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[Music]  thank you  this episode of Dana being Dana is  brought to you in part by the now a  massage Boutique  [Music]  I'm Dana Michelle and I'm thrilled  you're with us my show is about all  different aspects of the human  connection things that bring us together  and living life intentionally  compassion is defined as concern and  acknowledgment for the sufferings or  Misfortune of others now we were told as  kids to never judge a book by its cover  but how often do we really do that  instead how often do we judge people on  the chapter we just happen to walk in on  one of the questions I Ask of myself and  of others is have you considered the  experiences of others that may be  different from your own  I learned that the hard way growing up  as always being different as for me I'm  originally from the North Shore namely  the Highland Park Deerfield area and I  was often assumed to be a Jewish white  woman to those who I hadn't met while my  parents choice to raise a family on the  North Shore afforded me many great  opportunities my experiences were not  always easy  joining me now are friends of mine who  have also had life experiences that  might appear easier than you think each  of us were born into situations where we  were the minority in our environments  can each of you briefly share your  circumstances  um I'm Michael I grew up in Lake Forest  but I was one of the only Jewish people  in my school  um and you know despite that I also was  a white male like half the people there  being Jewish was pretty unique despite  being on the North Shore yeah so my name  is Eddie Coleman and I am  was origin I was born and raised on the  south side of Chicago and due to the  gangs and the violence of being a  latchkey kid my mom made the best  decision an opportunity for me to move  me uh to Highland Park where my  grandparents lived and um not knowing it  then uh but that was one of the best  decisions that my mom made for me and  I'm the resident a black guy here  Anita  I grew up mostly in Washington DC area  but I was born in Brazil my mother is a  mixed race afro-latin woman my father is  a white appearing Puerto Rican man and  so I grew up all over the place I lived  in Kansas Panama and California before  we moved to the DC area when I was nine  I also spent time in New York and with  my family in other countries so  I guess I really started feeling like a  minority when I was nine and in a school  in the U.S for the first time in the DC  area but overseas and on military bases  always felt very comfortable because  those were really integrated  environments where people came from a  number of different class backgrounds so  it was it was quite an adjustment yeah  Trevor I'm Trevor Sheehan I actually  grew up in this town in Naperville so  I've been here most of my life I went  away for college but I've been here for  the most part I went to school at neuqua  so very large school there was over 5  000 kids so you kind of just tried to  fit in where you could and make friends  and I played Sports  and we both my brother and I uh we grew  up here and we went our separate ways  but we're both feeling that Minority  because we're gay and not straight yeah  fear of the unknown or differences often  leads people to make assumptions what  are some of the assumptions that people  have made about you  I mean come on everyone is there  anything you could imagine you know the  the most obvious one was I remember when  I was in college and you know I I blend  in pretty well so people don't know but  I had a landlord uh we were trying to  get a lease on an apartment and the  landlord was explaining some claws in  the lease and her explanation was that  it's so people don't Jew me down on the  rent like that's just something people  say right and I remember I was like I  had never even heard that  um but obviously knew what she meant and  uh you know the whole like cheapness  Trope it's just  you got a lot of that grown up yeah yeah  I'm sure I can agree with that one of  the assumptions I'm going being from you  know the South Side uh going  living in Highland Park but uh going to  Deerfield uh the assumption is that you  know I'm playing basketball I you know  I'm good at that and you know I'm fast  now although those did give me  opportunities to take advantage of  because of the fact I was probably  average in speed uh growing up on the  south side and moving to the north side  that it did put me above the crust of  the other people so that's an  opportunity but those assumptions were  definitely there  some of the assumptions being in college  uh just moving into and all same-sex  dorm  playing running cross country and  joining a fraternity they just you know  I'll expect you to like and do the same  things right and they don't see that  other people have other views yeah  people just really don't see that I have  an identity that's more complicated than  uh just being a white lady you know I've  thought about changing my last name  sometimes to reflect my Heritage a  little more but my parents were always  really against that they said um  you know the president there have been  presidents of Latin American countries  with the last name Washington you know  they said that that's just you know part  of who I am and you got to be uh who you  are you know not change your appearance  to signal  um your background you know just be you  do you find people looking to try to  categorize you or put you in a box right  I think sometimes with the fear  um of differences or fear of the unknown  you know it's always trying to kind of  figure you out you know I for me growing  up on the North Shore you know it's well  I don't really know you you speak well  you do this you do that you're different  than typical people of color that that  they've experienced and a lot of times  they haven't really experienced anybody  who's different and so what they are  gleaning from is is Media or assumptions  um or or you know conjecture about  what they assume about other people so  um what's some of the what are some of  the stereotypes that you've encountered  again I'm more than happy to start this  off yeah come on Michael I'm very shy  ordinarily I swear um  you know the it was funny because when I  was growing up again you know there were  not a lot of Jewish they're not a lot of  Jewish people in the Lake Forest area  right it's very waspy  um I didn't buy salmon pants but you  know that's not the only reason I didn't  fit in and I remember I'd have  sleepovers when I was a little kid uh  you know at friends houses and there  were there's always those kids whose  parents would drag you to church with  them on Sunday and I remember it was so  bizarre because someone like are you  allowed to come with us is this okay  like I'm not gonna catch fire you know  it's like all right right this is fine  and it was funny there's almost like  this  um like an overdoing of it you know and  to be like no no we're okay with it you  know like there's something to be okay  with and it was just so bizarre some of  the interactions I had  um you know is there stuff here you can  eat and you know all of that and so  it was I guess what you're you know to  what you're you're asking is sort of  like yeah everyone assumes that you know  Jewish people are a certain way and like  they don't like you know Protestants or  Christians or whatever and they eat  weird and all this bizarre stuff that is  completely foreign to me frankly you  know I didn't even start learning about  most of that until I was much older  that's true it's true I think we've come  a long way oh yeah in terms of  acceptance of of differences and people  being different  um yeah Eddie tell us about your prom  King experience at Deerfield High School  so the prom King at Deerfield high  school has traditionally been  that number one jock sports athletic  person with the number one female as far  as most likely cheerleading and uh and  so when I came up you know this is now  the 80s and the population of the school  was kind of tired of that so they wanted  to change that perspective and so uh I  did play on the football team  but this was the first year that they  decided that the candidates that were  running for pom king and queen didn't  have to be a couple like it was an  individual male and in an individual  female  and so I got peer pressured into running  for prom King uh not thinking anything  of it I've never been political so I  didn't I didn't I didn't campaign  Girls run a little differently I guess  but I didn't I didn't come yeah I didn't  campaign you know campaign about it or  anything so as as it went along you know  I did hear that I was getting some votes  and everything but when the event came  up for the actual prom event  I'm at the party I'm at the prom and I'm  ready for the after party so I'm  basically at the back of the cafeteria  like at the door ready to leave and they  have to announce this and so they  actually announced the prom queen is my  high school sweetheart  and I'm just like wow okay that that's  interesting but you know it still could  be a different male uh that wins and she  was a black female and she's a black  she's a black female  um and so I was like wow so they crowned  her with the prom queen and everything  and I'm still sitting there like wow  it's going to take a little bit longer  but let's get this over with and they  say for the prom King they announced me  as the prom King uh taken back taken by  surprise and everything and I was like  wow so I had to walk all the way from  the back of the cafeteria up on the  stage didn't get anything you know  flowers or a crown or nothing but the  interesting fact from all of that is the  next day in the paper it's always  printed on the front page of the  newspaper that picture of Deerfield High  School's Prime king and queen of the  event  and there was no picture of us there was  just that title you know that that  paragraph in the in the paper so they  reported the story but they didn't post  they did a picture they didn't post the  picture they just put our names  interesting and so uh my high school  Sweetheart's parents was really upset  they call it called the newspaper  station and everything and it was a big  protest about that because we were like  wow it's kind of flooring yeah that that  idea did they have an excuse and they  cameras were broken yeah they came they  came up with some excuse they didn't  capture the event or anything but it was  a Reclamation like that Friday of that  week that our picture was put in the  paper but it's buried probably in the  middle of the newspaper so the protests  worked it did work because they had to  go back and re and restate and take the  photo and put it in the paper but at  that point it was a lost lost event and  I'm thinking this is 1988 and it was  still obvious but also shows yourself  how some of those fears  some of that unknown you know can really  just kind of tarnish or torpedo  otherwise awesome events opportunities  inclusive moments yes we're going to  continue the discussion and talking  about differences we're going to take a  quick break don't go away we'll be right  back  [Music]  we all have a story to share stories  others can relate to whether moments of  sorrow or of Hope and inspiration  whether a story of struggle or a moment  of Victory every little moment captured  and shared helps us to feel more  informed helps us to feel more engaged  with and connected to the community we  all call home every little moment  captured and shared adds up to something  greater for us that something is the  collective story of Naperville a city  rich in its volunteer Spirit its  diversity its traditions and  celebrations and so much more in  Naperville there are so many stories  worth sharing and for the past 35 years  it's been our honor to tell those  stories and share them with you  [Music]  foreign this episode of Dana being Dana  is brought to you in part by the now a  massage Boutique  [Music]  welcome back to Dana B and Dina where we  are talking about differences we talked  about high school going into the break  and college can be a game changer and an  opportunity to start over or really be  who you are what was that like within  the context of our discussion so the  transition from high school to college  again I it was set up for success in  that transition due to the fact uh being  from again from the south side of  Chicago and going to Deerfield High  School I think the opportunities that it  afforded me with culture with the  culture and based everything on what I  went through that transition and I  transitioned to Arizona state with the  population is a lot more but in the  culture aspect of it it was still the  same and so I was able to  again transition easily more than some  of my friends that grew up you know in  Detroit Michigan again also being from  Chicago and where they're in college and  and as difficult as it is just being  there but in blending in yeah and I  think that gave me a leg up from my  experiences that what I went through and  what I came through uh being there and I  actually excelled in that environment  versus them and unfortunately some of  them you know not finishing and having  to go home just because they couldn't  associate or blend in in that  environment  and where you voted from King of Arizona  no not and out of theirs on the stage  yeah  but I have to imagine it's a similar  story like you know for you because like  in me when you go to college it's such a  bigger Pond right and you know I for the  first time there's a bunch of like Long  Island Jews that showed up and I was  like oh my God you know there's like a  lot of uh other people that are exactly  like this and I think it's just because  there were so many more people around  that it just stopped being as big of a  deal  College can really be a breath of fresh  air  um I coming from the North Shore I went  to a historically black college Spelman  College uh where I was one of instead of  being the only black female I was one of  250  um black black women or 500 women and it  was an incredible experience it can be  very affirming and and empowering to  just find that there are other people  two things one more people who look like  you  um or more people who are just more  accepting of you uh being in in a  homogenous environment or Suburbia in  many ways has so many benefits but it  can also be  um  very limiting in terms of mindset and  even sometimes even opportunities  um so so College can be a great thing  what about you two College was amazing I  went to Western Illinois University and  I would do it all over again I mean then  it was thriving there were so many  uh and the enrollment was so high you  know now it's not as much but I mean I  got to meet so many good people there I  got to find people that were more like  me  um I got to do more things feel more  alive kind of box out a little bit so it  just felt like a whole new beginning for  myself so my college was very different  from my high school I went to a pretty  small high school there were about  um well it's small now like probably not  when you went but um  I went to high school about 400 people  per class and so I really knew everybody  and then I went to a commuter School in  Portland Oregon it was a big Urban  campus at Portland State University and  it was very different it was kind of um  you didn't really get to know people  because it was a lot of uh you know  part-time students so they're just you  know that wasn't really um my experience  you know my experience wasn't of having  you know my social life or professional  life revolve around college so  um I worked part-time for most of my  degree program had a lot of different  experiences  um and I guess that was where I started  to see myself as a person of color like  in high school I had always been told  you know that I was a white person you  know I think  um you asked earlier about assumptions  people make and I think a lot of people  do assume that people from Latin America  look a certain way  um I guess especially in places where  there's been a lot of immigration from a  certain country you know people expect  there to be a certain look so I think  um  on the East Coast people didn't really  think that I was Latin and I certainly  never talked about uh you know my my  racial background because  um I actually went to a selective High  School where you had to take an  admissions test and they had had to make  some changes following some affirmative  action lawsuits  um before I was admitted so by the time  I got there they had tried to tweak the  process a few different ways and there  just weren't that many diverse Latin or  black students in my class so when  people found out that I was Latin they  would think that I had somehow tried to  game the system and getting in there or  played the race card so it was something  you know that I didn't really Embrace in  high school and  um growing up in the DC area which is  very Cosmopolitan a lot like Chicago you  know where people where there's like a  range of how people look you know you  don't experience day-to-day racism in  the same way but when I moved to Oregon  which has like a long history of um  because you know what I would call  structural racism you know actually  pushing uh bulldozing black  neighborhoods through over in renewal  you know when I got into that  environment like there was a lot less  diversity in the like people that you  saw there so I do think that people knew  that I was a person of color and I think  you know part of that  um I wish that Michael's wife were here  today because it's my thought I probably  got her sick yeah because uh she Michael  is married to a Native American woman  and that was my first time being in  college meeting native people and um you  know the people that I met these are  people who on the East Coast are in a  big city you might think we're white but  when you get into a homogeneous place it  becomes clear when someone's different  when I was younger my hair was it was  curlier I hadn't dyed it blonde so I  didn't fit in like visually it to the to  the look of these P you know people who  lived in and were from the Pacific  Northwest so I do think that I  experienced like socially you know  people could tell that I wasn't from  there that I didn't fit in or that I was  different so that was kind of where I  started to identify more as a person of  color and I think that I started to have  some Consciousness around that as an  identity whereas before I was like  discouraged or like you know from  identifying with that because I didn't  feel that I'd personally experienced any  racism or you know I felt that I would  have negative social consequences for  being seen as like race faking or you  know playing up you know my Latin  background where it didn't really exist  even though it did you know I grew up  speaking Portuguese uh with my parents  and um my family so you know I learned  Spanish and English at the same time in  school but used Spanish a lot more in my  day-to-day life so I want to talk about  um the adult experience because we've  talked about high school we've talked  about college as an adult what  experiences have had the most influence  on you today I think a lot of the  experiences that we've had you know  being different  um living in that particularly in our  formative years of being teens and in  college have really had an influence as  as to not only who we are today but also  how we relate to others  um and our compassion you know for one  another how have your experiences  influenced who you are I'm actually  going to answer for my wife in absentia  yes it's so hilarious to me she gets all  the time what are you yep  and I'm just like who asks that you know  everyone's like Egyptian Greek like no  one can figure it out but like I can't  imagine being asked that question as  like a grown person  um and my daughter looks the poor kid  like me and in school she gets the same  stuff you're dealing with so I can only  imagine when she gets grown up she can  have similar experiences yeah I mean and  for me you know it was always sort of  the The Counter Culture thing that you  know I always was trying to be different  you know sort of to highlight things and  that's how I am now my professional life  you know that and I'm like the anti-jew  when it comes to have the tattoos all  over the place and I you know love bacon  and but I still hold it very strongly as  part of my identity and Heritage right  and  um it's not mutually exclusive but I  think a lot of that came from  being so proud of it growing up because  I was surrounded by people who you know  weren't accustomed to it and that  feeling of being different I think is is  really something that came out of it I  am surprised to hear you say that about  people not asking you what are you  because I have a friend who's um  who she looks really really Eastern  European and she gets it all the time  maybe people don't do it to you because  you're a guy but it's entirely important  everyone assumes white man well I think  that's because he's an X-Men but she has  she has like a more obviously like  Eastern European name too like I think  Captain is a little more like people  wonder what that is I got a lot of  questions about what kind of name is  that and I know they're thinking Jew or  not a Jew  um but no I do get what my name is but  no one ever asks my ethnicity because  they're always just like these are their  Anglo-Saxon or Eastern European like  those are really the only options  um but yeah my my poor kids like one of  my my sons looks like my wife and then  my daughter looks like me and then the  one in the middle or the youngest rather  just looks like a mix so he's gonna have  fun time too so now that I'm wearing a  ring I always get asked you know oh  where's your wife or your fiance and you  know I tell them like I have a fiance  and I'm getting married to him in  December in Costa Rica which we're very  excited about but  um I get that all the time and then  people are shocked when they hear that  it's a male and not a female yeah they  don't know how to really react with it  because they feel uncomfortable and I'm  like it's okay you know like this is who  I am this is what I want to be and be  with and I'm very happy and that's what  matters yeah do you think that  because I I think there's a lot of  people out there who spend a lifetime  trying to assimilate fit in right  um you know and I think that started in  as kids do you feel  because in some ways you know you may  obviously be different right you're  holding hands with your fiance your skin  color you know sometimes we look  different and not always but do you  think that it has created  um a certain level of confidence  and comfort you know where you might  have felt you know either anxious or  alone growing up but uh people tell me  all the time you seem so confident in  all these things but I've always been  alone right I've always been different  and so being used to that as an adult  um  do you think that has been shaped by by  your experiences oh 100 when Cody and I  first started dating we did I didn't  want to hold his hand I thought  everybody was looking at me and judging  me and everything like that and then I  just grew to accept it and love it and  now it doesn't bother me at all yeah  which is so liberating I think it's I  think it's great you know and and part  of this episode you know what I want to  get across to people is to be confident  in who you are and and love yourself and  be okay with that because I think  there's so many societal pressures to to  try to be different or to resent or hide  or  act differently than who you really are  I'm gonna ask you a question did you  feel different or out of place at  Spelman  no  um it's funny because it's kind of the  opposite I think everybody comes to  to Spelman in particular I call it the  Superstar syndrome where everybody was  prom queen and valedictorian and highly  successful it felt nice to be in a place  where I was not the only but  um the assumption is that everybody's  the same but you have people who are  from International students so being  black doesn't just mean black American  you know black can be from everywhere  from all over the world you know South  America everywhere and so it's it was a  tremendous experience but I I found  myself becoming much more confident in  who I was  um and not feeling different  um which I thought which I thought was  great yeah that's my biggest I wanted to  go to Spelman my mother said that I  wouldn't fit in because I wasn't  um you know I didn't have to look yeah  we had we have students of all shades I  know I wish I had her I wish I had such  a wonderful experience that you had yeah  to that note  um can I ask you a question what advice  would you give to the younger version of  you that is watching this episode and  feels very much alone my advice yourself  is stay the course because you turn out  awesome and that's only kind of a joke  but what I do mean by that is it's  lonely right and I often wondered like  is it is it worth it you know being this  much of a jerk about it because the fact  the matter was like I get defensive you  know and  um you know you feel very alone and you  know you're getting scraps and whatnot  as a kid and  um but it it kind of helped me be who I  am right and you own it and be proud of  it and things work out who influenced me  the most and how I was influenced was  from my grandfather not realizing and I  didn't I didn't I would tell the younger  me to tell that story to allow people to  know who I am but a lot of people didn't  know this is 1970 and my grandfather was  a butler you know working for a wealthy  family that lived in Winnetka happens to  be the family who owns Sara Lee  and that's how we end up my grandparents  ended up living in Highland Park  and my grandmother was the maid and the  and the cook you know for them and so to  to tell that story because my  grandfather was a hard worker he was  resilient and that's where I get my uh  challenge you know in order to overcome  the challenges and be resilient that's  where I get that from  and  um because I wouldn't be the person that  I am today if I wouldn't have had that  opportunity  to do that transition and move out there  to understand different cultures and in  order to go to college and look back  over my life now football didn't work  out I played in high school went out to  play at Arizona state was able to walk  on but when that didn't work out the  money wasn't there so went and joined  the army and that started my Army Career  so again it ebbed and flows and those  challenges but it all stemmed from that  structure and the stability I had with  my grandfather and I'm getting provided  that opportunity to where I am today  so I would tell that story which I did  haven't but in order to get that out  yeah  if I was to talk to my younger self I  would say you know just be truthful to  who you are don't be shy to be and show  your true colors because honestly it's a  weight lifted off your shoulders and  you don't have to worry or be concerned  anymore you just live your life and be  happy and that's what really matters I  love it I love it  yeah I do wish I had had more Pride when  I was younger I do feel like  a lot of the things  um that I've done you know I kind of  wish I had claimed them you know like as  someone who was newer to the US who has  immigrant parents  um you know I feel like  um  I I wish I felt more comfortable being  being proud of who I am like spending  more time in ethnic spaces where I might  have had more support like I wish I had  joined Affinity groups in high school I  wish I would have uh pushed harder  against my parents when they thought I  shouldn't go to an HBCU I just you know  I wish I had like sought out that  community in those kinds of spaces  earlier yeah the experiences in our  lives both good and bad have helped to  shape the adults we are today when it  comes to others it is important to know  that everything is not always what it  seems or more importantly what you  assume it to be may we all be thankful  for the ways in which our lives have  been enriched and may we all be affirmed  in our ability to overcome those  obstacles that have made us stronger  thank you to my guests for joining me  today and for sharing your stories  special thanks to the now Massage  Naperville for the work you do in our  community to promote self-care and  self-love hopefully you've been  entertained if not encouraged or  inspired I do not promise to be an  expert nor do I have all the answers I'm  just Dana being Dana see you next time  [Music]  foreign  [Music]

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[Music]  thank you  this episode of Dana being Dana is  brought to you in part by the now a  massage Boutique  [Music]  I'm Dana Michelle and I'm thrilled  you're with us my show is about all  different aspects of the human  connection things that bring us together  and living life intentionally  compassion is defined as concern and  acknowledgment for the sufferings or  Misfortune of others now we were told as  kids to never judge a book by its cover  but how often do we really do that  instead how often do we judge people on  the chapter we just happen to walk in on  one of the questions I Ask of myself and  of others is have you considered the  experiences of others that may be  different from your own  I learned that the hard way growing up  as always being different as for me I'm  originally from the North Shore namely  the Highland Park Deerfield area and I  was often assumed to be a Jewish white  woman to those who I hadn't met while my  parents choice to raise a family on the  North Shore afforded me many great  opportunities my experiences were not  always easy  joining me now are friends of mine who  have also had life experiences that  might appear easier than you think each  of us were born into situations where we  were the minority in our environments  can each of you briefly share your  circumstances  um I'm Michael I grew up in Lake Forest  but I was one of the only Jewish people  in my school  um and you know despite that I also was  a white male like half the people there  being Jewish was pretty unique despite  being on the North Shore yeah so my name  is Eddie Coleman and I am  was origin I was born and raised on the  south side of Chicago and due to the  gangs and the violence of being a  latchkey kid my mom made the best  decision an opportunity for me to move  me uh to Highland Park where my  grandparents lived and um not knowing it  then uh but that was one of the best  decisions that my mom made for me and  I'm the resident a black guy here  Anita  I grew up mostly in Washington DC area  but I was born in Brazil my mother is a  mixed race afro-latin woman my father is  a white appearing Puerto Rican man and  so I grew up all over the place I lived  in Kansas Panama and California before  we moved to the DC area when I was nine  I also spent time in New York and with  my family in other countries so  I guess I really started feeling like a  minority when I was nine and in a school  in the U.S for the first time in the DC  area but overseas and on military bases  always felt very comfortable because  those were really integrated  environments where people came from a  number of different class backgrounds so  it was it was quite an adjustment yeah  Trevor I'm Trevor Sheehan I actually  grew up in this town in Naperville so  I've been here most of my life I went  away for college but I've been here for  the most part I went to school at neuqua  so very large school there was over 5  000 kids so you kind of just tried to  fit in where you could and make friends  and I played Sports  and we both my brother and I uh we grew  up here and we went our separate ways  but we're both feeling that Minority  because we're gay and not straight yeah  fear of the unknown or differences often  leads people to make assumptions what  are some of the assumptions that people  have made about you  I mean come on everyone is there  anything you could imagine you know the  the most obvious one was I remember when  I was in college and you know I I blend  in pretty well so people don't know but  I had a landlord uh we were trying to  get a lease on an apartment and the  landlord was explaining some claws in  the lease and her explanation was that  it's so people don't Jew me down on the  rent like that's just something people  say right and I remember I was like I  had never even heard that  um but obviously knew what she meant and  uh you know the whole like cheapness  Trope it's just  you got a lot of that grown up yeah yeah  I'm sure I can agree with that one of  the assumptions I'm going being from you  know the South Side uh going  living in Highland Park but uh going to  Deerfield uh the assumption is that you  know I'm playing basketball I you know  I'm good at that and you know I'm fast  now although those did give me  opportunities to take advantage of  because of the fact I was probably  average in speed uh growing up on the  south side and moving to the north side  that it did put me above the crust of  the other people so that's an  opportunity but those assumptions were  definitely there  some of the assumptions being in college  uh just moving into and all same-sex  dorm  playing running cross country and  joining a fraternity they just you know  I'll expect you to like and do the same  things right and they don't see that  other people have other views yeah  people just really don't see that I have  an identity that's more complicated than  uh just being a white lady you know I've  thought about changing my last name  sometimes to reflect my Heritage a  little more but my parents were always  really against that they said um  you know the president there have been  presidents of Latin American countries  with the last name Washington you know  they said that that's just you know part  of who I am and you got to be uh who you  are you know not change your appearance  to signal  um your background you know just be you  do you find people looking to try to  categorize you or put you in a box right  I think sometimes with the fear  um of differences or fear of the unknown  you know it's always trying to kind of  figure you out you know I for me growing  up on the North Shore you know it's well  I don't really know you you speak well  you do this you do that you're different  than typical people of color that that  they've experienced and a lot of times  they haven't really experienced anybody  who's different and so what they are  gleaning from is is Media or assumptions  um or or you know conjecture about  what they assume about other people so  um what's some of the what are some of  the stereotypes that you've encountered  again I'm more than happy to start this  off yeah come on Michael I'm very shy  ordinarily I swear um  you know the it was funny because when I  was growing up again you know there were  not a lot of Jewish they're not a lot of  Jewish people in the Lake Forest area  right it's very waspy  um I didn't buy salmon pants but you  know that's not the only reason I didn't  fit in and I remember I'd have  sleepovers when I was a little kid uh  you know at friends houses and there  were there's always those kids whose  parents would drag you to church with  them on Sunday and I remember it was so  bizarre because someone like are you  allowed to come with us is this okay  like I'm not gonna catch fire you know  it's like all right right this is fine  and it was funny there's almost like  this  um like an overdoing of it you know and  to be like no no we're okay with it you  know like there's something to be okay  with and it was just so bizarre some of  the interactions I had  um you know is there stuff here you can  eat and you know all of that and so  it was I guess what you're you know to  what you're you're asking is sort of  like yeah everyone assumes that you know  Jewish people are a certain way and like  they don't like you know Protestants or  Christians or whatever and they eat  weird and all this bizarre stuff that is  completely foreign to me frankly you  know I didn't even start learning about  most of that until I was much older  that's true it's true I think we've come  a long way oh yeah in terms of  acceptance of of differences and people  being different  um yeah Eddie tell us about your prom  King experience at Deerfield High School  so the prom King at Deerfield high  school has traditionally been  that number one jock sports athletic  person with the number one female as far  as most likely cheerleading and uh and  so when I came up you know this is now  the 80s and the population of the school  was kind of tired of that so they wanted  to change that perspective and so uh I  did play on the football team  but this was the first year that they  decided that the candidates that were  running for pom king and queen didn't  have to be a couple like it was an  individual male and in an individual  female  and so I got peer pressured into running  for prom King uh not thinking anything  of it I've never been political so I  didn't I didn't I didn't campaign  Girls run a little differently I guess  but I didn't I didn't come yeah I didn't  campaign you know campaign about it or  anything so as as it went along you know  I did hear that I was getting some votes  and everything but when the event came  up for the actual prom event  I'm at the party I'm at the prom and I'm  ready for the after party so I'm  basically at the back of the cafeteria  like at the door ready to leave and they  have to announce this and so they  actually announced the prom queen is my  high school sweetheart  and I'm just like wow okay that that's  interesting but you know it still could  be a different male uh that wins and she  was a black female and she's a black  she's a black female  um and so I was like wow so they crowned  her with the prom queen and everything  and I'm still sitting there like wow  it's going to take a little bit longer  but let's get this over with and they  say for the prom King they announced me  as the prom King uh taken back taken by  surprise and everything and I was like  wow so I had to walk all the way from  the back of the cafeteria up on the  stage didn't get anything you know  flowers or a crown or nothing but the  interesting fact from all of that is the  next day in the paper it's always  printed on the front page of the  newspaper that picture of Deerfield High  School's Prime king and queen of the  event  and there was no picture of us there was  just that title you know that that  paragraph in the in the paper so they  reported the story but they didn't post  they did a picture they didn't post the  picture they just put our names  interesting and so uh my high school  Sweetheart's parents was really upset  they call it called the newspaper  station and everything and it was a big  protest about that because we were like  wow it's kind of flooring yeah that that  idea did they have an excuse and they  cameras were broken yeah they came they  came up with some excuse they didn't  capture the event or anything but it was  a Reclamation like that Friday of that  week that our picture was put in the  paper but it's buried probably in the  middle of the newspaper so the protests  worked it did work because they had to  go back and re and restate and take the  photo and put it in the paper but at  that point it was a lost lost event and  I'm thinking this is 1988 and it was  still obvious but also shows yourself  how some of those fears  some of that unknown you know can really  just kind of tarnish or torpedo  otherwise awesome events opportunities  inclusive moments yes we're going to  continue the discussion and talking  about differences we're going to take a  quick break don't go away we'll be right  back  [Music]  we all have a story to share stories  others can relate to whether moments of  sorrow or of Hope and inspiration  whether a story of struggle or a moment  of Victory every little moment captured  and shared helps us to feel more  informed helps us to feel more engaged  with and connected to the community we  all call home every little moment  captured and shared adds up to something  greater for us that something is the  collective story of Naperville a city  rich in its volunteer Spirit its  diversity its traditions and  celebrations and so much more in  Naperville there are so many stories  worth sharing and for the past 35 years  it's been our honor to tell those  stories and share them with you  [Music]  foreign this episode of Dana being Dana  is brought to you in part by the now a  massage Boutique  [Music]  welcome back to Dana B and Dina where we  are talking about differences we talked  about high school going into the break  and college can be a game changer and an  opportunity to start over or really be  who you are what was that like within  the context of our discussion so the  transition from high school to college  again I it was set up for success in  that transition due to the fact uh being  from again from the south side of  Chicago and going to Deerfield High  School I think the opportunities that it  afforded me with culture with the  culture and based everything on what I  went through that transition and I  transitioned to Arizona state with the  population is a lot more but in the  culture aspect of it it was still the  same and so I was able to  again transition easily more than some  of my friends that grew up you know in  Detroit Michigan again also being from  Chicago and where they're in college and  and as difficult as it is just being  there but in blending in yeah and I  think that gave me a leg up from my  experiences that what I went through and  what I came through uh being there and I  actually excelled in that environment  versus them and unfortunately some of  them you know not finishing and having  to go home just because they couldn't  associate or blend in in that  environment  and where you voted from King of Arizona  no not and out of theirs on the stage  yeah  but I have to imagine it's a similar  story like you know for you because like  in me when you go to college it's such a  bigger Pond right and you know I for the  first time there's a bunch of like Long  Island Jews that showed up and I was  like oh my God you know there's like a  lot of uh other people that are exactly  like this and I think it's just because  there were so many more people around  that it just stopped being as big of a  deal  College can really be a breath of fresh  air  um I coming from the North Shore I went  to a historically black college Spelman  College uh where I was one of instead of  being the only black female I was one of  250  um black black women or 500 women and it  was an incredible experience it can be  very affirming and and empowering to  just find that there are other people  two things one more people who look like  you  um or more people who are just more  accepting of you uh being in in a  homogenous environment or Suburbia in  many ways has so many benefits but it  can also be  um  very limiting in terms of mindset and  even sometimes even opportunities  um so so College can be a great thing  what about you two College was amazing I  went to Western Illinois University and  I would do it all over again I mean then  it was thriving there were so many  uh and the enrollment was so high you  know now it's not as much but I mean I  got to meet so many good people there I  got to find people that were more like  me  um I got to do more things feel more  alive kind of box out a little bit so it  just felt like a whole new beginning for  myself so my college was very different  from my high school I went to a pretty  small high school there were about  um well it's small now like probably not  when you went but um  I went to high school about 400 people  per class and so I really knew everybody  and then I went to a commuter School in  Portland Oregon it was a big Urban  campus at Portland State University and  it was very different it was kind of um  you didn't really get to know people  because it was a lot of uh you know  part-time students so they're just you  know that wasn't really um my experience  you know my experience wasn't of having  you know my social life or professional  life revolve around college so  um I worked part-time for most of my  degree program had a lot of different  experiences  um and I guess that was where I started  to see myself as a person of color like  in high school I had always been told  you know that I was a white person you  know I think  um you asked earlier about assumptions  people make and I think a lot of people  do assume that people from Latin America  look a certain way  um I guess especially in places where  there's been a lot of immigration from a  certain country you know people expect  there to be a certain look so I think  um  on the East Coast people didn't really  think that I was Latin and I certainly  never talked about uh you know my my  racial background because  um I actually went to a selective High  School where you had to take an  admissions test and they had had to make  some changes following some affirmative  action lawsuits  um before I was admitted so by the time  I got there they had tried to tweak the  process a few different ways and there  just weren't that many diverse Latin or  black students in my class so when  people found out that I was Latin they  would think that I had somehow tried to  game the system and getting in there or  played the race card so it was something  you know that I didn't really Embrace in  high school and  um growing up in the DC area which is  very Cosmopolitan a lot like Chicago you  know where people where there's like a  range of how people look you know you  don't experience day-to-day racism in  the same way but when I moved to Oregon  which has like a long history of um  because you know what I would call  structural racism you know actually  pushing uh bulldozing black  neighborhoods through over in renewal  you know when I got into that  environment like there was a lot less  diversity in the like people that you  saw there so I do think that people knew  that I was a person of color and I think  you know part of that  um I wish that Michael's wife were here  today because it's my thought I probably  got her sick yeah because uh she Michael  is married to a Native American woman  and that was my first time being in  college meeting native people and um you  know the people that I met these are  people who on the East Coast are in a  big city you might think we're white but  when you get into a homogeneous place it  becomes clear when someone's different  when I was younger my hair was it was  curlier I hadn't dyed it blonde so I  didn't fit in like visually it to the to  the look of these P you know people who  lived in and were from the Pacific  Northwest so I do think that I  experienced like socially you know  people could tell that I wasn't from  there that I didn't fit in or that I was  different so that was kind of where I  started to identify more as a person of  color and I think that I started to have  some Consciousness around that as an  identity whereas before I was like  discouraged or like you know from  identifying with that because I didn't  feel that I'd personally experienced any  racism or you know I felt that I would  have negative social consequences for  being seen as like race faking or you  know playing up you know my Latin  background where it didn't really exist  even though it did you know I grew up  speaking Portuguese uh with my parents  and um my family so you know I learned  Spanish and English at the same time in  school but used Spanish a lot more in my  day-to-day life so I want to talk about  um the adult experience because we've  talked about high school we've talked  about college as an adult what  experiences have had the most influence  on you today I think a lot of the  experiences that we've had you know  being different  um living in that particularly in our  formative years of being teens and in  college have really had an influence as  as to not only who we are today but also  how we relate to others  um and our compassion you know for one  another how have your experiences  influenced who you are I'm actually  going to answer for my wife in absentia  yes it's so hilarious to me she gets all  the time what are you yep  and I'm just like who asks that you know  everyone's like Egyptian Greek like no  one can figure it out but like I can't  imagine being asked that question as  like a grown person  um and my daughter looks the poor kid  like me and in school she gets the same  stuff you're dealing with so I can only  imagine when she gets grown up she can  have similar experiences yeah I mean and  for me you know it was always sort of  the The Counter Culture thing that you  know I always was trying to be different  you know sort of to highlight things and  that's how I am now my professional life  you know that and I'm like the anti-jew  when it comes to have the tattoos all  over the place and I you know love bacon  and but I still hold it very strongly as  part of my identity and Heritage right  and  um it's not mutually exclusive but I  think a lot of that came from  being so proud of it growing up because  I was surrounded by people who you know  weren't accustomed to it and that  feeling of being different I think is is  really something that came out of it I  am surprised to hear you say that about  people not asking you what are you  because I have a friend who's um  who she looks really really Eastern  European and she gets it all the time  maybe people don't do it to you because  you're a guy but it's entirely important  everyone assumes white man well I think  that's because he's an X-Men but she has  she has like a more obviously like  Eastern European name too like I think  Captain is a little more like people  wonder what that is I got a lot of  questions about what kind of name is  that and I know they're thinking Jew or  not a Jew  um but no I do get what my name is but  no one ever asks my ethnicity because  they're always just like these are their  Anglo-Saxon or Eastern European like  those are really the only options  um but yeah my my poor kids like one of  my my sons looks like my wife and then  my daughter looks like me and then the  one in the middle or the youngest rather  just looks like a mix so he's gonna have  fun time too so now that I'm wearing a  ring I always get asked you know oh  where's your wife or your fiance and you  know I tell them like I have a fiance  and I'm getting married to him in  December in Costa Rica which we're very  excited about but  um I get that all the time and then  people are shocked when they hear that  it's a male and not a female yeah they  don't know how to really react with it  because they feel uncomfortable and I'm  like it's okay you know like this is who  I am this is what I want to be and be  with and I'm very happy and that's what  matters yeah do you think that  because I I think there's a lot of  people out there who spend a lifetime  trying to assimilate fit in right  um you know and I think that started in  as kids do you feel  because in some ways you know you may  obviously be different right you're  holding hands with your fiance your skin  color you know sometimes we look  different and not always but do you  think that it has created  um a certain level of confidence  and comfort you know where you might  have felt you know either anxious or  alone growing up but uh people tell me  all the time you seem so confident in  all these things but I've always been  alone right I've always been different  and so being used to that as an adult  um  do you think that has been shaped by by  your experiences oh 100 when Cody and I  first started dating we did I didn't  want to hold his hand I thought  everybody was looking at me and judging  me and everything like that and then I  just grew to accept it and love it and  now it doesn't bother me at all yeah  which is so liberating I think it's I  think it's great you know and and part  of this episode you know what I want to  get across to people is to be confident  in who you are and and love yourself and  be okay with that because I think  there's so many societal pressures to to  try to be different or to resent or hide  or  act differently than who you really are  I'm gonna ask you a question did you  feel different or out of place at  Spelman  no  um it's funny because it's kind of the  opposite I think everybody comes to  to Spelman in particular I call it the  Superstar syndrome where everybody was  prom queen and valedictorian and highly  successful it felt nice to be in a place  where I was not the only but  um the assumption is that everybody's  the same but you have people who are  from International students so being  black doesn't just mean black American  you know black can be from everywhere  from all over the world you know South  America everywhere and so it's it was a  tremendous experience but I I found  myself becoming much more confident in  who I was  um and not feeling different  um which I thought which I thought was  great yeah that's my biggest I wanted to  go to Spelman my mother said that I  wouldn't fit in because I wasn't  um you know I didn't have to look yeah  we had we have students of all shades I  know I wish I had her I wish I had such  a wonderful experience that you had yeah  to that note  um can I ask you a question what advice  would you give to the younger version of  you that is watching this episode and  feels very much alone my advice yourself  is stay the course because you turn out  awesome and that's only kind of a joke  but what I do mean by that is it's  lonely right and I often wondered like  is it is it worth it you know being this  much of a jerk about it because the fact  the matter was like I get defensive you  know and  um you know you feel very alone and you  know you're getting scraps and whatnot  as a kid and  um but it it kind of helped me be who I  am right and you own it and be proud of  it and things work out who influenced me  the most and how I was influenced was  from my grandfather not realizing and I  didn't I didn't I would tell the younger  me to tell that story to allow people to  know who I am but a lot of people didn't  know this is 1970 and my grandfather was  a butler you know working for a wealthy  family that lived in Winnetka happens to  be the family who owns Sara Lee  and that's how we end up my grandparents  ended up living in Highland Park  and my grandmother was the maid and the  and the cook you know for them and so to  to tell that story because my  grandfather was a hard worker he was  resilient and that's where I get my uh  challenge you know in order to overcome  the challenges and be resilient that's  where I get that from  and  um because I wouldn't be the person that  I am today if I wouldn't have had that  opportunity  to do that transition and move out there  to understand different cultures and in  order to go to college and look back  over my life now football didn't work  out I played in high school went out to  play at Arizona state was able to walk  on but when that didn't work out the  money wasn't there so went and joined  the army and that started my Army Career  so again it ebbed and flows and those  challenges but it all stemmed from that  structure and the stability I had with  my grandfather and I'm getting provided  that opportunity to where I am today  so I would tell that story which I did  haven't but in order to get that out  yeah  if I was to talk to my younger self I  would say you know just be truthful to  who you are don't be shy to be and show  your true colors because honestly it's a  weight lifted off your shoulders and  you don't have to worry or be concerned  anymore you just live your life and be  happy and that's what really matters I  love it I love it  yeah I do wish I had had more Pride when  I was younger I do feel like  a lot of the things  um that I've done you know I kind of  wish I had claimed them you know like as  someone who was newer to the US who has  immigrant parents  um you know I feel like  um  I I wish I felt more comfortable being  being proud of who I am like spending  more time in ethnic spaces where I might  have had more support like I wish I had  joined Affinity groups in high school I  wish I would have uh pushed harder  against my parents when they thought I  shouldn't go to an HBCU I just you know  I wish I had like sought out that  community in those kinds of spaces  earlier yeah the experiences in our  lives both good and bad have helped to  shape the adults we are today when it  comes to others it is important to know  that everything is not always what it  seems or more importantly what you  assume it to be may we all be thankful  for the ways in which our lives have  been enriched and may we all be affirmed  in our ability to overcome those  obstacles that have made us stronger  thank you to my guests for joining me  today and for sharing your stories  special thanks to the now Massage  Naperville for the work you do in our  community to promote self-care and  self-love hopefully you've been  entertained if not encouraged or  inspired I do not promise to be an  expert nor do I have all the answers I'm  just Dana being Dana see you next time  [Music]  foreign  [Music]
 

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