hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> unforgettable images of that they show pence in his family ending up in a loading dock under the capitol complex. during the committee hearing we heard testimony about the danger to pants and the president's response. >> the vice president made several calls to check on the safety of others. it was his own life that was in great danger. mr. jacob, did donald trump ever called the vice president to check on his safety? >> he did not. >> mr. jacob, how did vice president pence and mrs. pence react to that? >> with frustration. >> i remember pat saying to him something to the effect of the rioters got to the capitol and we need to go see the president. now i remember pat say something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something. more than they are literally calling for the vice president to be effing hung. and mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard it, pat, he thinks mike deserves it. he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. >> the select c

the news crossing tonight, mike subpoena -- mike pence subpoenaed for the very first time. this news breaking by abc news. nbc matching it. mike pence subpoenaed by special counsel. thank you, emily. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >>> absolutely. a big breaking news night. we have more for you. we'll be right back. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder p

at mike pence's residence. and, effectively, said leave mike pence alone. he is a good man. now, anytime the former president decides to play nice with someone he has spent almost a career of making fun of, otherwise chastising or diminishing, i think it's worth trying to understand why. and i wonder, if at all, you think that can be a preemptive move to potentially curry favor with mike pence, ahead of what could be fairly damaging testimony that mike pence might make to a grand jury. i know that's a lot of ifs, i know that's a lot of supposition. i just wonder, if you think that there's any chance in the scenario that mike pence is in treated by any of the words of donald trump? >> okay, those were three great questions built in there, alex. i'll try to take them quickly. let's go backwards, mike pence, i don't think is going to be influenced by anything donald trump says at this point, i mean i reported on what pence's day is like at the capitol on january six, huddling with his wife, his daughter her husban

we don't know what mike pence might say. we don't know what might have been said to mike pence by donald trump to try to lure him into this conspiracy to interfere and whether that at some point crosses the line into this notion that if we have to, i guess if it was a mob case we'd say go to the mattresses. here it is engaging the militias. and that is the problem. prosecutors just don't know what mike pence might say. >> do we assume that they've already presented to a grand jury what mark short believes when he told pence the secret service agent that pence's life will be in danger 24 hours later. >> i think it is a certainty that they would have asked him those questions. we don't know which of the secret service witnesses, potential witnesses might have testified. it is not clear whether their witnesses or considered something else in this investigation. there are a lot of people that you could go to and ask the question what do you think mike pence thought but as a prosecutor, the question i want to ask is, mike pence,

or trying to communicate with mike pence. so, is it possible that the grand jury and the special prosecutor could find criminal intent and criminal conduct in what donald trump is doing at that microphone after the phone call? >> yes, lawrence. i don't think it would just be that speech. i think it would be in conjunction with what trump said to pence earlier in private conversations. and that has always been the kind of missing element. we've obviously seen that videotape before, as did millions of americans. but we don't know what trump said privately to pence. and that was really one of the rare failures of the january 6th committee, which did such a brilliant job amassing all sorts of evidence, but they never got pence's story. pence was willing to let his aides go and testify before the january 6th committee, but he was too timid, too scared to show up and tell the american people what happened. and so for that reason, to my mind, it's always been a question of when and not if the subpoena that we just got issue issued t

>> if i'm advising mike pence or if i am mike pence, i am not going to want to bring this up as a point of difference between me and donald trump. because you don't want to remind people that fbi aides were in your home looking through documents. that is not something you want to do. so i think that, for him, it is nullified, and i think the best that he can hope for is that the other folks that are going to be on the stage don't attack him or, more importantly, don't tie him and donald trump together in a possible debate stage about this issue. because that is something that is an opportunity for all of these other folks who have been thinking about, it that they've been talking to their aides who could possibly be running in the gop primary. they can say, i handle classified documents correctly, nikki haley, mike pompeo, people who work in the administration. i'm going to fix that issue. americans don't have to hear about this over and over again from your leaders. and that is something that they are going to be able to do. mike pence will not be able to do that in a way that makes se

all of this will hang over mike pence. and in some ways this is the argument i think that other goppers who might want to run for president will make. this is sort of the bad news bears in terms of donald trump and mike pence and everybody who was involved with that in and around the donald trump presidency. maybe there's time for some new blood. >> he's moving quickly, jack smith. >> the special counsel is moving quickly and frankly he has to because we're heading into -- it's early in 2023, but we are heading into an election. and that's going to make -- making calculations for the special counsel much, much harder. i think the stakes as david points out have never been hire. for history, this investigation into january 6th is absolutely paramount. i don't think we should lose sight of that as we coffer it in political terms. >> much more on the breaking news right after this. inspired by, created for and powered by you. ♪ if we use kevin's college fund, we can afford this house. the house whisperer! this house says us

and mike pence is a critical component of that because it was trying to persuade mike pence publicly, privately, on twitter, and at the rally to thwart the counting of the votes, to abuse his power. and so i think all of those questions that carol just said go to donald trump's knowledge of fraud and intent to persuade mike pence to abuse his power. and so if that can be proven, you need not even prove if donald trump incited the insurrection. i think the committee did something really interesting with regard to that theory, which it's not so much the speech at the ellipse and then making the tweet that says mike pence didn't have the courage to do what was necessary and we demand answers, which threw fuel on the fire and renewed vigor of the protesters and causing them to start chanting, hang my pence. so i think the things donald trump said to mike pence that could reveal whether he knew he actually lost the election and that what he was doing was an improper effort to retain office, and there were conversations that aides could provide some detail on but also conversations where he

and that certainly includes mike pence. i think what you're going to see is he's going to go into that grand jury and he's going to be there for a long time. >> and you know, what do you expect? knowing him and having worked for him, he wants to run for president. he still wants the support of the republican base, much of which is still very tied to donald trump. but he also is somebody who donald trump completely turned on, on january 6th. and we don't know if it was before or just on january 6th. he literally was posting threatening tweets about mike pence that cassidy hutchinson and others testified put mike pence in even more danger because there was an armed mob already busting into the capitol, and he still wouldn't stop. is mike pence the type of person who will say, you know what, my loyalty is gone, i'm going to tell the whole truth and not risk anything for this man anymore? >> you know, that's a tough question because that is the mystery of mike pence. you know, i do think that he loves his country. i will say th

i think there was a plot to get mike pence out of the capitol so this couldn't go forward. >> mike pence thought that also. that's why he refused. there is a car waiting right here for you. no thanks. >> he's the key guy. what a remarkable sight it would be if it ever came to a criminal case and a former vice president was put in a courtroom to testify against his running mate? the president of the united states? could you imagine something like that? i do want the present one reverse view of this. it's not impossible that people in trump world think that mike pence's testimony could help donald trump if mike pence were to testify, yeah, trump asked me to do all these awful things. but during the whole time donald trump really believed the election was stolen. as ridiculous as that concept is. trump could argue, look, i had no corrupt intent. and corrupt intent could be a key part of the charges against him. >> it could. but he's involved in too many things. he was involved in the fake electors. he put john eastman in touch with rowan mcdaniels to get her to put together these fake elect

mike pence is a critical component of that. it was trying to persuade mike pence, publicly, privately, on twitter and at the rally to thwart the counting of the votes. to abuse his power, i think all of those questions that carole just said go to donald trump's knowledge of fraud, and intent to persuade mike pence to abuse his power. if that could be proven, you need not even prove that donald trump incited the insurrection. i think that's gonna stand or fall based on some of the facts that are already known. i think the committee did something really interesting with regard to that theory. which is not so much the speed -- of the ellipse. but the failure to do anything for three hours. and making the tweet that says, mike pence didn't have the courage to do what was necessary. we demand answers. which fuels on the fire, and renewed the vigor of the protesters and causing them to start shopping, hang mike pence. the things that donald trump said to mike pence, that could reveal whether he knew he actually lost the election. and

former vice president mike pence has been suspended. the special counsel jack smith calling it as part of his criminal investigation into trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. of course, pence was there that they and all the days before and after and on that day, the mob threatened to hang him, remember that? he was at the heart of trump's efforts to overturn the election. >> i hope that our great vice president, our great vice president comes through for us. he's a great guy, of course, if he does not come through, i won't like him quite as much. >> of course, pence did not come through, not before the insurrection after he was rushed to safety because an angry mob of trump supporters are trying to hunt them down and threatened to explicitly hang him. >> president trump said, i have the right to overturn the election. president trump is wrong. i had no right to overturn the election. the presidency belongs to the american people and the american people alone. frankly, there is no idea more un-american that the notion of any on

what would you ask mike pence in the grand jury under oath? >> i certainly concur with his analysis, by a part of what pence is trying to do, and he learned this, sadly, from donald trump, is delay. by as much time as he can. hope that the problem goes away before he is forced to testify. so he thinks that it is valuable just to string this along. look, he is probably among the most important witnesses. his conversations with the president, with people around the president, what they knew about losing the election, what they knew about the unconstitutionality of what they were demanding, that he due to somehow use that ministerial position in the joint session to decide that the loser is really the winner, all of that is going to be very important to the charging decisions of the justice department. i also share needles view that it is really tragic that it has taken this long, more than two years after the fact, to get to this point of the investigation. they should have subpoenaed him long before now as well as mark meadows to find out just

>>> mike pence faces a subpoena. we're back with andrew weissmann who is the former fbi general counsel, and maya wiley, a former civil prosecutor and leader of the leadership conference. andrew, your views on this subpoena in the probe? >> sure. i was taking some notes here. three quick points. one, mike pence could have lots of information, both good and bad, for trump and the government. not just on the effort to pressure him, the vice president, to throw the election. but also in a whole range of other things. he could have information about the pressure on the department of justice, on the state electors, even mar-a-lago on the issue of how they were trained in terms of what they could keep and couldn't keep. so there's really a huge amount of information that he could have, but most critically, it is about the pressure on him, and what the direct conversations he had with the president. and the thing i'm going to be most interested in, we're all going to really want to know but may not know for quite some time,

it some of them were chanting hang mike pence. of course the former vice president after that breaking with his former boss to whom he had been incredibly loyal in the past. this is just another chapter of this but again the special counsel investigation is something that is ongoing. we have no idea how much it will take, this is just a new chapter in how a current candidate for 24 is now dealing with another likely candidate for 2024 as many people expect mike pence to make his bid official in the coming weeks and months, yasmin. >> i want to mention, we will get into more of this with barbara mcqueen as well talking to the legality issue with all of this. not surprising necessarily, this claim the trump team is trying to make of executive privilege. something that we expected to happen. i am just wondering monica and if you talked about this forgive me, as we are trying to sift through all of this stuff. do we know if there's been any communication between the former vice president and his former boss because of now, trump's leg

we see it now with mike pence. so what s.e. was just saying, let's play a bit about what pence has actually said as he sort of started more and more to come after trump on this issue. here he is. >> but frankly, when i saw those images and when i read a tweet that president trump issued saying that i lacked courage in that moment, it angered me greatly. but to be honest with you, i didn't have time for it. the president had decided in that moment to be a part of the problem. i decided and was determined to be part of the solution. >> there's more where that came from. i mean maybe it's just the delivery that's sort of hard. it angered me greatly. he doesn't emote, okay? but how is he going to handle this? >> well, i think that one interesting aspect of this is that mike pence clearly feels frustrated by the way that donald trump reacted on january 6th itself. there's a lot of questions about what pence was privy to prior to discussions about january 6th, the whole fake elector scheme. all those things he probably had some conta

it's unclear now whether mike pence will comply or fight this subpoena. cnn reported earlier that he was expected to claim at least some limits on providing details of his direct conversations with trump. special counsel jack smith has also been moving forward with his investigation into trump's handling of classified documents. listen to this. bloomberg is reporting tonight that one of the lawyers representing donald trump in the documents case, appearing before the grand jury last month as part of the special counsel's investigation. tonight, and this is where i meant to listen to this, abc news reporting that more classified materials were found last month, in donald trump's possession at mar-a-lago. quote, trump attorney james trusty turned over the folder with classification markings for federal investigators. and also informed agents that it had been electronically copied to a laptop of a current trump aide. that's where the source said. abc news has also learned that after the information was recovered, federal agents retrieved the laptop from the

a day after we learned jacques myths sent mike pence a subpoena. then, misinformation campaign in full swing at the former vice president network. just how dangerous are the lies, the expert that watches encodes fox news so you don't have to, is here. and from the wild week of politics from republicans, spend most of it fighting their own culture war. to the historic weekend ahead of us. our friday night cap is here to bring it all down as the 11th hour gets underway right now.

pence or they have mike pence's lawyers saying this is a tough one. if it comes out that there's a subpoena, it would make it easier for them. it could be a strategy. number three, "the new york times" is now reporting just moments ago, you and i have been in the newsroom figuring it out as we go, it is related to january 6th. number three, it suggests that special counsel smith really needs to get more information to decide whether to charge other people with a crime. so on a big news night, like this, i think of little dirk, the feds listening, the feds will be listening to mike pence. they will win this battle if he fights it. they will sit him down, put him underoath and they'll be listening to his answers when he's asked, did donald trump know about the violence? did he coordinate with the militias? did anyone in the white house say to you up until the 6th they they had kind of a plan to do this? you need the hard evidence. if he says yes to those questions, more people could be indicted. >> mike pence, now that we understand this is about januar

he brings up mike pence. mike pence also in the news for a strategy regarding that inquiry from the justice department for january 6. this is from "the hill," reporting that former vice president pence is planning to fight the subpoena and the drawn -- and setting up a drawn out legal fight of the justice department ramps up its probe. his resistance to the subpoena, with this consistent with his previous reluctance to testify. it could -- more immediately, it could throw a wrench in the special counsel's efforts to investigate trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. he is planning to roll out a novel legal argument, once that hinges as his role on january 6. as the presiding officer of the senate, his team is expected argued that under his former position as president, his work technically falls under the legislative branch. he is therefore protected under a clause. more of that if you want to read that. if you want to talk about mike pence as a candidate, you can do so in this first hour, this first

mike pence talks about that in the book. he talks about those key meetings at the oval office in early january where john eastman, the lawyer who came up with this idea of pence just throwing out the election results and, you know, essentially impeding the transfer of power, those key meetings are things that the justice department wants a lot more detail of. now, the -- you know, i think the first thing you're going to have is mike pence is going to comply with the subpoena. he's been negotiating for months. and they have at least a first pass where they talk about the things that are in the book already. and then the justice department can look and say, well, we want more than that. and you've already kind of opened the door, and that's where donald trump and his legal team have the opportunity to come in and fight -- and i think certainly the justice department and pence's team believe that donald trump will do that eventually and take it all the way to the supreme court. >> so put this into context, elliott. you have thi

look, mike pence has hired an executive privilege hawk, as one of his attorneys. so i actually do think that that will be asserted at some, point whether in the trump team, and i think trump will comply and go along with that. because he is also touted executive privilege in the past. and he has been very strong on that, saying that there is the protection of the oval office. and you really believes in it in terms of the presidency. i can see in the scenario, where they will try and slow walk this again. let's be honest, pence has been stalling to tell the truth, and to really talk about this for over two years now. that's how long this has been, and if they continue to solve this process, i believe that they will all go in on this. >> let me ask you one sort of macro question here. which is january six as an issue, we are now over two years away from it, it's still lingers obviously for a lot of us. but the republican election seems to have moved on, shown that they don't actually care all that much about what happened on that day. do you view this investigation

mike pence is trying to make that apply to him. jack smith is basically rushing to court to get into this argument as soon as possible. >> and lawrence, actually, i will just take a step back from the executive privilege or speech and debate clause and invite mike pence to follow the do the right thing clause, or the i love my country clause. because when glenn kirschner and i will prosecutors, we sat down with many witnesses who had had their lives threatened, witnesses afraid to testify, witnesses who had to go and still are in hiding because of what they saw in what they said. and they were not motivated, ultimately, by money. they were not motivated by fame. they were just motivated, at the end of the day, to tell the truth. and how liberating it felt to tell the truth -- and so, when mike pence writes a book called so help me god, which is what you say at the end of an oath, he should think about that oath. and think, does he want to help his country because he was a witness to a crime? and does he want to join thousands of am

>> i wouldn't think a special counsel is needed for mike pence. i didn't think it was needed for president biden. i think they're doing this for optics, meaning, they want to make sure the public believes they can have confidence in the integrity of these investigations. but mike pence's case seems so much a matter of inadvertence that i don't think there is really a criminal law issue that requires a special counsel to inquire. i think the doj can handle it. >> separately, mike pence has been subpoenaed by the special counsel investigating trump's role in the capitol insurrection. he wants documents and testimony from the former vice president. what would the options be for pence? just simply comply or might he also exert an executive privilege? >> so the best course for him is to comply and continue the mike pence i'm a hero, i resisted on january 6th leaving the capitol and i did what the constitution requires of me and now i'm doing what the constitution requires of me again and i'm testifying. but if former president trump asserts executive p

mike pence can try to assert executive privilege. donald trump can try to assert executive privilege. those arguments will lose. every judge will rule that first of all, executive privilege presently is for joe biden. the president to invoke our way, if we all have the sense that he will not invoke executive privilege to prevent mike pence from testifying about the democracy crimes of donald trump before the grand jury, ain't happening. the other thing, this issue was litigated during the watergate days in the nixon case, when there was a federal grand jury looking for, among other things the crimes of a foreign president, the executive privilege will yield. the only question is, will mike pence be able to succeed in delaying his ultimate day of reckoning before the grand jury? >> there is precedent there. charles, what critical information with the special counsel want to know for mike pence? >> the special counsel is going to be looking to find out exactly what donald trump may have communicated an indicated that he was aware that

pence has and only mike pence has that is relative to the heart of what happened on january 6th that is to say one on one conversations he had with donald trump that day and likely also in the days proceeding. i think that this is important because if pence or trump were to challenge the subpoena say on grounds of executive privilege, the justice department would have to show that there was a demonstrated need to get it from him, that they couldn't have gotten this information any other way. and i think that they are going to be able to do that based on everything that we've heard, that he is the only person who can answer these questions, and they need the answers to these questions in the course of this investigation. >> laura, first it's good to have you here on set. pence has put a lot on paper, right? we said that. he's put a lot on the public record generally, so what are the unanswered questions that most likely the special counsel will want to know the answers to? >> some of those conversations as tali just laid out are conversations that only pence has the answers to, right?

pence and i'm interested in that subpoena, mike pence has been walking the line between being ida cry, this i did not participate in this, but i am also going to compete for the 2024 poll republican nomination, which he had zero chance. his very mild -- was still enough to threaten his own life. >> you mentioned something really interesting that we will dive deeper into everybody watching, we will bring lucy and fry back to dive deeper into the 2024 race, and what that means if pence decides to run. really quick, i have a very quick question for you, lucy. pivoting gop continuing to be in disarray, we are seeing battle over social security and medicare becoming a problem, what are biden and the democrats doing right here? >> what are they doing right? i think if anybody is watching the state of the union this week, it is a master class in how to pin your opponents up against a wall. joe biden really was putting the old joe biden on display, and calling them out, forcing them on to record about issues like social security and medicare. that was amazing. anyone who suggests that tuesday

mike pence hopes he can do it again. merrick garland seems to have taken into consideration the political nature of the race in 2024 because joe biden is running with the special counsel. you have donald trump. is this going to be a factor, the clock and the politics of this? >> the clock and the politics are always a factor. the question is the degree to which they have a direct impact on what merry gak lard does. and what ultimately donald trump or mike pence is able to get away with. they are going try to run the clock out and trump was going to play the victim when the indictments come down on him. and the question then royals up does that prevent him from running my thinking is no, he will still pursue that all the while claiming to be a victim of the man. you're seeing a little bit of that from mike pence now. sort of taking this holier position that because of my role president of the senate, i am somehow can avoid the responsibility of reporting on the crime that i saw or testifying to the crime that i saw. that

it's mike pence. that is unforgivable for so many republican voters. >> my god. >> as jonathan just said, those trump supporters are never going to support mike pence. if you're trying to have it both ways, you're going to lose. there's a large chunk of the electorate, maybe 45-50% of the electorate that don't want donald trump to be their nominee. that's what mike pence and others should go after. vaughn just talked about georgia. i can't think of a better example of brad raffensperger and the governor down there, brian kemp, both of them crossed donald trump in a hard, tough way, both of them did. we heard reports they were done. brad raffensperger is never going to win. the trumpers are going to overwhelm him. they crushed donald trump. they crushed donald trump in the deep south in a really conservative state for republicans. that's the pathway forward. you do it the way brian kemp did it, the way brad raffensperger did. the election wasn't stolen. come on, y'all. just stop. we want to win future

you know, mike pence says, this is unprecedented. no vice president has ever been subpoenaed to testify against the president he served with. well, that is because the situation has never occurred in the history of the united states. so, of course it is unprecedented. but, there is really no reason to think that mike pence is not having an obligation like everyone else to appear before a grand jury, and a grand jury is entitled to every man's evidence, every persons evidence. and you can't use privileges designed to protect one branch of government as a shield to protect yourself. you know, he has asserted executive privilege, and now when it suits him, he's now asserting speech or debate clause, which is a legislative privilege when it suits him. i think these privileges safeguard some aspects of his communications. but it's not gonna safeguard all of it. he's gonna need to show up. >> you're talking about the speech or debate clause, which technically would protect some of the experiences and commentary and conversations while he w

a day after we learned jack smith sent mike pence a subpoena. then, misinformation campaign in full swing at the former vice president network. just how dangerous are the lies, the expert that watches and decodes fox news so you don't have to, is here. and from the wild week of politics from republicans, spend most of it fighting their own culture war. to the historic weekend ahead of us. our friday night cap is here to bring it all down as the 11th hour gets underway right now. good evening, once again. i'm stephanie ruhle. new signs tonight of a legal battle brewing for the special counsel subpoena to former vp mike pence. cbs news reporting that trump's legal team is gearing up to track -- on the grounds of executive privilege. we learned yesterday that the jack smith subpoenaed the former vp that wants him to testify under oath that his investigation into trump's role in january 6th. jack smith is also overseeing the investigation into donald trump's handling of classified documents. tonight, abc news reports his legal team gave federal agen

vice president, mike pence was subpoenaed by the special counsel investigating donald trump. what we learned from his testimony. and, russia's new offensive appears to be getting underway in zaporizhzhia's energy infrastructure among the targets. it is ten a.m. across turkey and syria with the death toll from monday's earthquake has now risen to more than 21,000. the hopes are fading that rescuers can find any more survivors. this is the scene in southern turkey, emergency crews blow their whistles when they hear noises under debris that call for silence. but the destruction is immense, an entire neighborhood reduced to rubble under the thousands of families left homeless. many are sleeping in their cars or on the streets in freezing temperatures, even those who still have homes are afraid to go inside for fear the buildings might collapse. there is a miracle, there you can hear the shelton celebrations as rescue crews pull a mother and their six-year-old daughter from the wreckage. meanwhile, turkey's foreign minister says the country has received offers of assistance from 9

what's the point of someone like mike pence even running at this point? >> i think there's an unwritten law somewhere if you've been vice president you're required to run for president. i don't get it. there's a lack of self-awareness there. i don't think he has a warm, comfortable home anywhere in the republican party or in the democratic party. i honestly think he's a guy who thinks he's going to be politically viable, and i don't see how it's going to happen. i guess things surprise you. i said at this point, you know, in 2015 that donald trump could never be president, so i need to be careful what i say, but i actually don't think -- pence is doing the same thing that haley's doing. he's trying to have it all ways. he's trying to be -- not say what he should say about what trump tried to get him to do around january 6th, but he's also trying to say i did the right thing and i'm not trump. >> i think it's pretty much guaranteed you can't have it beth ways. thank you always for your time, claire. it's great to see you. >> you bet. happy valentine's day.

the poisoning of mike pence by donald trump has offered mike pence countless humiliations, and so mike pence, who left his capacity for embarrassment somewhere in 2015 will now take on the embarrassment of being the only vice president in history who does not know that he was never a united states senator. leading off our discussion tonight is professor laurence tribe, who has talked constitutional law at harvard law school for for five decades. thank you very much for joining us professor tribe. i want to just give you the open mic here to respond to mike pence's theory of why he will never have to testify to a grand jury. >> you are right lawrence, it's a pretty pathetic political ploy really designed to curry favor with president trump's base by making excuses for president trump and refusing to testify under oath as he would have to and probably is going to have to about the way trump tried to force pence into basically stealing the presidency that he had lost for the former president. and incidentally, getting power for himself. and of course, part of the reason for the ploy is th

mike pence's ears must be burning because the talk today is all about him. there's the developing fbi search at his indiana home which we're going to get into in a moment, and now his official involvement in jack smith's special counsel investigation into president trump and the insurrection. smith has subpoenaed pence's testimony which former federal prosecutors say could signal that smith is close to coming to a decision about whether to indict the former president. after all, there is arguably no more a significant witness into donald trump's actions and intentions surrounding the intention to overturn the election than his former vice president, the man he pressured to refuse to certify the election on january 6th. joining me now is nbc news senior legal correspondent, julia ainsley, and capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. laura, why a subpoena, why not a voluntary interview? >> jack smith doesn't believe he's going to get what he needed on a voluntary basis. we understand from our reporting there were some negotiations over a period of weeks on th

then mike pence and joe biden. and i talked to some former officials in the last few days from washington. they agreed. they don't think that mike pence or joe biden are in any kind of serious, legal jeopardy. it is back to intent and showing that, you know, again, donald trump knew he was acting fraudulently when he refused to hand over the documents. >> all right. and, yeah, never, and the amount of the -- content we have to discuss on the. thank you, barbara mcquade, and david rohde. coming up, the antiabortion gambit, that could upend when abortion access remains in post roe america. -- which states trying to protect reproductive rights. plus, a piece of world war ii history, and an important lesson about the present day. and right after the break, we go live in turkey. the latest on rescue efforts. which are still ongoing, following monday's devastating earthquake. earthquake for instant relief that lasts up to 12 hours. vicks sinex targets congestion at the source, relieving nasal congestion and sinus pressur

we did not see anything like that for mike pence. it's interesting to see how they handle this. >> the fact that he is called trump's actions reckless, but not criminal. i wonder if you think that is a line he would reiterate, should he choose to testify to a grand jury? >> that is why they are going for their testimony, and when pence made those comments in last december, when he was reckless, not criminal, that is the sort of political conclusion you might draw. it's not up to mike pence to decide whether the former presidents actions were criminal. so, he is a fact witness, and it's as if he observed bank robbery. prosecutors want to put him in the grand jury what to say, what's involved, what's happened. here, where pence got those very likely is there was an effort to recruit him for conspiracy, to interfere with the government. prosecutors are entitled to get all of the details, and then prosecutors, and a jury, can draw the conclusion about whether anything criminal happened. >> i don't think you have to be clairvoyant to know

so i think it likely will apply to mike pence. the second part is, will his testimony relate to his legislative duties? we just heard mike pence say everything i was doing that day was as president of the senate. to the counterpart, if he was involved in conversations about crimes with donald trump that's not covered. >> could this go up to the supreme court? >> absolutely. it will start at the district court, which is the trial court level. whoever loses there can appeal to the court of appeals. whoever loses there will take it to the supreme court. and it's up to the supreme court. but this kind of case is tailor made for them. >> what does that to for the crime line of the criminal investigation for the former president? >> timing is so important. we heard about mike pence's political consideration. but from doj's perspective, there is no way, even if this case is super expedited, that it gets through all those layers we just talked about in less than four months, and probably more than that. is doj willing and able to wait fou

jack smith has subpoenaed former vice president mike pence. to see what evidence he has of trump's involvement with the insurrection and today, we are hearing the former presidents legal team will be weighing in. i want to bring an embassy legal analyst paul butler, he joins me now, a professor at georgetown school of law and a former federal prosecutor. all, right paul make your plan for the people. show it be leaning anything from the subpoena or is jack smith just you know doing his job? >> both. this is what prosecutors do when they are seriously considering indicting somebody simone. it's a really big deal to haul the former vice president and to a grand jury. that is in the criminal investigation, jack smith is an experienced public corruption prosecutor. he would only do, this an extremely compelling reason. what i think is going, on prosecutors want to lock in mike pence's testimony and the case of charges that are brought against donald trump. jack smith also wants to know, what went down in those one-on-one conversations between trum

he wants mike pence to testify under oath. multiple sources say that after months of negotiating with mike pence's attorneys, smith issued the subpoena. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquaid spoke with msnbc about the matter. >> i think the things that donald trump said to mike pence that could reveal whether he knew he lost the election and what he was doing was an improper effort to retain office. jobina: mike pence faced pressure from donald trump and's allies to overturn the 2020 election results. a mob of trump supporters stormed the capitol building after mike pence made it clear he would certify the election tally for joe biden. it is unclear if he will comply with the simply an -- with the subpoena. kumasi: ok, thank you. two resource centers are opening an alameda county today. people are still recovering from the winter storms that caused so much damage, and homeowners, renters and business owners came to visit the disaster recovery centers to get help navigating resources. they will be in oakland, in dublin off of gl

justice department retrieved classified material from mike pence. paula reed has the latest on the search of pence's home as well as the new subpoena he is facing. >> reporter: fbi agents arrived at the indiana home of former vice president mike pence friday to search for classified documents. in a statement released after the search, pence's team revealed investigators removed one document with classified markings and six additional pages without such markings that were not discovered in the initial review by the vice president's counsel. >> those classified documents should not have been in my personal residence. mistakes were made. i take full responsibility. >> reporter: the justice department is reviewing how it ended up there. pence concepsenting to allow th fbi in his home after they found classified documents in the residence last month. >> there would be no reason to have classified documents. >> reporter: a member of his legal team was present as agents scoured the home while pepsnce s on the west coast after the arrival of two grandchildr

the january 6th special counsel subpoenas mike pence. what he might learn -- or what the special counsel might learn from his testimony, whether executive privilege applies. >>> and later, congressman george santos, another past criminal charge now surfacing. why it was made and what happened after police showed up to his door. tide pods child-guard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer.. to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging. even if you like a house, lowball the first offer. the house whisperer! this house says use the realtor.com app to see three different timates. so, don't take advice from people who don't know what they're talng about. realtor.com to each their home. shingles. some describe it as an intense burning sensation or an unbearable itch. this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. it could make your workday feel impossible. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist

and so, mike pence did a search of his home. he, of course, when he left the vice presidency, had a period of time where he had goods that were in storage and then several months after leaving office, he and his wife purchased that home in carmel, indiana, and things were sent there. they did a search, he said, on his own. what he discovered some materials placed them in a safe, and then he alerted counsel that had the ability to contact authorities. the fbi came to his home, retrieved those materials, and then separately his lawyers delivered to the national archives four boxes of materials that could be government records that they believe to be copies of things that may or may not be of interest to the national archives, but they wanted to provide that content back to the national archives for them to review it and see if there was anything else. subsequently the former vice president had been -- we spoke about this publicly and he said it was his responsibility, that it was not appropriate for him to have anything classified

pence also faced enormous pressure from the ex president himself. >> and i hope mike pence comes through for us. i have to tell. you may [applause] i hope that our great vice president, our great vice president comes through for us. he is a great guy. of course, if he doesn't come through, i won't like him quite as much. [laughter] no, mike is a great guy. >> pence did try to get to yes, to come through for the president, so to speak. but ultimately was unable to go with the scheme, telling's trump on january 5th, the name for it, all that he liked the authority to throw the electorates. correct, by the way. so trump moved on to plan b. he whipped his mob of aren't supported supporters into a frenzy on general six. he called on mike pence from the podium of that rally, and then sent the mob down to the capital, and starting to go there, where they then stormed the building, chanting that they wanted to find the vice president so they could hang him. thankfully, pence was evacuated to safety, but according to his former legal counsel the ex president was not exactly concerned about it. >>

some experts opine that maybe this is cover for mike pence. that mike pence wants to give testimony about what happened leading up to the january 6th insurrection. and having to do so under oath before a grand jury gives him co. he is running for president. he needs trump's base if he's going to be successful running for president. mike pence was a public servant. he wants to be president of the united states. if you want to be president of the united states and you have information about someone who was committing a criminal act, someone who is trying to overthrow the legitimate votes of the people, he should want to give that testimony. he should have wanted to give it to the january 6th committee. and he should want to give it to the department of justice. >>> in washington, the u.s. house has passed a resolution that condemns china for the spy balloon that blew across the country last week. lawmakers call it a brazen violation of sovereignty. officials have gleaned information from the wreckage. one said it belonged to a fleet that had flo