. vyvgart may increase the risk of infection. in a clinical study, the most common infections were urinary tract and respiratory tract infections. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or if you have symptoms of an infection. vyvgart can cause allergic reactions. the most common side effects include respiratory tract infection, headache, and urinary tract infection. picture your life in motion with vyvgart. a treatment designed using a fragment of an antibody. ask your neurologist if vyvgart could be ri

donald trump has been raising less money online. now he's finding while he used to dupg on everyone on twitter, get the media overexcited about his tweets, there's a confident liberal network emerging online. i'm going to explain the image on your screen. it's all related. biden allies are basically taking over what was an attempted right wing attack, kind of a crude attack on biden, a show of disrespect, and they've reclaimed it with this image and others to taught moments when they say biden is winning, where he's on top. it's an internet meme and a joking super hero take on biden, which also mocks the childest fish of so much maga content. this is the meme proclaiming, for example, biden's tuesday theme. dark brandon there with the imagery saying it's time to finish the job. boss mode, the cigar, kind of a confident demeanor. there's a wrestler version tackling gop malarkey. other biden fans posting the theme with actual wings emerging from the president's back. this is not all 100% serious but it is part of today's communication

clearly, donald trump is a lot weaker. he's got all of these legal problems, you can even see in some ways these events now, it's kind of off of his game. he doesn't quite have it the same way. but still, for the gop, it's like dragging around a half ton anchor on your motorboat. it's not that you are going to go down to the bottom of the river, and go down with the anchor, but you can't really go anywhere else either. that is really kind of where it is, which is why i think it is possible, i'm not saying likely, but it's possible that we are going to have this primary campaign, donald trump is going to end up polling 30% in each of the primaries, which is pretty similar to what he did in 2016. a lot of republicans are just going to say, well, there's kind of nothing else that we can do. we're going to do this again. even though the majority kind of would just assume that, like mckay kaufman said, maybe he would just get bored and walk away. >> or even, really, they talk about him, he's talked explicitly. peter meijer, for

donald trump for his part wished her good luck. at this moment in time it looks like she will still need it. nicole: what are her real chances? you say the u.s. is always open for surprises, but realistically, does she have a shot? michaela: she is the second person to declare. she is the first person except for donald trump. we are still waiting to hear from ron desantis, who everyone expects to declare. he is the governor of florida. also former vice president of donald trump, mike pence, is expected to enter the race. two others are also a potential. so it is really very early days. the more people join the primaries, the more likely mathematically it becomes for donald trump to pull-through and become the wildcard. this is the party that is in an inner turmoil, fighting itself over donald trump. one thing that is for sure is that trumpism will survive into this next election campaign. here, the question is whether nikki haley, who entered the race, making a big thing about her immigrant legacy, her parents came from india, and

trump is by hitting donald trump back hard. to michael's point, but i think that is because the reason he has been walking in the footsteps of donald trump is because he has been trying to get the donald trump base. and that is a base that has responded to fear and it is a base that has responded, sadly, to that division. to driving division. and that is something that he is trying to hold on to. he is trying to figure out how he can, how does he hit trump when he is saying vote for me because i'm the better trump? and so, i think that is what is most troubling and oddly and disturbingly fascinating about the whole thing. i do want to go back to george santos for one moment, though. because the only thing i want to say is, donald trump has george santos -- george santos to. he is the guy, 30,000 lies of misrepresentation as president. he is the guy who has been accused of passing of hush money during a campaign, a campaign finance violations, he is the one who is inaugural -- he is the one who is still facing investigation -- h