WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en 00:00:00.420 --> 00:00:03.949 align:start position:0% hello my name is Ben Joseph I'm a welcoming you to the judge Ben show this is a program on Community TV that used to be Channel 17 for the veterans like myself but now it's Town beating TV so in any event this is a program in which I interview people about subjects that concern the uh the legal justice system in Vermont um I've been doing this for quite a while and I'm delighted today to be doing something that really is so positive my guests today are Harmony bourgeois I I spent some time in France so I'm still pronouncing Bourgeois like Bourgeois yeah yeah and um Court Courtney Whitmore yes yes well that's not French we don't have to fool around with that okay all right I've got it and today we're going to talk about the restorative justice center programs so Harmony we're going to start with you and uh what is the RJC well it's my pleasure so that offers an offer and offer meaning so we're an alternative to the traditional criminal justice system and we give opportunity for people to repair harm that they've caused so the law kind of deals with the criminal aspect and the punishment part and we're focusing on repairing harm in relationships very good and do you have offices in both Franklin and Grand Isle or just in Franklin um we're our main office is located in Franklin but we serve both County okay all right and is I'm hoping that one of the things that we'll accomplish here today will encourage people to use make these programs available in other counties is that happening at all it is in Vermont has a CJC or an RJC mostly every company okay and the list of programs that are offered by the Franklin Grand Isle restorative justice center uh you've got yours this is just if she could just name them and we'll start there yes so um you want me to just go through all the services and then we can kind of talk about them individually so we do a program called pre-trial Services we deal with adult Port diversion well we have a Tamarack program we do we have a whole Youth Services Department we have a special victim coordinator and we we are victim centered so we have victim Services we do a driving with license suspended program a reparative a restorative panel process we also do a re-entry program that Courtney will talk more about later but okay program we have transitional housing a community vocational services to help with employment Community Housing Services and we do Cosa which stands for circles of support and accountability wow good busy so how many people work in your various programs you know um so total staff is 10 including myself and you are one busy person why when I try to call you on the phone I just I I get a cup of coffee I get a comfortable chair and then I'm gonna wait you know you do you do it's remarkable what you do thank you okay and how long have you been with the uh RJC so I believe it'll be my sixth year tomorrow actually wow wow yes happy anniversary and indeed and you so you supervised nine other people nine other people wow and who decides if a person should be referred to the RJC so that will that will vary based on what program we're talking about or girls can come from State's Attorneys probation and parole the judge himself can order people can self-refer so it really depends on what program we're talking about okay and um does that person have to be charged with a criminal offense in order to be referred to your program the majority are in the criminal justice system yes it doesn't have to be but the majority of people we work with yes sir within the criminal justice system okay and um is RJC uses an alternative to court ordered probation so it can be a condition of their probation but it's an alternative process so we're focusing on repairing harm and relationships versus kind of like imposing a punishment yeah well you know I just got to tell you this is I I had a problem with a garage door in my house so I call Overhead Door in Burlington I'm out in North hero so they say well the guy will be there you know in the morning so the morning comes and I go out to the garage and this guy's up on the ladder working so I'm holding the ladder for him and he looks down at me and says hey you're judge Joseph I said yes and I thought oh you know you put me in jail I said no kidding oh yeah the first time you met me you put me on probation and then the second time you met me I'd done something really nasty translate crime of violence and I said well that's enough I'm going to give you nine months to serve and I want you to uh straighten up let's get it done so then he says to me judge I got out eight years ago and since that time I've worked every day I'm married I have a four-year-old kid and he looks at me right in the eye and he says thank you yeah yeah it can work but um often incarceration is is not so sanguine you know it can be difficult pardon it can be traumatic oh amen amen what is the adult diversion services conversion a restorative minor minor charges we can deal with driving license suspended retail theft thinks of those those um in that nature and they will come to us and go through a restorative process and essentially create a contract to repair harm caused that might be various things from you know Reflections apologies restitution if that's owed and once they if they successfully complete which is the goal they have the opportunity to have their charge then dismissed wow we'll let you provide real incentive yeah what's Tamarack Tamarack is similar to court diversion but around mental health or substance use so a lot of the times it's referred to us when the state's attorney or maybe the individual's attorney feels that the underlying cause of the crime might be due to mental health or substance use reasons so we would connect them to supports and help them through a restorative process as well to make amends and do you kind of follow them along so you know whether they're doing it doing the right thing yes wow we would get releases to speak to any counselors and stay connected through that process to make sure they're getting the support they need and again we would create a contract with them as well too to to repair any harm that was caused by the crime wow and uh I'm just going through this list yes thing you gave me here Youth Services what's that um so we have a few different programs within the youth services we would do a restorative process for all of them really they also have court diversion for ages 10 to 21 I believe and we also have the barge program which stands for balanced and restorative justice and that's similar to a reparative panel where kids may be involved already in the in the system and wow yeah and now going down the list victim Services what's that so we have a dedicated victim coordinator we are lucky in that aspect and we are really victim centered in our office so our victim coordinator is reaching out almost in every program here with the exceptional re-entry which Courtney will talk about later but our victim coordinator reached out to any victims involved in these crimes and ask them if they like to participate in the process so they always have a voice and their voice may be no I don't want to participate and that's okay too of course it's up to them um do most people want to participate or are they not inclined oh but but it's a substantial number as we would say I would say a substantial number which is really um to me makes a big difference in the restorative process [Music] um for people to be able to face the individual maybe in some cases or have to hear what that person says about how it's really affected them which the court system doesn't a lot of times give the opportunity so amen yeah amen and people charged with driving with license suspended so we have a great driving license suspended program people can come to our office Alicia's fantastic she helps people she has contacts at the Vermont um the DMV sorry and she will help people with reduced fines and get their license reinstated immediately so they can drive they have to be under a contract and of course all those things but yep I mean a license in Vermont as probably anyone knows is super important to have to be able to get oh amen anywhere I live in North Europe I get it and finally what uh what do you do with restorative panels restorative panels really are for for referrals come can come from a judge they can come from a state's attorney they can come from probation and parole and those are for individuals who are not only charged with the crime but they they've been convicted of the crime so it may be a condition of their probation for example to come to us to have a restorative panel and a restorative panel is really again just about um meaningful dialogue creating an opportunity to repair harm caused by the crime I got to tell you I'm constantly thinking of where restorative justice is is probation with a heart I mean you know really that you're trying to help these people and not just threaten them with incarceration well exactly yeah exactly and the law of course it's what you know the law has the laws of the law whereas I feel like you know what we're trying to do is really really focus on I'm going to say the emotional aspect but it's really about relationships and and and and emotionally dealing with those things that you know people we're all human beings so we all make mistakes and we all need to talk about that in order to move on in my opinion no I understand I understand I'm going to give you a rest uh Courtney your turn kid and you've got several things that you're responsible for in the r RJC uh tradition transitional housing is that right so I'm the director of re-entry services so transitional housing is one of the programs that we have where we have 10 individuals that we can house in our program that are coming out of incarceration in our transitioning into the community in our transitional housing program works with the individuals to connect them with services to support them with whatever their needs are and just to help them get back on their feet and hopefully successfully graduate from our program into their own independent living situation so it's kind of like stepping down back into the community getting your feet underneath you and then moving forward towards independence um what kind of case loads do you have so so for the transitional housing program specifically we have 10 but so that's pretty kind of a fixed number but we also have two other programs that we work with which is the our community vocational services in our community housing services so we have two staff members that are able to go out into the community and work with individuals who either are currently under supervision or have a history because we opened that up a little bit so that we can serve more individuals and those two individuals can help people find employment link with different service providers in the community and hopefully also help them find housing because housing as most of us know right now is incredibly difficult to navigate and hard to find and housing first models have shown that if someone has a safe place to live then they have a better chance of being really pro-social and successful in the community so those caseloads each of our staff member can carry 30 individuals we try to cap it at 30. I don't want to go much higher than that it's a lot of work yeah I understand so we try to cap it at about 30 for community-based individuals that we serve and in each of those programs it's just stunning to me that all this work is being done because it was obviously this is not something that the probation staff could handle I mean this is a and because it's not focused on incarceration but rather success outside of incarceration people are more inclined I think to participate not true well probation officers have a lot on their plates already their caseloads are enormous and one of the amazing things about our organization is how closely we're able to work with probation and parole they send us referrals for people in their caseload where they're like this individual we recognize this individual needs some extra support can you guys work with them so we often get referrals from POS that are noticing that the people they are supervising need extra help and then they come to us and we can do the same we have open communication with there are Grant funders the Department of Corrections so we have very open communication with Probation and Parole and really value them as as partners in the work that we do interest interesting and um what's Cosa support and accountability and this is I see why you'd rather use the initials I know right shorter snappier so this is a program where we have a staff member and they are working with um what they call the core member so this is an individual that typically is someone who's coming out of jail recently and they pair that core member with three um community members volunteers and what they do is is that for one year they meet every week for an hour and they create a community just a small community around this corn member who talks about the things they're struggling with talks about their successes kind of creates an amazing Connection in a pro-social support system for that one kind of person very specifically so that they can feel supported in their time after coming out of incarceration wow yeah it's a great program we've seen amazing results from individuals that are really committed to going to the process and the people who are participating in in this or they their volunteers usually or so the whole process is voluntary right so the core member they can choose if they want to join and have the support so they're also you know voluntarily doing the process and then the three people that are on their team are solely volunteers from our community that have indicated that they want to help other people in this way so our Volunteers in our whole agency not just for Cosa but our whole agency volunteers are so incredibly important for the work that we do we couldn't literally do our work without them and the taxpayers aren't paying the cost sure there's that too yeah well you know I mean gosh um I know I've I've bugged both of you about recidivism and I understand that it's difficult to um to generalize about this but I gather that there is some indication that there's the people who complete these programs have participate in them are less likely to reoffend is that true that's the goal and I would say that that's true I don't have a specific number for you today but I that is most definitely the goal yes and I think in a lot of the work that we do well numbers are important in terms of like getting you know getting that exact number of who's better how much better and there are those numbers out there I think the way that we view success is a little differently in terms of we view success as the connections and the relationships that we've built within our different programs having individuals come back to us and and voice how helpful our work was and and the support that they felt in our program and what they're doing with their lives now that is kind of a real Telltale for us of the success and the difference that we're making within our community so the stories are kind of they're the ones that feel that that give you the feels that what you're doing actually is making making a difference well um is that too much no no I I I'm I'm just so impressed I just think it's great I mean I I started a long time ago and uh much different place uh West Philadelphia is not the sanguine place that Vermont is and uh it was a tough tough scene I suspect it still is um well what I'm what I want to stress is I think that this is beneficial and uh from my days at the Wharton School it's cost effective I I think really for what what goes on here it's it's really so important um what could you just we were going to have another person here today who couldn't make it to talk about your pre-trial Services uh could you describe what you do for pretrial services sure so pre-trial Services is usually a referral made by the judge the state's attorney can request it as well or a person can self-refer and what that is is they're asking for help to get connected to supports throughout the pre-trial the entire pre-trial period people may need help with a variety of things in particular mental health and substance use but you know we help in all facets driver's license there could be a variety of things that people need and we would help them throughout their entire pre-trial period and and we are report back to the attorneys in the courts things are confidential but if people are needing the support and wanting it it's really beneficial to the individual individual and you help people well just just for example you know people get get their driver's license back absolutely that kind of thing yep well you know in Vermont that's so important it really is how can you how can you have a job without a driver's license yep the amazing thing about our organization is if someone comes through the door for pre-trial Services right and they identify all these different needs we can do internal referrals within our own agencies so it kind of becomes like a One-Stop shop they can go and get help with their license through Alicia through the DLS program they can get help with finding employment with Becca for our employment services or housing with Michelle so we're able to kind of help address whatever the barriers or the needs are for the individual that comes through and if we can't do it we have amazing Community Partners who can well and these are the kinds of things that the the defense attorney can't do or it's very unlikely to provide is that right time it's time right so so their defense attorney is really there to focus on their specific charge and the legal system um a lot of times again I'll just say individuals are a lot of times in the criminal justice system because of all these various other barriers that are that are a hindrance really so if we can address other things that are needed besides the specific focusing on the specific crime you're going to make a huge difference oh I I'm well you know I'm just I'm just so sorry I didn't have this available to me yeah um earlier on in my career this is really great stuff well um just just to get back to the case loads how many what are the case loads in you in your program where great for staff great that we have that much need but so we do have um my staff uh Becca who does our employment services she can go up to 30 so she has you know she can have a good sized caseload and then Michelle who does our housing also can have a case load of 30 in the community and you have a need for for more service providers sure well I I didn't I didn't mean to be just to sound Preposterous but oh yeah I mean I think the I think that the need is there and I think with any kind of service we want to do more I think we always want to do more um is we're just kind of we can do what we have the time for at this point um but we're always willing and super interested to learn different ways that we can introduce restorative justice into other areas in our community and what that could look like so I think we're always interested in in taking on more as long as we can balance that you know safely within our organization well I used to hear people talk about money talks um so where do you get your money so so we are strictly Grant funded we have Grant from the Attorney General's office the ago we have a grant from Doc the Department of Corrections and we have a grant from DCF for our youth Department those are base level grants we also do get some Town Appropriations if we go to you know select board meetings explain what we do some towns are willing to put in their voter budget a little bit of money for us and of course donations um but yeah it's difficult it can be difficult right as Courtney was mentioning we get um overwhelmed sometimes with cases and and it's hard to kind of put a cap on that because we want to help we know we're making a difference we want to keep doing it but we are limited I hate to say by money but that's the reality sometimes is you know we have a staff and and you can't overwork your staff either to the point of you know so yeah but you're you know you're saving the community a lot of money it does save the community a lot of money if you look at what it costs to go through the court system or what it costs to incarcerate an individual versus our programs it's it's astronomical savings that's pretty good that's pretty no really that's really important well um so how do you judge the success rate of your individual programs you have some method that you use or you just plug away um a lot of times we just plug away of course we have our reporting and our data that goes to our grant funders I will say diversion Court diversion um for example is about an 85 to 90 percent success rate so um you know it varies though it's hard to kind of nail that down specifically to as Courtney mentioned success to us might mean something totally different than the data so you know people come a long way and and yep you want to comment on that sure I mean I think that as I mentioned earlier this accessory is based on the stories and I think that when we have individuals who have come into our program have just left incarceration they create relationships with us they stay with us for a year or longer and then we get invited to their weddings that has happened so we have these amazing opportunities to create relationships with people and I think our successes is based in that not necessarily the data but the data's the data is good too well no I think that that the that the friendships are really important and it sounds kind of and it's not profound but a lot of these people are on their own particularly now God knows well I will just say that's that's the point exactly right so when people enter when people are in isolation or alone they cannot change I mean they're not going to make effective change in their life if they're isolated if you can offer community and support that's when you're really gonna gonna see the success well that certainly has not been uh characteristic of probation supervision that's difficult right I mean they they're focused on well I just think with the probation supervision is they want them to do better but it's always the thought in mind that if you don't I'll put you in jail and that kind of kills the relationship yeah I mean they have a certain job that they have to do right in a certain capacity that they can do it do it in and that's why they partner so great with us because we're we're on that other spectrum that can focus on different things maybe than they can focus on or have the bandwidth to focus on and I think with the Justice reinvestment act that has come through I mean they're looking at different interventions that they can use that isn't the end result being just go to jail they they recognize that sending somebody back to jail doesn't create any kind of lasting change and in fact sometimes it just creates more harm oh please absolutely so it's it's amazing to see the Department of Corrections looking at different interventions different partners and different ways to kind of meet the needs of the people that they're supervising so it's been really amazing to see kind of that shift be happening and we're super happy to be a part of it and to partner with people who are who are interested in looking at it in that way well I'm getting the five minute sign flashed at me so I wanted to say is there anything else you'd like to add um just again we are Community involved we encourage volunteers if anyone's interested in volunteering they can reach out to the Justice Center Franklin Grinnell restorative justice center if you're interested in any of the programs we mentioned we welcome we welcome it is there a phone number sure 802. 524-7006 seven zero zero six okay okay so if you wanna if someone's out there and wants more information or is interested in this absolutely for a friend or someone in the family 802-524-7006 okay and any closing thoughts no we just thank you and thank you for having us for the opportunity well I appreciate what you're doing I think it's it's been a long time coming and I think it's going to make a big big difference and how the system operates thank you all for watching I'm going to try to have this thing distributed through the various uh town meeting TV or the equivalent throughout the state because I think this is something that could be a used universally so long thanks again 00:00:03.949 --> 00:00:07.309 align:start position:0% hello my name is Ben Joseph I'm a welcoming you to the judge Ben show this is a program on Community TV that used to be Channel 17 for the veterans like myself but now it's Town beating TV so in any event this is a program in which I interview people about subjects that concern the uh the legal justice system in Vermont um I've been doing this for quite a while and I'm delighted today to be doing something that really is so positive my guests today are Harmony bourgeois I I spent some time in France so I'm still pronouncing Bourgeois like Bourgeois yeah yeah and um Court Courtney Whitmore yes yes well that's not French we don't have to fool around with that okay all right I've got it and today we're going to talk about the restorative justice center programs so Harmony we're going to start with you and uh what is the RJC well it's my pleasure so that offers an offer and offer meaning so we're an alternative to the traditional criminal justice system and we give opportunity for people to repair harm that they've caused so the law kind of deals with the criminal aspect and the punishment part and we're focusing on repairing harm in relationships very good and do you have offices in both Franklin and Grand Isle or just in Franklin um we're our main office is located in Franklin but we serve both County okay all right and is I'm hoping that one of the things that we'll accomplish here today will encourage people to use make these programs available in other counties is that happening at all it is in Vermont has a CJC or an RJC mostly every company okay and the list of programs that are offered by the Franklin Grand Isle restorative justice center uh you've got yours this is just if she could just name them and we'll start there yes so um you want me to just go through all the services and then we can kind of talk about them individually so we do a program called pre-trial Services we deal with adult Port diversion well we have a Tamarack program we do we have a whole Youth Services Department we have a special victim coordinator and we we are victim centered so we have victim Services we do a driving with license suspended program a reparative a restorative panel process we also do a re-entry program that Courtney will talk more about later but okay program we have transitional housing a community vocational services to help with employment Community Housing Services and we do Cosa which stands for circles of support and accountability wow good busy so how many people work in your various programs you know um so total staff is 10 including myself and you are one busy person why when I try to call you on the phone I just I I get a cup of coffee I get a comfortable chair and then I'm gonna wait you know you do you do it's remarkable what you do thank you okay and how long have you been with the uh RJC so I believe it'll be my sixth year tomorrow actually wow wow yes happy anniversary and indeed and you so you supervised nine other people nine other people wow and who decides if a person should be referred to the RJC so that will that will vary based on what program we're talking about or girls can come from State's Attorneys probation and parole the judge himself can order people can self-refer so it really depends on what program we're talking about okay and um does that person have to be charged with a criminal offense in order to be referred to your program the majority are in the criminal justice system yes it doesn't have to be but the majority of people we work with yes sir within the criminal justice system okay and um is RJC uses an alternative to court ordered probation so it can be a condition of their probation but it's an alternative process so we're focusing on repairing harm and relationships versus kind of like imposing a punishment yeah well you know I just got to tell you this is I I had a problem with a garage door in my house so I call Overhead Door in Burlington I'm out in North hero so they say well the guy will be there you know in the morning so the morning comes and I go out to the garage and this guy's up on the ladder working so I'm holding the ladder for him and he looks down at me and says hey you're judge Joseph I said yes and I thought oh you know you put me in jail I said no kidding oh yeah the first time you met me you put me on probation and then the second time you met me I'd done something really nasty translate crime of violence and I said well that's enough I'm going to give you nine months to serve and I want you to uh straighten up let's get it done so then he says to me judge I got out eight years ago and since that time I've worked every day I'm married I have a four-year-old kid and he looks at me right in the eye and he says thank you yeah yeah it can work but um often incarceration is is not so sanguine you know it can be difficult pardon it can be traumatic oh amen amen what is the adult diversion services conversion a restorative minor minor charges we can deal with driving license suspended retail theft thinks of those those um in that nature and they will come to us and go through a restorative process and essentially create a contract to repair harm caused that might be various things from you know Reflections apologies restitution if that's owed and once they if they successfully complete which is the goal they have the opportunity to have their charge then dismissed wow we'll let you provide real incentive yeah what's Tamarack Tamarack is similar to court diversion but around mental health or substance use so a lot of the times it's referred to us when the state's attorney or maybe the individual's attorney feels that the underlying cause of the crime might be due to mental health or substance use reasons so we would connect them to supports and help them through a restorative process as well to make amends and do you kind of follow them along so you know whether they're doing it doing the right thing yes wow we would get releases to speak to any counselors and stay connected through that process to make sure they're getting the support they need and again we would create a contract with them as well too to to repair any harm that was caused by the crime wow and uh I'm just going through this list yes thing you gave me here Youth Services what's that um so we have a few different programs within the youth services we would do a restorative process for all of them really they also have court diversion for ages 10 to 21 I believe and we also have the barge program which stands for balanced and restorative justice and that's similar to a reparative panel where kids may be involved already in the in the system and wow yeah and now going down the list victim Services what's that so we have a dedicated victim coordinator we are lucky in that aspect and we are really victim centered in our office so our victim coordinator is reaching out almost in every program here with the exceptional re-entry which Courtney will talk about later but our victim coordinator reached out to any victims involved in these crimes and ask them if they like to participate in the process so they always have a voice and their voice may be no I don't want to participate and that's okay too of course it's up to them um do most people want to participate or are they not inclined oh but but it's a substantial number as we would say I would say a substantial number which is really um to me makes a big difference in the restorative process [Music] um for people to be able to face the individual maybe in some cases or have to hear what that person says about how it's really affected them which the court system doesn't a lot of times give the opportunity so amen yeah amen and people charged with driving with license suspended so we have a great driving license suspended program people can come to our office Alicia's fantastic she helps people she has contacts at the Vermont um the DMV sorry and she will help people with reduced fines and get their license reinstated immediately so they can drive they have to be under a contract and of course all those things but yep I mean a license in Vermont as probably anyone knows is super important to have to be able to get oh amen anywhere I live in North Europe I get it and finally what uh what do you do with restorative panels restorative panels really are for for referrals come can come from a judge they can come from a state's attorney they can come from probation and parole and those are for individuals who are not only charged with the crime but they they've been convicted of the crime so it may be a condition of their probation for example to come to us to have a restorative panel and a restorative panel is really again just about um meaningful dialogue creating an opportunity to repair harm caused by the crime I got to tell you I'm constantly thinking of where restorative justice is is probation with a heart I mean you know really that you're trying to help these people and not just threaten them with incarceration well exactly yeah exactly and the law of course it's what you know the law has the laws of the law whereas I feel like you know what we're trying to do is really really focus on I'm going to say the emotional aspect but it's really about relationships and and and and emotionally dealing with those things that you know people we're all human beings so we all make mistakes and we all need to talk about that in order to move on in my opinion no I understand I understand I'm going to give you a rest uh Courtney your turn kid and you've got several things that you're responsible for in the r RJC uh tradition transitional housing is that right so I'm the director of re-entry services so transitional housing is one of the programs that we have where we have 10 individuals that we can house in our program that are coming out of incarceration in our transitioning into the community in our transitional housing program works with the individuals to connect them with services to support them with whatever their needs are and just to help them get back on their feet and hopefully successfully graduate from our program into their own independent living situation so it's kind of like stepping down back into the community getting your feet underneath you and then moving forward towards independence um what kind of case loads do you have so so for the transitional housing program specifically we have 10 but so that's pretty kind of a fixed number but we also have two other programs that we work with which is the our community vocational services in our community housing services so we have two staff members that are able to go out into the community and work with individuals who either are currently under supervision or have a history because we opened that up a little bit so that we can serve more individuals and those two individuals can help people find employment link with different service providers in the community and hopefully also help them find housing because housing as most of us know right now is incredibly difficult to navigate and hard to find and housing first models have shown that if someone has a safe place to live then they have a better chance of being really pro-social and successful in the community so those caseloads each of our staff member can carry 30 individuals we try to cap it at 30. I don't want to go much higher than that it's a lot of work yeah I understand so we try to cap it at about 30 for community-based individuals that we serve and in each of those programs it's just stunning to me that all this work is being done because it was obviously this is not something that the probation staff could handle I mean this is a and because it's not focused on incarceration but rather success outside of incarceration people are more inclined I think to participate not true well probation officers have a lot on their plates already their caseloads are enormous and one of the amazing things about our organization is how closely we're able to work with probation and parole they send us referrals for people in their caseload where they're like this individual we recognize this individual needs some extra support can you guys work with them so we often get referrals from POS that are noticing that the people they are supervising need extra help and then they come to us and we can do the same we have open communication with there are Grant funders the Department of Corrections so we have very open communication with Probation and Parole and really value them as as partners in the work that we do interest interesting and um what's Cosa support and accountability and this is I see why you'd rather use the initials I know right shorter snappier so this is a program where we have a staff member and they are working with um what they call the core member so this is an individual that typically is someone who's coming out of jail recently and they pair that core member with three um community members volunteers and what they do is is that for one year they meet every week for an hour and they create a community just a small community around this corn member who talks about the things they're struggling with talks about their successes kind of creates an amazing Connection in a pro-social support system for that one kind of person very specifically so that they can feel supported in their time after coming out of incarceration wow yeah it's a great program we've seen amazing results from individuals that are really committed to going to the process and the people who are participating in in this or they their volunteers usually or so the whole process is voluntary right so the core member they can choose if they want to join and have the support so they're also you know voluntarily doing the process and then the three people that are on their team are solely volunteers from our community that have indicated that they want to help other people in this way so our Volunteers in our whole agency not just for Cosa but our whole agency volunteers are so incredibly important for the work that we do we couldn't literally do our work without them and the taxpayers aren't paying the cost sure there's that too yeah well you know I mean gosh um I know I've I've bugged both of you about recidivism and I understand that it's difficult to um to generalize about this but I gather that there is some indication that there's the people who complete these programs have participate in them are less likely to reoffend is that true that's the goal and I would say that that's true I don't have a specific number for you today but I that is most definitely the goal yes and I think in a lot of the work that we do well numbers are important in terms of like getting you know getting that exact number of who's better how much better and there are those numbers out there I think the way that we view success is a little differently in terms of we view success as the connections and the relationships that we've built within our different programs having individuals come back to us and and voice how helpful our work was and and the support that they felt in our program and what they're doing with their lives now that is kind of a real Telltale for us of the success and the difference that we're making within our community so the stories are kind of they're the ones that feel that that give you the feels that what you're doing actually is making making a difference well um is that too much no no I I I'm I'm just so impressed I just think it's great I mean I I started a long time ago and uh much different place uh West Philadelphia is not the sanguine place that Vermont is and uh it was a tough tough scene I suspect it still is um well what I'm what I want to stress is I think that this is beneficial and uh from my days at the Wharton School it's cost effective I I think really for what what goes on here it's it's really so important um what could you just we were going to have another person here today who couldn't make it to talk about your pre-trial Services uh could you describe what you do for pretrial services sure so pre-trial Services is usually a referral made by the judge the state's attorney can request it as well or a person can self-refer and what that is is they're asking for help to get connected to supports throughout the pre-trial the entire pre-trial period people may need help with a variety of things in particular mental health and substance use but you know we help in all facets driver's license there could be a variety of things that people need and we would help them throughout their entire pre-trial period and and we are report back to the attorneys in the courts things are confidential but if people are needing the support and wanting it it's really beneficial to the individual individual and you help people well just just for example you know people get get their driver's license back absolutely that kind of thing yep well you know in Vermont that's so important it really is how can you how can you have a job without a driver's license yep the amazing thing about our organization is if someone comes through the door for pre-trial Services right and they identify all these different needs we can do internal referrals within our own agencies so it kind of becomes like a One-Stop shop they can go and get help with their license through Alicia through the DLS program they can get help with finding employment with Becca for our employment services or housing with Michelle so we're able to kind of help address whatever the barriers or the needs are for the individual that comes through and if we can't do it we have amazing Community Partners who can well and these are the kinds of things that the the defense attorney can't do or it's very unlikely to provide is that right time it's time right so so their defense attorney is really there to focus on their specific charge and the legal system um a lot of times again I'll just say individuals are a lot of times in the criminal justice system because of all these various other barriers that are that are a hindrance really so if we can address other things that are needed besides the specific focusing on the specific crime you're going to make a huge difference oh I I'm well you know I'm just I'm just so sorry I didn't have this available to me yeah um earlier on in my career this is really great stuff well um just just to get back to the case loads how many what are the case loads in you in your program where great for staff great that we have that much need but so we do have um my staff uh Becca who does our employment services she can go up to 30 so she has you know she can have a good sized caseload and then Michelle who does our housing also can have a case load of 30 in the community and you have a need for for more service providers sure well I I didn't I didn't mean to be just to sound Preposterous but oh yeah I mean I think the I think that the need is there and I think with any kind of service we want to do more I think we always want to do more um is we're just kind of we can do what we have the time for at this point um but we're always willing and super interested to learn different ways that we can introduce restorative justice into other areas in our community and what that could look like so I think we're always interested in in taking on more as long as we can balance that you know safely within our organization well I used to hear people talk about money talks um so where do you get your money so so we are strictly Grant funded we have Grant from the Attorney General's office the ago we have a grant from Doc the Department of Corrections and we have a grant from DCF for our youth Department those are base level grants we also do get some Town Appropriations if we go to you know select board meetings explain what we do some towns are willing to put in their voter budget a little bit of money for us and of course donations um but yeah it's difficult it can be difficult right as Courtney was mentioning we get um overwhelmed sometimes with cases and and it's hard to kind of put a cap on that because we want to help we know we're making a difference we want to keep doing it but we are limited I hate to say by money but that's the reality sometimes is you know we have a staff and and you can't overwork your staff either to the point of you know so yeah but you're you know you're saving the community a lot of money it does save the community a lot of money if you look at what it costs to go through the court system or what it costs to incarcerate an individual versus our programs it's it's astronomical savings that's pretty good that's pretty no really that's really important well um so how do you judge the success rate of your individual programs you have some method that you use or you just plug away um a lot of times we just plug away of course we have our reporting and our data that goes to our grant funders I will say diversion Court diversion um for example is about an 85 to 90 percent success rate so um you know it varies though it's hard to kind of nail that down specifically to as Courtney mentioned success to us might mean something totally different than the data so you know people come a long way and and yep you want to comment on that sure I mean I think that as I mentioned earlier this accessory is based on the stories and I think that when we have individuals who have come into our program have just left incarceration they create relationships with us they stay with us for a year or longer and then we get invited to their weddings that has happened so we have these amazing opportunities to create relationships with people and I think our successes is based in that not necessarily the data but the data's the data is good too well no I think that that the that the friendships are really important and it sounds kind of and it's not profound but a lot of these people are on their own particularly now God knows well I will just say that's that's the point exactly right so when people enter when people are in isolation or alone they cannot change I mean they're not going to make effective change in their life if they're isolated if you can offer community and support that's when you're really gonna gonna see the success well that certainly has not been uh characteristic of probation supervision that's difficult right I mean they they're focused on well I just think with the probation supervision is they want them to do better but it's always the thought in mind that if you don't I'll put you in jail and that kind of kills the relationship yeah I mean they have a certain job that they have to do right in a certain capacity that they can do it do it in and that's why they partner so great with us because we're we're on that other spectrum that can focus on different things maybe than they can focus on or have the bandwidth to focus on and I think with the Justice reinvestment act that has come through I mean they're looking at different interventions that they can use that isn't the end result being just go to jail they they recognize that sending somebody back to jail doesn't create any kind of lasting change and in fact sometimes it just creates more harm oh please absolutely so it's it's amazing to see the Department of Corrections looking at different interventions different partners and different ways to kind of meet the needs of the people that they're supervising so it's been really amazing to see kind of that shift be happening and we're super happy to be a part of it and to partner with people who are who are interested in looking at it in that way well I'm getting the five minute sign flashed at me so I wanted to say is there anything else you'd like to add um just again we are Community involved we encourage volunteers if anyone's interested in volunteering they can reach out to the Justice Center Franklin Grinnell restorative justice center if you're interested in any of the programs we mentioned we welcome we welcome it is there a phone number sure 802. 524-7006 seven zero zero six okay okay so if you wanna if someone's out there and wants more information or is interested in this absolutely for a friend or someone in the family 802-524-7006 okay and any closing thoughts no we just thank you and thank you for having us for the opportunity well I appreciate what you're doing I think it's it's been a long time coming and I think it's going to make a big big difference and how the system operates thank you all for watching I'm going to try to have this thing distributed through the various uh town meeting TV or the equivalent throughout the state because I think this is something that could be a used universally so long thanks again 00:00:07.309 --> 00:00:10.970 align:start position:0% 00:00:10.970 --> 00:00:13.610 align:start position:0% 00:00:13.610 --> 00:00:17.930 align:start position:0% 00:00:17.930 --> 00:00:20.390 align:start position:0% 00:00:20.390 --> 00:00:22.250 align:start position:0% 00:00:22.250 --> 00:00:24.710 align:start position:0% 00:00:24.710 --> 00:00:28.250 align:start position:0% 00:00:28.250 --> 00:00:29.870 align:start position:0% 00:00:29.870 --> 00:00:29.880 align:start position:0% 00:00:29.880 --> 00:00:30.650 align:start 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