WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en 00:00:09.840 --> 00:00:12.230 align:start position:0% with uh 22 case in front of us um have that as a first if not then um Sarah did Issue some minutes um and can I get a motion to approve those minutes so moved and a second and uh any discussion or amendments I thought they looked okay but I uh if anybody picked up on something else that needs to be tweaked um speak up if not we have a motion in a second uh to approve the minutes all in favor all right Paul uh yes Mason yes Jen yes David yes and Kevin yes all right unanimous all right good um so now we're on to uh the first case which is the continuation of notice of intent for mediation of contaminated soil and Bank stabilization proposed work to occur within the bag Riverfront land under water and bordering land subject to flooding all on the Mill River and this is a continuation from a prior meeting where we were making considerable progress and Sarah has roughed out a proposed set of additional conditions that we would want to build into an order of conditions so I hope everybody's had a chance to review those um and so with that I'll turn to the applicant and say anything you want to bring us up to date on or by way of introduction or speak to the proposed conditions that Sarah has constructed uh Barry Fogle I'm here as you can see with alanverson the applicant Lions Whitten is the licensed site professional and Josh charette our Wetland scientist how's everybody happy New Year yeah um we are we appreciate having had a chance to see that list that Sarah put together that was quite good um we have nothing more to provide in the way of information although um foreign probably in your draft orders or in your order do you list the different you know you have the revised plans we did send in a um invasives removal for the Japanese knotweed I don't know if you wanted to make a reference to that yeah so uh this these are just the attachment pieces of it the order itself will have a list of all of the relevant uh plan sets and I did distribute both the revised set and the invasive plan to the commission so that that letter got around as well you said yeah you're good um you know there was probably just I mean the only I don't know if it's something you do as a standard thing but in the introduction the third paragraph you mentioned 310 CMR 10.21 through 60 and because this is Inland we would normally it would be 10.51 um but I'll check that I might have just hit the wrong yeah no that's my keyboard unless sea level rise gets a whole lot greater hopefully we're not dealing with 10.21 um I don't think there's anything else the only um one thing Alan and I exchanged an email on today was in terms of the fence whether it would be um you know in segments where there would be areas where this fence would be higher or the gallon was there something about that you wanted to address or uh yes I I would um it's it appears from the way what is at section 34 is written it says any fencing so I would take that to refer to the entire length of the fence of the chain link fence along Riverside Drive um it would be I think unnecessary and um duplicative and fairly labor-intensive to cut the bottom six inches off the entire house if we did it um uh I don't even know if that was the intent if I would suggest maybe do it every fourth panel have a six inch by three foot length that would be eliminated to allow Little Critters to pass under it um yeah I think the fence has to rest on the ground I believe or on the bottom rails so to cut the whole thing off might destabilize the fence so I that if we did it every fourth panel six inches high by three feet long I think that would accomplish the objective how do uh Commissioners feel by the way I have been I'm on the phone now because I've been disconnected by my computer again I have to get a diagnosis here about what's going on but anybody uh uh I will I might I how long are the each panel between the vertical posts the 12 feet yeah I would typically more than four feet I I honestly don't I haven't measured but if if four feet in the middle were cut off that would leave something on either end I would think to support the chain link fence right um and there are others who know more about the behavior of of small animals than I um but I would think uh that maybe every other or every third panel so that if uh you know possum skunk raccoon whatever is bumping up they'll kind of do a little searching but if if they have to go 60 80 feet to find the next hole that might be a little bit of an obstacle so I I and I'm not sure about that I'm not knowledgeable about the animal behavior that way but uh every fourth panel depending on the length of the panels uh every fourth panel might uh not quite accomplish what we're trying to with small animals I would guess that they're I would guess that they're probably eight to ten feet long so 10 feet is typical 10 feet is typical okay yeah so that would be every 40 feet there'd be a opening is that too much too long I wouldn't think so so let's call it every three panels that'd be I think that would be okay yeah that would that would be fine with me good okay um other um questions or observations about from the applicant or from Commissioners about the draft plan um there are one or two items Sarah which you were proposing but encouraging that we have a discussion um during this meeting rather than and I'm I apologize but I'm having trouble even calling up on my computer because it's disconnected again calling the document uh your attachment a up on my computer so I did not print it out uh but there was one thing that you said should there should be some additional discussion of just forgetting which item that was one of those was the requirements for plantings yes including some higher canopy uh eventually higher canopy level plants not just uh shrubs and ground cover yeah so uh as proposed in the um in the application documents it was indicated that natural long-term repopulation would be sufficient to provide vegetative cover but that would really limit the species to those found on site um so making some selective plantings would some Opera would create some opportunities for shading and food and habitat and more plant diversity but you know rather than just leaving the specifics of the approval of the planting plant completely up to staff it would be great to specify you know a minimum number of species of each type and that wouldn't since the uh what we're trying to accomplish here is a a net Improvement um uh increasing the diversity of species of plants would would represent their Improvement and there had been some concern even though uh this is all on the North Shore and therefore the ship big shade trees uh are not as effective at creating cool water for the fishery as they would be on the South Shore but still if it had at least a uh a few substantial you know maybe 15 20 years from now substantial uh upper canopy trees on the North Shore that that would and especially as Sarah says that they were adding to the species diversity of that area Forest that I think that would be a desirable thing given the um the language that Sarah put in is planting shall include it overstory trees and understory shrub species and shall include low height species within the GEOS cell area and all tree species will conform to those included in the city's approved tree species list so that's pretty good yeah that sounds pretty good if I could make the point I'm not sure that we can plant in the geocell area the geocell is there to stabilize the soil and to cut it open to allow planting in it that's that would be very either on the bank of the river or at the right over the top of the where the bank will be so the the response to oto's comments indicated that larger height tree species would be an issue within the geocell area because they you know eventually could fall and damage the bank but didn't specify that any plantings within the geocell area would create a concern yeah I was gonna try to invite Lions to um speculate so to speak on where might there be areas in the project area if you will and not in the in the stockpile and not on the slope where larger vegetation could be established is there are there places that you can think of in the work area so to speak that for the affected project area where that could be encouraged without disrupting anything certainly at the perimeter of the Wetland replication area um there could be larger species that is outside the GSL um could have some small holes in the geocell uh for foreign taller than a person you'd want it you'd want it to be a low height shrub and um we really don't want anything tall growing on the slope yeah and and the importance of that specific language was to create a little bit of flexibility to make it clear that a large tree species wouldn't be required in the geocell but just make it so that there wouldn't be an area that's completely devoid of native plants and may just turn into you know big invasive mess I I actually thought that wasn't a bad condition if it had one tweak which was actually rather than prior to construction that it be after construction because I thought that it would sort of like we'll know it we'll know where things can be planted when the whole thing is done and we see what's to where the limits of the Geo cell end up and we can do an as built post construction of the geocell and of the slope stabilization and then we can get a landscaping plan put together that says how about putting planting some particular species here and there so guessing in a sense prior to construction would be hopeful whereas after the work is done that's a good opportunity I think for Lions his team and the contractor to figure out and you know where can we put this stuff you know does that make sense to sort of switch it from rather than prior to construction to after yeah I mean so that sounds reasonable yeah the reason for requiring the plan prior to construction is typically because so many applicants will just never do it otherwise um but in due to the unknowns of this project it does seem to it's more appropriate to have have it afterwards um but I I would just want to make sure that it's done you know immediately following the construction of the Lions area so Sarah yeah um and the commission there's an area um on either side of the ivw that is behind the maintenance Access Road um on the Riverside Drive side of the maintenance access road where during construction we will selectively place um log mats for the stabilizers of the crane and and um the excavator um but they're um Road word away from the river from um where the the extent of the gso and and those places those would be good places to to have plantings um they'll have more water and they're not in the gso and they're not in the stockpile [Music] um and they'll have minimal disturbance because the log mats will be there periodically but it's it's the strip where we're not taking trees down um and at least on the I'll call it the southern side of the ivw there really aren't trees there anyway uh right now um so it'll be in a place where a couple of trees could be replaced it's not that big it's kind of long and skinny but it so I think Sarah if we if the condition were changed to say you know following immediately following construction as you said I think that's the right word um and and in order to obtain a certificate of compliance and then blah blah blah you know but I think I think making it a immediately following completion of the geocell and so forth um would would work Allen right I mean sort of the timing of it makes more sense than trying to guess at it right and immediately following assumes that it's in a time of year that would allow plantings I meant for submission of a plan so it would it would be okay the applicant shall provide a plan and that that would also that's another reason why the timing is important because depending on where things finish up the plan might be with the spring planting season this shall be done or but if it's completed in July you know June there might be the fall planting plant this also goes with the timing of the invasive management of applying the foliar to the knotweed and getting rid of that before planting new stuff in that area too so they kind of merge those two factors so that seems fine I I would just recommend that the commission included a minimum number of each type of planting you know be it understory shrubs stories and larger trees just to so that you know if the applicant comes back with a plan that has you know six plants on it that I have guidance to point to to say that that's not sufficient okay yeah do you have a suggestions here for the uh the right number and uh with you know Hardwoods or something that will eventually be in the 40 50 plus vertical uh range I mean I think we could we could leave the individual species for the most part up to the applicant you know there's a lot of different types of trees and shrubs that would be appropriate for that site and it would and would make sense um you know including things that are creeping um northward in their range with climate change that would be great to include um put it you know at least the minimum number and there's 96 large trees being removed you don't have a handle on the types of shrubs um but you know working from that would make sense and um lions and burying out we don't do we know how many what the dbh of those trees is I know we don't require that it'd be measured because it doesn't need any zoning relief but that would if you know it that would provide some guidance there's a few big ones um I think that you know the standard language and Alan don't get upset but you know it's typical from this kind of a condition to say following the complete you know immediately following the completion of construction the plan shall be submitted for review and consultation with the commission and its agent you know so we can figure this out yeah at the time um you know but acknowledging that it's something that the applicant and new folks will work out and and I think I might add uh that the commission uh could conduct a site visit at that stage where you know most of the work has been done now it's time to be planting and we could be also part of that decision making about uh it looks like you need 15 substantial trees of such and such uh ultimate uh height or uh growth whereas right now I feel like we'd be just guessing uh yes without actually walking through the property again but that sounds fine because I would be concerned it's a fairly um limited area as lions referred to we can only squeeze in we're only going to be able to squeeze in a certain number of trees so yeah it makes sense yep that makes sense all right any other of the proposed conditions that need additional discussion uh before we finally closed the hearing I thought that never happened no there were no other none of those other thank you Sarah for drafting it but there were no other items in there that we had any questions about I was clean shaving before we started [Laughter] all right well if if uh if nothing else uh Sarah anything else you uh want to have the commission or pine on before you uh just capturing and recording the the ultimate order of conditions uh I I just want to make clear that the the finding that the commission needs to make is that the entirety of the work reference will qualify it as a limited project and that that opens the door for the the portions of the work that are um that don't meet the performance standards which are pretty significant in in this case due to the nature of the work um and then just public comment after that and then I if the commission is happy with these conditions I think we're all set okay um and as I read uh section and members it ended with a queue uh as I read through all all of that uh seemed like yeah I'm confident in saying that this uh can meet the definition of a limited project and so the rest of the commission agree with that yes any anybody who doesn't since I can't see a screen with all your faces at this point I would agree all right then uh before we uh close the hearing are there any comments from members of the public if not just one small thing on number 35 um about halfway down Sarah it's to what extent not an extend I tried raising my hand to work uh Ricketts in here uh next to the river about halfway down which is I'm not sure what North and South sides the river runs north to south but on the project side uh that probably could take some sycamores right next to the river oh and that might be one place to uh to plant stuff there's some similar you'll see it if you've come out here and look at it because there's already some Sycamore wow also if we could um keep the tree similar to what's there now uh that would be nice uh experimenting with Evergreens and stuff given uh how quickly they seem to die these days seem to be a little bit more dicey well in that part of the planting plan as we've just discussed would be completed following most of the construction what I actually plan to do is to walk the property again prior to the start of construction and take a few photos so that I can anchor in my memory uh what's there now that we can include uh in our thinking about what we think ought to be created as a an eventual as built of uh the the the the trees and foliage that we want to have in the eventual as build plan so um but I think yes getting down to those kinds of specifics exactly where and of what variety well that as we just discussed that'll happen at the end of the project rather than right now yeah okay thank you and this is in the nature of a question but the plan specify a four foot vinyl covered chain link fence and it was unclear whether that was going to replace the current um six foot chain link fence that is now around the property and nice if it did that way um well I sent a letter about so I don't repeat it but I just want to get a clarification on that I don't recall uh we call that provision in the plan uh four foot uh vinyl coated but uh so someone on the applicant uh Team want to speak to that I um I just don't recall that piece of the uh of the plan set there's a new this is Lions Winton there's uh a new fence to be installed from Valley Home Improvement along the river side of the stockpile and that is the would be a continuation of the four foot vinyl fence that's behind Valley Home Improvement in the cutlery building now the remaining fence along Riverside Drive is a currently a security fence to keep people out and right that fence is not proposed to be changed other than the holes that we talked about at the beginning of the hearing but yep okay okay um one last thing to add um applicant team I'll just need a revised uh noi page that includes the riverfront area disturbance now that the access Drive is supposed to be permanent so I don't need the whole noi just just that one sheet so I have an accurate figure to be able to issue the order yeah get to that okay any other comments before we close Sarah can I just ask one question about the requirement that um let's see the the trees should have three growing Seasons it's going to be fairly easy for us to get plants trees to survive where they're going to go because it's a fairly wet area I don't think it'll take us take you three years three growing Seasons to see that they're successful and what that would do is keep the um certificate of compliance in advance for an additional entire year when it's already clear that they're growing fine could is there any possibility of shortening that to two two growing seasons our usual practice in such cases it is for three um do you really uh bring fall spring or fall spring fall as three seasons three growing Seasons uh we would take three no we we would uh be talking about um pretty much annual review a complete uh growing season would be from Spring to freeze that would be that would be a single growing season and normally when we have these kinds of replantings that we do require that 75 percent survival after three of growing seasons so three calendar years so that thing yeah so that ends up being three calendar years since spring is from our growing season is from Spring to freeze well all right if that's standard Ally I think that's that's what they do right yeah in situations where an applicant needs to demonstrate that you know the the critical pieces of the project have been completed we could always do a partial certificate of compliance and and leave it right yeah we have done partial situations okay all right um so can I get a motion to close the hearing I moved Mason with his beard uh is there a second I'll second it we don't want a spirit any longer and uh any uh discussion um if not all in favor so this is just for closing the hearing Paul yes Mason yes Jen yes and Kevin yes all right the hearing is finally closed uh then we have a quite substantial uh order of conditions both including standard and special conditions for this project uh any further discussion on that or can I get someone to make a motion to Grant this order of conditions almost again a second very good and a second all right uh all in favor Sarah roll call Paul yes Mason yes Jen yes and Kevin yes indeed all right unanimous David I didn't I didn't forget you but right I know okay all right unanimous thank you all right well good luck to all of you and uh we'll be staying in touch and um like I said I plan to go out there before the project starts and refresh my memory and take some photos so uh I can do a before and after once the we get together for that part of the process of uh the final planting plan oh all right thank you thank you very much thank you all right we see Mr Whitney the railroad show weeks all right well um uh we did minutes and we did uh this uh case and finally moved it along um any other business before the commission Sarah uh I I don't really have much at this point uh we were able to close on um on a piece of property in the Broderick Fitzgerald Lake Greenway which is exciting you approved it several years ago it was a sort of a long time coming um but I can send you all a map of that one just to show where we're at but uh Fitzgerald lake has gotten quite large uh over a thousand acres now yes wow that's great and instead of buggy metal road to the sort of Northeast uh it is so this one was it was sort of an in-holding off of um Coles Meadow Road this I don't know if anybody saw the papers that the dorkle project so this was oh she's searching I just want to say attachment a is an exceptional piece of work the project we're just agreed a big piece of work so uh the project the property that the city just closed on is is this piece here oh it really was right in the middle oh nice great of the greenway just south of the Hatfield line oh and it doesn't provide access all the way to Coles Meadow Road but we do have access other places on Cole's Meadows so that's exciting great great so that's just for information you don't need us to do anything at this point no action necessary just an update we finally closed on that yeah very good thank you um and no staff issue permits or other business nuts we're seeing no no and I think the only thing that we'll have on the agenda in two weeks at this point unless something comes up which I don't anticipate is just a very quick requester certificate of compliance so I may even check in to see if we can meet at some other point just to deal with that one and not have to meet on the 26th okay hopefully by then I will have uh gotten my computer and router through marriage counseling so they're talking to each other again yeah that's so frustrating um all right and and I've been uh mulling over uh Jen um I'm uh there's a among a couple of other boards and one of those I'm leaving I'm on the board of tapestry and I'm leading that as of June 30th uh and so I may be uh the volunteer to uh sit on the uh Community uh um yeah so I finally decided but I I certainly wouldn't mind if anybody else uh wanted to volunteer I don't need to but if in order for us to have a representation if uh if necessary as a retiree with a fair amount of time available and I'm dropping off another board I could pick that responsibility up nice again what's the annual cycle when when does the next batch of applications come in I think Sarah it's we're starting like you said our next meeting is February yeah so there's two cycles per year um the committee doesn't meet except for that um first meeting is February 15th and they'll be done I don't know the schedule from me but by the end of April um and then there's another round so Jen will still be around for that one and then there's another one in the fall and it begins in October and goes through sometime in December I see um well I I my time will be a little Freer by the end of June so uh if if no one else steps up uh uh I'll volunteer to sit on that committee wow okay our liaison thank you thank you yeah I know thank you Jen yeah and I will stay on it until somebody replaces me I'm not dashing out the door by any means and I again I really enjoy that work I wish I had more time for it I hope to do it again sort of in the future when I have a less demanding day to day right well it's good of you to do and a good of you to hang in there until through this round and um and then like I said if nobody else steps up I I can be picking things up for the next round in the fall all right any other news or uh important things that people um have been going through and as we begin this new year which certainly hope will be a better one than the last one yeah I had a question about the difficulty with dogs and um he was at the Robert Brooks area um we're going to turn our attention to that sometime I guess in the spring and I don't know if there's anything we should be doing in the meantime well that's a good reminder because I had had a an exchange with Chief Kasper about the new um uh dog officer she was going to be hiring and I've dropped that ball because I don't know I don't know if Sarah you may know whether they have uh filled that position yet but when they did she was going to be wanting to talk with us about it allocating time from that position to be present at Fitzgerald Lake and possibly other places yeah that I don't know if that's been build but I can certainly check on that all right and I'll I'll check with Jody as well and see uh and so that but thanks for that reminder that uh yeah we uh normally um um Mr Zimmerman will be in touch to remind us that we have something pending and he must have had a busy year end too because he didn't uh he didn't get on my case about hey we got to follow up on this so um but I'm sure he won't forget entirely so uh good thanks for bringing it back up I'll I'll talk to the chief or reach out to her by email and see if that position is hired what I think might be beneficial is uh if so then she and whoever they've hired uh have a brief meeting with us and members Bob Zimmerman or whoever else yes uh broad book and say what would be helpful and kind of tailor the work of that new person to be helpful yeah because I don't keep worrying that I'm talking about heavy-handed in 4 Horsemen I think we're talking about a heightened level of Education may be assisted by a uniform and a presence um just a presence yeah yeah if we we may also um and this idea that Bob had that apparently a couple of other communities Massachusetts do of having a sort of Steward or Ranger not a member of the police force but nonetheless an official presence so we can think about if let's try the uh the dog officer route first right and then see what might be an alternative if that proves unsatisfactory but right now let's try that first yeah I think the conservation commission officer is in Carlisle or Lincoln one of those two communities is a model if the um higher from the police department doesn't fill any of that role good all right I do have one quick update um just all good news we received a 250 000 Grant from the state department of ecological restoration to continue our work at Pine Grove oh yes really exciting um yeah and that will also include some funding for parking lot design because it you know that's really heavily utilized by people and we're planning in on installing an accessible Trail there in a park it's just a really small parking lot it is it's a real necessity and it turns Park along the road yeah and it's a mess you know with these increased free stock Cycles when it used to just be freeze freeze it's just turning into a sort of a gross mud hole um and separately the department of ecological restoration is also working with us using State funding on moving forward with dam removal designs for the the impoundment there that was formerly used for irrigation okay good nice and good news for General um news I am completed Unit 102 towards my certification uh understanding the wetlands protection acts State and uh the state level um and uh it's really enjoyable ah so it's if this has all been on Zoom or uh yep in some kind of self-guided process no back when I was taking them they were all in person in various yeah no it's two hour heavily powerpointed um um instruction about um uh the wetlands protection acts and um the Inland and Coastal regulations and um it's interesting we're kind of lucky we don't have to deal with coastlines because there are 11 sections to the bylaws there and we only have five I guess so that makes life a little easier for uh we in the Inland communities so Paul is this something you recommend for new members absolutely and they're doing a lot of the um units in March um but uh if you go to the Massachusetts Association of conservation Commissioners you can pull up their their calendar of scheduled events okay and it's great everyone receiving their newsletters you all should be but um I'm not sure how up-to-date they are with inputting new members the amazing via email right they send those yeah yeah I'm getting them yeah I think I get them yeah I think I am too I'll go double check I'm certainly getting Communications from Joey Wigglesworth okay yeah if you're getting those you should be getting the rest of the news yeah yeah I don't think I'm getting anything okay I'll David I'll check on that for you they might just I I did give them your updated information okay well you remember Joy she met him yes you'll remember what's that amazing yeah he's quite a character yeah yep he's very sharp he knows this stuff and Michelle all right is really great yeah okay very good thank you everybody um I'm glad to put this one uh well it'll probably never go away entirely but I'm glad we've gotten through this stage but uh these super fun kind of places are just going to be around for our grandchildren so yeah that's right yeah but I think as I said at one point this era this project wasn't perfect but uh uh I think it it was a reasonable judgment in our part that it passed muster and the alternative uh hard to imagine without spending gazillions of dollars which they wouldn't do or don't have yeah and so yeah 20 years from now we ought to be glad this happened yes exactly yeah and you know I do think the commissions work in this case and the the many plan revisions resulted in a you know software approach and a much better project than was initially proposed in the the Trump will thank us in 10 years for the um renewed shape foreign thanks to you for because we we you know we set the parameters and then you had to go hash this all out into a written form so thanks so much for doing that amazing doing well enough they came back uh pretty happy um which given how they started uh that that that's real progress so thank you I'd also like to thank people Rick Hudson here uh it's it was a hard job um I may disagree with some of it but I'm willing to uh look forward to moving forward and commit to it okay thank you thank you all right everybody good night um but next time in a couple of weeks uh Sarah I hope to have a uh a working Zoom uh computer thanks Cameron thanks everybody thanks good night all right bye-bye 00:00:12.230 --> 00:00:16.730 align:start position:0% with uh 22 case in front of us um have that as a first if not then um Sarah did Issue some minutes um and can I get a motion to approve those minutes so moved and a second and uh any discussion or amendments I thought they looked okay but I uh if anybody picked up on something else that needs to be tweaked um speak up if not we have a motion in a second uh to approve the minutes all in favor all right Paul uh yes Mason yes Jen yes David yes and Kevin yes all right unanimous all right good um so now we're on to uh the first case which is the continuation of notice of intent for mediation of contaminated soil and Bank stabilization proposed work to occur within the bag Riverfront land under water and bordering land subject to flooding all on the Mill River and this is a continuation from a prior meeting where we were making considerable progress and Sarah has roughed out a proposed set of additional conditions that we would want to build into an order of conditions so I hope everybody's had a chance to review those um and so with that I'll turn to the applicant and say anything you want to bring us up to date on or by way of introduction or speak to the proposed conditions that Sarah has constructed uh Barry Fogle I'm here as you can see with alanverson the applicant Lions Whitten is the licensed site professional and Josh charette our Wetland scientist how's everybody happy New Year yeah um we are we appreciate having had a chance to see that list that Sarah put together that was quite good um we have nothing more to provide in the way of information although um foreign probably in your draft orders or in your order do you list the different you know you have the revised plans we did send in a um invasives removal for the Japanese knotweed I don't know if you wanted to make a reference to that yeah so uh this these are just the attachment pieces of it the order itself will have a list of all of the relevant uh plan sets and I did distribute both the revised set and the invasive plan to the commission so that that letter got around as well you said yeah you're good um you know there was probably just I mean the only I don't know if it's something you do as a standard thing but in the introduction the third paragraph you mentioned 310 CMR 10.21 through 60 and because this is Inland we would normally it would be 10.51 um but I'll check that I might have just hit the wrong yeah no that's my keyboard unless sea level rise gets a whole lot greater hopefully we're not dealing with 10.21 um I don't think there's anything else the only um one thing Alan and I exchanged an email on today was in terms of the fence whether it would be um you know in segments where there would be areas where this fence would be higher or the gallon was there something about that you wanted to address or uh yes I I would um it's it appears from the way what is at section 34 is written it says any fencing so I would take that to refer to the entire length of the fence of the chain link fence along Riverside Drive um it would be I think unnecessary and um duplicative and fairly labor-intensive to cut the bottom six inches off the entire house if we did it um uh I don't even know if that was the intent if I would suggest maybe do it every fourth panel have a six inch by three foot length that would be eliminated to allow Little Critters to pass under it um yeah I think the fence has to rest on the ground I believe or on the bottom rails so to cut the whole thing off might destabilize the fence so I that if we did it every fourth panel six inches high by three feet long I think that would accomplish the objective how do uh Commissioners feel by the way I have been I'm on the phone now because I've been disconnected by my computer again I have to get a diagnosis here about what's going on but anybody uh uh I will I might I how long are the each panel between the vertical posts the 12 feet yeah I would typically more than four feet I I honestly don't I haven't measured but if if four feet in the middle were cut off that would leave something on either end I would think to support the chain link fence right um and there are others who know more about the behavior of of small animals than I um but I would think uh that maybe every other or every third panel so that if uh you know possum skunk raccoon whatever is bumping up they'll kind of do a little searching but if if they have to go 60 80 feet to find the next hole that might be a little bit of an obstacle so I I and I'm not sure about that I'm not knowledgeable about the animal behavior that way but uh every fourth panel depending on the length of the panels uh every fourth panel might uh not quite accomplish what we're trying to with small animals I would guess that they're I would guess that they're probably eight to ten feet long so 10 feet is typical 10 feet is typical okay yeah so that would be every 40 feet there'd be a opening is that too much too long I wouldn't think so so let's call it every three panels that'd be I think that would be okay yeah that would that would be fine with me good okay um other um questions or observations about from the applicant or from Commissioners about the draft plan um there are one or two items Sarah which you were proposing but encouraging that we have a discussion um during this meeting rather than and I'm I apologize but I'm having trouble even calling up on my computer because it's disconnected again calling the document uh your attachment a up on my computer so I did not print it out uh but there was one thing that you said should there should be some additional discussion of just forgetting which item that was one of those was the requirements for plantings yes including some higher canopy uh eventually higher canopy level plants not just uh shrubs and ground cover yeah so uh as proposed in the um in the application documents it was indicated that natural long-term repopulation would be sufficient to provide vegetative cover but that would really limit the species to those found on site um so making some selective plantings would some Opera would create some opportunities for shading and food and habitat and more plant diversity but you know rather than just leaving the specifics of the approval of the planting plant completely up to staff it would be great to specify you know a minimum number of species of each type and that wouldn't since the uh what we're trying to accomplish here is a a net Improvement um uh increasing the diversity of species of plants would would represent their Improvement and there had been some concern even though uh this is all on the North Shore and therefore the ship big shade trees uh are not as effective at creating cool water for the fishery as they would be on the South Shore but still if it had at least a uh a few substantial you know maybe 15 20 years from now substantial uh upper canopy trees on the North Shore that that would and especially as Sarah says that they were adding to the species diversity of that area Forest that I think that would be a desirable thing given the um the language that Sarah put in is planting shall include it overstory trees and understory shrub species and shall include low height species within the GEOS cell area and all tree species will conform to those included in the city's approved tree species list so that's pretty good yeah that sounds pretty good if I could make the point I'm not sure that we can plant in the geocell area the geocell is there to stabilize the soil and to cut it open to allow planting in it that's that would be very either on the bank of the river or at the right over the top of the where the bank will be so the the response to oto's comments indicated that larger height tree species would be an issue within the geocell area because they you know eventually could fall and damage the bank but didn't specify that any plantings within the geocell area would create a concern yeah I was gonna try to invite Lions to um speculate so to speak on where might there be areas in the project area if you will and not in the in the stockpile and not on the slope where larger vegetation could be established is there are there places that you can think of in the work area so to speak that for the affected project area where that could be encouraged without disrupting anything certainly at the perimeter of the Wetland replication area um there could be larger species that is outside the GSL um could have some small holes in the geocell uh for foreign taller than a person you'd want it you'd want it to be a low height shrub and um we really don't want anything tall growing on the slope yeah and and the importance of that specific language was to create a little bit of flexibility to make it clear that a large tree species wouldn't be required in the geocell but just make it so that there wouldn't be an area that's completely devoid of native plants and may just turn into you know big invasive mess I I actually thought that wasn't a bad condition if it had one tweak which was actually rather than prior to construction that it be after construction because I thought that it would sort of like we'll know it we'll know where things can be planted when the whole thing is done and we see what's to where the limits of the Geo cell end up and we can do an as built post construction of the geocell and of the slope stabilization and then we can get a landscaping plan put together that says how about putting planting some particular species here and there so guessing in a sense prior to construction would be hopeful whereas after the work is done that's a good opportunity I think for Lions his team and the contractor to figure out and you know where can we put this stuff you know does that make sense to sort of switch it from rather than prior to construction to after yeah I mean so that sounds reasonable yeah the reason for requiring the plan prior to construction is typically because so many applicants will just never do it otherwise um but in due to the unknowns of this project it does seem to it's more appropriate to have have it afterwards um but I I would just want to make sure that it's done you know immediately following the construction of the Lions area so Sarah yeah um and the commission there's an area um on either side of the ivw that is behind the maintenance Access Road um on the Riverside Drive side of the maintenance access road where during construction we will selectively place um log mats for the stabilizers of the crane and and um the excavator um but they're um Road word away from the river from um where the the extent of the gso and and those places those would be good places to to have plantings um they'll have more water and they're not in the gso and they're not in the stockpile [Music] um and they'll have minimal disturbance because the log mats will be there periodically but it's it's the strip where we're not taking trees down um and at least on the I'll call it the southern side of the ivw there really aren't trees there anyway uh right now um so it'll be in a place where a couple of trees could be replaced it's not that big it's kind of long and skinny but it so I think Sarah if we if the condition were changed to say you know following immediately following construction as you said I think that's the right word um and and in order to obtain a certificate of compliance and then blah blah blah you know but I think I think making it a immediately following completion of the geocell and so forth um would would work Allen right I mean sort of the timing of it makes more sense than trying to guess at it right and immediately following assumes that it's in a time of year that would allow plantings I meant for submission of a plan so it would it would be okay the applicant shall provide a plan and that that would also that's another reason why the timing is important because depending on where things finish up the plan might be with the spring planting season this shall be done or but if it's completed in July you know June there might be the fall planting plant this also goes with the timing of the invasive management of applying the foliar to the knotweed and getting rid of that before planting new stuff in that area too so they kind of merge those two factors so that seems fine I I would just recommend that the commission included a minimum number of each type of planting you know be it understory shrubs stories and larger trees just to so that you know if the applicant comes back with a plan that has you know six plants on it that I have guidance to point to to say that that's not sufficient okay yeah do you have a suggestions here for the uh the right number and uh with you know Hardwoods or something that will eventually be in the 40 50 plus vertical uh range I mean I think we could we could leave the individual species for the most part up to the applicant you know there's a lot of different types of trees and shrubs that would be appropriate for that site and it would and would make sense um you know including things that are creeping um northward in their range with climate change that would be great to include um put it you know at least the minimum number and there's 96 large trees being removed you don't have a handle on the types of shrubs um but you know working from that would make sense and um lions and burying out we don't do we know how many what the dbh of those trees is I know we don't require that it'd be measured because it doesn't need any zoning relief but that would if you know it that would provide some guidance there's a few big ones um I think that you know the standard language and Alan don't get upset but you know it's typical from this kind of a condition to say following the complete you know immediately following the completion of construction the plan shall be submitted for review and consultation with the commission and its agent you know so we can figure this out yeah at the time um you know but acknowledging that it's something that the applicant and new folks will work out and and I think I might add uh that the commission uh could conduct a site visit at that stage where you know most of the work has been done now it's time to be planting and we could be also part of that decision making about uh it looks like you need 15 substantial trees of such and such uh ultimate uh height or uh growth whereas right now I feel like we'd be just guessing uh yes without actually walking through the property again but that sounds fine because I would be concerned it's a fairly um limited area as lions referred to we can only squeeze in we're only going to be able to squeeze in a certain number of trees so yeah it makes sense yep that makes sense all right any other of the proposed conditions that need additional discussion uh before we finally closed the hearing I thought that never happened no there were no other none of those other thank you Sarah for drafting it but there were no other items in there that we had any questions about I was clean shaving before we started [Laughter] all right well if if uh if nothing else uh Sarah anything else you uh want to have the commission or pine on before you uh just capturing and recording the the ultimate order of conditions uh I I just want to make clear that the the finding that the commission needs to make is that the entirety of the work reference will qualify it as a limited project and that that opens the door for the the portions of the work that are um that don't meet the performance standards which are pretty significant in in this case due to the nature of the work um and then just public comment after that and then I if the commission is happy with these conditions I think we're all set okay um and as I read uh section and members it ended with a queue uh as I read through all all of that uh seemed like yeah I'm confident in saying that this uh can meet the definition of a limited project and so the rest of the commission agree with that yes any anybody who doesn't since I can't see a screen with all your faces at this point I would agree all right then uh before we uh close the hearing are there any comments from members of the public if not just one small thing on number 35 um about halfway down Sarah it's to what extent not an extend I tried raising my hand to work uh Ricketts in here uh next to the river about halfway down which is I'm not sure what North and South sides the river runs north to south but on the project side uh that probably could take some sycamores right next to the river oh and that might be one place to uh to plant stuff there's some similar you'll see it if you've come out here and look at it because there's already some Sycamore wow also if we could um keep the tree similar to what's there now uh that would be nice uh experimenting with Evergreens and stuff given uh how quickly they seem to die these days seem to be a little bit more dicey well in that part of the planting plan as we've just discussed would be completed following most of the construction what I actually plan to do is to walk the property again prior to the start of construction and take a few photos so that I can anchor in my memory uh what's there now that we can include uh in our thinking about what we think ought to be created as a an eventual as built of uh the the the the trees and foliage that we want to have in the eventual as build plan so um but I think yes getting down to those kinds of specifics exactly where and of what variety well that as we just discussed that'll happen at the end of the project rather than right now yeah okay thank you and this is in the nature of a question but the plan specify a four foot vinyl covered chain link fence and it was unclear whether that was going to replace the current um six foot chain link fence that is now around the property and nice if it did that way um well I sent a letter about so I don't repeat it but I just want to get a clarification on that I don't recall uh we call that provision in the plan uh four foot uh vinyl coated but uh so someone on the applicant uh Team want to speak to that I um I just don't recall that piece of the uh of the plan set there's a new this is Lions Winton there's uh a new fence to be installed from Valley Home Improvement along the river side of the stockpile and that is the would be a continuation of the four foot vinyl fence that's behind Valley Home Improvement in the cutlery building now the remaining fence along Riverside Drive is a currently a security fence to keep people out and right that fence is not proposed to be changed other than the holes that we talked about at the beginning of the hearing but yep okay okay um one last thing to add um applicant team I'll just need a revised uh noi page that includes the riverfront area disturbance now that the access Drive is supposed to be permanent so I don't need the whole noi just just that one sheet so I have an accurate figure to be able to issue the order yeah get to that okay any other comments before we close Sarah can I just ask one question about the requirement that um let's see the the trees should have three growing Seasons it's going to be fairly easy for us to get plants trees to survive where they're going to go because it's a fairly wet area I don't think it'll take us take you three years three growing Seasons to see that they're successful and what that would do is keep the um certificate of compliance in advance for an additional entire year when it's already clear that they're growing fine could is there any possibility of shortening that to two two growing seasons our usual practice in such cases it is for three um do you really uh bring fall spring or fall spring fall as three seasons three growing Seasons uh we would take three no we we would uh be talking about um pretty much annual review a complete uh growing season would be from Spring to freeze that would be that would be a single growing season and normally when we have these kinds of replantings that we do require that 75 percent survival after three of growing seasons so three calendar years so that thing yeah so that ends up being three calendar years since spring is from our growing season is from Spring to freeze well all right if that's standard Ally I think that's that's what they do right yeah in situations where an applicant needs to demonstrate that you know the the critical pieces of the project have been completed we could always do a partial certificate of compliance and and leave it right yeah we have done partial situations okay all right um so can I get a motion to close the hearing I moved Mason with his beard uh is there a second I'll second it we don't want a spirit any longer and uh any uh discussion um if not all in favor so this is just for closing the hearing Paul yes Mason yes Jen yes and Kevin yes all right the hearing is finally closed uh then we have a quite substantial uh order of conditions both including standard and special conditions for this project uh any further discussion on that or can I get someone to make a motion to Grant this order of conditions almost again a second very good and a second all right uh all in favor Sarah roll call Paul yes Mason yes Jen yes and Kevin yes indeed all right unanimous David I didn't I didn't forget you but right I know okay all right unanimous thank you all right well good luck to all of you and uh we'll be staying in touch and um like I said I plan to go out there before the project starts and refresh my memory and take some photos so uh I can do a before and after once the we get together for that part of the process of uh the final planting plan oh all right thank you thank you very much thank you all right we see Mr Whitney the railroad show weeks all right well um uh we did minutes and we did uh this uh case and finally moved it along um any other business before the commission Sarah uh I I don't really have much at this point uh we were able to close on um on a piece of property in the Broderick Fitzgerald Lake Greenway which is exciting you approved it several years ago it was a sort of a long time coming um but I can send you all a map of that one just to show where we're at but uh Fitzgerald lake has gotten quite large uh over a thousand acres now yes wow that's great and instead of buggy metal road to the sort of Northeast uh it is so this one was it was sort of an in-holding off of um Coles Meadow Road this I don't know if anybody saw the papers that the dorkle project so this was oh she's searching I just want to say attachment a is an exceptional piece of work the project we're just agreed a big piece of work so uh the project the property that the city just closed on is is this piece here oh it really was right in the middle oh nice great of the greenway just south of the Hatfield line oh and it doesn't provide access all the way to Coles Meadow Road but we do have access other places on Cole's Meadows so that's exciting great great so that's just for information you don't need us to do anything at this point no action necessary just an update we finally closed on that yeah very good thank you um and no staff issue permits or other business nuts we're seeing no no and I think the only thing that we'll have on the agenda in two weeks at this point unless something comes up which I don't anticipate is just a very quick requester certificate of compliance so I may even check in to see if we can meet at some other point just to deal with that one and not have to meet on the 26th okay hopefully by then I will have uh gotten my computer and router through marriage counseling so they're talking to each other again yeah that's so frustrating um all right and and I've been uh mulling over uh Jen um I'm uh there's a among a couple of other boards and one of those I'm leaving I'm on the board of tapestry and I'm leading that as of June 30th uh and so I may be uh the volunteer to uh sit on the uh Community uh um yeah so I finally decided but I I certainly wouldn't mind if anybody else uh wanted to volunteer I don't need to but if in order for us to have a representation if uh if necessary as a retiree with a fair amount of time available and I'm dropping off another board I could pick that responsibility up nice again what's the annual cycle when when does the next batch of applications come in I think Sarah it's we're starting like you said our next meeting is February yeah so there's two cycles per year um the committee doesn't meet except for that um first meeting is February 15th and they'll be done I don't know the schedule from me but by the end of April um and then there's another round so Jen will still be around for that one and then there's another one in the fall and it begins in October and goes through sometime in December I see um well I I my time will be a little Freer by the end of June so uh if if no one else steps up uh uh I'll volunteer to sit on that committee wow okay our liaison thank you thank you yeah I know thank you Jen yeah and I will stay on it until somebody replaces me I'm not dashing out the door by any means and I again I really enjoy that work I wish I had more time for it I hope to do it again sort of in the future when I have a less demanding day to day right well it's good of you to do and a good of you to hang in there until through this round and um and then like I said if nobody else steps up I I can be picking things up for the next round in the fall all right any other news or uh important things that people um have been going through and as we begin this new year which certainly hope will be a better one than the last one yeah I had a question about the difficulty with dogs and um he was at the Robert Brooks area um we're going to turn our attention to that sometime I guess in the spring and I don't know if there's anything we should be doing in the meantime well that's a good reminder because I had had a an exchange with Chief Kasper about the new um uh dog officer she was going to be hiring and I've dropped that ball because I don't know I don't know if Sarah you may know whether they have uh filled that position yet but when they did she was going to be wanting to talk with us about it allocating time from that position to be present at Fitzgerald Lake and possibly other places yeah that I don't know if that's been build but I can certainly check on that all right and I'll I'll check with Jody as well and see uh and so that but thanks for that reminder that uh yeah we uh normally um um Mr Zimmerman will be in touch to remind us that we have something pending and he must have had a busy year end too because he didn't uh he didn't get on my case about hey we got to follow up on this so um but I'm sure he won't forget entirely so uh good thanks for bringing it back up I'll I'll talk to the chief or reach out to her by email and see if that position is hired what I think might be beneficial is uh if so then she and whoever they've hired uh have a brief meeting with us and members Bob Zimmerman or whoever else yes uh broad book and say what would be helpful and kind of tailor the work of that new person to be helpful yeah because I don't keep worrying that I'm talking about heavy-handed in 4 Horsemen I think we're talking about a heightened level of Education may be assisted by a uniform and a presence um just a presence yeah yeah if we we may also um and this idea that Bob had that apparently a couple of other communities Massachusetts do of having a sort of Steward or Ranger not a member of the police force but nonetheless an official presence so we can think about if let's try the uh the dog officer route first right and then see what might be an alternative if that proves unsatisfactory but right now let's try that first yeah I think the conservation commission officer is in Carlisle or Lincoln one of those two communities is a model if the um higher from the police department doesn't fill any of that role good all right I do have one quick update um just all good news we received a 250 000 Grant from the state department of ecological restoration to continue our work at Pine Grove oh yes really exciting um yeah and that will also include some funding for parking lot design because it you know that's really heavily utilized by people and we're planning in on installing an accessible Trail there in a park it's just a really small parking lot it is it's a real necessity and it turns Park along the road yeah and it's a mess you know with these increased free stock Cycles when it used to just be freeze freeze it's just turning into a sort of a gross mud hole um and separately the department of ecological restoration is also working with us using State funding on moving forward with dam removal designs for the the impoundment there that was formerly used for irrigation okay good nice and good news for General um news I am completed Unit 102 towards my certification uh understanding the wetlands protection acts State and uh the state level um and uh it's really enjoyable ah so it's if this has all been on Zoom or uh yep in some kind of self-guided process no back when I was taking them they were all in person in various yeah no it's two hour heavily powerpointed um um instruction about um uh the wetlands protection acts and um the Inland and Coastal regulations and um it's interesting we're kind of lucky we don't have to deal with coastlines because there are 11 sections to the bylaws there and we only have five I guess so that makes life a little easier for uh we in the Inland communities so Paul is this something you recommend for new members absolutely and they're doing a lot of the um units in March um but uh if you go to the Massachusetts Association of conservation Commissioners you can pull up their their calendar of scheduled events okay and it's great everyone receiving their newsletters you all should be but um I'm not sure how up-to-date they are with inputting new members the amazing via email right they send those yeah yeah I'm getting them yeah I think I get them yeah I think I am too I'll go double check I'm certainly getting Communications from Joey Wigglesworth okay yeah if you're getting those you should be getting the rest of the news yeah yeah I don't think I'm getting anything okay I'll David I'll check on that for you they might just I I did give them your updated information okay well you remember Joy she met him yes you'll remember what's that amazing yeah he's quite a character yeah yep he's very sharp he knows this stuff and Michelle all right is really great yeah okay very good thank you everybody um I'm glad to put this one uh well it'll probably never go away entirely but I'm glad we've gotten through this stage but uh these super fun kind of places are just going to be around for our grandchildren so yeah that's right yeah but I think as I said at one point this era this project wasn't perfect but uh uh I think it it was a reasonable judgment in our part that it passed muster and the alternative uh hard to imagine without spending gazillions of dollars which they wouldn't do or don't have yeah and so yeah 20 years from now we ought to be glad this happened yes exactly yeah and you know I do think the commissions work in this case and the the many plan revisions resulted in a you know software approach and a much better project than was initially proposed in the the Trump will thank us in 10 years for the um renewed shape foreign thanks to you for because we we you know we set the parameters and then you had to go hash this all out into a written form so thanks so much for doing that amazing doing well enough they came back uh pretty happy um which given how they started uh that that that's real progress so thank you I'd also like to thank people Rick Hudson here uh it's it was a hard job um I may disagree with some of it but I'm willing to uh look forward to moving forward and commit to it okay thank you thank you all right everybody good night um but next time in a couple of weeks uh Sarah I hope to have a uh a working Zoom uh computer thanks Cameron thanks everybody thanks good night all right bye-bye 00:00:16.730 --> 00:00:16.740 align:start position:0% 00:00:16.740 --> 00:00:17.870 align:start position:0% 00:00:17.870 --> 00:00:21.950 align:start 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