1 00:00:10,17 --> 00:00:11,05 Because. 2 00:00:46,28 --> 00:00:46,56 If you. 3 00:01:00,82 --> 00:01:07,75 Could use. The naming and welcome to the local KNOW IT subject 4 00:01:07,76 --> 00:01:14,31 Murphy and I'll be your host of the next sixty minutes. And I would like to 5 00:01:14,32 --> 00:01:20,41 introduce my special guests today who has said it's 6 00:01:20,42 --> 00:01:24,88 a sense the arrived in town and you know I've been very friendly and I consider him 7 00:01:24,89 --> 00:01:29,16 a good friend of mine if I ever get in trouble you said to build upon it I don't 8 00:01:29,17 --> 00:01:35,43 believe the dropping of it. But leave me in the corral. OK the. 9 00:01:37,71 --> 00:01:43,83 This is. To introduce yourself Paul. Good head. 10 00:01:45,03 --> 00:01:51,06 Chief Paul chance to New York longtime friend to Dick Murphy right we get 11 00:01:51,07 --> 00:01:57,85 a lot of very well how long have you been in this position now. Five in five 12 00:01:57,86 --> 00:02:04,05 years and four months is it that on. Very very good Did I spell your name right 13 00:02:04,09 --> 00:02:11,06 there it is up there yes OK All right you're all set I thought it was time that I 14 00:02:11,07 --> 00:02:17,41 had the cheap on and I hear all kinds of good things about you. And here you've 15 00:02:17,42 --> 00:02:20,96 been here we just talked about it people we went on the air about five years let 16 00:02:20,97 --> 00:02:27,25 alone. Over five years and over five years right. Let me ask you this before we get 17 00:02:27,26 --> 00:02:33,73 into specifics what do you think is. Still students been very good to me 18 00:02:34,71 --> 00:02:41,66 the. Since they came here in April twenty. The town has rolled out the 19 00:02:41,67 --> 00:02:43,86 welcome mat for me it's it's 20 00:02:43,87 --> 00:02:48,21 a privilege to serve people here in the town the police department is an 21 00:02:48,22 --> 00:02:54,70 exceptional police department really yes and it's just been so 22 00:02:54,71 --> 00:03:00,73 refreshing It's invigorating to work you. Say. Well I had 23 00:03:00,74 --> 00:03:05,33 a little opening here that let me just use it quickly I will blow some small go at 24 00:03:05,34 --> 00:03:11,43 you know way. Welcome once again to local knows I am eagerly awaiting this yellow 25 00:03:11,44 --> 00:03:14,77 because I really think that you are the best thing that's happened at the stop the 26 00:03:14,78 --> 00:03:19,26 police department of my lifetime I was that did you write that I did I wrote all 27 00:03:19,27 --> 00:03:25,13 this money and I am certainly not a teenager. So you do 28 00:03:25,14 --> 00:03:32,00 a great job I think and it shows and I'm very happy with your addition to the. 29 00:03:33,09 --> 00:03:39,95 Town. Dick I mean that I appreciate that but the critic goes to the people I work 30 00:03:39,96 --> 00:03:44,59 with the police officers have labored very difficult and to very difficult times 31 00:03:45,45 --> 00:03:52,12 and. To come and lead them in to create together a great police department is 32 00:03:52,13 --> 00:03:58,69 a for loop still think you. Why would you say in tough times what what what are you 33 00:03:58,70 --> 00:04:03,08 referring to well the history you know you know where every one of the history here 34 00:04:03,19 --> 00:04:08,80 yeah you know I am very proud of my occupation I've been doing this for almost 35 00:04:08,81 --> 00:04:15,78 forty years and. I love when we do great policing and 36 00:04:15,79 --> 00:04:21,41 when I see policing the can be improved I'm driven to try to do to make the 37 00:04:21,42 --> 00:04:24,51 difference and when I came to Stoughton I wanted to make 38 00:04:24,52 --> 00:04:30,78 a difference OK and do it's happened I mean we have achieved we have success 39 00:04:31,48 --> 00:04:38,27 and people have. That question yeah and the internal 40 00:04:38,28 --> 00:04:44,57 standards the. For room accountability you know excellence are 41 00:04:44,99 --> 00:04:48,61 sky high in that the police the people in the police department 42 00:04:48,62 --> 00:04:55,07 a very proud of who we are and what we have accomplished I'll bet I don't hear any 43 00:04:55,26 --> 00:05:00,23 complaints about any of your people and the time that you've been there I really 44 00:05:00,24 --> 00:05:04,68 mean that well we and I used to have them all and you know we're in 45 00:05:04,69 --> 00:05:06,80 a unique position in policing we don't make 46 00:05:06,81 --> 00:05:12,97 a lot of friends when we encounter people that want to resist Stewart channel 47 00:05:12,98 --> 00:05:15,79 righteous but right now we have come 48 00:05:15,80 --> 00:05:21,93 a long way and there are complaints I mean we vigorously investigate wrongdoing OK 49 00:05:21,97 --> 00:05:25,99 we hold ourselves accountable and that's that's what I think the people are 50 00:05:26,00 --> 00:05:32,88 clamoring for today is accountability of their public officials very much so we 51 00:05:32,89 --> 00:05:35,90 do we hold ourselves accountable I made up 52 00:05:35,91 --> 00:05:38,92 a little out why I'm here let me just stick to what 53 00:05:38,93 --> 00:05:45,84 a little bit here. I have that very impressed by your job since you came to start 54 00:05:45,85 --> 00:05:50,09 and I've already said that but could you. Give us 55 00:05:50,19 --> 00:05:55,68 a little kind of want to you want the audience here to get 56 00:05:55,69 --> 00:05:59,78 a little bit of information about your background so could you give us 57 00:05:59,79 --> 00:06:01,09 a brief discussion to be 58 00:06:01,10 --> 00:06:06,79 a background before coming to Stowe. Sure you know maybe where you will how far 59 00:06:06,80 --> 00:06:11,49 back do you want to go as well where you were you were originally from and where we 60 00:06:11,50 --> 00:06:14,43 were living well that type of trying to put people to actually 61 00:06:14,44 --> 00:06:17,99 a family am not I want to have that and wait how a lot of them they've got 62 00:06:17,100 --> 00:06:19,14 a police officer live 63 00:06:19,15 --> 00:06:24,37 a little bad about him going to where you came here this is get to know your chief 64 00:06:24,53 --> 00:06:28,98 already OK I hope if I did discuss this before the people give me 65 00:06:28,99 --> 00:06:34,16 a little. Benefit of the doubt but. When I was 66 00:06:34,17 --> 00:06:37,66 a kid my two best friends with pride killed in a crash in 67 00:06:37,67 --> 00:06:42,35 a police officer notified me and my family because he thought I was one of the 68 00:06:42,36 --> 00:06:48,82 victims in the crash oh wow now up until that point I didn't 69 00:06:49,13 --> 00:06:56,03 have any interest in policing him and. What I saw when this police officer came to 70 00:06:56,04 --> 00:07:02,100 the house was this sense of. Nobility that 71 00:07:03,52 --> 00:07:10,33 out of the worst event in someone's life police officers can do something that's 72 00:07:10,37 --> 00:07:16,89 profoundly impactful to change them I saw control I saw dignity I 73 00:07:16,90 --> 00:07:18,84 saw we were teenager and I was 74 00:07:18,85 --> 00:07:23,38 a teenager and wow twelve thirty in the morning he came to tell me reading Paul 75 00:07:23,39 --> 00:07:30,27 would killed my friends my Boral really so I thought wow this. It gave me 76 00:07:30,28 --> 00:07:36,99 this sense like and authority figures are usually seen as malignant 77 00:07:37,08 --> 00:07:42,52 authority figures police officers and I saw something that was to me like 78 00:07:42,53 --> 00:07:49,50 a beacon in the darkness so. I could change my life. So I 79 00:07:49,51 --> 00:07:52,09 have always looked at my job as 80 00:07:52,10 --> 00:07:58,65 a police officer to be V F A people when there are bad things happening 81 00:07:58,93 --> 00:08:02,83 who is that the good thought and hero of the US I didn't Jamiel Callahan OK right 82 00:08:02,84 --> 00:08:07,44 to you are right because because they know you were friendly with them yes and he 83 00:08:07,45 --> 00:08:12,56 thought I was one of the victims in the car were so while half of it was to do an 84 00:08:12,57 --> 00:08:18,23 identification and then there was a confirmation so yeah it was 85 00:08:18,24 --> 00:08:23,07 a sad time in my life and everyone has sad moments and everyone experiences and 86 00:08:23,18 --> 00:08:28,19 experiences tragedy right but how we use that to move forward is. 87 00:08:29,65 --> 00:08:36,02 Beneficial I saw this when I became interested in policing that this is you know we 88 00:08:36,03 --> 00:08:42,24 can change communities we can change lives. You know and I dare 89 00:08:42,71 --> 00:08:49,66 well. You take it from hey OK Well thank you you know well. So 90 00:08:49,67 --> 00:08:56,29 to to kind of move forward so I took the police exam I I was appointed to native 91 00:08:56,30 --> 00:09:01,88 police and I worked with with the officers for six years and what was told to me 92 00:09:01,89 --> 00:09:08,07 was kind of interesting at the time Vietnam era vets field training officers right 93 00:09:09,04 --> 00:09:14,86 I would treat people the way I thought people should be treated the golden rule 94 00:09:14,93 --> 00:09:19,60 that's the way to be and at the time there was more of 95 00:09:19,61 --> 00:09:25,82 a sense of an authoritarian style policing where we would roll up and tell people 96 00:09:25,83 --> 00:09:27,90 to get out of here if I come back we're going to get 97 00:09:27,91 --> 00:09:34,71 a Russ I right and. I didn't like that style of now policing I never 98 00:09:34,72 --> 00:09:36,82 did and I'll never will but there's 99 00:09:36,83 --> 00:09:43,63 a purpose sometimes yes so why. Bottom line is I was told I wasn't going to succeed 100 00:09:43,64 --> 00:09:49,40 in this business because I'm too nice to people. Reso I dismissed it 101 00:09:50,06 --> 00:09:53,81 and was interesting is that the person 102 00:09:53,82 --> 00:10:00,31 a told me this had the highest rates of complaints he 103 00:10:00,32 --> 00:10:02,36 also was in a shooting of 104 00:10:02,37 --> 00:10:08,58 a guy that. Didn't have to be. You didn't have to come down to that there was some 105 00:10:08,81 --> 00:10:14,68 issues of. Bad blood it's in your hometown now and it's making what we're towel as 106 00:10:14,69 --> 00:10:19,71 I needed Natick is that we are what we're great brought up and we thought OK so 107 00:10:19,72 --> 00:10:26,33 what happened is. I was there for six years and I was policing my style I 108 00:10:26,72 --> 00:10:32,53 softer kinder compassionate but I rested a lot of people I mean you were at 109 00:10:32,54 --> 00:10:35,48 a party when at the time I was a patrolman I arrested 110 00:10:35,49 --> 00:10:42,39 a lot of people OK because that's my view my occupation not only just 111 00:10:42,40 --> 00:10:46,87 as a social engineer of sorts right but 112 00:10:46,94 --> 00:10:53,25 a law enforcement official So that's what I did I kind of I carried both 113 00:10:53,26 --> 00:10:59,67 obligations at the same time where in some police officers careers they would only 114 00:10:59,68 --> 00:11:04,79 do one thing you know hate doing enforcement when you got it they are now did you 115 00:11:05,01 --> 00:11:09,33 did it did you have one of the regulars could take you out of his way and that is 116 00:11:09,34 --> 00:11:14,14 that's what I'm talking all we did that's yeah that's what I'm getting at Yeah and 117 00:11:14,15 --> 00:11:20,82 you followed his. Guys early No Well I mean you know well the there that you know I 118 00:11:20,83 --> 00:11:25,15 can't throw the baby out with the bathwater there were a lot of them. There were 119 00:11:25,16 --> 00:11:26,98 a lot of situations and there was 120 00:11:26,99 --> 00:11:33,51 a lot that I learned and there were some slices that I didn't agree with 121 00:11:33,57 --> 00:11:37,35 OK and you put the get through that pod right because they're probably it's always 122 00:11:37,36 --> 00:11:42,10 easier to go up to ratchet up to escalate than it is to start off 123 00:11:42,11 --> 00:11:47,89 a hard guy right and then you can't go anywhere from that except to force and I 124 00:11:47,90 --> 00:11:54,53 never I never liked how police officers could just go ahead and use force 125 00:11:55,21 --> 00:11:59,60 and we'll talk about her and which you can do and what you should do and I always 126 00:11:59,61 --> 00:12:05,63 policed by what I should do and should means I should take care of the public when 127 00:12:05,64 --> 00:12:10,82 they are not at their best or if they're at their worst I need to be at my best so 128 00:12:10,83 --> 00:12:16,74 I always gave people as much as I could for the benefits so that's what happened I 129 00:12:16,75 --> 00:12:20,71 was doing and working for six years in Natick and then Oh you were so you're all 130 00:12:20,72 --> 00:12:27,18 mine yeah so what happened is I get married and. At the time Boston housing 131 00:12:27,19 --> 00:12:33,59 authority was under receivership and they were trying to integrate the developments 132 00:12:34,08 --> 00:12:39,42 there were segregated developments and so Boston Charles Town and other areas of 133 00:12:39,43 --> 00:12:46,05 the city and they were charged under the court order to 134 00:12:46,09 --> 00:12:51,06 start to integrate these projects as we referred to them it's not the P.C. 135 00:12:51,56 --> 00:12:56,92 Term but and what happened was I was hired I went to work for them as one of the 136 00:12:57,44 --> 00:13:01,40 beginning fledgling police officers and there were already 137 00:13:01,41 --> 00:13:05,67 a police officer I was working nights in Natick and then days in Boston and the 138 00:13:05,68 --> 00:13:10,04 housing authority I was assigned to Faneuil project how old were you when you were 139 00:13:10,05 --> 00:13:10,87 as all of them became 140 00:13:10,88 --> 00:13:16,37 a police officer twenty one twenty one. Yeah so this has been in my blood my whole 141 00:13:16,38 --> 00:13:21,30 life I guess so I worked in the family will prod I keep saying project for the get 142 00:13:21,31 --> 00:13:23,65 a stop that development so I've had 143 00:13:23,66 --> 00:13:30,48 a No Boston in Boston OK so my job was and I was an investigator supervisor 144 00:13:30,49 --> 00:13:35,96 working with the Boston police OK they had what was known as Team policing and I 145 00:13:35,97 --> 00:13:42,45 was the genesis of community policing as I saw it working to eliminate problems 146 00:13:42,46 --> 00:13:48,34 being proactive good and we were very successful and integrating. 147 00:13:49,72 --> 00:13:55,03 Brighton and other areas of the city and I worked there for one year I was promoted 148 00:13:55,04 --> 00:14:01,11 to an investigative supervisor I had authority over Columbia Point friend family 149 00:14:01,55 --> 00:14:01,87 and 150 00:14:02,13 --> 00:14:07,01 a slew of other areas and I had asked supervisor I was supervising investigators so 151 00:14:07,20 --> 00:14:13,78 very young guy there at that time yeah twenty S Yeah yeah so I'll 152 00:14:15,22 --> 00:14:22,02 As I said I was married one year. A newlywed and working too hard too 153 00:14:22,03 --> 00:14:28,80 much so what I ended up doing is. Friends over in Framingham had talked 154 00:14:28,81 --> 00:14:34,92 about transferring so I transferred from Natick to the framing police My intention 155 00:14:35,45 --> 00:14:36,51 was to go and work for 156 00:14:36,52 --> 00:14:41,62 a bigger department my wife said if I went to Boston she'd kill me so I didn't want 157 00:14:41,63 --> 00:14:46,06 that to happen we still living in the attic No we had moved to Framingham so we 158 00:14:46,54 --> 00:14:53,01 kept moving west OK so I went to work in Framingham. I was on 159 00:14:53,02 --> 00:14:58,08 Framingham a year. Went to the academy and then they made me Detective within 160 00:14:58,09 --> 00:15:00,57 a year that was a good experience for me and this is 161 00:15:00,58 --> 00:15:05,51 a department of one hundred thirty officers railway time. So I worked as 162 00:15:05,52 --> 00:15:08,78 a detective for eight years. I was 163 00:15:08,79 --> 00:15:15,73 a member of the first narcotics unit I was the the guy that was chosen to deal with 164 00:15:15,74 --> 00:15:18,04 sexual assault victims and actually do 165 00:15:18,52 --> 00:15:24,25 a lot of major cases but what makes it important is what I learned is that. 166 00:15:25,94 --> 00:15:31,69 As they said before I was always you know treating people well yeah I was I was the 167 00:15:31,70 --> 00:15:37,81 guy because of my temperament and personality is the locket that's. How do I serve 168 00:15:37,82 --> 00:15:41,94 people right now you're going to it's I would job so I was the guy that was chosen 169 00:15:41,95 --> 00:15:48,89 for the sensitive cases and and I. I felt it was in on or to represent people 170 00:15:49,54 --> 00:15:55,81 as the victims and witnesses yes go ahead one is at this would serialized out so 171 00:15:55,82 --> 00:16:02,31 what I am and as far as perpetrators of the crime the suspects I treated them well 172 00:16:02,78 --> 00:16:05,00 because my job is to be 173 00:16:05,01 --> 00:16:11,58 a diplomat to get cooperation from everyone right in treat people with 174 00:16:11,59 --> 00:16:18,25 dignity and it worked so that I did that I also worked in the first 175 00:16:18,26 --> 00:16:24,79 narcotics unit when crack cocaine first came on the scene it changed 176 00:16:24,80 --> 00:16:31,76 policing I'll bet it it changed it completely we saw people that 177 00:16:32,35 --> 00:16:38,76 were pursuing drugs like never before and we also saw in our 178 00:16:38,77 --> 00:16:44,89 business that community were working to preempt 179 00:16:45,23 --> 00:16:50,04 problems to prevent problems being proactive. Reduced 180 00:16:50,10 --> 00:16:56,36 a lot of the opportunity for people to commit crimes at that time. There was 181 00:16:56,37 --> 00:17:01,66 a theory and it's still practice now broken windows theory where we would pay 182 00:17:01,67 --> 00:17:08,14 attention to the issues that create crime and disorder and take steps to eliminate 183 00:17:08,15 --> 00:17:11,35 those so I was the guy that did 184 00:17:11,36 --> 00:17:16,95 a lot of that and you brought that habit to start and I think I think that some of 185 00:17:16,96 --> 00:17:20,23 it was here right you know yeah there are 186 00:17:20,24 --> 00:17:25,65 a lot of great officers yes there are and so yes there are so I worked in 187 00:17:25,69 --> 00:17:31,14 Framingham know all along twenty years twenty years yes. 188 00:17:32,36 --> 00:17:36,05 So what I did is when I was working as 189 00:17:36,06 --> 00:17:39,56 a detective I took the promotional exam I was never in 190 00:17:39,57 --> 00:17:46,13 a hurry to do more we had to move up because there was just so much excitement and 191 00:17:46,14 --> 00:17:48,39 fun so you were a detective for quite 192 00:17:48,40 --> 00:17:55,31 a while around eight years is an Framingham Yes OK So and I know that so I 193 00:17:55,32 --> 00:18:01,33 ended up but. Taking the test for side engine I was promoted so 194 00:18:02,40 --> 00:18:04,50 I was in charge of the Narcotics Unit for 195 00:18:04,51 --> 00:18:10,40 a year and then typical of what happened in the town. You weren't going to be 196 00:18:10,41 --> 00:18:15,46 allowed to stay in the position so they transition you back into uniform so that 197 00:18:15,47 --> 00:18:18,78 was really yeah so friendly have a town or a city it's 198 00:18:18,79 --> 00:18:25,44 a town town's one of the largest towns right so I worked the the streets went 199 00:18:25,46 --> 00:18:30,100 on just about every conceivable call and brought my own brand of 200 00:18:32,04 --> 00:18:34,55 working with the public yeah as 201 00:18:34,56 --> 00:18:40,11 a leader I insisted upon treating people excellent You're did that on your own 202 00:18:40,12 --> 00:18:46,40 right I mean that was the aisle Yeah my style is. You get more on 203 00:18:46,41 --> 00:18:51,92 a high with. This you know there are people there's no question that should be 204 00:18:51,93 --> 00:18:56,42 arrested Oh yeah and there's no question people that are doing their damnedest 205 00:18:56,53 --> 00:19:01,92 right to try to interfere with us when we're trying to do the right thing so I 206 00:19:01,93 --> 00:19:08,49 totally but I looked at it is that's the challenge that comes with the business 207 00:19:09,04 --> 00:19:15,95 if everyone was going to acquiesce to us then. This job wouldn't be the 208 00:19:15,96 --> 00:19:17,00 job that it is it's 209 00:19:17,01 --> 00:19:23,99 a challenging job but anyway what I ended up doing is things are decide that 210 00:19:24,00 --> 00:19:28,13 I hear all of that that was the approach to take I did someone and they take you 211 00:19:28,14 --> 00:19:32,40 out of their way and that's something I had no which I what I saw I mean I'm 212 00:19:32,41 --> 00:19:39,37 a student of this business and I saw that. The legends in this business the 213 00:19:39,38 --> 00:19:46,35 legendary officers. Guy named Bobby Hardin Natick an older guy who had 214 00:19:46,36 --> 00:19:51,14 a shotgun pointed at his head this guy was going to shoot him and he talked to the 215 00:19:51,15 --> 00:19:54,69 guy and he just you know he talked to the guy and then he took the gun away from 216 00:19:54,70 --> 00:20:00,73 him wow and arrested him and brought him in at South and how those young and others 217 00:20:01,03 --> 00:20:02,86 the guys that would walk into 218 00:20:02,87 --> 00:20:09,79 a situation and they would talk to some people and the next thing you know 219 00:20:09,83 --> 00:20:16,59 they would be order and Comrie stored. In my opinion. That was what I 220 00:20:16,60 --> 00:20:22,70 strove for the to be that guy I agree with that because you know what I agree with 221 00:20:22,71 --> 00:20:29,47 that in my opinion the guy that is that. That goes out and 222 00:20:29,48 --> 00:20:34,77 uses force all those sometimes we have to go yeah OK that's not the preferred 223 00:20:34,78 --> 00:20:40,44 method right but so yeah I've always looked at so I I went into the softer side of 224 00:20:40,45 --> 00:20:44,41 policing and became a verbal judo instructor I became 225 00:20:44,42 --> 00:20:51,29 a hostage negotiator. I went naturally to the groups 226 00:20:51,68 --> 00:20:58,37 before Oakes that experienced the worst times with police officers so I went 227 00:20:58,93 --> 00:21:03,42 to an authentic in minority communities and when I worked in Boston it's who I 228 00:21:03,43 --> 00:21:10,15 worked with and had those conversations those through find myself getting along 229 00:21:10,16 --> 00:21:15,89 pretty well what people even to people they got Yeah right like I did you know that 230 00:21:15,90 --> 00:21:20,54 I'm kind of an approach I think you know you know it that the the why don't you 231 00:21:20,55 --> 00:21:27,41 have if I did so if if you appear threatening Yeah forcing your agenda 232 00:21:27,80 --> 00:21:29,96 right where people don't have 233 00:21:29,97 --> 00:21:33,88 a say and it takes and it causes them to be concerned about they are going to be 234 00:21:33,89 --> 00:21:40,34 back at you they're going to resist I you it's it's the psychology of. Policing 235 00:21:40,35 --> 00:21:44,11 Well since you came to start and I You seem to have I don't know what I'd call it 236 00:21:44,23 --> 00:21:48,02 really go to him when we scaled see if you know what I'm saying here what I mean 237 00:21:48,03 --> 00:21:53,37 Asian skills that maybe I'm saying it wrong but it could well do you know what I'm 238 00:21:53,38 --> 00:22:00,35 saying well yeah I do I do and I think you get honey with you know it well 239 00:22:00,36 --> 00:22:05,95 what what am I trying to say then you will Yeah I know exactly yeah people. 240 00:22:07,42 --> 00:22:11,54 If you mean I want you back like that you're going to get it back right yeah and 241 00:22:11,55 --> 00:22:17,88 you know what. We all watch others around us and try to emulate the best qualities 242 00:22:17,89 --> 00:22:22,11 of the people that we're around right I saw it in my mother you know it all comes 243 00:22:22,12 --> 00:22:28,66 down to family anyway my mom had eleven brothers and she was the only girl Wow 244 00:22:29,02 --> 00:22:30,40 And my father 245 00:22:30,66 --> 00:22:37,21 a salesman both of that passed away and I father salesman not educated right 246 00:22:37,45 --> 00:22:44,41 trying to do the best and the in the fifty's and sixty's. We met many 247 00:22:44,52 --> 00:22:49,10 weird would go to my grandparents all the time where they needed people you know 248 00:22:49,16 --> 00:22:54,34 you know Waltham and I saw the humility and I saw this 249 00:22:55,85 --> 00:23:00,17 beauty in that they didn't have much my mother had to stop going to school in the 250 00:23:00,18 --> 00:23:05,11 eighth grade Oh because my grandmother was sick and she had to stay home real and 251 00:23:05,48 --> 00:23:11,39 what it meant to me is. That in the formative years when she was an early teen Yeah 252 00:23:11,75 --> 00:23:16,93 she didn't have the girl friends where they couldn't see the boy they had to help 253 00:23:16,94 --> 00:23:23,70 out of halls or to help other home so she so surely she she did what she had to 254 00:23:23,74 --> 00:23:29,95 she was beautiful about it she knew that this was the thing to do and you say me 255 00:23:29,96 --> 00:23:36,48 and so forth is you trying to say what I saw was that. We I 256 00:23:36,49 --> 00:23:38,64 learned that people 257 00:23:38,68 --> 00:23:45,51 a lot of people don't necessarily come from great backgrounds but my job is to 258 00:23:45,52 --> 00:23:49,60 meet them where they are and in our job as police officers to understand their 259 00:23:49,61 --> 00:23:51,72 condition so that when we have 260 00:23:51,73 --> 00:23:57,72 a conversation we don't make false judgments right what we don't say example is 261 00:23:57,73 --> 00:24:03,35 a president is no good it's like everyone wants to be understood how many kids 262 00:24:03,36 --> 00:24:03,64 during 263 00:24:03,65 --> 00:24:09,71 a family again total i'm while my mother had eleven brothers she was the only girl 264 00:24:10,06 --> 00:24:16,19 I had three siblings two boys two girls and boys do it so I learned to drive 265 00:24:16,20 --> 00:24:17,32 a bit of them for 266 00:24:17,36 --> 00:24:23,41 a for you know I'm the oldest OK so what I would I learned is that my mother would 267 00:24:23,42 --> 00:24:30,17 not complain and she refused to complain even when she had the legitimate right to 268 00:24:30,18 --> 00:24:34,99 complain about things right she would just say the better days are coming everyone 269 00:24:35,00 --> 00:24:38,97 has a problem just treat other people right so they have 270 00:24:38,98 --> 00:24:43,83 a good relationship with their dad too yes my father was what was interesting is my 271 00:24:43,84 --> 00:24:44,41 father is 272 00:24:44,42 --> 00:24:50,97 a salesman you know we have to go out in to get it got it it's got it we relate 273 00:24:50,98 --> 00:24:57,96 well with her and I have better sales Right right yeah so I saw the two 274 00:24:57,97 --> 00:25:04,49 personalities the humility and the the kindness and then the the drive to try to 275 00:25:05,03 --> 00:25:11,89 get the money for us kids yeah. Yeah and I said you know when I I didn't realize it 276 00:25:11,90 --> 00:25:17,52 at the time but those two qualities are immensely helpful in this business I guess 277 00:25:18,45 --> 00:25:19,52 a lot of them don't have that 278 00:25:19,53 --> 00:25:25,12 a bad thing well you know like everything you know people can learn right you can 279 00:25:25,13 --> 00:25:31,07 learn through experience you know and empathy being empathic in this job is 280 00:25:31,08 --> 00:25:37,24 critical very much so we're going and we're visiting people when they're at their 281 00:25:37,25 --> 00:25:42,16 worst war if I say I have been happen to have an encounter you stop somebody in 282 00:25:42,17 --> 00:25:48,98 a car. We evoke panic you know the fight flight free and fear 283 00:25:49,39 --> 00:25:55,17 and I don't want to cause people to be fearful you know I want people to respect 284 00:25:55,18 --> 00:26:01,75 what we do I want Iraq to certainly do they understand that I would job is to be in 285 00:26:01,76 --> 00:26:07,87 basters and shepherds because you're coming from from Framingham to stoke Yeah 286 00:26:08,57 --> 00:26:14,16 yeah I'm sorry didn't go no that's OK so yeah yeah so I thought. 287 00:26:15,88 --> 00:26:16,27 I was 288 00:26:16,28 --> 00:26:21,61 a lieutenant there and my job would frankly have been framing and yeah and my job 289 00:26:21,62 --> 00:26:27,38 was to bring the Brazilian community in to the the town government 290 00:26:27,39 --> 00:26:33,07 a way to get there it is maybe now at that point to. Sleep forty's early fifty's OK 291 00:26:33,49 --> 00:26:38,41 so my job was to bring them in. To the fold because we had 292 00:26:38,42 --> 00:26:45,26 a population and. Sizable population of Brazilians and what 293 00:26:45,27 --> 00:26:51,95 took place was unique it was not anything on like others as an primate now yeah we 294 00:26:51,96 --> 00:26:54,86 had a. There was 295 00:26:54,87 --> 00:27:01,72 a large distrusts because when immigrants come to our country they ascribe 296 00:27:02,43 --> 00:27:08,10 our actions to the same actions of their police show up and American policing is 297 00:27:08,11 --> 00:27:13,66 the most humane policing in the world and said Yeah I'm just going to say it 298 00:27:13,67 --> 00:27:14,89 because we're dealing with 299 00:27:15,47 --> 00:27:20,74 a population of immigrants and people from different backgrounds religion and 300 00:27:20,75 --> 00:27:27,51 ethnic and we do it very well. So what happened in Framingham 301 00:27:27,52 --> 00:27:31,73 is. We had a girl who went to 302 00:27:31,74 --> 00:27:34,73 a. You can call it 303 00:27:34,74 --> 00:27:41,45 a. Black market liposuction doctor this doctor literally 304 00:27:41,46 --> 00:27:46,79 sucked the life out of her killed her in this liposuction ing with 305 00:27:46,80 --> 00:27:53,08 a suck fat out so it's cosmetic surgery and she was brought to the hospital and and 306 00:27:53,09 --> 00:27:59,69 what happened I found out was that. The lot of folks in the community knew this was 307 00:27:59,70 --> 00:28:03,10 a girl was going on this. And you reply you have 308 00:28:03,11 --> 00:28:09,08 a say read and so what I felt was this horrible feeling is like why 309 00:28:09,09 --> 00:28:10,58 a people taking 310 00:28:10,59 --> 00:28:15,56 a chance with their life yeah when everyone knows it's dangerous in the answer was 311 00:28:15,57 --> 00:28:19,88 simple they were afraid of calling us they had more trust and faith in their own 312 00:28:19,89 --> 00:28:22,96 community to go second issue that popped up was 313 00:28:22,97 --> 00:28:28,89 a double murder where this woman whose husband was jealous. 314 00:28:31,16 --> 00:28:34,93 And abused her and murdered her and her son with 315 00:28:34,94 --> 00:28:41,05 a hammer it's still Framingham still framing out and it was difficult for us as 316 00:28:41,06 --> 00:28:47,45 a police the primary was to hear that she was afraid to come to us because she 317 00:28:47,49 --> 00:28:52,80 thought that talking to the police would be tantamount to what rank we owe at this 318 00:28:52,81 --> 00:28:59,61 point Lieutenant OK. So I was in charge of administrative services OK And 319 00:28:59,62 --> 00:29:02,31 so what I ended up doing is we had 320 00:29:02,32 --> 00:29:09,29 a conversation the chief asked me because of my reputation to do what 321 00:29:09,30 --> 00:29:13,66 I could to bring the Brazilian community into the fold and as 322 00:29:13,67 --> 00:29:20,41 a result I was successful in we had the the ambassador to Brazil 323 00:29:20,42 --> 00:29:21,71 out we had 324 00:29:21,89 --> 00:29:27,11 a large community meetings identified stakeholders people in the community in media 325 00:29:27,34 --> 00:29:33,97 religion and businesses and it's now framing him as one of the most 326 00:29:33,98 --> 00:29:38,25 viable Brazilian communities they've integrated I also brought the first Brazilian 327 00:29:38,26 --> 00:29:43,34 American police officers what brand what it was at this point potent still all OK 328 00:29:43,38 --> 00:29:49,95 You know OK so so they took advantage of that you were away with people basically 329 00:29:49,99 --> 00:29:54,31 you know there was you know I'm obedient the they asked no no no what I mean is 330 00:29:54,32 --> 00:30:00,20 that you seem to know how to handle people for a while. When I know 331 00:30:00,21 --> 00:30:06,68 a lot of them go well but you know we're all different that's true and in this 332 00:30:06,69 --> 00:30:09,39 business you know it's 333 00:30:09,40 --> 00:30:15,73 a challenging business OK so I you know I did I I brought some change to 334 00:30:15,74 --> 00:30:22,16 Framingham So now looking at stoping you know. We have 335 00:30:22,17 --> 00:30:27,66 a lot in sports or his and we have fairly low ends and yet we're doing very well in 336 00:30:27,67 --> 00:30:31,07 our relationship well you came into 337 00:30:31,08 --> 00:30:35,02 a department that had something where you know problems as you well know yeah but 338 00:30:35,32 --> 00:30:39,74 you know it's like we had a lot of great musicians but it we didn't have 339 00:30:39,75 --> 00:30:42,41 a good band leader so good point you know her 340 00:30:42,42 --> 00:30:47,62 a good way to look I agree with that where you just said so you know I write. 341 00:30:49,20 --> 00:30:53,96 I didn't want to be a cheat. Didn't you know I had no desire to be 342 00:30:53,97 --> 00:30:55,99 a chief really I was asked to be 343 00:30:56,44 --> 00:31:00,14 a maid and frankly have. Been for me I was contented to be 344 00:31:00,15 --> 00:31:05,12 a lieutenant to me OK I had the best job you weren't trying to get to be 345 00:31:05,13 --> 00:31:12,02 a well. Well like everyone else. You have to live you have to 346 00:31:12,45 --> 00:31:19,16 strive to improve yourself every right and I would study as I said before I 347 00:31:19,18 --> 00:31:25,43 studied people around me I studied bosses to see with they made the decisions and 348 00:31:25,44 --> 00:31:32,09 how they were saying stand or not right and we're in the business of managing 349 00:31:32,10 --> 00:31:38,31 human beings Yeah influencing in persuading behaviors and 350 00:31:38,95 --> 00:31:44,74 like anyone else I would watch how some of the bosses would do things and I'd say I 351 00:31:44,75 --> 00:31:51,09 do it this way who are we should ride it out way. But Monday morning quarterbacking 352 00:31:51,64 --> 00:31:56,71 can be corrosive to say that to yourself Right yeah I mean because otherwise it's 353 00:31:56,72 --> 00:32:01,30 like. You know it's offensive to some people tell you not me and we all agree that 354 00:32:01,31 --> 00:32:06,93 we're all unique Right right so don't criticize me for me making 355 00:32:06,94 --> 00:32:13,60 a decision like this so I I looked at it like you know I 356 00:32:14,81 --> 00:32:19,32 think I can do that you are affecting you we could I mean finally you decided to 357 00:32:19,33 --> 00:32:26,14 apply for that so you know I I applied for so Southborough we were lieutenant at 358 00:32:26,15 --> 00:32:27,57 this point in framing for 359 00:32:27,58 --> 00:32:32,79 a meal Yeah OK OK I played for South bro my my friend was the chief and he died of 360 00:32:32,80 --> 00:32:35,18 pancreatic cancer and oh he was 361 00:32:35,19 --> 00:32:42,16 a young guy and I thought you know what why not just to see OK yeah sort of like 362 00:32:42,17 --> 00:32:46,99 testing and so you know put together so I threw my application in as 363 00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:52,24 a finalist and they went with the incumbent What town was that now South Bronx 364 00:32:52,28 --> 00:32:57,75 South Park OK so I just looked at it like you know oh they why would they have 365 00:32:57,84 --> 00:32:59,45 a guy and then you know there was 366 00:32:59,46 --> 00:33:05,55 a woman there right so I was contented you know I I thought well they did OK for 367 00:33:05,56 --> 00:33:10,07 a guy what are they going to be awesome I'll ask you didn't write you know you know 368 00:33:10,08 --> 00:33:16,16 what's right I'm not bashful but you know I've I thought you know do I have what it 369 00:33:16,17 --> 00:33:20,33 takes you know every other very nice way what people policy that I've met 370 00:33:20,34 --> 00:33:22,64 a lot of that I my life you know you have 371 00:33:22,65 --> 00:33:27,83 a you know how to handle people well that's your big quality I take go ahead. 372 00:33:29,48 --> 00:33:34,22 Well I know I'd like it better but quite obvious you know so I you know what 373 00:33:34,23 --> 00:33:36,42 happened is a I got 374 00:33:36,43 --> 00:33:41,57 a call and they told me Stoughton is open as well as sandwich and Duxbury. 375 00:33:42,84 --> 00:33:49,44 So. I said sure so I did my due 376 00:33:49,45 --> 00:33:51,79 diligence you know I talked to 377 00:33:51,80 --> 00:33:57,34 a lot of people in this town it did lots of people before you were four I've been 378 00:33:57,49 --> 00:34:04,15 well I I put my resume in hair and I think well of me here in Duxbury and 379 00:34:04,69 --> 00:34:10,28 I just withdrew from Duxbury I would I made it to there in the next level for us to 380 00:34:10,29 --> 00:34:14,98 say so I prior to the assessment center which is 381 00:34:15,45 --> 00:34:22,25 a daylong exercise. On many issues I talk about Stoughton at 382 00:34:22,26 --> 00:34:23,95 Stoke I'm right I had interviewed 383 00:34:23,96 --> 00:34:30,73 a lot of people. Past politicians people in the police the prominent people from 384 00:34:30,74 --> 00:34:37,24 the school you went in there and then I spoke Yes I spoke. You know to 385 00:34:37,25 --> 00:34:40,88 a lot of people that you had already applied right but I wanted to know about 386 00:34:40,89 --> 00:34:45,30 Stoughton Oh OK Like I said I one of the things that I did for 387 00:34:45,31 --> 00:34:49,76 a living is when you don't know something you go and find out I mean did you get to 388 00:34:50,16 --> 00:34:56,14 get the job by the by this time Oh OK You're just trying to see where you might be 389 00:34:56,15 --> 00:35:01,98 I want to do this I want to see what's there yeah I want to see Still what is this 390 00:35:02,16 --> 00:35:06,54 tower called or I you know I mean you know and so I knew her and I lived here and 391 00:35:06,55 --> 00:35:10,95 at that place like right all about you. I did 392 00:35:10,96 --> 00:35:17,44 a million yeah the good and the bad I'm only kidding it's information Yeah 393 00:35:17,86 --> 00:35:23,44 it's it's information that I wanted to know because in the business I'm in and 394 00:35:23,68 --> 00:35:28,81 leasing business yeah you need to have as much information to make the right 395 00:35:28,82 --> 00:35:33,94 decision it had already applied the right applied and I knew the more that I looked 396 00:35:33,95 --> 00:35:39,90 at the town and I looked at what was occurring that I wanted to be here really 397 00:35:40,58 --> 00:35:47,51 wow I wanted to be this this wasn't some fluke where I just decided OK 398 00:35:47,52 --> 00:35:50,39 I can be a chief did I think that I want to say it was 399 00:35:50,40 --> 00:35:55,42 a challenge so that's why I came here OK because you know there were problems right 400 00:35:55,79 --> 00:36:01,10 and that's what attracted me right you know to say Yeah and I I that's why I came 401 00:36:01,11 --> 00:36:07,93 here because I I saw that there were things that I could do I could bring 402 00:36:07,94 --> 00:36:14,88 my brain and here and do what I felt was the right prescription for 403 00:36:14,90 --> 00:36:19,09 the town because you start work at other departments and sold well there because I 404 00:36:19,48 --> 00:36:26,34 and my experience with the minority communities in Boston. Here I'm not 405 00:36:26,35 --> 00:36:31,69 here but I mean Framingham and just my temperament I'm I'm you know how to handle 406 00:36:31,70 --> 00:36:37,76 people well. You know what I mean you know I go if I go I know that it is an easy 407 00:36:37,77 --> 00:36:43,87 way and easy you know like if I could just get the opportunity to do what I think I 408 00:36:43,88 --> 00:36:49,59 can do and we you know we get the job and if your dad 409 00:36:50,32 --> 00:36:56,09 registers how or have you been here five any five years and four months really you 410 00:36:56,10 --> 00:36:58,60 know. So when there are 411 00:36:58,61 --> 00:37:03,97 a lot of applicants I forget how that thing went was fifty three so it's There were 412 00:37:03,98 --> 00:37:10,25 only when they keep narrowing it down and narrowing and yes the the there was 413 00:37:10,26 --> 00:37:11,54 a group there was 414 00:37:11,55 --> 00:37:16,97 a committee put together for reviewing resume may I say get how it went so well you 415 00:37:16,98 --> 00:37:23,06 were like the last of the final three or something yeah where you yeah yeah OK so 416 00:37:23,11 --> 00:37:29,18 you know I floated to the top and you get the job and here I am you know it's you 417 00:37:29,19 --> 00:37:29,46 know what 418 00:37:29,47 --> 00:37:35,73 a little of five years ago yes you know you're like that's I love you but the area 419 00:37:36,32 --> 00:37:39,17 you know the the the it's a good town is and it has 420 00:37:39,18 --> 00:37:45,66 a great. Fortune to leave you know it's there's so much I can't do you know there 421 00:37:45,67 --> 00:37:52,29 are concerns will shift into present day there are things that I can't do limited 422 00:37:52,98 --> 00:37:56,97 you know I don't have the depth of manpower like I'd like to be able to have 423 00:37:56,98 --> 00:38:02,06 a traffic going out running radar right on issues where I just don't have it like 424 00:38:02,07 --> 00:38:06,55 a day like today for cops on the road other days I'm running with three on the road 425 00:38:06,59 --> 00:38:12,84 let me ask you now when you applied to when you heard about that they would see an 426 00:38:12,85 --> 00:38:19,49 opening right I presume of Yes And did you know that their department was pretty 427 00:38:19,50 --> 00:38:22,55 much and I. Had 428 00:38:22,56 --> 00:38:29,11 a problem type situation that I think directed me I'd actually I thought I saw 429 00:38:29,15 --> 00:38:36,08 cops that had the ability to take the town forward right and I saw 430 00:38:36,16 --> 00:38:42,81 political interference I saw and it was to end a fair and so long as people have 431 00:38:42,82 --> 00:38:49,81 a double Atlanta as we well know the big three factors. Was leadership the 432 00:38:49,82 --> 00:38:55,96 media attention yeah and political support or lack thereof 433 00:38:56,56 --> 00:39:03,52 and. I knew what I wanted to do with all. This you look at it 434 00:39:03,53 --> 00:39:08,74 as a challenge so I could see a lot of you know you felt like Sister first role in 435 00:39:08,75 --> 00:39:10,99 a boulder up a hill but I was on a there was 436 00:39:11,00 --> 00:39:17,72 a labor of love where I I love this business when it's done well right right 437 00:39:18,17 --> 00:39:23,68 we change lives and I told you I got into this business because of 438 00:39:23,69 --> 00:39:29,01 a death notification and some of the did we pioneered work with people who are 439 00:39:29,02 --> 00:39:32,18 mentally ill in Framingham I was one of the founders of 440 00:39:32,19 --> 00:39:36,63 a program to deal with folks that are mentally ill compassionate justice instead of 441 00:39:36,64 --> 00:39:42,37 arresting the right for mental illness because this symptoms right were manifested 442 00:39:42,38 --> 00:39:47,42 in crime we would divert them into treatment and you do have 443 00:39:47,43 --> 00:39:51,73 a good way with people from what I've seen I mean they you and I get to live very 444 00:39:51,74 --> 00:39:57,24 well but even beyond that you really know how to deal with people and I don't see 445 00:39:57,25 --> 00:40:02,01 any I don't see I hear any problems in the stoat the police department whereas 446 00:40:02,02 --> 00:40:07,04 before there were many we policing I just say I mean I know I appreciate that 447 00:40:07,58 --> 00:40:11,32 policing is we're one step away from 448 00:40:11,33 --> 00:40:15,80 a bad day all the time I can see why I had to because you have 449 00:40:15,81 --> 00:40:22,66 a lot to deal with we do in every day I mean when we're going to people and in 450 00:40:22,67 --> 00:40:28,69 crisis Oh yeah day no secret this business is under fire Yeah so we could be on the 451 00:40:28,70 --> 00:40:35,53 front page tomorrow but excuse me so you know you know things tend to be put going 452 00:40:35,54 --> 00:40:39,76 pretty good don't they are and this town I would say as 453 00:40:39,77 --> 00:40:46,18 a long time Reza that would have been it's going very well that's what I mean yes. 454 00:40:46,76 --> 00:40:51,83 I don't hear any problems at all. Well good even if there are problems we look at 455 00:40:51,84 --> 00:40:56,27 ourselves in the mirror we take care of it right we hold ourselves accountable 456 00:40:56,63 --> 00:41:01,20 right I mean think about it would what do you with the common theme across this 457 00:41:01,21 --> 00:41:07,31 country there's the sense that police are not accountable all that was I was going 458 00:41:07,32 --> 00:41:14,23 to ask that later but let's let's they do it now. There are Boy I'll tell you. 459 00:41:16,02 --> 00:41:20,99 That depending where you are it's pretty tough to be a cop in the South when I see 460 00:41:21,00 --> 00:41:27,42 a car owner. And probably one telling you what is because now everyone when you say 461 00:41:27,43 --> 00:41:33,35 here do you mean it's OK everywhere in this country we're not immune from the 462 00:41:33,36 --> 00:41:38,59 cameras being held up in our face and people calling us so why you harassing this 463 00:41:38,60 --> 00:41:45,53 person it's happening OK happened Saturday night Gillette with an 464 00:41:45,54 --> 00:41:50,12 officer one of my officers could push down stairs at the stadium during 465 00:41:50,13 --> 00:41:51,95 a concert trying to do 466 00:41:51,96 --> 00:41:55,73 a job with people confronted her and put her late yeah I punched her in my ear we 467 00:41:55,74 --> 00:41:56,05 got 468 00:41:56,06 --> 00:42:01,46 a job if you tell us the thing need assistance and somebody puts them down pushed 469 00:42:01,47 --> 00:42:06,54 punched her in the chest and she fell down so we're like oh yes. It's not what it 470 00:42:06,55 --> 00:42:10,34 used to be people. Have 471 00:42:10,35 --> 00:42:16,73 a constitutional right. To have their case brought in front of a court where 472 00:42:16,74 --> 00:42:19,25 a court will decide whether they had committed 473 00:42:19,26 --> 00:42:26,06 a crime or not right people are trying the A cases on the streets many times in 474 00:42:26,07 --> 00:42:32,94 resisting people can't resist arrest and that's one of the 475 00:42:32,95 --> 00:42:39,29 problems now people will resist and it's increasing across the nation incidents of 476 00:42:39,30 --> 00:42:45,02 force all one when I came here not that I could predict anything I'm just 477 00:42:45,03 --> 00:42:51,83 a simple guy but when I came to Stoughton and I see the national trend is that for 478 00:42:51,84 --> 00:42:58,13 us seems to be escalating how police officers use force we seem to be using more of 479 00:42:58,14 --> 00:43:03,33 it rats when our accreditation policies kicked in and we have 480 00:43:03,34 --> 00:43:06,74 a use of force review every time we use force it's 481 00:43:06,75 --> 00:43:11,82 a separate report to see if we can start name and start to see if it was if force 482 00:43:11,83 --> 00:43:16,95 was used according to policy on OK So we do policy reviews based on the incident 483 00:43:16,96 --> 00:43:20,41 all we also do a review it would be 484 00:43:20,42 --> 00:43:25,45 a management review to see if the officers acted within policy we've changed 485 00:43:25,46 --> 00:43:31,35 policies because of it but the other point was. If we don't review ourselves 486 00:43:31,36 --> 00:43:37,01 constantly right we will fall into bad practice there are penalties if you find 487 00:43:37,02 --> 00:43:39,58 that someone was kind of out of line and you know you could have 488 00:43:39,59 --> 00:43:44,49 a consent decree the feds can come in and take you over No but I mean do you take 489 00:43:44,50 --> 00:43:49,58 some action sometimes and. You know we do we hold ourselves accountable OK and. 490 00:43:50,71 --> 00:43:57,43 Don't go back on force like an tasers I knew that. Tasers 491 00:43:57,92 --> 00:44:03,07 I've read that one time on one of our little discussions I wasn't too much in favor 492 00:44:03,08 --> 00:44:09,21 of them but I am now I am now one of the the we need to add some people could some 493 00:44:09,22 --> 00:44:15,98 do die not many but will they die of other factors at parity they do 494 00:44:16,11 --> 00:44:20,60 sometimes I've changed my mind to allow that way because what we don't want to do 495 00:44:20,61 --> 00:44:25,90 is we don't want to shoot people you know don't want to know and that's 496 00:44:25,91 --> 00:44:30,99 a last resort right right so I've been to East and I can tell you it's all you I 497 00:44:31,00 --> 00:44:37,09 think it's only that it's not pleasant and I would never volunteer to. Take 498 00:44:37,10 --> 00:44:41,32 someone's word out you know you know it is you know I don't it's not 499 00:44:41,33 --> 00:44:46,32 a funny thing is what I hear it's something that there's an awful lot of respect 500 00:44:46,33 --> 00:44:52,30 the officers respect that weapon did you get would carry this now when you're took 501 00:44:52,31 --> 00:44:55,59 over and stop. What kind of 502 00:44:55,60 --> 00:45:00,11 a reception does your dad among because it was an old chief there and knew you were 503 00:45:00,12 --> 00:45:06,44 woods. Was no longer chief right didn't you have any. 504 00:45:07,49 --> 00:45:13,08 Opposition from the man that you took over or the police you know I'm asking you 505 00:45:13,09 --> 00:45:19,43 know I think because I was right you know. Was this our milk or what it was I would 506 00:45:19,44 --> 00:45:25,55 grapes you know like yeah why the well says some of that you know because what. You 507 00:45:25,56 --> 00:45:31,30 know obviously there was change was happening there was no question it and I think 508 00:45:31,31 --> 00:45:35,82 a lot of them wanted to see it happen too and that's why you know without me 509 00:45:35,90 --> 00:45:40,32 knowing about what people thought because they can read their minds I did what I 510 00:45:40,33 --> 00:45:46,19 did is I understood that if I went into the organization and declared that I come 511 00:45:46,20 --> 00:45:50,76 from Framingham and Natick and I've got some experience in Boston so therefore what 512 00:45:50,77 --> 00:45:54,58 I say should be listened to and I'm talking to you like I'm from the mountain 513 00:45:54,88 --> 00:46:00,23 people would throw me in the barrel Right right because that presumes that they 514 00:46:00,24 --> 00:46:05,15 haven't done anything right and that I know more than I'm not so there are 515 00:46:05,16 --> 00:46:10,19 a lot of talented people so white it didn't find any opposition and you are I mean 516 00:46:10,20 --> 00:46:15,03 it's anybody I know there's the wait and see period because being Yeah the sixth 517 00:46:15,04 --> 00:46:21,73 police chief in ten years I mean there was this sense that this was guy 518 00:46:22,09 --> 00:46:23,39 you know this guy who's 519 00:46:23,40 --> 00:46:28,98 a flash in the pan we've seen this before one guy will last three weeks is another 520 00:46:28,99 --> 00:46:34,74 one so it's like this guy better better be different and there was you know I 521 00:46:34,75 --> 00:46:40,99 understand and agree this is that natural reluctance to just come in and say Chief 522 00:46:41,51 --> 00:46:46,54 we're all on board and we're going to follow you wherever you take us they want to 523 00:46:46,55 --> 00:46:51,18 see who this guy was all you had to kind of probe itself so yes so I said that with 524 00:46:51,19 --> 00:46:55,99 every officer did you spend about two hours with everyone hardly been out here on 525 00:46:56,00 --> 00:46:59,79 the job so long as they got there you know sat down with them and I wanted to know 526 00:46:59,80 --> 00:47:03,52 what they did well what they feel the department did well with their careers should 527 00:47:03,53 --> 00:47:09,31 Aereo and with with they felt that I should be looking at to to move them forward 528 00:47:09,68 --> 00:47:16,46 so. Is that he said before as an investigator I gather all the information right 529 00:47:16,63 --> 00:47:19,26 right so I make an assessment and 530 00:47:19,27 --> 00:47:24,12 a judgment and lead people and what I did after I spoke with everyone all the 531 00:47:24,13 --> 00:47:30,67 officers and staff yeah I knew what the department looked like and what I needed to 532 00:47:30,68 --> 00:47:35,80 do to move people forward and so we can bark on 533 00:47:35,81 --> 00:47:42,19 a an aggressive campaign of leadership development going as well as technical 534 00:47:42,20 --> 00:47:46,83 skills and competence you have good relations with the everybody in the department 535 00:47:46,87 --> 00:47:52,04 I don't know where they are but what I presume you're doing I do I do know I mean 536 00:47:52,05 --> 00:47:54,51 sometimes you have a very serious sometimes you have to correct 537 00:47:54,52 --> 00:47:55,61 a right you know despite 538 00:47:55,62 --> 00:48:02,09 a couple of naysayers You know I write you right but the point is. That 539 00:48:03,05 --> 00:48:09,45 they come first and I take care of them I treat people like adults I'm serious and 540 00:48:10,31 --> 00:48:16,81 they returned you know in kind they returned quality work right so right 541 00:48:19,20 --> 00:48:25,71 so things are going at it like. Yes Stoughton is good to me good Tara Yes it's 542 00:48:25,72 --> 00:48:32,71 a good town OK I want to ask you about the problem with police 543 00:48:32,72 --> 00:48:39,34 though in the country you know the sheriff's deputy there was shot and killed down 544 00:48:39,35 --> 00:48:45,96 Harrison County in Texas and. They just I was watching T.V. 545 00:48:45,97 --> 00:48:51,98 Before I came to the show here and they blacked fellow that is charged with the 546 00:48:51,99 --> 00:48:55,42 crime and it showed you have a being in 547 00:48:55,43 --> 00:49:02,41 a court you know. How do you look at you know what do you think of all of 548 00:49:02,42 --> 00:49:06,94 this that's going on we don't see color I don't see color what I see you know 549 00:49:06,95 --> 00:49:13,50 normal behavior right where I I mean it seems that that's become an issue of you 550 00:49:13,51 --> 00:49:18,98 know nationally. This would be it's a huge issue nationally Yeah there's 551 00:49:18,99 --> 00:49:20,82 a sense that police are out 552 00:49:20,83 --> 00:49:27,82 a concept I get why we are we are much more so than ever I pay how 553 00:49:27,83 --> 00:49:31,66 do you view that I mean do you are you guys aware of it and you must be 554 00:49:31,67 --> 00:49:38,40 a painfully aware of it. Wouldn't it have to take certain we as an industry 555 00:49:39,60 --> 00:49:44,96 kill less people than surgeons than the medical profession doctors kill far more 556 00:49:44,97 --> 00:49:51,05 than we do I would believe that yeah but going back and all and honing our failures 557 00:49:51,06 --> 00:49:54,19 because we have to own our failures right there's 558 00:49:54,20 --> 00:50:00,01 a certain legitimacy to some of their complaints but most of it when it's 559 00:50:00,02 --> 00:50:05,100 investigated properly shows that some of the brighter people you have the better 560 00:50:06,01 --> 00:50:13,01 like rhetoric is all hot air and it's an agenda based one of my 561 00:50:13,02 --> 00:50:19,82 worries is that the the the impact of these events are causing 562 00:50:19,83 --> 00:50:26,44 officers to think about engaging people I've had an officer come to me and say 563 00:50:26,99 --> 00:50:31,59 geez I'm afraid that you know somebody will make an accusation and I'll be in 564 00:50:31,60 --> 00:50:37,94 trouble there and I don't know how to defend myself the answer is just keep doing 565 00:50:38,39 --> 00:50:42,49 what you're trained to do right through the right because when you when you go to 566 00:50:42,50 --> 00:50:48,29 training in your police to the standards of the training excellence you will. You 567 00:50:48,30 --> 00:50:48,67 can be 568 00:50:48,68 --> 00:50:53,71 a you know you can be the victim of an allegation but you can get it exonerated but 569 00:50:53,72 --> 00:50:59,23 the problem is in the time in this country is the media will present such an 570 00:50:59,24 --> 00:51:04,64 adverse right look at what we've done that you're tried and convicted before you 571 00:51:04,65 --> 00:51:11,36 even see the next day's paper but that does seem to be the police nationally seem 572 00:51:11,37 --> 00:51:17,66 to be targets now and it does that mean that we might be headed for the day when. 573 00:51:18,87 --> 00:51:25,22 It's not going to be used if you know what I'm saying as if you're if you're target 574 00:51:25,26 --> 00:51:30,35 Well I think for random shooting at it is this is really bothering me there's no 575 00:51:30,36 --> 00:51:36,88 discussion about softer appearing uniforms and it's in my 576 00:51:36,89 --> 00:51:41,32 view I've been doing this job as it'll be next July forty years wearing 577 00:51:41,33 --> 00:51:46,33 a uniform Yeah it's got nothing to do with the uniform it's the body in the uniform 578 00:51:46,79 --> 00:51:52,35 and I have becoming targets and I know but always and I don't but just the fact 579 00:51:52,36 --> 00:51:58,49 that there are cop would it is is either we're going to be supported 580 00:51:59,44 --> 00:52:04,20 and it has to start from the very top at the White House and done but in the 581 00:52:04,22 --> 00:52:09,26 courthouse have support from the White House to the courthouse Yeah and that all 582 00:52:09,27 --> 00:52:14,72 people in the public in the community understand that we have 583 00:52:14,72 --> 00:52:21,18 a system of justice yeah that is one of the best in the world and we have to insist 584 00:52:21,19 --> 00:52:26,26 on staying with that was system of justice and our constitutional rights are 585 00:52:26,26 --> 00:52:32,11 protected if we don't stick with this system of justice and act we strove to 586 00:52:32,12 --> 00:52:38,64 authority we will have WOLLASTON us in my sense police officers 587 00:52:39,42 --> 00:52:45,90 we are by default. Yeah identified as what's wrong with government 588 00:52:46,02 --> 00:52:50,53 Yes that's what I'm getting at and there are in many and not 589 00:52:50,54 --> 00:52:56,39 a number of cases their targets as you well they agree but I die refused to give up 590 00:52:56,40 --> 00:53:03,00 on people I think that the silent majority of folks agree with what we're saying 591 00:53:03,01 --> 00:53:09,76 that we need to support but the biggest frustration now is that the silent majority 592 00:53:10,19 --> 00:53:16,79 remains to silent for too long and that the one percenters 593 00:53:17,13 --> 00:53:23,85 drive the agenda and. The media you know we you turn on the 594 00:53:23,86 --> 00:53:28,33 news in the lot of people say I can't stand watching it because they go to the guy 595 00:53:28,37 --> 00:53:32,82 who doesn't know anything who pines about what we should be doing and he could be 596 00:53:32,83 --> 00:53:37,06 so wrong there just frustrates me and I don't want to see it any more right and you 597 00:53:37,07 --> 00:53:43,74 know going to going to these fringe witnesses and getting crazy opinions 598 00:53:43,75 --> 00:53:48,99 doesn't help us but they are do you find that in your department some of them and 599 00:53:48,100 --> 00:53:55,92 kind of worried about that we're worried but at the same time you know we 600 00:53:55,93 --> 00:54:02,82 are skeptical Well this is realizing they well it could happen you know we've never 601 00:54:02,84 --> 00:54:07,99 been exploited you know like we have now that's what I'm getting at right now and 602 00:54:07,100 --> 00:54:09,57 I'm concerned I'm concerned as 603 00:54:09,57 --> 00:54:16,42 a and civilian if no right in you know when I look at it like if we take 604 00:54:16,92 --> 00:54:22,60 the standard of fairness standard and somebody says well all police are alike. 605 00:54:23,100 --> 00:54:30,20 Then it is. Awfully biased and it's awfully insensitive you can't 606 00:54:30,71 --> 00:54:37,41 ascribe the actions of one to all you know because. That's that's what's happening 607 00:54:37,42 --> 00:54:42,66 across the country right people are saying well all minority folks are being 608 00:54:42,67 --> 00:54:49,48 treated the same way it's not true and when you spend your career working 609 00:54:49,49 --> 00:54:55,78 with people in ethnic minority groups were religious groups and right we've done 610 00:54:55,79 --> 00:55:02,03 and I've done it it's it's like the dog whistle the unit when somebody says oh 611 00:55:02,04 --> 00:55:08,93 you've done something that's prejudicial we're biased it it's unfair when 612 00:55:08,94 --> 00:55:15,59 I say I welcome I welcome the scrutiny we welcome the scrutiny because I can tell 613 00:55:15,60 --> 00:55:22,41 you we have here to the Constitution and if somebody wants to make their case then 614 00:55:22,55 --> 00:55:26,84 let's do it we have no problem you haven't had any problems that way have you and 615 00:55:27,43 --> 00:55:31,63 what are. Some of the offices becoming somewhat of 616 00:55:31,64 --> 00:55:36,20 a tie I get I don't mean so I don't know I don't know you know it is it's they 617 00:55:36,21 --> 00:55:40,42 where we are but you're mad and they must be there you see what's going on in the 618 00:55:40,43 --> 00:55:43,04 car battery and we are. We are 619 00:55:43,05 --> 00:55:48,29 a group of people men and women that understand what's going on in this country I'm 620 00:55:48,30 --> 00:55:52,42 sure Foresman I'm sure we're very aware right and on 621 00:55:52,43 --> 00:55:59,05 a local level right we experience our own issues with some folks when their cell 622 00:55:59,06 --> 00:56:05,94 phones come out and they record of us all really yeah and so. We all in 623 00:56:05,95 --> 00:56:11,87 one of the things we preach is the church you have to be the best you can be when 624 00:56:11,88 --> 00:56:17,28 they're at their worst right and what we've done is we've taken steps I have six 625 00:56:17,44 --> 00:56:23,23 verbal judo instructors actually five people that I sent out the communication 626 00:56:23,24 --> 00:56:29,03 training for good tailored to deescalate folks good tailored good at 627 00:56:29,83 --> 00:56:36,53 generating voluntary compliance so that we don't have to be using force and I had 628 00:56:36,54 --> 00:56:42,74 my intention is to do everything in my power to deliver the most humane 629 00:56:42,75 --> 00:56:48,67 compassionate policing possible I believe that you have and then step in isn't 630 00:56:48,78 --> 00:56:54,39 getting some of this ethnic. That stuff that's going on in the country what do you 631 00:56:54,40 --> 00:57:00,35 mean well I Black said targeting cops they say in certain areas says Tighe it's 632 00:57:00,36 --> 00:57:07,33 because they feel the cops and did that. Well Dad's that letter every time 633 00:57:07,34 --> 00:57:13,34 he had to not say what he had NO NO NO BUT WE ON A That's what I'm getting I'm like 634 00:57:13,35 --> 00:57:13,49 on 635 00:57:13,50 --> 00:57:21,22 a local level We'll see you know why you picking on me yeah basically basically 636 00:57:21,23 --> 00:57:24,95 it's the brushback pitch you know if somebody doesn't want us to give them 637 00:57:24,96 --> 00:57:29,57 a ticket will hold them accountable all I so that's happened is it's happening you 638 00:57:29,58 --> 00:57:31,86 know and that because I was such 639 00:57:31,87 --> 00:57:36,42 a well you know it's what does it do where we're supposed to get all excited and 640 00:57:36,43 --> 00:57:42,00 nervous when when that happens no you know it's like will own our failures and if 641 00:57:42,26 --> 00:57:45,67 if there is an allegation that there is discrimination or 642 00:57:45,68 --> 00:57:51,14 a bias no problem we are under accreditation standards we collect all of our 643 00:57:51,15 --> 00:57:55,41 traffic stop data and we look to make sure that we're not disproportionately 644 00:57:55,42 --> 00:58:02,07 targeting anyone or and forcing adversely against some populations and we are 645 00:58:02,51 --> 00:58:05,50 average we're just like everyone in the business with 646 00:58:05,51 --> 00:58:09,24 a cross section and it is seventy percent of they come quite like that do you 647 00:58:09,25 --> 00:58:14,30 really look into what they have so little. They have yet absolutely everything they 648 00:58:15,16 --> 00:58:20,98 are involved and so forth that it's our responsibility action required Yeah right 649 00:58:20,99 --> 00:58:27,40 and it's pretty easy it's your dog take your man are edgier more well I just 650 00:58:27,95 --> 00:58:33,06 you know I mean it seems to be somewhat of an actual problem as I said before. 651 00:58:34,95 --> 00:58:40,61 It's the environment that we're working in today right and right. We have 652 00:58:40,62 --> 00:58:46,67 professionals your police officers our professional Yeah right hand in order to 653 00:58:46,68 --> 00:58:53,68 move forward in this business you have to adapt and that means you have to train to 654 00:58:53,69 --> 00:58:59,22 the local issues and the the national issues you have to anticipate where these 655 00:58:59,23 --> 00:59:03,55 issues are going to come from so fair and impartial policing and police legitimacy 656 00:59:03,56 --> 00:59:03,71 is 657 00:59:03,72 --> 00:59:11,49 a big thing for me we're going to make sure where Donna. Good to. Keep 658 00:59:11,50 --> 00:59:17,74 up as it were I didn't realize were right down that law that. While good show.